Hey guys I have a simple question. Will placing the crossovers that came with my component speakers in the trunk affect the sound. I'm thinking that maybe the distance involved could have an effect. Where are they usually placed in the trunk or in the doors.
And also does someone know a link illustrating how to install the tweeter that is supposed to go in the door or sailpanel.
and how do I get the window handle to come off
thanks
oh btw I'm talking about a 1990 honda civic four door
Replies (12)
compvr15s on 10/12/2003 13:50:12
most people place the crossovers close to the speakers just for the ease. if you put them in the trunk your going to have to run 8 extra wires the lenght of your vehicle, i dont think it matters if you place them in the trunk, but wait for swez or ttocs. there should be a clip behind the window crank. if you push your door pannel in a bit you should be able to find it. i have a handy lil tool that pops it right out, but im sure there are other ways to get it out, ttocs can probably help you here. good luck
Swez on 10/12/2003 14:04:39
Crossovers work best when they are mounted close to the speakers. You get more wire resistance with longer runs and inductance from the wires can also have a mild effect on the overall performance of the mid/highs as inductive loads tend to block highs.
If you have relatively short runs of 10' or less, these issues are minimal. But if you have a longer run... 16' or more, you may have some inductive loads that build up in that length of wire.
As for installing tweeters, most Comps come with install details that can explain your options. The main thing here, aim your tweets so they shoot upward toward the headliner near your head. Avoid "beaming" the tweeters right at your head as they can get pretty harsh or overly bright and sound out of balance with the rest of the system.
Maybe ttocs can help you on the doop panel removal issues... he's done many and is your best "go-to guy" on that one.
Swez
blacktallon2000 on 10/13/2003 20:00:40
ok. I've installed the front components in both doors. and also installed my new HU. it took me one whole day. Now I'm a little confused though. My HU only has one set of RCA preouts. What I did was put wirenuts on the factory wires inside the doors and run new wire to the trunk coming from the crossovers. But the thing is I'm planning to use two amps and since there's only one RCA preout is it OK for me to use a y splitter to send the signal to both amps. I'm planning to finish the install tommorow but do you guys think that two amps are too much or just right. one of them is a RF 550S power and the other is a RF punch 160.2 .I want to run two audiobahn 12's off of the 550 and power the other four speakers with the 160.2. Do you guys see anything wrong with that configuration.
Swez on 10/13/2003 20:51:35
There are several options you can choose:
1. Run a single pair of RCA line to the amps in back and use "Y" splitters to feed each amp input. If the present HU has more than 2.0 volts output... this is a good option.
2. If your present HU has less than 2.0 volts at the RCA outs, you can add an inline "line driver" signal processor (some have EQ too) to boost the HU signal and had multiple outputs for each amp.
These devices usually have 1-3 pair of RCA inputs and 2-3 pairs of outputs and will boost HU voltage so the amps are getting full input signal and eliminate potential noise issues.
If you want to go route #2, can do a search to help you find something suitable... just ask!
Swez
PS What HU are you using here now?
blacktallon2000 on 10/13/2003 22:02:41
It's a jvc kd-lx111 I believe. I threw out the box earlier so I'm not sure. it's the one with the kameleon faceplate. I believe it has a 4 volt preamp output so that should work right?
What about the subs and amps. I have two audiobahn aw1200 subs They are dual voice coil subs. So how should I wire them Into the amp. I have 5.25 components in the front doors for now, planning to add two more in the rear deck in the coming weeks so can I power those four speakers using the smaller 2 channel RF amp?
Swez on 10/14/2003 10:21:48
I checked the JVC website on that HU and very little detail is given on that RCA out. Check your manual for details on how to use it and what it can do. It looks like it may be a sub pre out... but not sure based on data on the web site.
RF Sub amp and sub wiring: 550 watts RMS @ 4 ohms MONO, 225 watts RMS @ 2 ohms in stereo You have 2 wiring options:
1. Wire each sub parallel for 2 ohms and then, 1 sub per channel
2. Can wire each sub for 8 ohms each (series) then bridge the amp and parallel both subs to get a 4 ohm load and full power in MONO mode
That Punch 160.2 is an older amp and I cannot find details off RF web site. Please contact RF Technical and see if you can get a manual and data sheet on that amp for power ratings.
