Hey i'm looking for an answer reguarding amps.. I have a 10'' W7 in my ride powered by this 1000 watt kenwood amp.. and I know the sub isn't being used to it's full potential.. whats the best amp that i could buy to power this sub to it's fullest and get the maximum bass ? JL 500/1? I do have some money to invest into whatever it takes so please give your suggestions.
Replies (10)
ttocs on 11/2/2003 10:11:02
the jl is a nice amp. I have gotten to use them lately and have been very happy/impressed with them. The 1000/1 would be the most pwr, but will cost you...
Check out jbl. There are alot of good amps by them cheap.
Swez on 11/2/2003 10:16:17
The JL 10-W7 can safely handle 500 - 600 watts RMS. If you go above that range, you will damage the sub and void the warrantee.
Look here: http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/RP_Chart.html
Which Kenwood amp do you have now? (model number)
Is the box used, sealed or ported and what size (internal cf) is the enclosure for your woofer?
The 500/1 amp from JL is a very good match for this sub. Nice features, but not cheap either. Can get very good results with a JBL BP 600.1 at ~half the price.
Look here: http://ikesound.com/product-product_id/186 $189.00
Finally, if you have a ported/vented enclosure, you might want to install subsonic filtering (add on) with this amp. It does have a good LP filter network, but when using vented systems, need to block out frequencies below the tuning frequency to prevent sub damage,
Swez
jory on 11/2/2003 20:54:25
Sorry I didn't read the guidlines of asking for help before I typed the post ... anyways my **** is:
4 channel amp is like an 8 year old amp from alpine.. (any advice on what i should upgrade this too considering my speakers ?)
Monoblock Amp KAC-8101D
Deck KDC-V7022
Sub 10'' W7 - jl H.O. wedge enclosure
6x9's KFC-X698
4x6's KFC-X468C
I doubt thats anything special, but i am somewhat new to the car audio scene.. anyways yeah some guy told me that
Memphis 16-MC1000D Class D 1100W Amp would run the **** pretty nicely, your thoughts on that ? By the way i just want to say thankyou for this forum it's incredible, It took like no time for a response to my question in great detail with links ect, very good work, thanks.
Swez on 11/2/2003 21:58:45
That amp:
Kenwood KAC-8101D
POWER RATINGS
- Maximum Output Power: 1000 Watts
- Power Output at 2 Ohms, at 14.4V (100Hz, 0.5% THD): 400 Watts x 1
- Power Output at 4 Ohms, at 14.4V (20Hz - 200Hz, 0.5% THD): 200 Watts x 1
AUDIO FEATURES
- Class D Operation
- Ground Isolation Circuit
- Quiet Turn-On
- RCA Audio Inputs: Gold-Plated
- RCA Line Outputs: Gold-Plated
- Selectable Infrasonic Filter: Off/15/25Hz, 18dB per Octave
- Speaker Connectors: Gold-Plated, Screw-Type
- Speaker Level Input Terminals: Plug-Type
- Variable Low-Pass Electronic Crossover: 50Hz - 200Hz, 18dB per Octave
- Bass Boost: Off/+12dB (90Hz)
Not a bad amp and you get ~400 RMS output @ 2 ohms. Only 200 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. Your sub is a 3 ohm SVC and power from that amp will be ~300 RMS. Not bad for a single 10" sub, but this sub can take a larger amp and still be well in the game.
That sub enclosure is Ported and designed specifically for this sub. Very good match here... just more RMS power would help get the most from this sub. (your target is ~ 500 watts RMS @ 3 ohms to this sub. Obviously, the best fit... JL 500/1... but not a cheap deal here right?
Do you know the price on this amp in your area? Can you swing that if you sell your KAC-8101D? ($150-175 is a fair price used with a warrantee) If not, we can look at other amp options to get you all the bass this sub can deliver.
For now, let's focus on getting your bass right. Once that is up to snuff, then we can address the 4 channel amp needs for your present speakers OK?
