Hey Guys, I have been using old 8 ga and 10 ga power cable for speaker wire for my subs. Is this a good idea? I got a vented box with 2--P310D4 (400wRMS each) in it. I took them out and the 12 gauge wires were on and some were hanging by 1 thread and one wasn't even hooked up all the way. I didn't test these first and I am glad I didn't because of what I saw when I took out the subs. I am going to rewire these with 8 Ga power cable my way ( I like to do stuff to make sure it is right and last) The specs say the hook-ups are made for 8 ga. Anyway, I plan on running these at 2ohm x 2 channels at 200 watts RMS each. At that impedance they should be thump'n. (setting my HU Low Range LPF at 80 to 100 hz @ 12 dB/Oct.) to act as the active low-pass crossover.) I know it's supposed to go between the amplifier and speaker, but I was thinking this HU setting might work also. (advice) Plus the Amp has mega settings also. I changed my amp order to MTX THUNDER 7402. (we can set up the INPUT SENS (it is going to be x1), GAIN, EQ BOOST, EQ FREQ, ARC, X-OVER, HPF slope 12dB/Oct, LPF slope 24dB/Oct) when it gets here. But, I also have been studying up on these things and have all the charts and stuff already to look at. It looks like I will pobably be using the P3's more than the MTX RT4510X3A (600wRMS @ 4 Ohm)
remarks an advice please,,,marlon
Replies (17)
swez on 09/10/2009 15:24:24
About #12 gage wire, it's rated for 2000 watts + power handling in short runs. Since audio signals are AC voltage, and not DC like power wires from the BAT to amp inputs, #12 is fine for most sub systems in that range.
If your HU has a LPF network, use it as this helps the HU work less hard to put out clean full range music to the rest of the system. Even better, if the HU has a sub output volumn control function, setting that at midpoint, (2 volts or so) will also help to the HU internal power supply. We can make that up with ease on the amp gain settings.
As for subs, you will likely find the RF P3's to be somewhat more capable in power handling over the MTX subs mentioned. The MTX subs are like 12 ohm SVC's and in full parallel, we het a net 4 ohms to the amp. That's fine for bridged 2 channel amps, but these are Class A/B amps and draw more power from the system to produce less wattage then the more efficient Class D amps now commonly used for subs. (1-2 ohms stable and most output to the sub(s) as well.
Finally, when using ported boxes, it's wise to use a Subsonic/Infrasonic filter to block lows below the port tuned frequencies. This eliminates potential damage to the woofers that otherwise may see signals below 30 Hz. The slope of the filter is at min, -12dB/octave. A higher slope is even better.
Comments?
Swez
fmarlon on 09/10/2009 20:25:14
I have 3 different kinds of 12 ga speaker wire, I'll use that for the subs from now on.
The HU LPF cut-off frequency (1/3 octave steps) can be set to 20Hz up to 200Hz and the slope can be set from flat,-6,-12.-18,-24 dB/Octave and at a power level from 0 to -12db. Maximum Pre-Output Voltage: 4V/10 k ohms. The Amp instructions say to use its X1 POSITION: 100mV-1V. To ease the HU. The HU can be set for 2-way, or 3-way mode also. (I am not including the HPF in this comment).
I will probably not even be using the MTX subs at all, just to test 'em maybe. I'll be loading the P3's at 2 ohms/2 ch. at 200sRMS ea channel. I know that's only half the power the P3 can take, but it should be ok for now and enough for me. (big smile) The P3's Frequency Response is 20 -200Hz. The amps LPF Variable X-over Frequency Controls start at 40Hz to 350Hz sending 20Hz to 40Hz and then start to taper down as the freq's go over 40Hz (24dB/octave roll off) if set all the way to the left at 40Hz. We will still have the Bass EQ and the Quasi Parametric EQ: Boost/Cut +/-12dB,Freq. 30Hz-80Hz to play with, and the ARC: Cut 0-15dB, Freq, 200Hz. for low mounted front speakers.
Rockford Fosgate recommends using an active 80-100Hz low-pass crossover at 12dB/octave betweent the amp and subs. Even with all these possible settings, I still need that? Is this the same thing as a Subsonic/Infrasonic filter that you are talking about? Or is it just a lower Hz low-pass crossover?
comments please. marlon
swez on 09/11/2009 03:24:29
Marlon,
Very good details on this grouping of gear in the plan. The HU and amp mentioned have plenty of great features to control bass performance.