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/customersupport/
Should be fine running up to 4 speakers (2 ohms/ch.) with this amp. Here, you can run LF & LR on 1 channel in parallel, same deal on other channel. You will not have fade control between F & R, but will get max power from the amp this way. Not sure how much power this amp can put out at 2 ohms per channel ???
Swez
blacktallon2000 on 10/14/2003 13:06:51
thanks a lot swez. Man your info helps a lot. I was myself eyeing that second option on the subs and now that you've confirmed it that's what I'll do.
The rca's in the back of the deck have a sticker that just says "rear". I don't think it's a sub output 'cause I bought it as a returned item. The previous buyer returned it because it didn't have a sub output. I guess they didn't know that it could work the subs anyway.
Now the RF 160.2 the ratings are:
DYNAMIC POWER RATING
per channel into a 2 ohm load 113wattsx2
per channel into a 4 ohm load 77wattsx2
CONTINUOUS POWER RATING
per channel with both channels driven into a 4 ohm load
40 watts x 2
per channel with both channels driven into a 2 ohm load
80 watts x 2
I'm going to use four 200 watt rms 4 ohm audiobahn speakers, so given the specs how can I wire them?
Today I ran the power wire cd, changer wire, and power remote wires. I didn't think installing was this much fun though. All I have left are the connections at the amps and wiring and installing the subs.
Now just to clear things up can you tell me if this illustration correctly show how I should wire my subs
http://www.jlaudio.com/tutorials/wiring/
I'm looking at the 2 DVC drivers with Voice Coils in Series / Parallel
illustration.
I know that I have to bridge my amp though right 'cause on the picture it shows it like only one channel being used.
Swez on 10/14/2003 19:18:53
The Punch 160.2 wiring:
1. Wire LF/LR in parallel for a 2 ohm load to the left amp channel
2. Wire RF/RR in parallel for a 2 ohm load to the right amp channel
This will give ~40 watts RMS to weach speaker, but you will have no fader control to balance F&R speaker stages. There is a way to do this with a passive variable resistor though. You may find the rear speakers will overpower the fronts. But for not, wire as mentioned and we can help you tweak later if needed.
As for the subs... yes, series parallel to a bridged amp as shown in the JL wiring diagram for a 4 ohm net load to amp. That'll work fine.
Also, use the RCA lineouts from the HU to power your sub only. This will allow you to use the rear fader control on HU to control sub output from the HU.
As for getting audio signals from HU to 160.2 amp... might be best to get and LOC (Line out convertor) and connect this to the front speaker line outputs at the HU. Then run a pair of RCA lines (L&R)from the LOC to your 160.2 amp. That's the cleanest and most efficient way to do this. The rear speaker outputs from this HU will not be used at this time.
Got the idea?
Swez
blacktallon2000 on 10/15/2003 02:08:32
Can I get those line out converters at radio shack or should I get them a litle more expensive.
Also I have not yet bought the speakers for the rear deck. What is better to get full range speakers or midbass drivers?
Once I get those the install will be finished.
One last thing, I hooked the 160.2 amp up to the rca's (just temporary) and was listening to the sound I was not satisfied with the way the music was getting to me. Would it be ok to install kickpanels AND still keep the component speakers in the doors?
I just noticed that My amp also has high level inputs. Can I use that instead of a line out converter or is it all the same thing. The one on the 160.2 amp clips into the amps and has two sets of wires coming out of it.
Swez on 10/15/2003 09:59:33
Yes, you can use the high signal inputs on that amp by just extending the front speaker wires to the amp. Noise rejection is not as good as using RCA/LOC, but it will work... just not as clean a signal.
As for kick panels & Comps in doors, most folks use one or the other but generally not both. You will have so much crossfire and audio cancellation using both, so it would be best to choose one or the other in front stage.
