I am going to redo my system for a SQL setup. I sold all but one of my Alpine type R 12vs. Replaced them with three JL 10w3v2's. Already built a box to hold two of them that will go under the rear seat. (had to do a 3/4" lift on the rear seat) Very similar to a Jl stealth box. Sounds great. I want to build a cutom box to replace the center console. I know JL makes a stealth box that I could pop in and be done with the whole thing but I have a Kicker 600.4 mounted under the console and there is no room for the speaker with Jl's stealth box. The two 10's under the rear seat are running off of a HiFonics Z1000D @ 1ohm. Dual 4 ohm voice coils. May be slightly under powering them but they sound real good. Not much diff from the 4 12vs. I have another Z1000D that I want to put on the third 10. This last 10 is dual 2 ohm vc and I intend to run it at 1 ohm as well. Will have to upgrade my alt for sure though. The two 10's in the rear are in a sealed box. I would like to build a ported box using JL's plans that came with the sub. Now, should I keep all three in seald boxes? Would there be any advantage to mixing seald and ported boxes? Or am I way off on this?
I do have one of the Type R subs left. Local sound shop said I should not mix diff sub sizes. Could I put the third Jl and this Type R in a sealed box in the center console. I do have the room to get the 1.25 cuft for 1 ported 10 or (just a thought on this, the 10 and 12 in the same sealed box) All of this will be controlled from a Pioneer DEH-P8500MP.
I will be putting a X-Box in this console with a DVD and monitor combo overhead of the console as well as a visor monitor for the pass side.
Sorry so long but I am going all out on this one. If I did not mention it this will be for a 2002 - 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 V-10 (will have to check the alt on this unless anybody knows)
Thanks
Replies (9)
cplkittle on 12/10/2003 09:05:40
I have never heard mixed sized subs sound bad, only better. Two 10s in a sealed box and one ported would be ideal in my opinion.
I have 2 12s in a bandpass, and am going to add either 2 8s or 2 10s sealed for punch. I am happy with my low end, but I need more articulation, more precision. I have no clue why you wouldn't mix sub sizes. several years ago they also believed you should go with all one brand HU to subs and everything inbetween.
I know the 1500 comes with a 117amp alt and a 600cca battery, there is a heavy duty package with upgraded alt and battery, 136amp/750cca. what package do you have? ie heated seats, heated mirrors, and or heavy duty upgrade.
2 1000w amps and a 600w amp will pull over 200 amps max. If the truck calls for a 117amp alt (factory), I would definitely consider upgrading. I can't find many 300+ alts online, can anyone else jump in here? The battery should be find if you can find an alt around 300amps don't konw if they make them that big or not.
uochronos on 12/10/2003 12:20:14
I have never heard of differnt size subs sounding bad either. i personaly also like hwo ti sound with 10"s and 12"s together.... if you cant find a 300amp alt anywhere which i'm pretty sure you probaly can eventualy online. I have a friend who dad owns a custom alternator shop here in sunny portland. they have dones several alternators for big sound system cars. they have even hooked up the electrical system for some cars for phoenix gold. so i'm sure if i got you the shops info they could whip somthing up for you.
quad12vs on 12/16/2003 07:35:48
sorry for the long wait. I finally got the custom center console built. I put the 12 firing down and the 10 firing toward the rear of the cab. Initally i divided the box giving each sub around .6cuft. Did not sound very good. Took the dvider out and thats got both subs in a ~1.25 cuft box. Sound pretty good. Sarting to tell the diff wthout the 4 12vs pounding. May have to change the sub arrangement again to get the center box sounding better. Will do for now. Any suggestions on this?
Next problem, I want to use my NEC Syncmaster 172n as a monitor for the rear pass. (kids) I will be hooking this up to a x-box. Going to get this working in the house first (hopefully) then put it in the truck. Should be just a matter of getting the right power inverter after that. Then the alt. I am looking for an adaptor of some sort to do this. Need to go from S-Video to RS232. I have found a USB to RS232 adaptor so I could use a s-video to USB or composit to USB and get there also. Is it poss to get this working or do I need to dish out the bucks and get a regular car monitor. How would the wirless head phones work with this setup? I would like to set it up so when they are playing game they could use the headphones and when they pop a movie in I can run it through the stereo through the AUX input. Will be putting in a visor monitor on the pass side up front for the wife :) I will be doing all of the installation from now on. I got screwed over major on the last install in this vehicle. Hopefully I can the a new Kicker 600.4 (like I paid for) they sold and installed a piece of junk and they knew it. Wont go into that though. Thanks
cplkittle on 12/16/2003 11:57:05
Don't know much about the video part, but am kinda worried about the 2 different size subs in the same box. If one is more powerful than the other, there could be some pieces of speaker flying after they get broke in. .6^ft is a very small airspace even for a 10, that is why you weren't getting much from them.