In most cases, we set the LPF to about 80-100 Hz for sub applications. That allows the frequencies below 100 Hz., to pass only to the sub amp and subs. We can tailor the bass response with EQ and the Bass Boost feature. Use the BB feature sparingly as a little boost goes a long way. (+6 dB boost is usually enough)
In sealed sub enclosures, we do not need an infrasonic/subsonic filter as the box dampens the deep bass below ~ 40 Hz in a very smooth and predictable manner. However, when tuned porting is employed, and the tuning frequency is down near 30 Hz, it's wise to use IFS/SSF blocking filters.
This ISF/ SSF filter is actually a narrow band HP filter that blocks subsonic dB's below the port tuned frequency to protect the subs from harmful energy they cannot handle. (Cones do not move much below the tuning point and do not produce sound, but more heat) That's what often kills a good sub.
It may not be a big issue at these moderate power ratings, (And beefy subs) but when pumping Kilowatts to ported subs, it's very important to block frequencies below the port tuning limits. (-12/-24dB/octave filters are commonly used here)
Example: Say your box is port tuned to a range of 30 Hz. We want to attenuate signals below 30 Hz. There's little music content at 30 Hz, but more sonic energy/vibration we feel in the body. (THX movies and DVD's use this for sonic effects like earthquakes, volcanos and similar ULF tracks) It's not musical at all. But adds a new dimension of low end rumble we feel more than hear. Does that make sense to you?
In most music cuts available today, there are very few audible notes below about 32 Hz. (Cathedral Pipe Organs, full scale piano or synthisized bass tones can/will) But most music is limited to about 36-40 Hz., and limited LF harmonics are also part of the package.
Rap music often uses ULF tones for affect, but they tend to be very "juiced up" and not musical as much as "feel the beat" type scenarios.
Does this make sense to your plans?
Swez
fmarlon on 09/11/2009 14:56:35
Oh yes, certainly, I'm getting a clearer picture of what your talking about now. Uhmm (Big Smile).
ISF/SSF filter? Will I still need that between the Amp and Subs? What filter do you actually recommend for me? Thank You for your advice, very much....
I was using the low 40Hz setting as an example. diymobilaudio.com forum: surveyed "what low-pass frequency do you use? 346 folks answered (so did I, various, but learning) lots at 80Hz, majority: lower than 80Hz. This is where I'll probably start at, then ear tune my subs till I like what I hear, eventually. I usually listen to rock, but when my little neices (19 + 21) are with me they love r&b and rap and stuff. (I think because they like the bump in the back of my rig too).
marlon
swez on 09/11/2009 23:55:03
This will take some serious "splain there Lucy" The main thing is knowing the port tuning frequency of sub enclosure used. If we know that, then selecting the correct SSI/ISF is much easier to do. That means knowing the internal air space if the box, (Fb) and the port area of the box as well.
Most Rock music is best between 40-80 Hz. Rap and HH can go lower and the port area and Fb have to be calculated to figure out the right ISF filter range and slope.
Do you know the overall dimensions of the box, sub and port displacement values? If yes, we can determine an adequate ISF to use between the HU and your sub amp. If not known, we'll have to go a biy more consevative with the ISF filter range used and it's slope.
Swez
fmarlon on 09/12/2009 02:44:32
I'll work on the measurements and get them for you. This doesn't have to be a big project. Is it ok if I just end up getting something not too $ that will do the job you are trying to help me with? My head hurts already. I will try though. ty
marlon
swez on 09/12/2009 09:35:32
Actually, most Class D sub amps have ISF's in them already. Some 2 channels do too, if they were designed mainly for bass applications.
Let's simplify the whole matter and assume the box is tuned between 36-40 Hz. That's a pretty common range for the daily driver. Knowing that, we can come up with an inexpensive set of inline ISF filter modules that will give a -12dB/oct slope. These should do the job: ($30.00 a pair)
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-270
Swez
fmarlon on 09/12/2009 15:06:05
HEY, parts express is were I stated this whole hobby at 8 years ago, been browsing ever since. A lot better now!! But still a rookie. (SMILE) I did do the math last night, but it doesn't seem to be too close according to the RF theile thing chart and refs. We can probably just move on for now. ty.. I found some awesome info at: the12volt.comCar Audio/Passive Crossovers, Capacitors & Coil Calculator. Plus refs and graphs. Just put the numbers in. Has sub enclosures calculators, just about everything automatic you can use for this hobby. Awesome. please check it out.
