I currently have 4 x HolywoodAudio 1508D2 15" subs, Running off a sony XM-2500R amp(2500 watts RMS). Im changing my car and would also like to change my setup. I normally hit around 152dBs in comps. I want to down size the stereo (especially the weight). My current amp ways about 70lbs and the subs and large box weigh considerably more. I want the next stereo to fit entirely in the trunk so 2 x 12s or 2 x 15s or possibly 3 x 10s. The only thing is i dont want the system to be much quieter (I like my bass!!!). But I am wanting a improvement in SQ the 4 15s drone alot. I would prefer to have 3 x 10s or 2 x 12s as I would like this to be a "pritty" install ather than a Huge BOX with a amp bolted onto it and no trunk room.
The sort of subs in looking at are the DD95** range or similar price range.
How are: -
Diamond audio TDX subs?
DD any series
Crystall
Fusion (Jonah series)
JLW6
Orion H2
or any other suggestion you may have
Subs i do not want as friends allready have are
Kicker Solo's
Brahma's
JBL GTI
The amp must go as this one is way too heavy i love the SQ on this amp but it is very inefficient being a class A rather than a class D.
I previously owned a JBL BP1200.1 amp but the SQ on this amp left a lot to be desired any ideas on a AMP dont want to spend more than $800 hows the new BPX2200? any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks In Advance
Dan GRIN
Replies (16)
-dan- on 09/17/2003 19:40:15
OMG i didnt realise i typed that much sorry!
Swez on 09/19/2003 05:47:25
Well, you had to type a lot to say what you had to say...
Downsizing makes sense if you are demanding more SQ and shrinking the space needed for your system. But hitting those high SPL numbers requires 3 major aspects:
1. High output subs
2. High end power amp(s)
3. Sound dampening of the vehicle used
Depending on the new vehicle you are working with, space and power to feed a hungry amp or 2, will be an issue as well. Are you planning to add some decent high/mids and amp them as well?
All the sub makers you listed have some pretty nice gear. The trick is to optimize what you choose and make an enclosure that fits your space and woofer needs. If you are shooting for high SPL numbers, assume you will go ported?
Say more on your plans and we'll bat it about until something gels.
Swez COFFEE
-dan- on 09/19/2003 15:02:24
OK here we go....
my current amp
As you can see it is huge!
the look i want is somethinh like this
I allready have a alpine headunit, 2 x amps for front/rear speakers, line driver, EQ, Components.
Basically i want to keep up in the high 140s for spl. I know im going to have to take a dropbut itll b worth it for the improvement in SQ. Sound deading is a definate yes as i cannot stand annoying rattles (one of the main reasons im changing my car old system has almost trashed the car lol)
Im going to get a high output alternator for the new car ohh i allready have 2 optima batterys and split charge system.
The car i will own will be like 1 pictured below
Yes i want a ported enclosure, im thinking of porting at 35Hz for daily driving and maybe having a swapable port around 60-65 Hz for comps.
So what do u think?
Do you have any recomendations on the subs listed above? the pros / cons etc and any other subs or amps i should be considering?
thanks
dan
Swez on 09/19/2003 18:11:51
Hummm, that 2nd and 3rd shot of install were terrific. Very clean, well mapped out and plenty of boom with the subs they show. Nice work indeed.
I don't have any experience with any of the subs mentioned in your list but know them all to be quality performers for SPL and good SQ as well. The JL's are probably the best known and they rarely fail when used in the proper power range and sub enclosure.
Since you already know and reject the Brahma, I have been reading some very good things about guys using Resonance Engineering's XXX series. These are very potent subs and can really deliver high SPL and great SQ. Have a look at this site for details:
http://www.respl.com/
A bit hard to navigate in this site, but poke around as you like.
Also, you mentioned you had tried a JBL 1200.1 out but did not like it??? What was lacking in that amp in your estimations?
Have you heard of the HiFonics Brutus BX 1000D? I know they make fine amps as well. You will propbably want one per sub, but well under the price mentioned earlier.
Have a look here: http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/1506
Or here: http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/hifonics.html (a bit more expensive here... but they also have the BX 1500D listed)
The BX 1500D can see this on the main web site: http://www.maxxsonics.com/hifonics/amps_dclass.html
Comments?
Swez
-dan- on 09/19/2003 19:02:34
I did like the jbl amp untill it was turned up loud, when ran ar reasonably high levels it started to sound very roapy. (the gain was never set above 1/3 no boost etc) perhaps it was because i was running it at 1.3 ohms, ive heard they prefer to run at 2 ohms although 1 ohm stable. Also i did not like the fact it did not have a subsonic filter. But for the price i cant complain, the amp is very good value gives great bang for your buck, just not the quality i was after thats all.