Swez COFFEE
PS Welcome to the site and come with your thinking cap on. Also, we run the site PG so please avoid "colorful" lingo. You write well enough without the color commentary. Tks!
jory on 11/2/2003 23:01:19
er oops, my apologies for the language, very bad and unintentional habbit heh..
Anyways i've decided to go with the 500/1, that kenwood amp was a mistake, the reason I had gotten it is becuase before the w7 I had a pair of 12'' rockford fosgate series 1 subs, and the amp was plenty and more than what I needed at the time. A problem that I have however is that the 500/1 here WITH a tradein on my kenwood is still coming out to like 1000$ at the local stereo shop... Not that i'm afraid to invest money into my stereo, it's just that I'm sure that the amp can be found for cheaper... I'm in canada by the way so thats CDN..
Swez on 11/3/2003 09:42:41
Egads man... that is a horrible price for an amp of that power rating... even if it is a JL amp. Just sell your Kenwood to a buddy who needs a decent bass amp. Should be able to get ~$250 CAN for this one.
Did a little hunting off the web and found this link on JL 500/1:
http://www.mobilcaraudio.com/catalog/item/533045/188299.htm
Nice features, reliable product... but not cheap here either, $460.00 USD plus S/H. Wondering if ttocs can help you out with a better deal as his shop sells and installs JL products too.
There are alternatives to JL amps that will do well and cost less, if you find the JL amp is just too far out of the budget you have to work with. We can offer some possible alternatives if you wish. The key here, is to remember you have 3 ohm sub.
Swez
PS What part of Canada are you located? Do you know the currency exchange rate between CAN & USD ? I am assuming $1.00 USD = $1.60 CAN. Is that in the game or a bit off?
jory on 11/3/2003 21:28:06
Swez, I'm living in a small town about 20 miles north of the USA border called Cranbrook, BC. and i'm not posotive on what the exchange rate is, but I think you're guess was pretty accurate. Anyways, I think i'm going to go with JL 500/1, Id rather dish out some money for the best match for the sub, then settle for second best with one of the cheaper alternatives. Maybe i'll make a trip to the states or something one of these weekends to pick it up.. Oh and another curious question, how well would 2 W7 10's sound as opposed to 1? would it dish out 2x the overall effect of 1?what sort of higher end system would 2 W7 10's be comparable to if powered correctly ? Sorry for the storm of questions just hungry for info.
Swez on 11/3/2003 22:09:09
Well, that's a fair question and yes, a pair of 10W7's with a 500/1 will net 250 RMS per sub. You'd pick up ~+3dB with a 2nd sub, but if you wanted to get a big bang system, a pair of 10 W7's and the 1000/1 is the optimal choice. A sealed dual 10 box is best here.
Here, you can pick up +6 dB more bass than the aformentioned system... but now you are talking close to $2,000 for just subs and that amp. Is +6dB more bass worth that to you? Maybe not...
You could use a 500/1 and use a vented 2 x 10" box. This will give more low bass SPL at less power and save the added expenses of a 1000/1 amp. A ported enclosure wil net ~+3dB per sub at lower power input. This will net great low end bass, dual 10's and a 500/1 amp.
Here's a very good prefab enclosure for 2x10 Vented JL's:
http://www.subzoneusa.com/jl_audiow7.htm
JV-102 Dual 10" Vented 3/4" MDF Box for JL Audio subs w/ 1.5" Baffle - 1.4cf per sub 13 1/2"h x 18 1/4"d x 30"w $149.99 USD
Can order from:http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/subzone.html I think they ship to Canada too.
Have a look! Great bass is a combination of quality subs, a potent amp and most important... the right enclosure!!! Goes w/o saying... a good install is the key.
Swez
PS You can duplicate the sub/enclosure you have now and still use the JL 500/1 amp and get very good results... but a more potent amp with sub sonic filtering will be cheaper than a JL amp.