Getting the picture now, Lots of: induced mind pressure (IMP) , just made that up, hehe....Hey, thanks for your time ,,so much...
marlon
swez on 09/12/2009 23:01:28
Hehe, if you go with the HiFonics Bxi-1210D the SSF/INF is already there and variable to your needs. I believe the Brutus uses a -24dB slope and that's a lot better than power wasting passives. If you went passive, expect to lose almost 2dB of power in the process.
That's fine for Home Theater and Por Sound monitors, but for mobile sound, a built in SSF is a very good option.
Swez
fmarlon on 09/14/2009 12:48:09
Oh man, guess what, I had cancelled this certain order I made Aug 14, 2009 and I guess he is finally shipping it this week, after a whole month and after I called and cancelled it and officially emailed and cancelled it and requested a refund of that order. Well, it's that Kenwood KAC-9104D Class D Mono Block: 500wrms @ 4 Ohms, 900wrms @ 2 Ohms, _ 900wrms @ 1 Ohm with the ISF=off,15Hz,25Hz. Phase, b boost, LPF, Input Sensitivity, Fuse: 30amp x 2. I guess I should be grateful....
car audio and electronics did a product review on it and it falls short at 2 ohms (644wrms @ 14.4V), and they didn't even do the 1 ohm tests. But most of the other things seem to be fine. Max draw 68amps.
Sad news is , some reviews I have read say it shuts off at 1 ohm loads after bouts of low bass. Most of these guys upgraded their alts or bats and/or power cables, or put in a cap and say it solves that problem.
Some others say they have never had a shut off at all.
That's why I cancelled and tried to get that MTX X1000 $249.00 mono D block,,700wrms @ 4 Ohms and 1000wrms @ 2 ohms, a little too much power but I like MTX. Then I would a good 15" later on for it.
I really wanted the MTX TA 7402 2ch. 600wrms bridged X 1ch @ 2 Ohms. Other ways also. $209.00, Out of stock, tried for almost a month getting this one. At two sites. I know they were discontinued last year, but are still available here and there. I was going to get another one later and strap em anyway.
Or TWO-- MTX XThunder 702X , 2ch class D, $99.00 not too good.
and even some other Kenwoods, Excelon series: X20 a 2 ch. or X10 a good Class D mono Block, kind of wanted this one also, good featurs and stable at 1 Ohm.
I was going to get that Hifoncis BXI 1210D next month. Since you informed me about how good it is instead all these other choices.
Well, now I'll have to take the Kenwood KAC9104D, and the 2 ga amp installation kit that I had ordered with it last month, instead of going through a big hassell trying to recover $209.97 ....(SAD)
Anyway, life goes onward. I will do the best I can with it and hope for the best now.
marlon
swez on 09/14/2009 22:05:54
If the vendor has a decent return policy, take that option and get your money back. There are ways to fight a bad deal and one is to halt payment on something you really cannot use.
The KAC 9104 is over rated on power and is fine for smaller systems. (Meaning... it does not meet power specs as rated) The worst case scenario, stop payment and return the amp unopened with an RMA # from the seller. If you used a CC or Pay Pal, they can step in to help your case. It's harder if a check or money order was used to purchase this gear. Here, selling it on e-bay or Craig's list is an option, but you may not break even after shipping and handling and other fees.
Good luck,
Swez
fmarlon on 09/15/2009 09:58:34
I used a MO, I have filled it out and need to make copies of it and the cash receipt and mail it off. It cost $15.00 (non refundable) to get Western Union to get back money from a cashed MO in about 30 days or so. I still haven't seen any movement on the tracking # of the items.
marlon
swez on 09/15/2009 16:04:23
This may sound strange... but pray about the matter for a few days and watch what happens when the big guns step in. If the vendor is legit, you'll be OK in the end. If he's a jerk about it, oh boy... he's gonna be sorry later.
Besides all that, you have endured a lot of trials and adversity in life already. Am slowly learning to do what I can and turn the heavy stuff over in prayer. It's working too! I had no idea how much grace is available when we are at our ropes end. Try it and see.