Just looked at the hifonics amps, look pritty impressive definatly worth a look, thats if i can get them over here in the UK and at a reasonable price, although i believe ikesound ship internationally so it shouldn't be a major issue.
Any opinion on the earthquake phd 2 amp is this a spl only amp would the sound be roapy?
Those XXX subs look very nice, awsome xmax but their efficiency appears pritty low 10's 82.9dB, 12's 85.9dB, and 15's 88.7dB, will this have a major effect on their performance??? These subs definatly seem to offer the bast bang for your buck in comparrison to the subs ive been looking at has anyoun used/heard these and can say 1st hand their performance?
The airspace ill have for the subs will be around 8 cu^ft so 2 12s or possibly 2 15s would be the best option i think.
ckoscin2 on 09/20/2003 01:00:46
ok ok.... i have two Diamond audio m6 12's and i love them... with my 1000w amp getting about 500w rms to each gives me 142-143 spl any day of the week. as of the TDX's i wanted to get a set of 12's i hear thay are great. i would think they would be better then my two. and a buddy of mine had two 12" DD's the ones that were 800w rms he had his in a ported box and a audiobahn amp a2300hcx (the 2400w one) they sounded really good. also to me they sounded louder (more spl), they need to be in a big ported box tho. the tdx's will run about 500 bucks EACH for 12's dont know about the pricing on the DD tho.
Swez on 09/20/2003 08:11:12
The Earthquake phd 2 is a good amp for SPL comps especially. I had a friend that used them in his car and he thought they were the best going for his needs and sold many other amps as well as an e-tailer.
About the RE XXX series, I have not heard them... but several of the guys on a different forum have them and make a big push for others to check them out The only drawback.. they are low efficiency as they have pretty heavy motors, HD spiders and such. This means more power handling and better cone stability under high SPL conditions. However, the trade off is lower efficiency numbers and a hefty amp to drive them to full potential.
Can you define roapy? Not sure what that term means???
Swez
-dan- on 09/20/2003 13:08:51
by roapy i mean a rough sound, not very precise, perhaps i just got a bad amp last time? I think ill have to take a trip to my local audio shop and see if they have any of the XXX's in stock because i really would like to hear one before i buy it. I like the look of the hifonics amp looks very stylish(when compared to the JBL BP1200.1) Has anyone used on of these amps as i know looks and numbers are not everything, it would be nice to know wether they actually do put out the numbers they claim.
thanks again swez
dan
Swez on 09/20/2003 17:36:32
HiFonics is a very well respected name in high end car audio. In fact, I almost bought one of the 4 channel versions until a friend of mine came over and gave me a boat load of his extra gear for helping him build/install his new system and sub enclosure.
HiFonics does underrate their amps so the power you see is the specs are the absolute minimum you can expect . I would not have mentioned them if I had thought them inferior. Several guys on another forum use them and like them very well. The only negative feedback I have ever heard on the Class A/B amps... they run pretty warm on low ohmic loads, (like RF does) but with Class D Mono amps, this should be minimal as there are mostly power circuits, preamp and output section.
About roapy, much of this we often attribute to clipping the amp or the HU that supplies the amp its signals. Woofers that are not well matched to the enclosures they are in will cause this too. This is especially true of larger sealed designs and improperly tuned, port applications. If the subs are forced to reproduce any signals below the port tuning frequency or the cones are not well stabilized... we get roapy bass too!
Good luck and keep us posted as you go along,
Swez
-dan- on 09/22/2003 18:24:55
Thanks swez, Ive finally decided to go for 2 x 15" XXX subs and 2 Hifonics amps juust going to take a few weeks to get here though :o( as i liv in the UK (Dam import tax 22.5%) oh well still cheapr than buying the amps from the UK.
Once Recieved my system will comprise of: -
1 x Alpine CDA-7894RB MP3 Headunit
2 x RE XXX 15" Subs In Custom Ported Box
2 x Hifonics Brutus BX1000D amps
2 x Holywood HVX 300.2 Amps
Set of Kinetic 6.5" components
Set Of JBL GTI 6.5" Coaxials for rear fill
1 x Set of 6x9s for trunk install (Only switched on whilst trunk is open)
1 x Pioneer 0-15dB line Driver
1 x JBL GTE422 4 chgannel 22 Band EQ
1 x Optima Red Top Battery
1 x Split Charge System
0 AWG Wireing Kit
1 x 200 AMP circuiit Breaker
1 x relay for Remote Power
1 x Custom made switch pannel for individual control of amps etc.