The JBL 600.1 will deliver 300 RMS per sub an if you go ported, just buy a set of subsonic filter kit from Harrison Labs. A lot cheaper than 1 JL 500/1 and more power too.
If you really want to go over the top, the JBL 1200.1 will really kick butt (600 RMS/sub) and much less cost than the JL 1000/1. Just need the SS filters. ($30.00/set USD) THINK it over carefully!
jory on 11/13/2003 02:04:35
Swez, I bought the 500/1, and it's set up.. however i'm somewhat confused by the gains and settings, like I said im not very experienced, so if you could maybe give me a walkthrough of somesort, or perhaps a setup to use under my circumstances that would give the best results, thatd be great.. thanks
Swez on 11/13/2003 07:36:26
I can try... just not that familiar with JL amps... would have to read their install manual to know this one better and can probably get this off the web too. Yep.. here it is:
http://www.jlaudio.com/amps/pdfs/500_1.pdf
The gain settings to start with, should be pretty closely matched to your HU (receiver) output voltage range. Today's aftermarket HU's range from 1.5 - 6.0 volts output. Your amp gain settings should be the same as HU voltage. The KDC-V7022 has a 2.0 volt output rating.
Gain Setting: between 2 - 6 volts (HU dependent) Your HU is rated at 2.0 volts ouput from the RCA's. Use the "LOW VOLTAGE" side of the dual switch and adjust gain for best output and lowest distortion from sub. See the FAQ section: "Tweaking the Bass" for details on how to do this well.
Low Pass Filter: is usually best for subs between 80-100 Hz. Try the 12 & 24 dB slope filtering selections and see which sounds best in your vehicle.
The Sub Sonic filter should be set at about the same frequency as your port tuning frequency on the enclosure. Contact JL Tech for this detail as they will know the port tuning details... (not on web site) My guess, somewhere between 35-45 Hz.
Bass EQ/ Boost: Best to leave this off for now (can tweak this later)
OK, that's the beginning setup parameters. Just need to know more about your port tuning freq of the HO enclosure. With that, we can finish the tweaking process in short order.
Swez
Swez
Replies (10)
ttocs on 11/2/2003 10:11:02
the jl is a nice amp. I have gotten to use them lately and have been very happy/impressed with them. The 1000/1 would be the most pwr, but will cost you...
Check out jbl. There are alot of good amps by them cheap.
Swez on 11/2/2003 10:16:17
The JL 10-W7 can safely handle 500 - 600 watts RMS. If you go above that range, you will damage the sub and void the warrantee.
Look here: http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/RP_Chart.html
Which Kenwood amp do you have now? (model number)
Is the box used, sealed or ported and what size (internal cf) is the enclosure for your woofer?
The 500/1 amp from JL is a very good match for this sub. Nice features, but not cheap either. Can get very good results with a JBL BP 600.1 at ~half the price.
Look here: http://ikesound.com/product-product_id/186 $189.00
Finally, if you have a ported/vented enclosure, you might want to install subsonic filtering (add on) with this amp. It does have a good LP filter network, but when using vented systems, need to block out frequencies below the tuning frequency to prevent sub damage,
Swez
jory on 11/2/2003 20:54:25
Sorry I didn't read the guidlines of asking for help before I typed the post ... anyways my **** is:
4 channel amp is like an 8 year old amp from alpine.. (any advice on what i should upgrade this too considering my speakers ?)
Monoblock Amp KAC-8101D
Deck KDC-V7022
Sub 10'' W7 - jl H.O. wedge enclosure
6x9's KFC-X698
4x6's KFC-X468C
I doubt thats anything special, but i am somewhat new to the car audio scene.. anyways yeah some guy told me that
Memphis 16-MC1000D Class D 1100W Amp would run the **** pretty nicely, your thoughts on that ? By the way i just want to say thankyou for this forum it's incredible, It took like no time for a response to my question in great detail with links ect, very good work, thanks.