As for rear stage... it's a preference call on your part. Stock systems often use 6x9 midbass (MB) speakers in rear deck. In my experience, I took those out and added a nice set of full range 6x9's and it sound so much better all the way around. (midsized sedan) I got much more MB, good MR and good highs when I switched over. The ones I used had much more ouput than the stock versions with only the HU amps power them. The subs took care of the low end. Here's a look at the rear speakers I used: American Pro, VS1469C 4 WAY 6"X9" Look: http://www.justcarspeakers.com
"was listening to the sound I was not satisfied with the way the music was getting to me" Can you explain this a bit more?
Finally, the LOC's.... they convert HU voltages to RCA line levels (Ie: 15+volts/4-6 volts) Better LOC's have adjustable trimmers built in to increase/decrease voltage to amp inputs. Figure $15-20 for a good LOC.
Comments?
Swez
blacktallon2000 on 10/17/2003 13:11:40
OKAY I'M DONE GRIN CLAP GRIN
Thanks a lot SWEZ you helped me a lot with this project.
I bought the LOC and the sound really improved.
Those subs are great. I also put in bass blockers for the speakers.I bought a pair of lightning audio B1.65.2 speakers for the rear deck. And that's where my new problem starts. FROWN While installing I punched two holes in the rubber surround of one speaker with my screwdriver. The cone is not affected and the tears are kind of small. I'm afraid that in time they could get bigger though and affect SQ. What to do, What to do ?
Swez on 10/17/2003 19:41:11
Happens all the time! You can use silicone on the back side of the cone and dab and flatten the surround until the tear/hole is not visable. Then, let the silicone air cure over night and you should be fine.
This is a good fix for butyl rubber surrounds but not foam surrounds. Silicone can eat foam surrounds as they are not able to chemically resist silicone. Here, a latex based adhesive works best.
NOTE: Only use enough silicone to seal the holes... no more, no less. Just a small amount is all you need. A Q-Tip works well for an applicator tool.
Good luck,
Swez
PS Glad to hear you had such good success so far... the hole in cone trick happens all the time... you won't be the first nor last to have that happen.
And also does someone know a link illustrating how to install the tweeter that is supposed to go in the door or sailpanel.
and how do I get the window handle to come off
thanks
oh btw I'm talking about a 1990 honda civic four door
Replies (12)
compvr15s on 10/12/2003 13:50:12
most people place the crossovers close to the speakers just for the ease. if you put them in the trunk your going to have to run 8 extra wires the lenght of your vehicle, i dont think it matters if you place them in the trunk, but wait for swez or ttocs. there should be a clip behind the window crank. if you push your door pannel in a bit you should be able to find it. i have a handy lil tool that pops it right out, but im sure there are other ways to get it out, ttocs can probably help you here. good luck
Swez on 10/12/2003 14:04:39
Crossovers work best when they are mounted close to the speakers. You get more wire resistance with longer runs and inductance from the wires can also have a mild effect on the overall performance of the mid/highs as inductive loads tend to block highs.
If you have relatively short runs of 10' or less, these issues are minimal. But if you have a longer run... 16' or more, you may have some inductive loads that build up in that length of wire.
As for installing tweeters, most Comps come with install details that can explain your options. The main thing here, aim your tweets so they shoot upward toward the headliner near your head. Avoid "beaming" the tweeters right at your head as they can get pretty harsh or overly bright and sound out of balance with the rest of the system.
Maybe ttocs can help you on the doop panel removal issues... he's done many and is your best "go-to guy" on that one.
Swez
blacktallon2000 on 10/13/2003 20:00:40
ok. I've installed the front components in both doors. and also installed my new HU. it took me one whole day. Now I'm a little confused though. My HU only has one set of RCA preouts. What I did was put wirenuts on the factory wires inside the doors and run new wire to the trunk coming from the crossovers. But the thing is I'm planning to use two amps and since there's only one RCA preout is it OK for me to use a y splitter to send the signal to both amps. I'm planning to finish the install tommorow but do you guys think that two amps are too much or just right. one of them is a RF 550S power and the other is a RF punch 160.2 .I want to run two audiobahn 12's off of the 550 and power the other four speakers with the 160.2. Do you guys see anything wrong with that configuration.
