I just got a 1998 Saturn SL and want great sound in it. I've been searching around on the internet and talking to folks for a while to figuring out what to get.
My head unit is a Pioneer Premier Deh-550mp.
My friend from out of town changed his system up and will sell me his amp for $100 as a new car gift. Seems like a great deal for all I can tell.
Audiobahn A6601t 75 watt X 6 channels
(http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/ABNA6601T)
I don't see any reason not to go with this amp. So starting with it here is what I've been thinking about: oh, my budget, I was looking around $275 for the rest.
I want to do matched components in the front because I've heard many vehicles that just sound much better with them instead of like 2 or 3-ways. I looked around and was thinking about the PIONEER TS-C160R 6 ½" REV 250W COMPONENTs that run at 60 watts rms, also I looked at the Infinity Kappas (the lower end ones not the 6.1's) but the highs on them seem a little too sharp and I think I would like more low response coming from the 6.5's" The ones I'm leaning towards right now are the AUDIOBAHN ABC600T 6-1/2 6.5 COMPONENT SYSTEM I can pick them up for around $90 and heard good things about them.
For the rear I was thinking that I wouldn't necessarily need anything because the car is so small and I don't ever have passengers. If I need fill back there would it be okay to just run the current speakers back there off of the head unit? That will give me 4 channels left on the amp to use.
The Saturn is a smaller car so I was thinking one 12" sub would be enough to "fill" it with good quality bass. I'm not interested in jarring all the bolts loose on it. I'm interested in precise quality sound so I was thinking about the Infinity kappa Perfect 12.1 or 12.1 D the difference being the 12.1D is a dual voice coil sub.
http://www.infinitysystems.com/caraudio/category.aspx?Ser=KPE
Bridged the amp puts out 210 watts rms an to my knowledege isn't 2 ohm stable according to what I've read. This is where I really don't know anything. I'm pretty sure the 210 watts will be enough for the infinity sub. If I went with the Dual voice coil sub would that be better? I can bridge the four remaining channels on the amp giving me 2 X 210 watt rms. can I then bridge those together to get 400 watts rms to the sub? or would I put 210 watts into each voice coil? wire it in series or parrell? I'm so confused.
I appreciate any of your thoughts/comments/suggestions on if I'm setting myself up for a good system or changes I should make.
Thanks
Replies (9)
Swez on 10/14/2003 19:40:56
Very good deal on your amp! Nice friend...
You have the right idea on Comps for the front speakers. Get the best you can afford and be sure you know what size the doors can take. www.crutchfield.com will tell you what you have now to work with.
If you do not want rear fill, or only a little in rear, using the HU amps for them is an option.
As for the sub... a single 12" should be fine and Infinity is a good blend of SQ and SPL. Ported will make them a bit louder at the low end when tuned, but sealed is easiest and has a natural roll off slope below ~40 Hz. A 1.25 cf sealed box is good for the Infinity 12's.
If you bridge 4 channels down to a 2 channel amp scenario, need 4 ohms to each new channel. The 2/4/8 ohm DVC is you best choice. One bridged channel to each voice coil. Just make sure you match the amp output voltages to each coil or you may run into distortion issues. An AC voltmeter and test tone CD will help a lot here.
The LP filters on each amp channel should be set @ ~ 80 Hz.
Your front Comps HPF should be the same... 80 Hz.
Finally, the HU mantioned has 2 sets of preamp output RCA's. The front channel will power the amp channels that run the Comps. The rear channel will control sub output from the HU. Nice and simple that way.
Comments?
Swez
PS Be sure to review the amplifier install/applications manual for bridging this amp. Not sure what options they recommend. If you don have one, you can go to Bahn Tech and request a DL copy of same.
-EAD- on 10/16/2003 08:53:59
Swez, Thanks for the reply... and especially the advice on the sub and how to setup it and the amp. I will also definitly get a manual for the amp and check it out.
I read something that raised another question... actually two.
