I am a little confuse with the caps. I wanted to purchase a 2.0 farad cap from Absolute, but then I went into a audio store for advise and they told me that they wouldnt take a chance on buying a unknown brand. Later I say another Cap from Harrison Labs, but then I was afraid of making the purchase as well. I am looking for low prices, lets face it most of us are and thats what i liked about this two brands i found. Now should I stick by the known brands like monster cable, lightning audio, etc or i shouldnt worry about the brand at all? whats the huge difference?
Replies (10)
Tray on 09/24/2003 14:51:50
I'd say spend your money on a new battery. It'll help you more than a capacitor will.
Swez on 09/24/2003 20:24:53
Good call Tray... a larger battery (say 800 + CCA) is 2 million times more effective than a CAP and a whole lot cheaper too.
This will add a buffer of current storage (large battery) is like adding loads of RAM to your computer memory. This will help your amps and take some of the strain off your alternator as well.
What size amp(s) are you running now... sub amp especially and how much current can your ALT put out at full capacity?
Swez
chemaudio on 09/25/2003 10:40:54
Tray and Swez thanx alot for the Advise. I am not shure of my Alternator capacity, I did the formula the other day but i forget the number. Any ways Im not gonna run that much power, for the subs I have an Audiobahn A3201Q pushing 840x1 (bridged) at 4 ohms, then for speakers I have the 6 channel Audiobahn A6601Q pushing 210x2 and 75x2, and also a small Profile Clarus CL300 that i never used and i was like well might as well do something with it and since I had a couple of boston acoustics 2-way coaxials which I desided to lower them to 2ohms and now i have two 5.25 coaxials in each of my back doors. So anyways I come to a total of 1630 watts...the sub amp i still dont have (the A3201Q) but I am defenetly getting that one, I know Audiobahn A\B might not be the best amp for pushing subs but i like the match with my A6601Q.
Now with the battery, do i get a second battery for my car or i take the one I have out and just add a new bigger one? and which batteries would you recomend?
Swez on 09/25/2003 13:23:42
That A3201Q, 2 channel will draw pretty close to 100A at full power, but nominal current draw is more like 80A. The A6601Q, will pull between 55-60A at full power, but nominal will be more like 40A. So between them, are looking at a large current pull from both amps.
Mosts cars can operate well on 40-60A of current and have a reserve for add ons. If your present ALT is less than 100A rated, the electrical system will be very hard pressed to meet all amps power demand when you crank it up for a while... especially with headlights and A/C blower ect., on.
You need to have your present alternator output checked for capacity. This is often free at most good autoparts stores that have portable test equipment. They can check the ALT output and battery condition right in the bay or parking lot. My guess... you'll get readings between 75-85A from this ALT... not adeqauate for the amps you are planning on. You may need a major upgrade here to an ALT that can do 150A or higher. These are not cheap!
Stinger, Ohio Generator and a few other specialty makers may be needed for this upgrade or adding a 2nd larger alt and battery just for the audio gear may be a good solution... again, not easy or cheap to do.
As for a good battery... NAPA makes a series of batteries that are as good as Optima Red or Yellow, but for less $$$. If you only go for 1 battery, a Red Top with 1000 CCA rating will help a lot.
Comments?
Swez
PS You may want to look at Class D version sub amp as they draw much less power and can do lower ohmic loads without huge amperage draws. The A8001DT Amplifier - 800x1 @ 1ohm (watts RMS) may be very suitable here as it will draw ~60 Amps at max power and still deliver 800 RMS @ 1 ohm loads.
You may want to contact Bahn Technical for details on current demand for each amp noted.
AudiobahnConnections.com
chemaudio on 09/25/2003 15:15:31
oh boy....so a new and better battery, like the one you recomended me, wont be enought??. That was one thing i didnt wanted to change, the Alt. I am a foreign student here in the US and ill be here 2 more years till a graduate from college and go back to my country. My car is old (92) and is not worth to put alot of money on it, as long as it takes me from point A to point B and sounds good, that all i want. I mean the amps might not be the best ones, but the bass is good i have a JL HO210r-w3, its amazing how low that box can go, and then the HU DEX-P1R, 3-way 6x9 kappas on the back panel, and boston acustics on the back doors, CDT's thanks to you (coming in a couple of days)...plus dynamat xtreme on the whole car (from the floor to the roof,also coming next week). ANYWAYS!!! got a little out of track here, do u think I should change the alternator even with a new battery? I did a Hyper ground on the car and that gave me like some 0.4.V more on the amp, its just better electric flow, so what about if i keep the battery i have right now and add this NAPA too?
chemaudio on 09/27/2003 11:21:09
Is it legal to have a 2nd battery back on the trunk??