I will post pics once all recieved and fitted,
thanks again
dan
(OMG I didnt realise i had spent so much money on car audio oops better not tell the woman ;) )
Swez on 09/23/2003 08:26:28
Dan,
Your wife is going to strangle you when she sees all this new gear floating through the back door... SMILE
Nice stuff you have accumulated here and the new gear will definitely add a new dimension to the low end bass department.
I have heard the the taxes you guys get whacked with are substantial. But if you can order from here, the prices are so much lower... still a better deal than buying off UK sites I have looked at before.
If you need some additional technical assistance when it all the fun starts... just come on back and we'll try to work it out.
The new RE XXX subs, you notes a custom ported enclosure. Is this something you have now or plan to make/buy when they come in? What is the projected port tuning frequency you are shooting for?
Swez
-dan- on 09/23/2003 11:22:23
Im building a ported enclusure tuned at 35Hz for daily driving and maybe having a swapable port around 60-65 Hz for comps.
So what do u think?
I was looking on the RE site and saw they have suggested enclosures for the 10" and 12" but nothing noted for the 15", I have a copy of WIN ISD and was wondering how good this was at accuratly tuning a box to a specific sub have you ever used this program to succesfully design a box?
Swez on 09/23/2003 20:22:33
If the XXX 15's are in the data base of Win ISD, you should get a pretty accurate design from this tool. I have it on my computer now, but have not taken much time to see what it can do. Others I know, ise it frequently to map a design, but they admit that it does not have every detail nailed down perfectly. Which is fine, as there is a fudge factor with most subs... a few percent one way or the other is generally acceptable. Play with it a while if you like and see what you come up with.
In the tech notes, the 15" XXX recommends a 2.0 cf sealed per sub and if you go SQL, using 4.0 cf/sub, tuned at 27 Hz. Big box whe ported huh?
If all else fails, can write to RE Technical and request enclosure design assistance. Adire (Brahma) does this very well for their customers. I would hope RE will as well.
Swez
-dan- on 09/24/2003 07:21:21
Thats Strange, my version of winisd does not have them listed, guess ill have to find a new version. Ill keep you posted on the progress of the install.
thanks
dan
Swez on 09/24/2003 20:34:10
If you have the Theil/Small parameters for these subs (off website), can plug the details into WinISD and run the program and see what it spits out.
Swez
Swez on 09/24/2003 20:34:10
If you have the Theil/Small parameters for these subs (off website), can plug the details into WinISD and run the program and see what it spits out.
Swez
PS Another option would be to get box parameters off the website or contact RE on their design recommedations and take it right from the horses mouth. The H,W & D figures can be modified as needed to get the proper cf per chamber, but the port dimensions will be pretty well fixed by the port perameters.
The sort of subs in looking at are the DD95** range or similar price range.
How are: -
Diamond audio TDX subs?
DD any series
Crystall
Fusion (Jonah series)
JLW6
Orion H2
or any other suggestion you may have
Subs i do not want as friends allready have are
Kicker Solo's
Brahma's
JBL GTI
The amp must go as this one is way too heavy i love the SQ on this amp but it is very inefficient being a class A rather than a class D.
I previously owned a JBL BP1200.1 amp but the SQ on this amp left a lot to be desired any ideas on a AMP dont want to spend more than $800 hows the new BPX2200? any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks In Advance
Dan GRIN
Replies (16)
-dan- on 09/17/2003 19:40:15
OMG i didnt realise i typed that much sorry!
Swez on 09/19/2003 05:47:25
Well, you had to type a lot to say what you had to say...
Downsizing makes sense if you are demanding more SQ and shrinking the space needed for your system. But hitting those high SPL numbers requires 3 major aspects:
1. High output subs
2. High end power amp(s)
3. Sound dampening of the vehicle used
Depending on the new vehicle you are working with, space and power to feed a hungry amp or 2, will be an issue as well. Are you planning to add some decent high/mids and amp them as well?
All the sub makers you listed have some pretty nice gear. The trick is to optimize what you choose and make an enclosure that fits your space and woofer needs. If you are shooting for high SPL numbers, assume you will go ported?
Say more on your plans and we'll bat it about until something gels.
Swez COFFEE
-dan- on 09/19/2003 15:02:24
OK here we go....
my current amp
As you can see it is huge!
the look i want is somethinh like this
I allready have a alpine headunit, 2 x amps for front/rear speakers, line driver, EQ, Components.
Basically i want to keep up in the high 140s for spl. I know im going to have to take a dropbut itll b worth it for the improvement in SQ. Sound deading is a definate yes as i cannot stand annoying rattles (one of the main reasons im changing my car old system has almost trashed the car lol)
Im going to get a high output alternator for the new car ohh i allready have 2 optima batterys and split charge system.
