I have a CDE-9843 HU, in the front I have a pair of 6 1/2 Insignia's (35rms), and a pair of 6x9 Alpine type-S (50rms). When my engine is off the speakers sound fine, but when the engine is on (parked) static/crackling annoying noises come out from the speakers, and its only the front speakers most of the time. Also, when I turn up the bass from the HU it gets worse, and my HU's lights dim whenever I play my music. At first when I installed of this it sounded great, but as a couple of weeks passed the distortion came along. It also gets worse when I play songs with a lot of bass, it get really bad. I was told I am underpowering my speakers and I should add a 4 channel amp because my HU only gives out 16rms x 4. So can someone please help me? Any suggestion? Thank you for your time.
Replies (75)
swez on 04/5/2009 00:08:28
It seems like you have 2 main issues here.
1. A bad ground at the HU would be the first thing to fix. (Don't use the factory harness ground and run a fresh ground line to a bare metal section in the floor pan, firewall or internal metal bracing behind the HU.
2. If that clears up the engine noise, (Most of the time it will) then adding an amp to power your speakers would be most helpful.
This is a common problem when people swap out their stock HU and install aftermarket gear. This issue come to this forum a few times a month and all are new members with the same complaints.
Swez
imupabove on 04/5/2009 09:51:50
Thanks a lot sir. I will certainly look into that. When I mentioned about my speakers sound fine when the engine is off, is that the grounding problem? Last time I unwired the ground wire from the factory harness ground (black) and I touched it with metal (HU's wire harness) and I turned the ignition and the HU didn't turn on. But I didn't properly fasten it to any metal, I just touched it and it made a little spark. By touching metal should't the HU work? Thanks a lot.
swez on 04/5/2009 11:06:43
This is often called a "Ground Loop" problem. (Noise problems only when engine is running)
It's a technical term, but in a nut shell, the ground used from the factory system is not usually adequate as much of the dash cluster is also connected to the same line. A dedicated ground wire is used to complete the HU needs and the noise usually goes away.
To knock it out, (The noise) we recommend a fresh ground wire to bare metal to the floor pan or firewall as they are the best grounds inside the cabin.
Swez
PS The spark indicates power is flowing in the circuits, but the wire must be attached to bare metal with a self-tapping sheet metal screw.
imupabove on 04/5/2009 15:57:51
Alright, will do sir. You saved me money from going to a audio store! I appreciate it.
imupabove on 04/6/2009 12:51:29
Hello. Its me again. This isn't my first HU. After my after my stock HU, I intalled a Panasonic cq-c1305u. At that time I had stock speakers in the front and at the back were some cheap Pioneers that had a low rms wattage and it was made of some kind of paper which never gave any distortion what so ever. Why is that? Thanks.
swez on 04/7/2009 04:50:22
Am wondering if we are talking two separate issues here now.
"Distortion" comes from amplifier circuits that are run beyond their designed range. The speaker will not be a problem and sound fine until the amplifiers begin to add distortion of their own. ("Clipping" is the term used for this form of distortion) Here's a line chart that may help and we'll assume the HU maxes out at 35:
HU volume setting 3-10: Sounds good and clear
HU volume setting 11-20: Sounds clear and somewhat louder too
HU volume setting 21-30: Sounds clear and louder
HU volume setting 31-35: Distortion in lows are noted. Mids and highs sound shrill and un-natural. (HU amps are clipping badly now)
The other issue mentioned here is "engine noise" getting into the system and being amplified along with the audio signals. This is only noticable when the engine is running. Here's a detailed read on what happens when/why noise gets into the audio system:
http://www.bcae1.com/ground.htm
Hope this helps,
Swez
imupabove on 04/7/2009 12:29:18
Hello. I couldn't place the ground wire on the metal nut on the car. It would of been really hard because it is faced the opposite of me, meaning I need a small tool to unscrew the nut. Instead, I grounded on the sheet of metal on the side of my HU. You know those two shields that hold up the HU. Its on the same screw that holds up my HU. So its touching the metal sheet and the screw, I don't know if the screw is made of real metal. Is this okay? It works though. But I think it sounds better, I cranked up the base and I still here a little of static. I put the base on -5 and it sounds pleasing.
swez on 04/7/2009 19:20:26
The fact it works better than before means stepping in the right direction. Will it be adequate in the long run? Hard to say, but for now... call it good.