Swez ><>
fmarlon on 09/15/2009 20:45:26
Oh yes, It always helps.
I removed the metal sheets and reinstalled the two amps I have now on the particle board today. And removed the two 8 ga runs to the amps and replaced with a single 4 ga with a 60amp fuse up 1' from the bat. and a fused dist. block (30a +30a)also mounted to the board in the back to two short 8 ga runs to each amp and new short grounds to the custom grounding plate I made. It looks a lot cleaner and has room for 1 more amp and a cap it I decide to add that or think I need one (cap that is).
A little question: I see pics of trunks and rear compartments with the subs facing back or each other all the time, and they look nice. Are my subs supposed to face backward to reflect the waves off the back of my rig?
I have always had them face forward into the back of the rear seat....Just wondering... input and advise always helpful. Thanks
marlon.
fmarlon on 09/22/2009 14:31:35
After hooking up the Kenwood KAC-9104D to the vented box with the 2 10" DVC 4 Ohm P310D4 and making a few adjustments to the amp then the HU, It just didn't sound right. I never turned them up or listened to even one song. About midnight I decided to pull the speakers out of the Tahoe and bring them in and have a look at the wiring, so I got up out of bed and did that.
I have them wired down to two ohms each then to one ohm to the amp. The wiring was ok, but I did notice that one of the cones movement was really easy compared to the other sub. Removed from the box, turned it over and inspected it, half of the spider is unglued or disconnected from the top of the former, I can see the voice coil inside. I bought them used so I know they were never tested or inspected before. I never even thought or knew what to look for myself, until I was about asleep and got up to do it. But, now I know the hazzards of buying used and what I paid for them at least pays for the good one and the box. I hope the other one is fixable and might last for a while.
Expoxy or super glue and an activator? I am still contemplating which to use? I have read your "repair spider article" and am about ready to go to Loew's. Is there any particular type that you recommend? I know you said the kind that mixes with one plunger. Well, I'll see what's out there and let you know what's next.
marlon
swez on 09/22/2009 22:26:01
Marlon,
A high temp Epoxy type adhesive will do the job here. When the former separates from the spider, it's often due to age and abused before you got the subs. (Wrong box size, too much Bass Boost or too much power)
The epoxy adhesive should work if this joint has failed. But you have to mix the epoxy, then load it into a syringe and then glue the former to the spider and use a hair dryer to cure the joint and than allow it to harden. (Heat accelerates the curing process and lowers viscosity of the epoxy to allow it to flow into the separation) It's a tedious task, (Alignment to match the original glue lines) but after doing a few of these, it seems to work out well and get the sub working properly and usable for a while.
Do not use superglue here as it's too brittle and wil fracture again later.
Comprend all that?
Swez
fmarlon on 09/23/2009 01:56:47
Of course. thanks
But, either way, I don't expect too much from it.
remarks an advice please,,,marlon
Replies (17)
swez on 09/10/2009 15:24:24
About #12 gage wire, it's rated for 2000 watts + power handling in short runs. Since audio signals are AC voltage, and not DC like power wires from the BAT to amp inputs, #12 is fine for most sub systems in that range.
If your HU has a LPF network, use it as this helps the HU work less hard to put out clean full range music to the rest of the system. Even better, if the HU has a sub output volumn control function, setting that at midpoint, (2 volts or so) will also help to the HU internal power supply. We can make that up with ease on the amp gain settings.
As for subs, you will likely find the RF P3's to be somewhat more capable in power handling over the MTX subs mentioned. The MTX subs are like 12 ohm SVC's and in full parallel, we het a net 4 ohms to the amp. That's fine for bridged 2 channel amps, but these are Class A/B amps and draw more power from the system to produce less wattage then the more efficient Class D amps now commonly used for subs. (1-2 ohms stable and most output to the sub(s) as well.
Finally, when using ported boxes, it's wise to use a Subsonic/Infrasonic filter to block lows below the port tuned frequencies. This eliminates potential damage to the woofers that otherwise may see signals below 30 Hz. The slope of the filter is at min, -12dB/octave. A higher slope is even better.
Comments?
Swez
fmarlon on 09/10/2009 20:25:14
I have 3 different kinds of 12 ga speaker wire, I'll use that for the subs from now on.