If your console box dosen't work out, you could try leaving the 12 in it and porting it to the rear.
quad12vs on 12/17/2003 11:45:38
ok...pulled the w3 out and left the 12 in firing down and left it sealed. major iimprovement. wired the 12 for 1 ohm, should be getting somewhere around 500rms - think it can handel more though. think i should put the w3 in and pull the 12? both are quoted for 300rms. will the 10 sound better if i swap them out? This set up sounds very good and the spl is approaching what i had with the 4 12vs. not sure if i would notice that much of a diff swapping them out other than the price. all three of the subs are firing down. I could fire the two 10s in the rear forward and fire the 12 to the rear. Think this would make an improvement or no diff?
cplkittle on 12/17/2003 15:35:33
I think if you leave the 12 in the console firing down, and port it to the rear (ported gives you more SPL), and leave the 10s in a sealed box, you will be getting close to the maximum SQ and SPL.
as far as facing, that is something you will have to experiment with.
1.25^ft is closer to ideal for the 12. a 10 in a box that size would lose some of the acoustical suspension advantages (sound more boomy, lose some accuracy)
The reason I suggest porting the 12 is that naturally 12's have a lower frequency response, you can augment that by porting it, giving you a nice range of lower frequencies, and keeping the punch of the 10s in the sealed box gives you the best of both.
Swez on 12/19/2003 10:05:06
I'm confused here...
It seems like you mentioned 2 JL 10's sealed, under the rear seats and then adding a 12" under the console. That would be fine as noted by others. The 10's for punch bass (small sealed enclosure) and the 12" ported (if space allows) for the real low end bass. If this wis what you are shooting for, should be a very nice setup. Say more to clarify pls.
When mixing subs, not a big issue if each sub has a separate (dedicated) chamber that is matched for its needs. Yes, can use one larger enclosure to do this if you like. However, for maxcimum definition... SQL, consider tuning the 10's for operation in the 50 - 100 Hz range. This will net very good punch. Then, on your 12" sub, filter this to provide only very low end bass... say 35 - 60 Hz., would be a good place to start and tweak as needed.
This is very much what Pro & HT Audio is about. Larger sub for deep bass, and smaller drivers for midbass and punch. Having 2 amps will definitely make this easier assuming you have variable LP filters on the amps.
Finally, powering all this gear to full potential, will take some major ALT/BAT power. If there is enough room in the engine compartment, consider a dedicated (2nd) ALT/BAT combo for your sub amps. This may be much cheaper in the long run, then going out for a +300A ALT and a bank of high CCA batteries. The paired Z1000D's will pull very close to 180A at full power and at normal listening levels, much less. The Kicker 600.4, DVD and HU can all be run off stock ALT/BAT.
Does this make any sense to you folks?
Swez
STRATUS225 on 12/19/2003 15:40:24
FYI. Your truck does have the heavy duty alt and batt. 136amp and 750cca.
quad12vs on 01/2/2004 08:45:10
Whewwww............Holidays are finally over with.
Ok, I think I am going to drop the whole video business. Looks like that is going to be a major pain as far as installation goes. Will concentrate on setting up a good sq system. It has been a while since i replied so do you guys think I should start a new topic on this?
z1000d on a JL 10w7 or a 12w6v2 (sealed) or
z1000d on a Adire Brahma 15" (sealed) very intrested in this sub and looking at the xxx seriously , dont think i have the power for these bad boys though. z1000d says 1000w @ 1 ohm and I think that is peak, so I should have ~500rms to send to a sub. JL is defonatly not out of the question either. Oh yea any thoughts on Image Dynamics subs - seen them on sounddomain, didnt see a 15 though.
The center console that I have built has 2.8cu3. May want to check me on that though (16.25"w x 12"h x 25"l) Have been kicking the ported idea around on this and am still undecided. I ran one of the old model jl 15w6 in a sealed box built to jl's specs and it sounded great (nice clean deep bass). Now that I have had the chance to do some tuning on my system the 2 10w3v2 have nice tight punch to them (didnt have my gains set right with the head unit) The 12 on the other hand is as good as gone. Really thinking of going with a sealed 15 in the center console. Any ideas which way to fire the sub if I go this route? Front, back or down? Have read through some of the turorials and there is no way i can go with a ported 15. Did the 12 thing and I think i will be happier with a 15. acoustic-visions.com suggested running 800w to a 15" brahma in a 2.8cu3 box. So could I go this route? Would be underpowering it by 300w if i am correct on the z100d.