Swez
imupabove on 04/7/2009 19:29:36
yes it does sound better. i should get a amp right. the down side is that i only have one pair of preamp outputs. is it true i can buy something called a rca splitter so i can have two amp connected to my HU? i want to add a subwoofer also. thanks.
swez on 04/7/2009 23:30:58
There's a few tricks/tools that can do a lot of good if one plans things well, even with limited features on the HU models.
If you would like to amp your system, there are 2 things I'd like to toss out there for upgrades.
1. A 5-7 band EQ/Line Driver for the dash
2. A modest 5 channel amp (4 full range and 1 modest sub channel)
These two options can improve sound quality and adding a sub channel so you can have some bass w/o pushing your internal speakers too hard for bass. This is a modest package in terms of cost and install skills, but a real step up in sound for your buggie.
It depends on your budget and having the proper tools to install it with some help from the guys at CK. If you would like to look at a package, can give you some ideas and let you ponder the plan a bit before diving in.
Think it over as I've coached several folks on this upgrade and they were VERY PLEASED with the outcome.
Swez
imupabove on 04/7/2009 23:40:07
PLEASE! I am interested, pleast tell me. Sounds good.
swez on 04/8/2009 00:04:36
All right, this will help your system in many ways.
Clarion EQS746: EQ/LD
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6655_Clarion+EQS746.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=froogle
With this add on processor, you only need 1 pair of RCA's from the HU and split it to F/R & S RCA outputs. (6 channels in all) It even offers an AUX input feature for MP3 or I-Pod use in your system as well. (Nice features huh?)
As for amps, there are many brands out there that have 5-6 channels to work with. I like the Infinity, Kicker and HiFonics brands for quality, power and reliability. If you are on a tight budget, the Crunch PZi 550.5
will do the job.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i45_5-channel-or-more-amps.html
Have a look and see which package fits your needs:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i45_5-channel-or-more-amps.html
Comments/Questions?
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 00:08:11
so with the EQ, i can hook up the amp to the EQ right?
swez on 04/8/2009 00:15:37
Yes!
You will need 6 pairs of RCA's from the EQ/LD to the amp outputs and power, ground and a REMote trigger line. (That's your wiring kit demands) The power and ground will be #4 cables. The REM is #18 wire and then your speaker wires will be #16/2 per channel and #12 gage for the sub.
Depending on the type of music you prefer, can use a sealed or ported sub enclosure and a solid 10" woofer should be adequate for the bass.
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 00:16:37
How about this 5 channel amp :http://www3.shopping.com/xPF-Eclipse-EA3532 and this EQ: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SOUNDSTORM-S4EQ-4-Band-Preamp-Equalizer_W0QQitemZ120394415110QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120394415110&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318#ebayphotohosting
swez on 04/8/2009 00:40:14
I don't recommend SoundStorm products as they are cheap knockoffs from China or Taiwan and service/support issues can be a real headache on such low budget gear.
The Eclipse amp is probably sufficient and a solid brand name too. It's a tad light on power to all channels, but satisfactory if that fits your budget.
Comments?
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 00:44:08
really. im planning to power 6 1/2 sps-600 and alpine type-s 6x9 and i have no sub yet. what kind of sub should i get? because some 5 channel amps can power subs with only 100-300 rms. thanks.
swez on 04/8/2009 01:16:17
The Alpine SPS-600's are a good choice for the front channels and they are reasonably efficient with power too. Here, using an amp that can deliver say 50-60 watts RMS to F/R channels, would be adequate power for them and the 6x9's.
As for a sub, Consider the JBL GTO1214D. This is a "very efficient" sub and lots of nice bass from a compact sealed or ported box. This sub allows one to squeeze more SPL from a modest sub amp. Shop around to find the best price avaialble.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GT1214D/JBL-Grand-Touring-GTO1214D.html?tp=111 ($149.00)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_13864_JBL+GTO1214D.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=froogle ($89.00)
The Eclipse PA5532 would be a vey nice fit for the amp choice. It delivers 50 RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms and 200/280 RMS for the sub, (4 or 2 ohm version) depending on the voice coil resistance. (2 ohms would be ideal for most sub amp sections)
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 01:21:27
where can i find this PA5532, looks nice.
swez on 04/8/2009 01:54:13
Good luck! I searched about 6 sites and this amp is old school and very hard to find. They must have been pretty solid back when they came out, but hard to find now.