The HU LPF cut-off frequency (1/3 octave steps) can be set to 20Hz up to 200Hz and the slope can be set from flat,-6,-12.-18,-24 dB/Octave and at a power level from 0 to -12db. Maximum Pre-Output Voltage: 4V/10 k ohms. The Amp instructions say to use its X1 POSITION: 100mV-1V. To ease the HU. The HU can be set for 2-way, or 3-way mode also. (I am not including the HPF in this comment).
I will probably not even be using the MTX subs at all, just to test 'em maybe. I'll be loading the P3's at 2 ohms/2 ch. at 200sRMS ea channel. I know that's only half the power the P3 can take, but it should be ok for now and enough for me. (big smile) The P3's Frequency Response is 20 -200Hz. The amps LPF Variable X-over Frequency Controls start at 40Hz to 350Hz sending 20Hz to 40Hz and then start to taper down as the freq's go over 40Hz (24dB/octave roll off) if set all the way to the left at 40Hz. We will still have the Bass EQ and the Quasi Parametric EQ: Boost/Cut +/-12dB,Freq. 30Hz-80Hz to play with, and the ARC: Cut 0-15dB, Freq, 200Hz. for low mounted front speakers.
Rockford Fosgate recommends using an active 80-100Hz low-pass crossover at 12dB/octave betweent the amp and subs. Even with all these possible settings, I still need that? Is this the same thing as a Subsonic/Infrasonic filter that you are talking about? Or is it just a lower Hz low-pass crossover?
comments please. marlon
swez on 09/11/2009 03:24:29
Marlon,
Very good details on this grouping of gear in the plan. The HU and amp mentioned have plenty of great features to control bass performance.
In most cases, we set the LPF to about 80-100 Hz for sub applications. That allows the frequencies below 100 Hz., to pass only to the sub amp and subs. We can tailor the bass response with EQ and the Bass Boost feature. Use the BB feature sparingly as a little boost goes a long way. (+6 dB boost is usually enough)
In sealed sub enclosures, we do not need an infrasonic/subsonic filter as the box dampens the deep bass below ~ 40 Hz in a very smooth and predictable manner. However, when tuned porting is employed, and the tuning frequency is down near 30 Hz, it's wise to use IFS/SSF blocking filters.
This ISF/ SSF filter is actually a narrow band HP filter that blocks subsonic dB's below the port tuned frequency to protect the subs from harmful energy they cannot handle. (Cones do not move much below the tuning point and do not produce sound, but more heat) That's what often kills a good sub.
It may not be a big issue at these moderate power ratings, (And beefy subs) but when pumping Kilowatts to ported subs, it's very important to block frequencies below the port tuning limits. (-12/-24dB/octave filters are commonly used here)
Example: Say your box is port tuned to a range of 30 Hz. We want to attenuate signals below 30 Hz. There's little music content at 30 Hz, but more sonic energy/vibration we feel in the body. (THX movies and DVD's use this for sonic effects like earthquakes, volcanos and similar ULF tracks) It's not musical at all. But adds a new dimension of low end rumble we feel more than hear. Does that make sense to you?
In most music cuts available today, there are very few audible notes below about 32 Hz. (Cathedral Pipe Organs, full scale piano or synthisized bass tones can/will) But most music is limited to about 36-40 Hz., and limited LF harmonics are also part of the package.
Rap music often uses ULF tones for affect, but they tend to be very "juiced up" and not musical as much as "feel the beat" type scenarios.
Does this make sense to your plans?
Swez
fmarlon on 09/11/2009 14:56:35
Oh yes, certainly, I'm getting a clearer picture of what your talking about now. Uhmm (Big Smile).
ISF/SSF filter? Will I still need that between the Amp and Subs? What filter do you actually recommend for me? Thank You for your advice, very much....
I was using the low 40Hz setting as an example. diymobilaudio.com forum: surveyed "what low-pass frequency do you use? 346 folks answered (so did I, various, but learning) lots at 80Hz, majority: lower than 80Hz. This is where I'll probably start at, then ear tune my subs till I like what I hear, eventually. I usually listen to rock, but when my little neices (19 + 21) are with me they love r&b and rap and stuff. (I think because they like the bump in the back of my rig too).
marlon
swez on 09/11/2009 23:55:03
This will take some serious "splain there Lucy" The main thing is knowing the port tuning frequency of sub enclosure used. If we know that, then selecting the correct SSI/ISF is much easier to do. That means knowing the internal air space if the box, (Fb) and the port area of the box as well.