Swez on 09/27/2003 19:23:03
The main battery would have to be pretty large. At least 800 CCA rated. Even if you have a modest alternator, (75A) that size battery will definitely help. You may notice some light dimming when the engine is at low RPM and the subs are cranking... but if you installed #4 gage wires between ALT/BAT and BAT/GND. This will help maximize current flow to the system.
A 2nd battery in trunk is fine if you use a gel cell type design. They don't leak or outgass like lead-acid batteries. Just put the battery in a plastic storage container with a lid and strap it down well.
The Bahn amps are fine... but they may be a bit larger than you really need. There is not that much difference in overall SPL between a 600 and 840 watt amp... less than -1.5 dB but a lot less current draw too.
Think about scaling back on the sub amp a tad and use a Class D will also use less current, but still pack plenty of punch. That will still drive your JL's just fine.
Finally, do you really need a 6 channel full range amp? If you went for a 4 channel amp, 65-85 watts, can save some power draw here as well. The CDT's will take 90 RMS, but anything close to 75 RMS per channel is plenty.
There are ways to get around this issue w/o dropping a huge ALT in to the mix. THINK this one through carefully and we can guide you to options that will get results, save on power consumption and maybe save you some cash too.
Swez
chemaudio on 09/27/2003 21:26:06
1st of all I want to apreciate all the time and efford you have dedicated to help me and others on this site, It is really nice to find ppl with your knowledge passing it around to others so we can all learn. Ill go with a 800cca + battery in the beggining, if that doesnt work ill add a second one, the 4 gauge cable is a great idea, didnt thought about that one, i did a hyper ground on the engine, but never thought of changin the wire from the alt to the battery, smart move. With the amps I have the 6 channel already and kinda like it, but with the sub amp you are making me change my thoughts to D class...but that ill post on a different topic... Alright Swez looks like this is a closed case , thanks alot again for all that help man you are helping me tons here.
TA2MYRIDE on 09/27/2003 22:02:41
It is also good practice (in my opinion) to have both the batteries the same type and age for reliability. Some have told me it doesn't matter. I don't care.
Swez on 09/28/2003 08:04:38
You are most welcome Chem...
Since you already have the 6 channel amp, try it and see how things go. But for the sub amp, Go Class D as they are much more efficient than typical 2 channel amps.
Also, if you do go for a 2nd battery in trunk for your system, you want an isolator circuit that can choose which battery it will charge and when. It's like a special power distribution device.
Read this: http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/battiso.htm
Swez
Replies (10)
Tray on 09/24/2003 14:51:50
I'd say spend your money on a new battery. It'll help you more than a capacitor will.
Swez on 09/24/2003 20:24:53
Good call Tray... a larger battery (say 800 + CCA) is 2 million times more effective than a CAP and a whole lot cheaper too.
This will add a buffer of current storage (large battery) is like adding loads of RAM to your computer memory. This will help your amps and take some of the strain off your alternator as well.
What size amp(s) are you running now... sub amp especially and how much current can your ALT put out at full capacity?
Swez
chemaudio on 09/25/2003 10:40:54
Tray and Swez thanx alot for the Advise. I am not shure of my Alternator capacity, I did the formula the other day but i forget the number. Any ways Im not gonna run that much power, for the subs I have an Audiobahn A3201Q pushing 840x1 (bridged) at 4 ohms, then for speakers I have the 6 channel Audiobahn A6601Q pushing 210x2 and 75x2, and also a small Profile Clarus CL300 that i never used and i was like well might as well do something with it and since I had a couple of boston acoustics 2-way coaxials which I desided to lower them to 2ohms and now i have two 5.25 coaxials in each of my back doors. So anyways I come to a total of 1630 watts...the sub amp i still dont have (the A3201Q) but I am defenetly getting that one, I know Audiobahn A\B might not be the best amp for pushing subs but i like the match with my A6601Q.
Now with the battery, do i get a second battery for my car or i take the one I have out and just add a new bigger one? and which batteries would you recomend?
Swez on 09/25/2003 13:23:42
That A3201Q, 2 channel will draw pretty close to 100A at full power, but nominal current draw is more like 80A. The A6601Q, will pull between 55-60A at full power, but nominal will be more like 40A. So between them, are looking at a large current pull from both amps.
Mosts cars can operate well on 40-60A of current and have a reserve for add ons. If your present ALT is less than 100A rated, the electrical system will be very hard pressed to meet all amps power demand when you crank it up for a while... especially with headlights and A/C blower ect., on.