All three of the 15" I listed look to be pretty serious subs. Think am going a littel overkill on this whole center console thing? Maybe i should go back to lifting my rear seat and build one huge box with multi chanbers. There is a thought 3 10's sealed with 2 ported 15's and 1 ported 12...........yea right :) --- kinda got off the subject there.
Thanks
Jody
I do have one of the Type R subs left. Local sound shop said I should not mix diff sub sizes. Could I put the third Jl and this Type R in a sealed box in the center console. I do have the room to get the 1.25 cuft for 1 ported 10 or (just a thought on this, the 10 and 12 in the same sealed box) All of this will be controlled from a Pioneer DEH-P8500MP.
I will be putting a X-Box in this console with a DVD and monitor combo overhead of the console as well as a visor monitor for the pass side.
Sorry so long but I am going all out on this one. If I did not mention it this will be for a 2002 - 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 V-10 (will have to check the alt on this unless anybody knows)
Thanks
Replies (9)
cplkittle on 12/10/2003 09:05:40
I have never heard mixed sized subs sound bad, only better. Two 10s in a sealed box and one ported would be ideal in my opinion.
I have 2 12s in a bandpass, and am going to add either 2 8s or 2 10s sealed for punch. I am happy with my low end, but I need more articulation, more precision. I have no clue why you wouldn't mix sub sizes. several years ago they also believed you should go with all one brand HU to subs and everything inbetween.
I know the 1500 comes with a 117amp alt and a 600cca battery, there is a heavy duty package with upgraded alt and battery, 136amp/750cca. what package do you have? ie heated seats, heated mirrors, and or heavy duty upgrade.
2 1000w amps and a 600w amp will pull over 200 amps max. If the truck calls for a 117amp alt (factory), I would definitely consider upgrading. I can't find many 300+ alts online, can anyone else jump in here? The battery should be find if you can find an alt around 300amps don't konw if they make them that big or not.
uochronos on 12/10/2003 12:20:14
I have never heard of differnt size subs sounding bad either. i personaly also like hwo ti sound with 10"s and 12"s together.... if you cant find a 300amp alt anywhere which i'm pretty sure you probaly can eventualy online. I have a friend who dad owns a custom alternator shop here in sunny portland. they have dones several alternators for big sound system cars. they have even hooked up the electrical system for some cars for phoenix gold. so i'm sure if i got you the shops info they could whip somthing up for you.
quad12vs on 12/16/2003 07:35:48
sorry for the long wait. I finally got the custom center console built. I put the 12 firing down and the 10 firing toward the rear of the cab. Initally i divided the box giving each sub around .6cuft. Did not sound very good. Took the dvider out and thats got both subs in a ~1.25 cuft box. Sound pretty good. Sarting to tell the diff wthout the 4 12vs pounding. May have to change the sub arrangement again to get the center box sounding better. Will do for now. Any suggestions on this?
Next problem, I want to use my NEC Syncmaster 172n as a monitor for the rear pass. (kids) I will be hooking this up to a x-box. Going to get this working in the house first (hopefully) then put it in the truck. Should be just a matter of getting the right power inverter after that. Then the alt. I am looking for an adaptor of some sort to do this. Need to go from S-Video to RS232. I have found a USB to RS232 adaptor so I could use a s-video to USB or composit to USB and get there also. Is it poss to get this working or do I need to dish out the bucks and get a regular car monitor. How would the wirless head phones work with this setup? I would like to set it up so when they are playing game they could use the headphones and when they pop a movie in I can run it through the stereo through the AUX input. Will be putting in a visor monitor on the pass side up front for the wife :) I will be doing all of the installation from now on. I got screwed over major on the last install in this vehicle. Hopefully I can the a new Kicker 600.4 (like I paid for) they sold and installed a piece of junk and they knew it. Wont go into that though. Thanks
cplkittle on 12/16/2003 11:57:05
Don't know much about the video part, but am kinda worried about the 2 different size subs in the same box. If one is more powerful than the other, there could be some pieces of speaker flying after they get broke in. .6^ft is a very small airspace even for a 10, that is why you weren't getting much from them.