1) Will my cars alternator be enough to power the sub and not drain my battery? I read something that recommended changing the wiring to the battery from the alternator to 4 gauge instead of the stock 8 gauge... is this something I need to worry about?
2) I need to get an amp install kit... where should I go to buy one? Recommendations on what to get?
Swez on 10/16/2003 09:16:17
Yes, depending on what current this amp draws when you kick up the power, you may have some electrical shortages to deal with.
Write to Tech Service on this Bahn amp and find out how much current it will draw near peak output. Also, find out what size ALT and BAT you have now in that Saturn... then we can suggest some options to consider.
Also, yes... upgrading the power wire frm ALT/BAT and BAT/GND to #4 will help allow maximum current to flow to amp. The best quality wire kits I have seen are from: www.knukonceptz.com
High quality wires, RCA's and install hardware at very reasonable prices are available there.
Come back to us about your present ALT capacity and the CCA rating on your present battery... then we can make some recommendations on how to work all this out. You can call the Saturn dealer ora good auto parts store to determine the ALT output capacity. My guess... 65-85A output max and a 500 CCA battery are stock.
Please advise...
Swez
-EAD- on 10/16/2003 09:44:41
I'm requesting the information on the amp from Bahn right now.
The kits at knukonceptz seem very reasonable compared to what I've seen on other places on the internet...
I called the Saturn Dealership here in Houston and they told me the ALT is 90A and the battery is 500 CCA .
once again thanks for all your help.
-EAD- on 10/16/2003 11:57:42
Talked to Bahn the amp has 2 40 amp fuses so the Tech guy told me it will pull 80 amps max... and that I could have no problems (or if I did have light dimming I might need to add a 1/2 -1 farad cap? I'm clueless)
I'm no electrical Engineer but if my ALT puts out 90 and my amp takes up to 80 does that still leave 10 recharging the battery/runing the rest of the cars electrical system?
I read some of the articles on the site and applied the formula there and this is what I ended up with 75 watts X 6 channels= 450 total watts divided by 12 volts on the battery is 37.5.
90amps on the ALT times 40% (which I would guess would be the unused output of the ALT after the car electrical system) gives me 36. A difference of 1.5. (I'm not sure what the unit of the 1.5 is... amphere's maybe? not that I know what those are as oppossed to amps)
Best I can tell is that I'm cutting it close, definitly not sure what to do. This is where a little knowledge can be dangerous knowldge.
ttocs on 10/16/2003 17:47:39
You will be fine with that.
Don't think too much, just put it in. Use a descent 4 awg wire.
Swez on 10/16/2003 17:56:35
The 90 A alt will do the job and your amp will probably draw under 50A. most of the time. That leaves enough for the rest of the vehicle to operate.
Worst case, you may need to upgrade to a larger CCA rated battery. An 850 CCA BAT has enough storage capacity to equal more than 2,000,000 farads of CAPS.
Swez
-EAD- on 10/17/2003 00:06:45
Thanks for all of your help, I feel a whole lot more comfortable with this now. I should have realized the amp wasn't going to pull top wattage all the time, and its not like I'm building a system to make ears bleed... just really good sound!
I'm going to go with the audiobahn Components and the dual voice coil sub. I'll install those and then try with and w/o fill in the back.
I ordered a 4 gauge amp kit from knuekonceptz today... So it should get here next week along with my speakers and sub... I'm getting the amp this weekend. So I guess I need to figure out where I want to mount the tweeters and what kind of box to put the subs in.
So another question more specific to the install. I'm going to have to run speaker wire from the amp to the components in the front right. So I'm going to install the power cables along one side of the car and the RCA's along the other. What is the best way to run the speaker wire? Can I run the wire with the power cables? Or will that cause interference with the sound? I would imagine it would but I'm just checking. What other options are there?
Swez on 10/17/2003 23:49:02
Most guys do fine with running their Comp speaker lines along side the RCA lines. If you get too close to the power feed line, you may pick up unwanted noise to speakers.