You need to have your present alternator output checked for capacity. This is often free at most good autoparts stores that have portable test equipment. They can check the ALT output and battery condition right in the bay or parking lot. My guess... you'll get readings between 75-85A from this ALT... not adeqauate for the amps you are planning on. You may need a major upgrade here to an ALT that can do 150A or higher. These are not cheap!
Stinger, Ohio Generator and a few other specialty makers may be needed for this upgrade or adding a 2nd larger alt and battery just for the audio gear may be a good solution... again, not easy or cheap to do.
As for a good battery... NAPA makes a series of batteries that are as good as Optima Red or Yellow, but for less $$$. If you only go for 1 battery, a Red Top with 1000 CCA rating will help a lot.
Comments?
Swez
PS You may want to look at Class D version sub amp as they draw much less power and can do lower ohmic loads without huge amperage draws. The A8001DT Amplifier - 800x1 @ 1ohm (watts RMS) may be very suitable here as it will draw ~60 Amps at max power and still deliver 800 RMS @ 1 ohm loads.
You may want to contact Bahn Technical for details on current demand for each amp noted.
AudiobahnConnections.com
chemaudio on 09/25/2003 15:15:31
oh boy....so a new and better battery, like the one you recomended me, wont be enought??. That was one thing i didnt wanted to change, the Alt. I am a foreign student here in the US and ill be here 2 more years till a graduate from college and go back to my country. My car is old (92) and is not worth to put alot of money on it, as long as it takes me from point A to point B and sounds good, that all i want. I mean the amps might not be the best ones, but the bass is good i have a JL HO210r-w3, its amazing how low that box can go, and then the HU DEX-P1R, 3-way 6x9 kappas on the back panel, and boston acustics on the back doors, CDT's thanks to you (coming in a couple of days)...plus dynamat xtreme on the whole car (from the floor to the roof,also coming next week). ANYWAYS!!! got a little out of track here, do u think I should change the alternator even with a new battery? I did a Hyper ground on the car and that gave me like some 0.4.V more on the amp, its just better electric flow, so what about if i keep the battery i have right now and add this NAPA too?
chemaudio on 09/27/2003 11:21:09
Is it legal to have a 2nd battery back on the trunk??
Swez on 09/27/2003 19:23:03
The main battery would have to be pretty large. At least 800 CCA rated. Even if you have a modest alternator, (75A) that size battery will definitely help. You may notice some light dimming when the engine is at low RPM and the subs are cranking... but if you installed #4 gage wires between ALT/BAT and BAT/GND. This will help maximize current flow to the system.
A 2nd battery in trunk is fine if you use a gel cell type design. They don't leak or outgass like lead-acid batteries. Just put the battery in a plastic storage container with a lid and strap it down well.
The Bahn amps are fine... but they may be a bit larger than you really need. There is not that much difference in overall SPL between a 600 and 840 watt amp... less than -1.5 dB but a lot less current draw too.
Think about scaling back on the sub amp a tad and use a Class D will also use less current, but still pack plenty of punch. That will still drive your JL's just fine.
Finally, do you really need a 6 channel full range amp? If you went for a 4 channel amp, 65-85 watts, can save some power draw here as well. The CDT's will take 90 RMS, but anything close to 75 RMS per channel is plenty.
There are ways to get around this issue w/o dropping a huge ALT in to the mix. THINK this one through carefully and we can guide you to options that will get results, save on power consumption and maybe save you some cash too.
Swez
chemaudio on 09/27/2003 21:26:06
1st of all I want to apreciate all the time and efford you have dedicated to help me and others on this site, It is really nice to find ppl with your knowledge passing it around to others so we can all learn. Ill go with a 800cca + battery in the beggining, if that doesnt work ill add a second one, the 4 gauge cable is a great idea, didnt thought about that one, i did a hyper ground on the engine, but never thought of changin the wire from the alt to the battery, smart move. With the amps I have the 6 channel already and kinda like it, but with the sub amp you are making me change my thoughts to D class...but that ill post on a different topic... Alright Swez looks like this is a closed case , thanks alot again for all that help man you are helping me tons here.
TA2MYRIDE on 09/27/2003 22:02:41
It is also good practice (in my opinion) to have both the batteries the same type and age for reliability. Some have told me it doesn't matter. I don't care.
Swez on 09/28/2003 08:04:38
You are most welcome Chem...
Since you already have the 6 channel amp, try it and see how things go. But for the sub amp, Go Class D as they are much more efficient than typical 2 channel amps.
Also, if you do go for a 2nd battery in trunk for your system, you want an isolator circuit that can choose which battery it will charge and when. It's like a special power distribution device.
Read this: http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/battiso.htm
Swez
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