Most Rock music is best between 40-80 Hz. Rap and HH can go lower and the port area and Fb have to be calculated to figure out the right ISF filter range and slope.
Do you know the overall dimensions of the box, sub and port displacement values? If yes, we can determine an adequate ISF to use between the HU and your sub amp. If not known, we'll have to go a biy more consevative with the ISF filter range used and it's slope.
Swez
fmarlon on 09/12/2009 02:44:32
I'll work on the measurements and get them for you. This doesn't have to be a big project. Is it ok if I just end up getting something not too $ that will do the job you are trying to help me with? My head hurts already. I will try though. ty
marlon
swez on 09/12/2009 09:35:32
Actually, most Class D sub amps have ISF's in them already. Some 2 channels do too, if they were designed mainly for bass applications.
Let's simplify the whole matter and assume the box is tuned between 36-40 Hz. That's a pretty common range for the daily driver. Knowing that, we can come up with an inexpensive set of inline ISF filter modules that will give a -12dB/oct slope. These should do the job: ($30.00 a pair)
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-270
Swez
fmarlon on 09/12/2009 15:06:05
HEY, parts express is were I stated this whole hobby at 8 years ago, been browsing ever since. A lot better now!! But still a rookie. (SMILE) I did do the math last night, but it doesn't seem to be too close according to the RF theile thing chart and refs. We can probably just move on for now. ty.. I found some awesome info at: the12volt.comCar Audio/Passive Crossovers, Capacitors & Coil Calculator. Plus refs and graphs. Just put the numbers in. Has sub enclosures calculators, just about everything automatic you can use for this hobby. Awesome. please check it out.
Getting the picture now, Lots of: induced mind pressure (IMP) , just made that up, hehe....Hey, thanks for your time ,,so much...
marlon
swez on 09/12/2009 23:01:28
Hehe, if you go with the HiFonics Bxi-1210D the SSF/INF is already there and variable to your needs. I believe the Brutus uses a -24dB slope and that's a lot better than power wasting passives. If you went passive, expect to lose almost 2dB of power in the process.
That's fine for Home Theater and Por Sound monitors, but for mobile sound, a built in SSF is a very good option.
Swez
fmarlon on 09/14/2009 12:48:09
Oh man, guess what, I had cancelled this certain order I made Aug 14, 2009 and I guess he is finally shipping it this week, after a whole month and after I called and cancelled it and officially emailed and cancelled it and requested a refund of that order. Well, it's that Kenwood KAC-9104D Class D Mono Block: 500wrms @ 4 Ohms, 900wrms @ 2 Ohms, _ 900wrms @ 1 Ohm with the ISF=off,15Hz,25Hz. Phase, b boost, LPF, Input Sensitivity, Fuse: 30amp x 2. I guess I should be grateful....
car audio and electronics did a product review on it and it falls short at 2 ohms (644wrms @ 14.4V), and they didn't even do the 1 ohm tests. But most of the other things seem to be fine. Max draw 68amps.
Sad news is , some reviews I have read say it shuts off at 1 ohm loads after bouts of low bass. Most of these guys upgraded their alts or bats and/or power cables, or put in a cap and say it solves that problem.
Some others say they have never had a shut off at all.
That's why I cancelled and tried to get that MTX X1000 $249.00 mono D block,,700wrms @ 4 Ohms and 1000wrms @ 2 ohms, a little too much power but I like MTX. Then I would a good 15" later on for it.
I really wanted the MTX TA 7402 2ch. 600wrms bridged X 1ch @ 2 Ohms. Other ways also. $209.00, Out of stock, tried for almost a month getting this one. At two sites. I know they were discontinued last year, but are still available here and there. I was going to get another one later and strap em anyway.
Or TWO-- MTX XThunder 702X , 2ch class D, $99.00 not too good.
and even some other Kenwoods, Excelon series: X20 a 2 ch. or X10 a good Class D mono Block, kind of wanted this one also, good featurs and stable at 1 Ohm.
I was going to get that Hifoncis BXI 1210D next month. Since you informed me about how good it is instead all these other choices.