Swez on 11/2/2003 21:58:45
That amp:
Kenwood KAC-8101D
POWER RATINGS
- Maximum Output Power: 1000 Watts
- Power Output at 2 Ohms, at 14.4V (100Hz, 0.5% THD): 400 Watts x 1
- Power Output at 4 Ohms, at 14.4V (20Hz - 200Hz, 0.5% THD): 200 Watts x 1
AUDIO FEATURES
- Class D Operation
- Ground Isolation Circuit
- Quiet Turn-On
- RCA Audio Inputs: Gold-Plated
- RCA Line Outputs: Gold-Plated
- Selectable Infrasonic Filter: Off/15/25Hz, 18dB per Octave
- Speaker Connectors: Gold-Plated, Screw-Type
- Speaker Level Input Terminals: Plug-Type
- Variable Low-Pass Electronic Crossover: 50Hz - 200Hz, 18dB per Octave
- Bass Boost: Off/+12dB (90Hz)
Not a bad amp and you get ~400 RMS output @ 2 ohms. Only 200 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. Your sub is a 3 ohm SVC and power from that amp will be ~300 RMS. Not bad for a single 10" sub, but this sub can take a larger amp and still be well in the game.
That sub enclosure is Ported and designed specifically for this sub. Very good match here... just more RMS power would help get the most from this sub. (your target is ~ 500 watts RMS @ 3 ohms to this sub. Obviously, the best fit... JL 500/1... but not a cheap deal here right?
Do you know the price on this amp in your area? Can you swing that if you sell your KAC-8101D? ($150-175 is a fair price used with a warrantee) If not, we can look at other amp options to get you all the bass this sub can deliver.
For now, let's focus on getting your bass right. Once that is up to snuff, then we can address the 4 channel amp needs for your present speakers OK?
Swez COFFEE
PS Welcome to the site and come with your thinking cap on. Also, we run the site PG so please avoid "colorful" lingo. You write well enough without the color commentary. Tks!
jory on 11/2/2003 23:01:19
er oops, my apologies for the language, very bad and unintentional habbit heh..
Anyways i've decided to go with the 500/1, that kenwood amp was a mistake, the reason I had gotten it is becuase before the w7 I had a pair of 12'' rockford fosgate series 1 subs, and the amp was plenty and more than what I needed at the time. A problem that I have however is that the 500/1 here WITH a tradein on my kenwood is still coming out to like 1000$ at the local stereo shop... Not that i'm afraid to invest money into my stereo, it's just that I'm sure that the amp can be found for cheaper... I'm in canada by the way so thats CDN..
Swez on 11/3/2003 09:42:41
Egads man... that is a horrible price for an amp of that power rating... even if it is a JL amp. Just sell your Kenwood to a buddy who needs a decent bass amp. Should be able to get ~$250 CAN for this one.
Did a little hunting off the web and found this link on JL 500/1:
http://www.mobilcaraudio.com/catalog/item/533045/188299.htm
Nice features, reliable product... but not cheap here either, $460.00 USD plus S/H. Wondering if ttocs can help you out with a better deal as his shop sells and installs JL products too.
There are alternatives to JL amps that will do well and cost less, if you find the JL amp is just too far out of the budget you have to work with. We can offer some possible alternatives if you wish. The key here, is to remember you have 3 ohm sub.
Swez
PS What part of Canada are you located? Do you know the currency exchange rate between CAN & USD ? I am assuming $1.00 USD = $1.60 CAN. Is that in the game or a bit off?
jory on 11/3/2003 21:28:06
Swez, I'm living in a small town about 20 miles north of the USA border called Cranbrook, BC. and i'm not posotive on what the exchange rate is, but I think you're guess was pretty accurate. Anyways, I think i'm going to go with JL 500/1, Id rather dish out some money for the best match for the sub, then settle for second best with one of the cheaper alternatives. Maybe i'll make a trip to the states or something one of these weekends to pick it up.. Oh and another curious question, how well would 2 W7 10's sound as opposed to 1? would it dish out 2x the overall effect of 1?what sort of higher end system would 2 W7 10's be comparable to if powered correctly ? Sorry for the storm of questions just hungry for info.
