hey everyone. i have a little bit of a problem.. ill give you a detailed run down..
i have two batteries in parellell, one underhood and another hardwired without a fuse into the trunk. i have a 8g power cable running into a 100 amp inline fuse, that then runs to a un fused distribution block, which sends two 8g power wires to a 5-farad cap. the cap is grounded to the chassis. the power wires from both amps are going to the cap. the grounds are also going to the cap.
the problem:
i have 2 pioneer 760w max, running bridged at 380 to each sub. the left amp works fine which has a 4g ground to the cap. the right however is blowing subs up, smoking then the sub will refuse to work. it will make the amp turn on and off like if you touch the speaker wire together. i am running a 8g ground on the right amp, which is the only wiring difference. i dont know why it is doin this..
so much money for so much sound, thanks for the help
justin
Replies (10)
swez on 06/21/2009 03:58:08
Do you have a link to the amps mentioned above? (Model #?)
I suspect the one that's flaming subs is under powered from the battery in the back. This BAT should be fused at 60 amperes with #8 gage wire and 100A if #4 gage is used.
Say more about the subs you are using too OK?
Swez
ttocs on 06/21/2009 07:59:30
WOW, with an unfused battery and cap I would recomend either installing a fuse or increasing your insurance and installing a fire extinguisher.
So you are running one amp per sub, and one of the amps has a ground wire that is half the size of the other? What do you think would happen if you had two identicle motors in your car but one had an exhaust that was half the size of the other? If the box does not have individually sealed enclosures I am sure that we have a combination of problems leading to your smoke.
jpwagner07 on 06/21/2009 09:56:32
i have a 100A fuse coming roght off the rear battery before the dist block. the amps are pioneer 760w max model number gm-5400T. i will try a thicker ground and put a fuse between the block and cap. the box is individually sealed. i have the sub removed and the amp turned off and my right amp is playin great no issues. i put a new sub in it works for like anywhere between 6-20 minutes then it stops. i take one screw out and push it down and POOF. smoking..
this is confusing as hell
swez on 06/21/2009 11:53:34
It sure is confusing. Let's break things down into bites and see what develops.
1. Both amps can draw a tad over 55A's of current at full power
2. #8 gage power and ground is appropriate for each amp
3. #4 gage power line from main BAT to AUX BAT & Cap in rear is highly recommended and fuse at 100A's under the hood
Questions:
A. What is make and model of your subs?
B. This box, is it sealed or ported?
C. Do you know the cf of each chamber in this box?
As I sift through the details, am tempted to say the one amp has some internal damage and may be putting out some DC voltage at a level high enough to fry a sub. It could be clipping badly or just have DC bleeding into the main power amp section.
You mentioned the Short Protect feature works, but that will not help this problem until there is a short at the outputs. If the amp is still under warranty, I'd take that route and get another amp based on the results so far. (A few fried subs)
The #4 gage ground to one amp should not have any affect on either amp as they only loop as much current as needed from each amp. However, using the same grounding point as the Cap for each amp, is a good idea.
OK, fill in the questions and we'll dig deeper,
Swez
basshead396 on 06/21/2009 12:25:24
Wiring is the part of the system that most people try to skrimp on. Don't do this. Think of the amps and subs as the heart and wiring as the arteries. If they do not pump enough blood[power] to the heart[amps] it will not funtion properly and shuts down, this in turn causes all kinds of problems,i.e. your dead. If you are running a battery in the trunk about 12 ft away it would be best to run 1/0ga wire to it with a 150amp fuse at the front battery, run 4ga to the cap with a 120amp fuse between them, and then from the cap to each amp. ALWAYS use the same size wire for power and ground and make your ground wires as short as possible and have a good clean[no paint] grounding point. Please do not use cheap wire invest in the good stuff it will be worth it in the long run.
ttocs on 06/21/2009 15:38:14
I would like to add that if you are adding a 2nd batter and putting it in the trunk that the wire connecting them(if they are not isolated) needs to be fused with in 12 inches of BOTH batteries to protect that wire from shorting to either battery.