The safest option, run your speaker leads up the middle of the vehicle and noise should not be an issue... just harder to do.
Swez
My head unit is a Pioneer Premier Deh-550mp.
My friend from out of town changed his system up and will sell me his amp for $100 as a new car gift. Seems like a great deal for all I can tell.
Audiobahn A6601t 75 watt X 6 channels
(http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/ABNA6601T)
I don't see any reason not to go with this amp. So starting with it here is what I've been thinking about: oh, my budget, I was looking around $275 for the rest.
I want to do matched components in the front because I've heard many vehicles that just sound much better with them instead of like 2 or 3-ways. I looked around and was thinking about the PIONEER TS-C160R 6 ½" REV 250W COMPONENTs that run at 60 watts rms, also I looked at the Infinity Kappas (the lower end ones not the 6.1's) but the highs on them seem a little too sharp and I think I would like more low response coming from the 6.5's" The ones I'm leaning towards right now are the AUDIOBAHN ABC600T 6-1/2 6.5 COMPONENT SYSTEM I can pick them up for around $90 and heard good things about them.
For the rear I was thinking that I wouldn't necessarily need anything because the car is so small and I don't ever have passengers. If I need fill back there would it be okay to just run the current speakers back there off of the head unit? That will give me 4 channels left on the amp to use.
The Saturn is a smaller car so I was thinking one 12" sub would be enough to "fill" it with good quality bass. I'm not interested in jarring all the bolts loose on it. I'm interested in precise quality sound so I was thinking about the Infinity kappa Perfect 12.1 or 12.1 D the difference being the 12.1D is a dual voice coil sub.
http://www.infinitysystems.com/caraudio/category.aspx?Ser=KPE
Bridged the amp puts out 210 watts rms an to my knowledege isn't 2 ohm stable according to what I've read. This is where I really don't know anything. I'm pretty sure the 210 watts will be enough for the infinity sub. If I went with the Dual voice coil sub would that be better? I can bridge the four remaining channels on the amp giving me 2 X 210 watt rms. can I then bridge those together to get 400 watts rms to the sub? or would I put 210 watts into each voice coil? wire it in series or parrell? I'm so confused.
I appreciate any of your thoughts/comments/suggestions on if I'm setting myself up for a good system or changes I should make.
Thanks
Replies (9)
Swez on 10/14/2003 19:40:56
Very good deal on your amp! Nice friend...
You have the right idea on Comps for the front speakers. Get the best you can afford and be sure you know what size the doors can take. www.crutchfield.com will tell you what you have now to work with.
If you do not want rear fill, or only a little in rear, using the HU amps for them is an option.
As for the sub... a single 12" should be fine and Infinity is a good blend of SQ and SPL. Ported will make them a bit louder at the low end when tuned, but sealed is easiest and has a natural roll off slope below ~40 Hz. A 1.25 cf sealed box is good for the Infinity 12's.
If you bridge 4 channels down to a 2 channel amp scenario, need 4 ohms to each new channel. The 2/4/8 ohm DVC is you best choice. One bridged channel to each voice coil. Just make sure you match the amp output voltages to each coil or you may run into distortion issues. An AC voltmeter and test tone CD will help a lot here.
The LP filters on each amp channel should be set @ ~ 80 Hz.
Your front Comps HPF should be the same... 80 Hz.
Finally, the HU mantioned has 2 sets of preamp output RCA's. The front channel will power the amp channels that run the Comps. The rear channel will control sub output from the HU. Nice and simple that way.
Comments?
Swez
PS Be sure to review the amplifier install/applications manual for bridging this amp. Not sure what options they recommend. If you don have one, you can go to Bahn Tech and request a DL copy of same.
-EAD- on 10/16/2003 08:53:59
Swez, Thanks for the reply... and especially the advice on the sub and how to setup it and the amp. I will also definitly get a manual for the amp and check it out.
I read something that raised another question... actually two.
1) Will my cars alternator be enough to power the sub and not drain my battery? I read something that recommended changing the wiring to the battery from the alternator to 4 gauge instead of the stock 8 gauge... is this something I need to worry about?