The car i will own will be like 1 pictured below
Yes i want a ported enclosure, im thinking of porting at 35Hz for daily driving and maybe having a swapable port around 60-65 Hz for comps.
So what do u think?
Do you have any recomendations on the subs listed above? the pros / cons etc and any other subs or amps i should be considering?
thanks
dan
Swez on 09/19/2003 18:11:51
Hummm, that 2nd and 3rd shot of install were terrific. Very clean, well mapped out and plenty of boom with the subs they show. Nice work indeed.
I don't have any experience with any of the subs mentioned in your list but know them all to be quality performers for SPL and good SQ as well. The JL's are probably the best known and they rarely fail when used in the proper power range and sub enclosure.
Since you already know and reject the Brahma, I have been reading some very good things about guys using Resonance Engineering's XXX series. These are very potent subs and can really deliver high SPL and great SQ. Have a look at this site for details:
http://www.respl.com/
A bit hard to navigate in this site, but poke around as you like.
Also, you mentioned you had tried a JBL 1200.1 out but did not like it??? What was lacking in that amp in your estimations?
Have you heard of the HiFonics Brutus BX 1000D? I know they make fine amps as well. You will propbably want one per sub, but well under the price mentioned earlier.
Have a look here: http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/1506
Or here: http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/hifonics.html (a bit more expensive here... but they also have the BX 1500D listed)
The BX 1500D can see this on the main web site: http://www.maxxsonics.com/hifonics/amps_dclass.html
Comments?
Swez
-dan- on 09/19/2003 19:02:34
I did like the jbl amp untill it was turned up loud, when ran ar reasonably high levels it started to sound very roapy. (the gain was never set above 1/3 no boost etc) perhaps it was because i was running it at 1.3 ohms, ive heard they prefer to run at 2 ohms although 1 ohm stable. Also i did not like the fact it did not have a subsonic filter. But for the price i cant complain, the amp is very good value gives great bang for your buck, just not the quality i was after thats all.
Just looked at the hifonics amps, look pritty impressive definatly worth a look, thats if i can get them over here in the UK and at a reasonable price, although i believe ikesound ship internationally so it shouldn't be a major issue.
Any opinion on the earthquake phd 2 amp is this a spl only amp would the sound be roapy?
Those XXX subs look very nice, awsome xmax but their efficiency appears pritty low 10's 82.9dB, 12's 85.9dB, and 15's 88.7dB, will this have a major effect on their performance??? These subs definatly seem to offer the bast bang for your buck in comparrison to the subs ive been looking at has anyoun used/heard these and can say 1st hand their performance?
The airspace ill have for the subs will be around 8 cu^ft so 2 12s or possibly 2 15s would be the best option i think.
ckoscin2 on 09/20/2003 01:00:46
ok ok.... i have two Diamond audio m6 12's and i love them... with my 1000w amp getting about 500w rms to each gives me 142-143 spl any day of the week. as of the TDX's i wanted to get a set of 12's i hear thay are great. i would think they would be better then my two. and a buddy of mine had two 12" DD's the ones that were 800w rms he had his in a ported box and a audiobahn amp a2300hcx (the 2400w one) they sounded really good. also to me they sounded louder (more spl), they need to be in a big ported box tho. the tdx's will run about 500 bucks EACH for 12's dont know about the pricing on the DD tho.
Swez on 09/20/2003 08:11:12
The Earthquake phd 2 is a good amp for SPL comps especially. I had a friend that used them in his car and he thought they were the best going for his needs and sold many other amps as well as an e-tailer.
About the RE XXX series, I have not heard them... but several of the guys on a different forum have them and make a big push for others to check them out The only drawback.. they are low efficiency as they have pretty heavy motors, HD spiders and such. This means more power handling and better cone stability under high SPL conditions. However, the trade off is lower efficiency numbers and a hefty amp to drive them to full potential.
Can you define roapy? Not sure what that term means???
Swez
-dan- on 09/20/2003 13:08:51
by roapy i mean a rough sound, not very precise, perhaps i just got a bad amp last time? I think ill have to take a trip to my local audio shop and see if they have any of the XXX's in stock because i really would like to hear one before i buy it. I like the look of the hifonics amp looks very stylish(when compared to the JBL BP1200.1) Has anyone used on of these amps as i know looks and numbers are not everything, it would be nice to know wether they actually do put out the numbers they claim.
thanks again swez
dan
Swez on 09/20/2003 17:36:32
HiFonics is a very well respected name in high end car audio. In fact, I almost bought one of the 4 channel versions until a friend of mine came over and gave me a boat load of his extra gear for helping him build/install his new system and sub enclosure.