Swez on 10/13/2003 20:51:35
There are several options you can choose:
1. Run a single pair of RCA line to the amps in back and use "Y" splitters to feed each amp input. If the present HU has more than 2.0 volts output... this is a good option.
2. If your present HU has less than 2.0 volts at the RCA outs, you can add an inline "line driver" signal processor (some have EQ too) to boost the HU signal and had multiple outputs for each amp.
These devices usually have 1-3 pair of RCA inputs and 2-3 pairs of outputs and will boost HU voltage so the amps are getting full input signal and eliminate potential noise issues.
If you want to go route #2, can do a search to help you find something suitable... just ask!
Swez
PS What HU are you using here now?
blacktallon2000 on 10/13/2003 22:02:41
It's a jvc kd-lx111 I believe. I threw out the box earlier so I'm not sure. it's the one with the kameleon faceplate. I believe it has a 4 volt preamp output so that should work right?
What about the subs and amps. I have two audiobahn aw1200 subs They are dual voice coil subs. So how should I wire them Into the amp. I have 5.25 components in the front doors for now, planning to add two more in the rear deck in the coming weeks so can I power those four speakers using the smaller 2 channel RF amp?
Swez on 10/14/2003 10:21:48
I checked the JVC website on that HU and very little detail is given on that RCA out. Check your manual for details on how to use it and what it can do. It looks like it may be a sub pre out... but not sure based on data on the web site.
RF Sub amp and sub wiring: 550 watts RMS @ 4 ohms MONO, 225 watts RMS @ 2 ohms in stereo You have 2 wiring options:
1. Wire each sub parallel for 2 ohms and then, 1 sub per channel
2. Can wire each sub for 8 ohms each (series) then bridge the amp and parallel both subs to get a 4 ohm load and full power in MONO mode
That Punch 160.2 is an older amp and I cannot find details off RF web site. Please contact RF Technical and see if you can get a manual and data sheet on that amp for power ratings.
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/customersupport/
Should be fine running up to 4 speakers (2 ohms/ch.) with this amp. Here, you can run LF & LR on 1 channel in parallel, same deal on other channel. You will not have fade control between F & R, but will get max power from the amp this way. Not sure how much power this amp can put out at 2 ohms per channel ???
Swez
blacktallon2000 on 10/14/2003 13:06:51
thanks a lot swez. Man your info helps a lot. I was myself eyeing that second option on the subs and now that you've confirmed it that's what I'll do.
The rca's in the back of the deck have a sticker that just says "rear". I don't think it's a sub output 'cause I bought it as a returned item. The previous buyer returned it because it didn't have a sub output. I guess they didn't know that it could work the subs anyway.
Now the RF 160.2 the ratings are:
DYNAMIC POWER RATING
per channel into a 2 ohm load 113wattsx2
per channel into a 4 ohm load 77wattsx2
CONTINUOUS POWER RATING
per channel with both channels driven into a 4 ohm load
40 watts x 2
per channel with both channels driven into a 2 ohm load
80 watts x 2
I'm going to use four 200 watt rms 4 ohm audiobahn speakers, so given the specs how can I wire them?
Today I ran the power wire cd, changer wire, and power remote wires. I didn't think installing was this much fun though. All I have left are the connections at the amps and wiring and installing the subs.
Now just to clear things up can you tell me if this illustration correctly show how I should wire my subs
http://www.jlaudio.com/tutorials/wiring/
I'm looking at the 2 DVC drivers with Voice Coils in Series / Parallel
illustration.
I know that I have to bridge my amp though right 'cause on the picture it shows it like only one channel being used.