2) I need to get an amp install kit... where should I go to buy one? Recommendations on what to get?
Swez on 10/16/2003 09:16:17
Yes, depending on what current this amp draws when you kick up the power, you may have some electrical shortages to deal with.
Write to Tech Service on this Bahn amp and find out how much current it will draw near peak output. Also, find out what size ALT and BAT you have now in that Saturn... then we can suggest some options to consider.
Also, yes... upgrading the power wire frm ALT/BAT and BAT/GND to #4 will help allow maximum current to flow to amp. The best quality wire kits I have seen are from: www.knukonceptz.com
High quality wires, RCA's and install hardware at very reasonable prices are available there.
Come back to us about your present ALT capacity and the CCA rating on your present battery... then we can make some recommendations on how to work all this out. You can call the Saturn dealer ora good auto parts store to determine the ALT output capacity. My guess... 65-85A output max and a 500 CCA battery are stock.
Please advise...
Swez
-EAD- on 10/16/2003 09:44:41
I'm requesting the information on the amp from Bahn right now.
The kits at knukonceptz seem very reasonable compared to what I've seen on other places on the internet...
I called the Saturn Dealership here in Houston and they told me the ALT is 90A and the battery is 500 CCA .
once again thanks for all your help.
-EAD- on 10/16/2003 11:57:42
Talked to Bahn the amp has 2 40 amp fuses so the Tech guy told me it will pull 80 amps max... and that I could have no problems (or if I did have light dimming I might need to add a 1/2 -1 farad cap? I'm clueless)
I'm no electrical Engineer but if my ALT puts out 90 and my amp takes up to 80 does that still leave 10 recharging the battery/runing the rest of the cars electrical system?
I read some of the articles on the site and applied the formula there and this is what I ended up with 75 watts X 6 channels= 450 total watts divided by 12 volts on the battery is 37.5.
90amps on the ALT times 40% (which I would guess would be the unused output of the ALT after the car electrical system) gives me 36. A difference of 1.5. (I'm not sure what the unit of the 1.5 is... amphere's maybe? not that I know what those are as oppossed to amps)
Best I can tell is that I'm cutting it close, definitly not sure what to do. This is where a little knowledge can be dangerous knowldge.
ttocs on 10/16/2003 17:47:39
You will be fine with that.
Don't think too much, just put it in. Use a descent 4 awg wire.
Swez on 10/16/2003 17:56:35
The 90 A alt will do the job and your amp will probably draw under 50A. most of the time. That leaves enough for the rest of the vehicle to operate.
Worst case, you may need to upgrade to a larger CCA rated battery. An 850 CCA BAT has enough storage capacity to equal more than 2,000,000 farads of CAPS.
Swez
-EAD- on 10/17/2003 00:06:45
Thanks for all of your help, I feel a whole lot more comfortable with this now. I should have realized the amp wasn't going to pull top wattage all the time, and its not like I'm building a system to make ears bleed... just really good sound!
I'm going to go with the audiobahn Components and the dual voice coil sub. I'll install those and then try with and w/o fill in the back.
I ordered a 4 gauge amp kit from knuekonceptz today... So it should get here next week along with my speakers and sub... I'm getting the amp this weekend. So I guess I need to figure out where I want to mount the tweeters and what kind of box to put the subs in.
So another question more specific to the install. I'm going to have to run speaker wire from the amp to the components in the front right. So I'm going to install the power cables along one side of the car and the RCA's along the other. What is the best way to run the speaker wire? Can I run the wire with the power cables? Or will that cause interference with the sound? I would imagine it would but I'm just checking. What other options are there?
Swez on 10/17/2003 23:49:02
Most guys do fine with running their Comp speaker lines along side the RCA lines. If you get too close to the power feed line, you may pick up unwanted noise to speakers.
The safest option, run your speaker leads up the middle of the vehicle and noise should not be an issue... just harder to do.
Swez
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