Quick qustion for Swez and anyone else that might know. In regards to article just posted "are you in phase?", does this work for the other speakers in vehicle as well? Will other speakers get damaged from being out of phase in a vehicle. THINK
Thanx.
Replies (11)
ttocs on 11/26/2003 16:44:40
it will work for all speakers, but being out of phase will not damage a driver. It just causes it to move in the opposit direction from what it normally would. You could wire every speaker out of phase in a car and it would sound the same if you were to wire them correctly, and again would not hurt anything. As long as I have been doing this I can normally sit in a car and know fairly quickly if a speaker is out of phase. Along with less bass it will make it hard to tell where the sound is comming from.
There is another point on that article that I do not agree with. If you have two subs, that are wired out of phase, you will get virtually no bass. I have had customers come in and say that they see the speakers moving, but they get no sound. It is neat to see their face when you disconnect one sub and the bass starts. Then when you reverse the leads to that speaker you get even more bass. It is neat to see the subs reaching full excursion, and hear nothing....
STRATUS225 on 11/26/2003 17:08:02
Thanx ttocs. I really thought that serious damage could result from having speaker polarities crossed. Now i've got an actual situation to put to my original question. I have Infinity 6x9's in rear deck of car. these are chrysler factory infinity speakers out of a late model Grand Cherokee. They are fantastic speakers for mid-bass and are the reason that i have them in there. Of course they dont have conventional hook-ups, just a plug port so i'm not sure whats positive or negative. when i put the balance all the way to either side, the one speaker sounds incredible, (almost sub-like), but when the balance is dead center, all the low end seems to dissapear. is this normal, or is one or both out of phase? Sorry to keep bothering everyone with such idiotic questions.
cplkittle on 11/26/2003 19:02:48
I have heard, but haven't tried what they call the 9v battery test. just stick a battery to the speaker leads MOMENTARILY and if it pushes out, the positive of the battery is touching the positive terminal on the speaker. for 6x9s, I would probably use a halfway dead AA battery if I were to try this..
STRATUS225 on 11/26/2003 19:07:12
This does work, although i definately would not use a 9 volt battery. AA will suffice. my only problem is that i cant see the speakers with the setup i have in the trunk. They are compltely covered by my amp rack.
cplkittle on 11/26/2003 19:15:00
I safely assume you have a floating ground system and will not hurt it by simply switching the wires just to see what sounds better. That is what I would try if you can't get to the speakers.
ttocs on 11/26/2003 21:25:45
it sounds as though they are out of phase.
When two speakers are out of phase, and playing the exact same signal, everytime one speaker moves one inch forward, the other moves one inch back. There is no net gain or loss in volume, no change in pressure, no sound(or less)...
cplkittle on 11/27/2003 10:01:51
So basically you lose no sound unless you are dealing with subs, for example a dual bandpass box?
ttocs on 11/27/2003 20:32:22
you will loose sound, but not as much. Try inverting one of your subs and see how it sounds. It will not damage anything and is neat to see. If the box is the exact same size for both speakers, you will get almost no sound.
If you have a mid or high speaker out of phase, it will net less bass, and a "strange" sound(for lack of a better term). It will just not sound right.
STRATUS225 on 11/27/2003 20:35:05
you were exactly right. thats the problem i was having, just didnt sound right. switched left rear around and sound is much better although it was a huge pain in the a*%. Thanx for the help guys, once again.
Swez on 11/27/2003 21:49:30
Yep, phase alignment is really very tricky to work with. In subs, a lot easier to detect is subs are not in phase with each other. Very poor low bass performance and not much output.
Interior speaker phase alignment in the rear deck is key to full midbass and complimentary to subs. If out of phase here, weak midbass, some loss of highs due to cancellations as well.
Front speakers... a mixed bag depending on how the speakers are mounted. Some trial and error may be needed to get the "front stage" matched to the rest of the system. It's all up to you ears to detect sound balancing and phase alignment issues.
Maybe I need to back and rewrite that FAQ in more detail... there is so much more to the subject that was covered in that FAQ.
Comments?