Well, now I'll have to take the Kenwood KAC9104D, and the 2 ga amp installation kit that I had ordered with it last month, instead of going through a big hassell trying to recover $209.97 ....(SAD)
Anyway, life goes onward. I will do the best I can with it and hope for the best now.
marlon
swez on 09/14/2009 22:05:54
If the vendor has a decent return policy, take that option and get your money back. There are ways to fight a bad deal and one is to halt payment on something you really cannot use.
The KAC 9104 is over rated on power and is fine for smaller systems. (Meaning... it does not meet power specs as rated) The worst case scenario, stop payment and return the amp unopened with an RMA # from the seller. If you used a CC or Pay Pal, they can step in to help your case. It's harder if a check or money order was used to purchase this gear. Here, selling it on e-bay or Craig's list is an option, but you may not break even after shipping and handling and other fees.
Good luck,
Swez
fmarlon on 09/15/2009 09:58:34
I used a MO, I have filled it out and need to make copies of it and the cash receipt and mail it off. It cost $15.00 (non refundable) to get Western Union to get back money from a cashed MO in about 30 days or so. I still haven't seen any movement on the tracking # of the items.
marlon
swez on 09/15/2009 16:04:23
This may sound strange... but pray about the matter for a few days and watch what happens when the big guns step in. If the vendor is legit, you'll be OK in the end. If he's a jerk about it, oh boy... he's gonna be sorry later.
Besides all that, you have endured a lot of trials and adversity in life already. Am slowly learning to do what I can and turn the heavy stuff over in prayer. It's working too! I had no idea how much grace is available when we are at our ropes end. Try it and see.
Swez ><>
fmarlon on 09/15/2009 20:45:26
Oh yes, It always helps.
I removed the metal sheets and reinstalled the two amps I have now on the particle board today. And removed the two 8 ga runs to the amps and replaced with a single 4 ga with a 60amp fuse up 1' from the bat. and a fused dist. block (30a +30a)also mounted to the board in the back to two short 8 ga runs to each amp and new short grounds to the custom grounding plate I made. It looks a lot cleaner and has room for 1 more amp and a cap it I decide to add that or think I need one (cap that is).
A little question: I see pics of trunks and rear compartments with the subs facing back or each other all the time, and they look nice. Are my subs supposed to face backward to reflect the waves off the back of my rig?
I have always had them face forward into the back of the rear seat....Just wondering... input and advise always helpful. Thanks
marlon.
fmarlon on 09/22/2009 14:31:35
After hooking up the Kenwood KAC-9104D to the vented box with the 2 10" DVC 4 Ohm P310D4 and making a few adjustments to the amp then the HU, It just didn't sound right. I never turned them up or listened to even one song. About midnight I decided to pull the speakers out of the Tahoe and bring them in and have a look at the wiring, so I got up out of bed and did that.
I have them wired down to two ohms each then to one ohm to the amp. The wiring was ok, but I did notice that one of the cones movement was really easy compared to the other sub. Removed from the box, turned it over and inspected it, half of the spider is unglued or disconnected from the top of the former, I can see the voice coil inside. I bought them used so I know they were never tested or inspected before. I never even thought or knew what to look for myself, until I was about asleep and got up to do it. But, now I know the hazzards of buying used and what I paid for them at least pays for the good one and the box. I hope the other one is fixable and might last for a while.
Expoxy or super glue and an activator? I am still contemplating which to use? I have read your "repair spider article" and am about ready to go to Loew's. Is there any particular type that you recommend? I know you said the kind that mixes with one plunger. Well, I'll see what's out there and let you know what's next.
marlon
swez on 09/22/2009 22:26:01
Marlon,
A high temp Epoxy type adhesive will do the job here. When the former separates from the spider, it's often due to age and abused before you got the subs. (Wrong box size, too much Bass Boost or too much power)
The epoxy adhesive should work if this joint has failed. But you have to mix the epoxy, then load it into a syringe and then glue the former to the spider and use a hair dryer to cure the joint and than allow it to harden. (Heat accelerates the curing process and lowers viscosity of the epoxy to allow it to flow into the separation) It's a tedious task, (Alignment to match the original glue lines) but after doing a few of these, it seems to work out well and get the sub working properly and usable for a while.
Do not use superglue here as it's too brittle and wil fracture again later.
Comprend all that?
Swez
fmarlon on 09/23/2009 01:56:47
Of course. thanks
But, either way, I don't expect too much from it.
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