Ok, I'm starting to try to comprehend what all the numbers mean with drivers and how to come up with what numbers are good and bad. So far I just have a ton more questions.
I'm good with Amplifier numbers and what they mean. I know how to use parallel/series to modify ohm load, etc. The basics I've known for a while. I have my cars systems pretty much where I want them, but I would like to add a 12" sealed sub to one of my cars and a couple 10" sealed to another. I like tight punchy stuff and listen to alot of folk, classic rock, and jazz. In the search for the most bang for buck, here are the issues: Let's say that I buy a DVC sub at 2ohms per coil. Using a 2 channel amp (we'll assume 1-ohm stable) I can get anywhere from 1 to 8 ohms load depending on how its wired/bridged.
Since they're rated at different wattages for different loads, will how they're hooked up make a huge difference? How?
Is my goal to choose the lowest stable load to get the most wattage? Or does a high load use the lower wattage more efficiently making it more of an equal comparison?
Let's make one more hypothetical situation. (please forgive my imaginary numbers, I might be way off) Let's assume (theroetically) that two subs offer similar numbers and qualities, but one is a big magnet sub with a sensitivity of 85dB and RMS of 300w, and another has a smaller magnet, sens at 92db, and RMS of 200w. Assuming that they get equal SPLs running at their RMS, does one offer an advantage over the other besides cost to purchase?
Does the tighter suspension of the big magnet offer an advantage, or does the less expensive efficient sub get the nod for bang for buck?
Which offers the better sound?
What numbers can I look at in the specs that will tell me which sub offers the target sound I want? Are their numbers that will tell me that sub A will give me accurate bass at my desired SPL but sub B will be a little loose at that SPL?
I know that's a lot of questions, but I'm trying to get a grip on what I should be looking for without just asking what someone else has done. I've had several subs including a couple 12s in ported boxes, single 10 in a sealed box, dual 10s sealed, and they've all been the smaller magnet "economy" subs from good-ish names like Audiobahn, Eclipse, and JL. I usually run them right at RMS and I've been somewhat satisfied, but to get the SPL of bass I like I have to sometimes push the signal to the point where its no longer accurate and a little muddy. I want there to be more SPL available than I need so I'm never pushing it, but I'm definitely a 75%SQ/25%SPL person. Should I be looking at the low-efficiency more expensive drivers and run them with lotsa watts, or ... something else...? Nothing is more frustrating than being in the middle of a Janis Joplin tune and having it distort when the bass solo comes in.
Replies (4)
cplkittle on 12/10/2003 17:55:23
> Let's say that I buy a DVC sub at 2ohms per coil. Using a 2 channel amp (we'll assume 1-ohm stable) I can get anywhere from 1 to 8 ohms load depending on how its wired/bridged.
-You can get 1-4 ohms series gives you 2+2, parallel gives you 2/2.
-Higher spl is better
-Heavier magnets do help produce tighter, more controlled bass, and as a result of having a heavier magnet, you need higher watts to controll the cone movement.
-Matching the ohms of a speaker to the ohms of an amp gives you max output of the amp. 4ohm load on a 2ohm amp gives you half the power of the amp, whereas a 2 ohm load on a 4 ohm amp will damage the amplifier. Higher ohms=less THD (total harmonic distortion) Lower ohms=higher power.
Boxes have a big impact on the sound as well. A high quality 10' subwoofer in a small (~.75^ft) box should give you a very tight, accurate sound and at the same time produce a significant amount of SPL.
I do not know all the ins and outs, as I am still learning myself. The best thing to do is just keep reading on the internet. And keep asking questions. There are alot of very intelligent people here that can help you out.
Relax_The_Mind on 12/11/2003 13:14:07
I may have to differ a bit on this, but high sound quality for tight punchy bass id more preffered to the hard hitting high SPL setups. A setup that has higher sound quality can sound louder that an spl setup.
As for boxes, yers i agree that they are a huge part of how your speakers will sound. The exact dimensions of the boxes range from small to large depending on the individual speaker. (there is no one formula). And as cplkittle said sealed boxes are good for tight accurate bass.
When it comes down to reading numbers on speakers, they do not directly relate on real world sound quality and performance. There is no real standard for measurements that every audio company uses so it can be very misleading. Bigger magnets also do not directly relate to performance as ive seen many speakers with the biggest magnets make me laugh and subs with relatively small magnets pretty much impress me.
I would listen more to reviews on car audio and start getting a feel of what budget and brands you want.
RTM
curtis73 on 12/11/2003 14:43:01
Wise words, all. RTM, is there a good resource for reviews? I don't subscribe to any audio mags, but if I knew which one(s) to get I can start reading. My main interests are super-high quality car audio (and occasionally SPL, but not without SQ), never car video, and occasionally home theater. Any mag ideas?
cplkittle on 12/11/2003 15:00:54
Higher spl is better
sorry about that, I meant db sensitivity rating. nice catch, RTM.
you are right about the sq thing.
For reviews or comparisons, I am constantly trying to find charts, graphs, opinions. The best suggestion I can give is to apply for a free crutchfield catalogue. Before every section (HU, amps, speakers) They have a 'What to look for' page, which explains all of the characteristics and what they mean, then they have a chart comparing all of them.
