I am replacing my factory 1987 bmw front speakers with Polk EX 3550 component separates. The 3-series had the mids in the kick panel ahead of the door and tweeters in little plastic pods at the front of the window in the door. There really isn't much place to mount a tweeter under that dash to keep it close to the mid and the factory tweet pods are a good 18" from the mids. Can I use the convenience of the factory tweet pods and still somehow get decent sound, or should I suck it up and put the new tweets down low and risk kicking them every day?
Replies (5)
uochronos on 12/10/2003 23:51:46
If the factory tweets are in the uper part of the door by the window why is this bad? i have my tweeters mounted up by my winshield on the pannels around 3 feet from my mid/bass 6.5s and they sound 10times better then when the tweeters where down by the mid... and from what i understand you want your tweets to be as close to ear level and as close to either pointed at you or reflecting at you as possible.
curtis73 on 12/11/2003 00:15:24
You're right about the ear level thing, but in a car there are other issues. The reason for putting them close to each other is twofold. 1) keeping them as far away from your ears as possible makes the difference in distance to each one less of an issue, and 2) Keeping them as close as possible to each other within reason helps make a better soundstage from a crossover/frequency production point of view. Otherwise the in between frequencies get lost making the tweets more "screamy." Putting them up in the windows in a tiny 3-series cabin makes them really unbalanced and painful. I had separates in the 96 Impala SS with a huge cabin and despite my best efforts I couldn't get the imaging or soundstage right unless the tweets were down on the kick panels beside the mids. In that huge cabin (believe it or not) the soundstage was higher to the virtual ear with the tweets down low. When they were up high in the door, it just sounded like there were two individual cymbals yelling in my ear.
I lack the finer points on this one, but I was wondering if someone had an idea to keep the door mount tweets but combat the problems normally associated with large distances.
uochronos on 12/11/2003 02:07:57
Ahh i hadnt quite heard it that way before but i can see why in a small space that could be a problem although i'm not familar with it... you could try directing them to reflect off the windshield i have heard many people here talking about this takes a bit of the edge off the tweeter and makes them seem a bit farther away. have you thought of trying that? you could also try and just tone down the tweets mine has an adjustable jumper in the crossover i made the tweets down -1 and they sound alot smoother now just because they are only about 3-4 feet from my head... i also pointed the passenger side one at the driver and the driver side one at the passenger so the tweets have more of a distance to who they are pointing at this made them sound better then when they where pointed more at the closest person.
also i had never heard of losing some of the inbetween frequencies before when they where far apart if you or anyone else for that matter knows some more specifics on that i would be very interested in knowing more. i always assumed from what i had read you just wanted to keep the sound waves all going about the same angles. so they dont distort each other.
curtis73 on 12/11/2003 12:50:46
I never really got a scientific reason. I always thought that if you're supposed to put them close together, then why get component seps in the first place, right? But I did alot of using my ear (which I think is pretty good as a musician) and I agreed with the recommendation to put them close together, but I've never dealt with the math reasons why it works. I assume it has to do with the way the sound waves meet in the air. Kinda like two boat wakes in the water, when they meet their new frequency is different than either of the originals. It might also be that it just sounds like you lose some of the mids since your ear is hearing two different sources and can't combine them the same way
I like your idea to attenuate the tweets. Maybe I can put some kind of inline potentiometer or use a more selective EQ that would limit signal to the tweets. Maybe there's a way to bust open the crossover that comes with them and have an electronically-minded friend modify it.
uochronos on 12/11/2003 13:21:01
Most crossovers open up and yes you can modify them hell its not that incredibly difficult to build your own crossover if you find someone that knows alot about that stuff. like i said i opened mine up and it had jumpers which i set the tweets to -1db to take some of the edge off.
It makes since them meeting in air and distorting each other thats why i said i had heard you should always keep the waves dircted with each other not into each other. Also have you tried silk tweets? the guys here talked me into it. they said i might lose some high end in heavy rock songs but i dont notice any really. i had always had titanium and it was alot harsher on my ears especialy at high volume.
Replies (5)
uochronos on 12/10/2003 23:51:46
If the factory tweets are in the uper part of the door by the window why is this bad? i have my tweeters mounted up by my winshield on the pannels around 3 feet from my mid/bass 6.5s and they sound 10times better then when the tweeters where down by the mid... and from what i understand you want your tweets to be as close to ear level and as close to either pointed at you or reflecting at you as possible.
curtis73 on 12/11/2003 00:15:24
You're right about the ear level thing, but in a car there are other issues. The reason for putting them close to each other is twofold. 1) keeping them as far away from your ears as possible makes the difference in distance to each one less of an issue, and 2) Keeping them as close as possible to each other within reason helps make a better soundstage from a crossover/frequency production point of view. Otherwise the in between frequencies get lost making the tweets more "screamy." Putting them up in the windows in a tiny 3-series cabin makes them really unbalanced and painful. I had separates in the 96 Impala SS with a huge cabin and despite my best efforts I couldn't get the imaging or soundstage right unless the tweets were down on the kick panels beside the mids. In that huge cabin (believe it or not) the soundstage was higher to the virtual ear with the tweets down low. When they were up high in the door, it just sounded like there were two individual cymbals yelling in my ear.
I lack the finer points on this one, but I was wondering if someone had an idea to keep the door mount tweets but combat the problems normally associated with large distances.
uochronos on 12/11/2003 02:07:57
Ahh i hadnt quite heard it that way before but i can see why in a small space that could be a problem although i'm not familar with it... you could try directing them to reflect off the windshield i have heard many people here talking about this takes a bit of the edge off the tweeter and makes them seem a bit farther away. have you thought of trying that? you could also try and just tone down the tweets mine has an adjustable jumper in the crossover i made the tweets down -1 and they sound alot smoother now just because they are only about 3-4 feet from my head... i also pointed the passenger side one at the driver and the driver side one at the passenger so the tweets have more of a distance to who they are pointing at this made them sound better then when they where pointed more at the closest person.
also i had never heard of losing some of the inbetween frequencies before when they where far apart if you or anyone else for that matter knows some more specifics on that i would be very interested in knowing more. i always assumed from what i had read you just wanted to keep the sound waves all going about the same angles. so they dont distort each other.
curtis73 on 12/11/2003 12:50:46
I never really got a scientific reason. I always thought that if you're supposed to put them close together, then why get component seps in the first place, right? But I did alot of using my ear (which I think is pretty good as a musician) and I agreed with the recommendation to put them close together, but I've never dealt with the math reasons why it works. I assume it has to do with the way the sound waves meet in the air. Kinda like two boat wakes in the water, when they meet their new frequency is different than either of the originals. It might also be that it just sounds like you lose some of the mids since your ear is hearing two different sources and can't combine them the same way
I like your idea to attenuate the tweets. Maybe I can put some kind of inline potentiometer or use a more selective EQ that would limit signal to the tweets. Maybe there's a way to bust open the crossover that comes with them and have an electronically-minded friend modify it.
uochronos on 12/11/2003 13:21:01
Most crossovers open up and yes you can modify them hell its not that incredibly difficult to build your own crossover if you find someone that knows alot about that stuff. like i said i opened mine up and it had jumpers which i set the tweets to -1db to take some of the edge off.
It makes since them meeting in air and distorting each other thats why i said i had heard you should always keep the waves dircted with each other not into each other. Also have you tried silk tweets? the guys here talked me into it. they said i might lose some high end in heavy rock songs but i dont notice any really. i had always had titanium and it was alot harsher on my ears especialy at high volume.
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