Swez
cplkittle on 11/28/2003 07:48:23
So is it the very small airspace in an isobaric setup that makes it work out of phase?
Thanx.
Replies (11)
ttocs on 11/26/2003 16:44:40
it will work for all speakers, but being out of phase will not damage a driver. It just causes it to move in the opposit direction from what it normally would. You could wire every speaker out of phase in a car and it would sound the same if you were to wire them correctly, and again would not hurt anything. As long as I have been doing this I can normally sit in a car and know fairly quickly if a speaker is out of phase. Along with less bass it will make it hard to tell where the sound is comming from.
There is another point on that article that I do not agree with. If you have two subs, that are wired out of phase, you will get virtually no bass. I have had customers come in and say that they see the speakers moving, but they get no sound. It is neat to see their face when you disconnect one sub and the bass starts. Then when you reverse the leads to that speaker you get even more bass. It is neat to see the subs reaching full excursion, and hear nothing....
STRATUS225 on 11/26/2003 17:08:02
Thanx ttocs. I really thought that serious damage could result from having speaker polarities crossed. Now i've got an actual situation to put to my original question. I have Infinity 6x9's in rear deck of car. these are chrysler factory infinity speakers out of a late model Grand Cherokee. They are fantastic speakers for mid-bass and are the reason that i have them in there. Of course they dont have conventional hook-ups, just a plug port so i'm not sure whats positive or negative. when i put the balance all the way to either side, the one speaker sounds incredible, (almost sub-like), but when the balance is dead center, all the low end seems to dissapear. is this normal, or is one or both out of phase? Sorry to keep bothering everyone with such idiotic questions.
cplkittle on 11/26/2003 19:02:48
I have heard, but haven't tried what they call the 9v battery test. just stick a battery to the speaker leads MOMENTARILY and if it pushes out, the positive of the battery is touching the positive terminal on the speaker. for 6x9s, I would probably use a halfway dead AA battery if I were to try this..
STRATUS225 on 11/26/2003 19:07:12
This does work, although i definately would not use a 9 volt battery. AA will suffice. my only problem is that i cant see the speakers with the setup i have in the trunk. They are compltely covered by my amp rack.
cplkittle on 11/26/2003 19:15:00
I safely assume you have a floating ground system and will not hurt it by simply switching the wires just to see what sounds better. That is what I would try if you can't get to the speakers.
ttocs on 11/26/2003 21:25:45
it sounds as though they are out of phase.
When two speakers are out of phase, and playing the exact same signal, everytime one speaker moves one inch forward, the other moves one inch back. There is no net gain or loss in volume, no change in pressure, no sound(or less)...
cplkittle on 11/27/2003 10:01:51
So basically you lose no sound unless you are dealing with subs, for example a dual bandpass box?
ttocs on 11/27/2003 20:32:22
you will loose sound, but not as much. Try inverting one of your subs and see how it sounds. It will not damage anything and is neat to see. If the box is the exact same size for both speakers, you will get almost no sound.
If you have a mid or high speaker out of phase, it will net less bass, and a "strange" sound(for lack of a better term). It will just not sound right.
STRATUS225 on 11/27/2003 20:35:05
you were exactly right. thats the problem i was having, just didnt sound right. switched left rear around and sound is much better although it was a huge pain in the a*%. Thanx for the help guys, once again.
Swez on 11/27/2003 21:49:30
Yep, phase alignment is really very tricky to work with. In subs, a lot easier to detect is subs are not in phase with each other. Very poor low bass performance and not much output.
Interior speaker phase alignment in the rear deck is key to full midbass and complimentary to subs. If out of phase here, weak midbass, some loss of highs due to cancellations as well.
Front speakers... a mixed bag depending on how the speakers are mounted. Some trial and error may be needed to get the "front stage" matched to the rest of the system. It's all up to you ears to detect sound balancing and phase alignment issues.
Maybe I need to back and rewrite that FAQ in more detail... there is so much more to the subject that was covered in that FAQ.
Comments?
Swez
cplkittle on 11/28/2003 07:48:23
So is it the very small airspace in an isobaric setup that makes it work out of phase?
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