Alot of the online reviews are from first time buyers, you will hardly ever find audiophiles leaving reviews on products.. not to say they don't, they are just rare.
I'm good with Amplifier numbers and what they mean. I know how to use parallel/series to modify ohm load, etc. The basics I've known for a while. I have my cars systems pretty much where I want them, but I would like to add a 12" sealed sub to one of my cars and a couple 10" sealed to another. I like tight punchy stuff and listen to alot of folk, classic rock, and jazz. In the search for the most bang for buck, here are the issues: Let's say that I buy a DVC sub at 2ohms per coil. Using a 2 channel amp (we'll assume 1-ohm stable) I can get anywhere from 1 to 8 ohms load depending on how its wired/bridged.
Since they're rated at different wattages for different loads, will how they're hooked up make a huge difference? How?
Is my goal to choose the lowest stable load to get the most wattage? Or does a high load use the lower wattage more efficiently making it more of an equal comparison?
Let's make one more hypothetical situation. (please forgive my imaginary numbers, I might be way off) Let's assume (theroetically) that two subs offer similar numbers and qualities, but one is a big magnet sub with a sensitivity of 85dB and RMS of 300w, and another has a smaller magnet, sens at 92db, and RMS of 200w. Assuming that they get equal SPLs running at their RMS, does one offer an advantage over the other besides cost to purchase?
Does the tighter suspension of the big magnet offer an advantage, or does the less expensive efficient sub get the nod for bang for buck?
Which offers the better sound?
What numbers can I look at in the specs that will tell me which sub offers the target sound I want? Are their numbers that will tell me that sub A will give me accurate bass at my desired SPL but sub B will be a little loose at that SPL?
I know that's a lot of questions, but I'm trying to get a grip on what I should be looking for without just asking what someone else has done. I've had several subs including a couple 12s in ported boxes, single 10 in a sealed box, dual 10s sealed, and they've all been the smaller magnet "economy" subs from good-ish names like Audiobahn, Eclipse, and JL. I usually run them right at RMS and I've been somewhat satisfied, but to get the SPL of bass I like I have to sometimes push the signal to the point where its no longer accurate and a little muddy. I want there to be more SPL available than I need so I'm never pushing it, but I'm definitely a 75%SQ/25%SPL person. Should I be looking at the low-efficiency more expensive drivers and run them with lotsa watts, or ... something else...? Nothing is more frustrating than being in the middle of a Janis Joplin tune and having it distort when the bass solo comes in.
Replies (4)
cplkittle on 12/10/2003 17:55:23
> Let's say that I buy a DVC sub at 2ohms per coil. Using a 2 channel amp (we'll assume 1-ohm stable) I can get anywhere from 1 to 8 ohms load depending on how its wired/bridged.
-You can get 1-4 ohms series gives you 2+2, parallel gives you 2/2.
-Higher spl is better
-Heavier magnets do help produce tighter, more controlled bass, and as a result of having a heavier magnet, you need higher watts to controll the cone movement.
-Matching the ohms of a speaker to the ohms of an amp gives you max output of the amp. 4ohm load on a 2ohm amp gives you half the power of the amp, whereas a 2 ohm load on a 4 ohm amp will damage the amplifier. Higher ohms=less THD (total harmonic distortion) Lower ohms=higher power.
Boxes have a big impact on the sound as well. A high quality 10' subwoofer in a small (~.75^ft) box should give you a very tight, accurate sound and at the same time produce a significant amount of SPL.
I do not know all the ins and outs, as I am still learning myself. The best thing to do is just keep reading on the internet. And keep asking questions. There are alot of very intelligent people here that can help you out.
Relax_The_Mind on 12/11/2003 13:14:07
I may have to differ a bit on this, but high sound quality for tight punchy bass id more preffered to the hard hitting high SPL setups. A setup that has higher sound quality can sound louder that an spl setup.
As for boxes, yers i agree that they are a huge part of how your speakers will sound. The exact dimensions of the boxes range from small to large depending on the individual speaker. (there is no one formula). And as cplkittle said sealed boxes are good for tight accurate bass.
When it comes down to reading numbers on speakers, they do not directly relate on real world sound quality and performance. There is no real standard for measurements that every audio company uses so it can be very misleading. Bigger magnets also do not directly relate to performance as ive seen many speakers with the biggest magnets make me laugh and subs with relatively small magnets pretty much impress me.
I would listen more to reviews on car audio and start getting a feel of what budget and brands you want.
RTM
curtis73 on 12/11/2003 14:43:01
Wise words, all. RTM, is there a good resource for reviews? I don't subscribe to any audio mags, but if I knew which one(s) to get I can start reading. My main interests are super-high quality car audio (and occasionally SPL, but not without SQ), never car video, and occasionally home theater. Any mag ideas?
cplkittle on 12/11/2003 15:00:54
Higher spl is better
sorry about that, I meant db sensitivity rating. nice catch, RTM.
you are right about the sq thing.
For reviews or comparisons, I am constantly trying to find charts, graphs, opinions. The best suggestion I can give is to apply for a free crutchfield catalogue. Before every section (HU, amps, speakers) They have a 'What to look for' page, which explains all of the characteristics and what they mean, then they have a chart comparing all of them.
Alot of the online reviews are from first time buyers, you will hardly ever find audiophiles leaving reviews on products.. not to say they don't, they are just rare.
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