Shall we stop looking for a needle in a haystack and find one you can buy at a very reasonable price? My suggestion still holds with the Infinity Reference 5350a?
http://www.bargainunlimited.net/servlet/the-1239/Infinity-Reference-5350a/Detail $198.00
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_10145_Infinity+Reference+5350a.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=froogle
$235.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-INFINITY-REFERENCE-5350A-AMPLIFIER-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ250403333348QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item250403333348&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A2%7C240%3A1318
$210.00 Free S/H
Not a bad deal at all!
Swez
swez on 04/8/2009 02:03:50
Hey, it's getting late here and I've got to grab a few winks. (2:00 AM)
If you want to post more questions and such, will review them tomorrow when I get up and running again OK?
Have a good evening,
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 02:08:58
alright thanks a lot sir. i really appreciate it. your saving so much money and time. thanks again.
imupabove on 04/8/2009 02:21:36
heres my plan tell me what you think. right now i have no front speakers and just have alpine 6x9 type-s's. im planning to get either 6022i's or sps-600's for the front. and im going to see how it sounds. if it sounds good, should i just get a amp (mono or 2 channel) and some subs. i want bass to be noticed, u know. a 5 channel amp and a EQ i pretty sure that would be great but im tight on money right now. thanks.
imupabove on 04/8/2009 02:29:20
i have 200 dollars to spend, but i want to save as much for my daily essentials :].
swez on 04/8/2009 13:23:55
We all have to make a buck stretch these days IM. If you can find a pair of 2 ohm front speakers that fit the budget, go that route. (Infinity Reference 6022i) Leave the rears as is.
The infinity 5 channel will power your interior speakers very well after dialing in all the key parameters. The Sub amp is modest in power, but using a high efficiency sub and a ported enclosure to match, you'll have a very nice bumping system in time. The EQ/LD will add a lot of flexibility to a basic HU and the extra features are well worth the cost as opposed to buying a $300 + HU with a lot of extra features you don't really need.
For now, save your pennies, review the manuals for each key product you plan to buy later and then we'll get to work on a quality install that is sure to please. You are basically investing in a quality system on a tight budget, but there's no need to do it all in one pass. Most guys need 3-6 months to get things together before they have their dream system installed and tweaked.
Comments/Questions?
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 13:40:55
so recommend a 5 channel and an EQ right? and would one 12 inch be okay? because i got a 93 camry sedan. also i need to get a wiring kit right? what else?
imupabove on 04/8/2009 14:02:21
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350187356138
check out this EQ, its only 40 bucks. plz tell me what u think. thanks.
swez on 04/8/2009 15:56:22
Yes, a 5 channel amp and the EQ/LD mentioned before are my recommendations.
A 12" sub that is high efficiency and a net 2 ohms is best for the amp we have discussed. (JBL GTO1214D) 12" sub, net 2 ohms and very efficient on power too)
The Performance Technique is a cheap knockoff and passed as quality German engineering gear. It's not! Note it only has 5 bands of EQ and it's a 5 channel unit designed for F/C/R & Sub outs. You don't have a center channel and I don't see a benefit to add more speakers & amp channels to this previous list.
The mentioned Clarion EQS746 has 7 bands of EQ and only $15.00 more for a quality product you are sure to like. Others have used this product on recommendations here and loved the results. You will too!
Here's the amp manual for the Infinity 5 channel we have been looking at. Take a good look at the install details and how to best use what it can do: Read it carefully and learn the details so you know what to do when you buy it.
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/108/108R1300A.PDF
As for cables and hardware, you will need the following:
1. 18-20 ft #4 gage power line, #4 gage ring connector for BAT +
2. 80 amp inline fuse holder, mounted close to the BAT
3. 3 foot #4 gage ground line and #4 gage ring connector for ground
4. 2 pair of RCA lines for F/R channels from EQ to amp
5. 1 pair RCA cable from EQ to amp for Sub (Y-splitter adapter)
6. 75 feet of #16 gage speaker wire
7. 6 feet of #12 gage wire for amp to sub connection
8. 12-15 feet of #18 REMote wire from HU to amp and EQ power line
I have found good wiring and hardware prices from www.knukonceptz.com in the past. They offer several wire quality ranges, but the basics will do just fine. This is a good starter kit:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KFX-AK44
All that is needed to complete the kit is 1 additional pair of RCA cables for your sub amp and #16 & a #18 gage wires for your speakers and REMote.