Any chance you can get some pics of this? They help alot........
basshead396 on 06/21/2009 16:23:37
Yes good idea I should have of that, also check your speaker wires on the amp that keeps smoking subs, make sure that no wires are touching the other terminal.I would use 12ga speaker wire on the subs but what the heck I'm useing 8ga on my DD.
jpwagner07 on 06/21/2009 22:10:48
i figured out the issue. i put an amp meter on the postives of both amps coming off the cap. the right amp, (which fries subs) it was showing 70a which the one on the left, was showin 50. i changed the skimpy ground to a soild 4 g and it works awesome now. got more bump in my trunk. my diagnosis,(which doesnt mean anything because i build engines and not stereos) was the right amp wasnt grounding fast enough, causing it to take out the weakest point which is the sub itself. after installing another fuse, and re soldering everything, im feeling confidant.. i really appreciate all the fast input and courtesy of you guys.. thanks!! swez was right in the first post. lol thanks again
basshead396 on 06/22/2009 01:06:45
Hope that solves your problems and everything works fine now. Glad we could help. Anything else you need help with just let us know.
swez on 06/22/2009 09:21:38
Very interesting find here. Two basically identical amps and subs, but one amp is drawing 70 and the other is drawing 50 amperes of current. That's a big offset and 70A's is an overload.
The larger ground may have helped and that's good, but another test that's more accurate, test the AC voltage off each amp with the subs connected. Then, match the two amps by adjusting gain on the stronger amp until both read the same voltage. (The 70A draw is too high and this will send out a heavily clipped audio signal that emmulates DC... that's what fries subs)
As for the HU shutting down, that usually a protection circuit that is detecting too much heat or a shorted speaker/speaker line. Here, the proper tool is an Ohmeter. Test each speaker line off the harness, while the HU is off and harness is unplugged. Look for a very low ohmic rating on one or more speaker lines. (Under 2 ohms) Hopefully there's only one bad line/speaker here.
Swez
i have two batteries in parellell, one underhood and another hardwired without a fuse into the trunk. i have a 8g power cable running into a 100 amp inline fuse, that then runs to a un fused distribution block, which sends two 8g power wires to a 5-farad cap. the cap is grounded to the chassis. the power wires from both amps are going to the cap. the grounds are also going to the cap.
the problem:
i have 2 pioneer 760w max, running bridged at 380 to each sub. the left amp works fine which has a 4g ground to the cap. the right however is blowing subs up, smoking then the sub will refuse to work. it will make the amp turn on and off like if you touch the speaker wire together. i am running a 8g ground on the right amp, which is the only wiring difference. i dont know why it is doin this..
so much money for so much sound, thanks for the help
justin
Replies (10)
swez on 06/21/2009 03:58:08
Do you have a link to the amps mentioned above? (Model #?)
I suspect the one that's flaming subs is under powered from the battery in the back. This BAT should be fused at 60 amperes with #8 gage wire and 100A if #4 gage is used.
Say more about the subs you are using too OK?
Swez
ttocs on 06/21/2009 07:59:30
WOW, with an unfused battery and cap I would recomend either installing a fuse or increasing your insurance and installing a fire extinguisher.
So you are running one amp per sub, and one of the amps has a ground wire that is half the size of the other? What do you think would happen if you had two identicle motors in your car but one had an exhaust that was half the size of the other? If the box does not have individually sealed enclosures I am sure that we have a combination of problems leading to your smoke.
jpwagner07 on 06/21/2009 09:56:32
i have a 100A fuse coming roght off the rear battery before the dist block. the amps are pioneer 760w max model number gm-5400T. i will try a thicker ground and put a fuse between the block and cap. the box is individually sealed. i have the sub removed and the amp turned off and my right amp is playin great no issues. i put a new sub in it works for like anywhere between 6-20 minutes then it stops. i take one screw out and push it down and POOF. smoking..
this is confusing as hell
swez on 06/21/2009 11:53:34
It sure is confusing. Let's break things down into bites and see what develops.