Swez on 10/14/2003 19:18:53
The Punch 160.2 wiring:
1. Wire LF/LR in parallel for a 2 ohm load to the left amp channel
2. Wire RF/RR in parallel for a 2 ohm load to the right amp channel
This will give ~40 watts RMS to weach speaker, but you will have no fader control to balance F&R speaker stages. There is a way to do this with a passive variable resistor though. You may find the rear speakers will overpower the fronts. But for not, wire as mentioned and we can help you tweak later if needed.
As for the subs... yes, series parallel to a bridged amp as shown in the JL wiring diagram for a 4 ohm net load to amp. That'll work fine.
Also, use the RCA lineouts from the HU to power your sub only. This will allow you to use the rear fader control on HU to control sub output from the HU.
As for getting audio signals from HU to 160.2 amp... might be best to get and LOC (Line out convertor) and connect this to the front speaker line outputs at the HU. Then run a pair of RCA lines (L&R)from the LOC to your 160.2 amp. That's the cleanest and most efficient way to do this. The rear speaker outputs from this HU will not be used at this time.
Got the idea?
Swez
blacktallon2000 on 10/15/2003 02:08:32
Can I get those line out converters at radio shack or should I get them a litle more expensive.
Also I have not yet bought the speakers for the rear deck. What is better to get full range speakers or midbass drivers?
Once I get those the install will be finished.
One last thing, I hooked the 160.2 amp up to the rca's (just temporary) and was listening to the sound I was not satisfied with the way the music was getting to me. Would it be ok to install kickpanels AND still keep the component speakers in the doors?
I just noticed that My amp also has high level inputs. Can I use that instead of a line out converter or is it all the same thing. The one on the 160.2 amp clips into the amps and has two sets of wires coming out of it.
Swez on 10/15/2003 09:59:33
Yes, you can use the high signal inputs on that amp by just extending the front speaker wires to the amp. Noise rejection is not as good as using RCA/LOC, but it will work... just not as clean a signal.
As for kick panels & Comps in doors, most folks use one or the other but generally not both. You will have so much crossfire and audio cancellation using both, so it would be best to choose one or the other in front stage.
As for rear stage... it's a preference call on your part. Stock systems often use 6x9 midbass (MB) speakers in rear deck. In my experience, I took those out and added a nice set of full range 6x9's and it sound so much better all the way around. (midsized sedan) I got much more MB, good MR and good highs when I switched over. The ones I used had much more ouput than the stock versions with only the HU amps power them. The subs took care of the low end. Here's a look at the rear speakers I used: American Pro, VS1469C 4 WAY 6"X9" Look: http://www.justcarspeakers.com
"was listening to the sound I was not satisfied with the way the music was getting to me" Can you explain this a bit more?
Finally, the LOC's.... they convert HU voltages to RCA line levels (Ie: 15+volts/4-6 volts) Better LOC's have adjustable trimmers built in to increase/decrease voltage to amp inputs. Figure $15-20 for a good LOC.
Comments?
Swez
blacktallon2000 on 10/17/2003 13:11:40
OKAY I'M DONE GRIN CLAP GRIN
Thanks a lot SWEZ you helped me a lot with this project.
I bought the LOC and the sound really improved.
Those subs are great. I also put in bass blockers for the speakers.I bought a pair of lightning audio B1.65.2 speakers for the rear deck. And that's where my new problem starts. FROWN While installing I punched two holes in the rubber surround of one speaker with my screwdriver. The cone is not affected and the tears are kind of small. I'm afraid that in time they could get bigger though and affect SQ. What to do, What to do ?
Swez on 10/17/2003 19:41:11
Happens all the time! You can use silicone on the back side of the cone and dab and flatten the surround until the tear/hole is not visable. Then, let the silicone air cure over night and you should be fine.
This is a good fix for butyl rubber surrounds but not foam surrounds. Silicone can eat foam surrounds as they are not able to chemically resist silicone. Here, a latex based adhesive works best.
NOTE: Only use enough silicone to seal the holes... no more, no less. Just a small amount is all you need. A Q-Tip works well for an applicator tool.
Good luck,
Swez
PS Glad to hear you had such good success so far... the hole in cone trick happens all the time... you won't be the first nor last to have that happen.
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