Swez on 11/3/2003 22:09:09
Well, that's a fair question and yes, a pair of 10W7's with a 500/1 will net 250 RMS per sub. You'd pick up ~+3dB with a 2nd sub, but if you wanted to get a big bang system, a pair of 10 W7's and the 1000/1 is the optimal choice. A sealed dual 10 box is best here.
Here, you can pick up +6 dB more bass than the aformentioned system... but now you are talking close to $2,000 for just subs and that amp. Is +6dB more bass worth that to you? Maybe not...
You could use a 500/1 and use a vented 2 x 10" box. This will give more low bass SPL at less power and save the added expenses of a 1000/1 amp. A ported enclosure wil net ~+3dB per sub at lower power input. This will net great low end bass, dual 10's and a 500/1 amp.
Here's a very good prefab enclosure for 2x10 Vented JL's:
http://www.subzoneusa.com/jl_audiow7.htm
JV-102 Dual 10" Vented 3/4" MDF Box for JL Audio subs w/ 1.5" Baffle - 1.4cf per sub 13 1/2"h x 18 1/4"d x 30"w $149.99 USD
Can order from:http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/subzone.html I think they ship to Canada too.
Have a look! Great bass is a combination of quality subs, a potent amp and most important... the right enclosure!!! Goes w/o saying... a good install is the key.
Swez
PS You can duplicate the sub/enclosure you have now and still use the JL 500/1 amp and get very good results... but a more potent amp with sub sonic filtering will be cheaper than a JL amp.
The JBL 600.1 will deliver 300 RMS per sub an if you go ported, just buy a set of subsonic filter kit from Harrison Labs. A lot cheaper than 1 JL 500/1 and more power too.
If you really want to go over the top, the JBL 1200.1 will really kick butt (600 RMS/sub) and much less cost than the JL 1000/1. Just need the SS filters. ($30.00/set USD) THINK it over carefully!
jory on 11/13/2003 02:04:35
Swez, I bought the 500/1, and it's set up.. however i'm somewhat confused by the gains and settings, like I said im not very experienced, so if you could maybe give me a walkthrough of somesort, or perhaps a setup to use under my circumstances that would give the best results, thatd be great.. thanks
Swez on 11/13/2003 07:36:26
I can try... just not that familiar with JL amps... would have to read their install manual to know this one better and can probably get this off the web too. Yep.. here it is:
http://www.jlaudio.com/amps/pdfs/500_1.pdf
The gain settings to start with, should be pretty closely matched to your HU (receiver) output voltage range. Today's aftermarket HU's range from 1.5 - 6.0 volts output. Your amp gain settings should be the same as HU voltage. The KDC-V7022 has a 2.0 volt output rating.
Gain Setting: between 2 - 6 volts (HU dependent) Your HU is rated at 2.0 volts ouput from the RCA's. Use the "LOW VOLTAGE" side of the dual switch and adjust gain for best output and lowest distortion from sub. See the FAQ section: "Tweaking the Bass" for details on how to do this well.
Low Pass Filter: is usually best for subs between 80-100 Hz. Try the 12 & 24 dB slope filtering selections and see which sounds best in your vehicle.
The Sub Sonic filter should be set at about the same frequency as your port tuning frequency on the enclosure. Contact JL Tech for this detail as they will know the port tuning details... (not on web site) My guess, somewhere between 35-45 Hz.
Bass EQ/ Boost: Best to leave this off for now (can tweak this later)
OK, that's the beginning setup parameters. Just need to know more about your port tuning freq of the HO enclosure. With that, we can finish the tweaking process in short order.
Swez
Swez
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