If your console box dosen't work out, you could try leaving the 12 in it and porting it to the rear.
quad12vs on 12/17/2003 11:45:38
ok...pulled the w3 out and left the 12 in firing down and left it sealed. major iimprovement. wired the 12 for 1 ohm, should be getting somewhere around 500rms - think it can handel more though. think i should put the w3 in and pull the 12? both are quoted for 300rms. will the 10 sound better if i swap them out? This set up sounds very good and the spl is approaching what i had with the 4 12vs. not sure if i would notice that much of a diff swapping them out other than the price. all three of the subs are firing down. I could fire the two 10s in the rear forward and fire the 12 to the rear. Think this would make an improvement or no diff?
cplkittle on 12/17/2003 15:35:33
I think if you leave the 12 in the console firing down, and port it to the rear (ported gives you more SPL), and leave the 10s in a sealed box, you will be getting close to the maximum SQ and SPL.
as far as facing, that is something you will have to experiment with.
1.25^ft is closer to ideal for the 12. a 10 in a box that size would lose some of the acoustical suspension advantages (sound more boomy, lose some accuracy)
The reason I suggest porting the 12 is that naturally 12's have a lower frequency response, you can augment that by porting it, giving you a nice range of lower frequencies, and keeping the punch of the 10s in the sealed box gives you the best of both.
Swez on 12/19/2003 10:05:06
I'm confused here...
It seems like you mentioned 2 JL 10's sealed, under the rear seats and then adding a 12" under the console. That would be fine as noted by others. The 10's for punch bass (small sealed enclosure) and the 12" ported (if space allows) for the real low end bass. If this wis what you are shooting for, should be a very nice setup. Say more to clarify pls.
When mixing subs, not a big issue if each sub has a separate (dedicated) chamber that is matched for its needs. Yes, can use one larger enclosure to do this if you like. However, for maxcimum definition... SQL, consider tuning the 10's for operation in the 50 - 100 Hz range. This will net very good punch. Then, on your 12" sub, filter this to provide only very low end bass... say 35 - 60 Hz., would be a good place to start and tweak as needed.
This is very much what Pro & HT Audio is about. Larger sub for deep bass, and smaller drivers for midbass and punch. Having 2 amps will definitely make this easier assuming you have variable LP filters on the amps.
Finally, powering all this gear to full potential, will take some major ALT/BAT power. If there is enough room in the engine compartment, consider a dedicated (2nd) ALT/BAT combo for your sub amps. This may be much cheaper in the long run, then going out for a +300A ALT and a bank of high CCA batteries. The paired Z1000D's will pull very close to 180A at full power and at normal listening levels, much less. The Kicker 600.4, DVD and HU can all be run off stock ALT/BAT.
Does this make any sense to you folks?
Swez
STRATUS225 on 12/19/2003 15:40:24
FYI. Your truck does have the heavy duty alt and batt. 136amp and 750cca.
quad12vs on 01/2/2004 08:45:10
Whewwww............Holidays are finally over with.
Ok, I think I am going to drop the whole video business. Looks like that is going to be a major pain as far as installation goes. Will concentrate on setting up a good sq system. It has been a while since i replied so do you guys think I should start a new topic on this?
z1000d on a JL 10w7 or a 12w6v2 (sealed) or
z1000d on a Adire Brahma 15" (sealed) very intrested in this sub and looking at the xxx seriously , dont think i have the power for these bad boys though. z1000d says 1000w @ 1 ohm and I think that is peak, so I should have ~500rms to send to a sub. JL is defonatly not out of the question either. Oh yea any thoughts on Image Dynamics subs - seen them on sounddomain, didnt see a 15 though.
The center console that I have built has 2.8cu3. May want to check me on that though (16.25"w x 12"h x 25"l) Have been kicking the ported idea around on this and am still undecided. I ran one of the old model jl 15w6 in a sealed box built to jl's specs and it sounded great (nice clean deep bass). Now that I have had the chance to do some tuning on my system the 2 10w3v2 have nice tight punch to them (didnt have my gains set right with the head unit) The 12 on the other hand is as good as gone. Really thinking of going with a sealed 15 in the center console. Any ideas which way to fire the sub if I go this route? Front, back or down? Have read through some of the turorials and there is no way i can go with a ported 15. Did the 12 thing and I think i will be happier with a 15. acoustic-visions.com suggested running 800w to a 15" brahma in a 2.8cu3 box. So could I go this route? Would be underpowering it by 300w if i am correct on the z100d.
All three of the 15" I listed look to be pretty serious subs. Think am going a littel overkill on this whole center console thing? Maybe i should go back to lifting my rear seat and build one huge box with multi chanbers. There is a thought 3 10's sealed with 2 ported 15's and 1 ported 12...........yea right :) --- kinda got off the subject there.
Thanks
Jody
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