HiFonics does underrate their amps so the power you see is the specs are the absolute minimum you can expect . I would not have mentioned them if I had thought them inferior. Several guys on another forum use them and like them very well. The only negative feedback I have ever heard on the Class A/B amps... they run pretty warm on low ohmic loads, (like RF does) but with Class D Mono amps, this should be minimal as there are mostly power circuits, preamp and output section.
About roapy, much of this we often attribute to clipping the amp or the HU that supplies the amp its signals. Woofers that are not well matched to the enclosures they are in will cause this too. This is especially true of larger sealed designs and improperly tuned, port applications. If the subs are forced to reproduce any signals below the port tuning frequency or the cones are not well stabilized... we get roapy bass too!
Good luck and keep us posted as you go along,
Swez
-dan- on 09/22/2003 18:24:55
Thanks swez, Ive finally decided to go for 2 x 15" XXX subs and 2 Hifonics amps juust going to take a few weeks to get here though :o( as i liv in the UK (Dam import tax 22.5%) oh well still cheapr than buying the amps from the UK.
Once Recieved my system will comprise of: -
1 x Alpine CDA-7894RB MP3 Headunit
2 x RE XXX 15" Subs In Custom Ported Box
2 x Hifonics Brutus BX1000D amps
2 x Holywood HVX 300.2 Amps
Set of Kinetic 6.5" components
Set Of JBL GTI 6.5" Coaxials for rear fill
1 x Set of 6x9s for trunk install (Only switched on whilst trunk is open)
1 x Pioneer 0-15dB line Driver
1 x JBL GTE422 4 chgannel 22 Band EQ
1 x Optima Red Top Battery
1 x Split Charge System
0 AWG Wireing Kit
1 x 200 AMP circuiit Breaker
1 x relay for Remote Power
1 x Custom made switch pannel for individual control of amps etc.
I will post pics once all recieved and fitted,
thanks again
dan
(OMG I didnt realise i had spent so much money on car audio oops better not tell the woman ;) )
Swez on 09/23/2003 08:26:28
Dan,
Your wife is going to strangle you when she sees all this new gear floating through the back door... SMILE
Nice stuff you have accumulated here and the new gear will definitely add a new dimension to the low end bass department.
I have heard the the taxes you guys get whacked with are substantial. But if you can order from here, the prices are so much lower... still a better deal than buying off UK sites I have looked at before.
If you need some additional technical assistance when it all the fun starts... just come on back and we'll try to work it out.
The new RE XXX subs, you notes a custom ported enclosure. Is this something you have now or plan to make/buy when they come in? What is the projected port tuning frequency you are shooting for?
Swez
-dan- on 09/23/2003 11:22:23
Im building a ported enclusure tuned at 35Hz for daily driving and maybe having a swapable port around 60-65 Hz for comps.
So what do u think?
I was looking on the RE site and saw they have suggested enclosures for the 10" and 12" but nothing noted for the 15", I have a copy of WIN ISD and was wondering how good this was at accuratly tuning a box to a specific sub have you ever used this program to succesfully design a box?
Swez on 09/23/2003 20:22:33
If the XXX 15's are in the data base of Win ISD, you should get a pretty accurate design from this tool. I have it on my computer now, but have not taken much time to see what it can do. Others I know, ise it frequently to map a design, but they admit that it does not have every detail nailed down perfectly. Which is fine, as there is a fudge factor with most subs... a few percent one way or the other is generally acceptable. Play with it a while if you like and see what you come up with.
In the tech notes, the 15" XXX recommends a 2.0 cf sealed per sub and if you go SQL, using 4.0 cf/sub, tuned at 27 Hz. Big box whe ported huh?
If all else fails, can write to RE Technical and request enclosure design assistance. Adire (Brahma) does this very well for their customers. I would hope RE will as well.
Swez
-dan- on 09/24/2003 07:21:21
Thats Strange, my version of winisd does not have them listed, guess ill have to find a new version. Ill keep you posted on the progress of the install.
thanks
dan
Swez on 09/24/2003 20:34:10
If you have the Theil/Small parameters for these subs (off website), can plug the details into WinISD and run the program and see what it spits out.
Swez
Swez on 09/24/2003 20:34:10
If you have the Theil/Small parameters for these subs (off website), can plug the details into WinISD and run the program and see what it spits out.
Swez
PS Another option would be to get box parameters off the website or contact RE on their design recommedations and take it right from the horses mouth. The H,W & D figures can be modified as needed to get the proper cf per chamber, but the port dimensions will be pretty well fixed by the port perameters.
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