1. Both amps can draw a tad over 55A's of current at full power
2. #8 gage power and ground is appropriate for each amp
3. #4 gage power line from main BAT to AUX BAT & Cap in rear is highly recommended and fuse at 100A's under the hood
Questions:
A. What is make and model of your subs?
B. This box, is it sealed or ported?
C. Do you know the cf of each chamber in this box?
As I sift through the details, am tempted to say the one amp has some internal damage and may be putting out some DC voltage at a level high enough to fry a sub. It could be clipping badly or just have DC bleeding into the main power amp section.
You mentioned the Short Protect feature works, but that will not help this problem until there is a short at the outputs. If the amp is still under warranty, I'd take that route and get another amp based on the results so far. (A few fried subs)
The #4 gage ground to one amp should not have any affect on either amp as they only loop as much current as needed from each amp. However, using the same grounding point as the Cap for each amp, is a good idea.
OK, fill in the questions and we'll dig deeper,
Swez
basshead396 on 06/21/2009 12:25:24
Wiring is the part of the system that most people try to skrimp on. Don't do this. Think of the amps and subs as the heart and wiring as the arteries. If they do not pump enough blood[power] to the heart[amps] it will not funtion properly and shuts down, this in turn causes all kinds of problems,i.e. your dead. If you are running a battery in the trunk about 12 ft away it would be best to run 1/0ga wire to it with a 150amp fuse at the front battery, run 4ga to the cap with a 120amp fuse between them, and then from the cap to each amp. ALWAYS use the same size wire for power and ground and make your ground wires as short as possible and have a good clean[no paint] grounding point. Please do not use cheap wire invest in the good stuff it will be worth it in the long run.
ttocs on 06/21/2009 15:38:14
I would like to add that if you are adding a 2nd batter and putting it in the trunk that the wire connecting them(if they are not isolated) needs to be fused with in 12 inches of BOTH batteries to protect that wire from shorting to either battery.
Any chance you can get some pics of this? They help alot........
basshead396 on 06/21/2009 16:23:37
Yes good idea I should have of that, also check your speaker wires on the amp that keeps smoking subs, make sure that no wires are touching the other terminal.I would use 12ga speaker wire on the subs but what the heck I'm useing 8ga on my DD.
jpwagner07 on 06/21/2009 22:10:48
i figured out the issue. i put an amp meter on the postives of both amps coming off the cap. the right amp, (which fries subs) it was showing 70a which the one on the left, was showin 50. i changed the skimpy ground to a soild 4 g and it works awesome now. got more bump in my trunk. my diagnosis,(which doesnt mean anything because i build engines and not stereos) was the right amp wasnt grounding fast enough, causing it to take out the weakest point which is the sub itself. after installing another fuse, and re soldering everything, im feeling confidant.. i really appreciate all the fast input and courtesy of you guys.. thanks!! swez was right in the first post. lol thanks again
basshead396 on 06/22/2009 01:06:45
Hope that solves your problems and everything works fine now. Glad we could help. Anything else you need help with just let us know.
swez on 06/22/2009 09:21:38
Very interesting find here. Two basically identical amps and subs, but one amp is drawing 70 and the other is drawing 50 amperes of current. That's a big offset and 70A's is an overload.
The larger ground may have helped and that's good, but another test that's more accurate, test the AC voltage off each amp with the subs connected. Then, match the two amps by adjusting gain on the stronger amp until both read the same voltage. (The 70A draw is too high and this will send out a heavily clipped audio signal that emmulates DC... that's what fries subs)
As for the HU shutting down, that usually a protection circuit that is detecting too much heat or a shorted speaker/speaker line. Here, the proper tool is an Ohmeter. Test each speaker line off the harness, while the HU is off and harness is unplugged. Look for a very low ohmic rating on one or more speaker lines. (Under 2 ohms) Hopefully there's only one bad line/speaker here.
Swez
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