Y Splitter for sub amp: http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLA-1M2F
RCA Cables for Sub:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLA-5M
If you wish to save a few bucks on RCA cables, use 3 sets of the Klarity cable and buy the other wiring kit parts ala carte. These are not as robust as the Karma SS upgrades, but still useful when handled carefully.
Finally, you can buy #16 speaker cable from any good hardware or Radio Shack store in bulk spools. Same thing w/ the #18 gage trigger line.
Questions?
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 16:06:22
wow, thanks for all the info. what if i get a cheap wiring kit at walmrt? Y splitter is use for what now?
imupabove on 04/8/2009 16:15:47
http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQLHQ5fBINZ1QQLHQ5fIncludeSIFZ1QQ_dmptZCarQ5fAudioQ5fVideoQQ_sopZ15?_nkw=4+Gauge+Amplifier+Installation+Kit&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_odkw=4+Gauge+4+Channel+Amplifier+Installation&_osacat=0
check out this eby page its a list of 4 gauge wiring kits, i see a lot of cheap prices. tell me what the best one. thanks.
swez on 04/8/2009 21:01:42
Looked at the whole lot and don't see the value in most kits offered for your needs. The better ones like Tsunami and Kicker are not completed kits for what you need. The other brands that only offer a 60A fuse tell me these are probably #5 gage wire and cannot handle your amp needs.
Oh, you won't need the Y Splitter after all. I see the Infinity amp has L/R RCA inputs and not needed.
The best value wiring kits I trust are StreetWires, Knukonceptz and Rockford Fosgate. Monster cables are crazy expensive, so why bother.
FYI: When shopping for such items at a typical car audio store, they mark up the prices on wire kits and related hardware. This is a huge markup to balance out their low-ball prices on other items purchased. (I know this as I worked as a salesman in a local chain)
Swez
imupabove on 04/9/2009 03:39:39
what about a capacitor? my car battery is pretty much brand new. i just replaced it months ago.
swez on 04/9/2009 04:19:26
No need for a Cap IM. These are just another form of auto jewlery. Save your money on the needed things that matter.
Swez
imupabove on 04/9/2009 04:23:12
great! what does IM mean? how long have u been working with car audio? what are your credentials, if you don't mind me asking? u sure do sound like you know what your doing or saying. thanks.
swez on 04/9/2009 05:48:56
IM is short for "imupabove"... if I knew your name, I'd use it. (My name is Dave) Am an older guy, (50+) who just enjoys helping others meet/exceed their goals in car audio.
Yes, have been active at CK and a few others sites for about 10 years now. CK is now home as it has plenty of quality traffic and great people like yourself to work with.
Have done a few nice installs/builds for others and enjoyed the learning process. Most of my experience comes from Pro Audio work. My twin brother owns a business that caters to live music, DJ's, large clubs and small arenas. When he gets a big job, we join forces to get the big gigs done on time and in budget. (Installer; Field Tech level II)
Enough about me... how about you? Are you learning anything of value as we walk through the planning phase of your system? (I think so as your questions are getting deeper these days) My concern with new folks, talking in terms they do not understand. If that happens, just ask for clarification and we'll try another approach.
Dave (Swez or Old Man Audio)
PS Where are you located? I live in Michigan, about 25 miles due west of Detroit.
imupabove on 04/9/2009 11:33:48
i live in california, san diego. been out here? i first bought my first audio setup for a novice price, too pricy from where i stand now. i learned a lot what to buy and not. now i know when im being suckered or not. i dont know much but i do know just a little. u went to school for this? thanks/
swez on 04/9/2009 12:45:15
Been to LA a few time and San Francisco and parts north as well on business and pleasure after the work was done. Kinda figured you were on the west coast though by the log in times.
School? Mostly self taught, (OJT) and 3 years of electronics as well. (25 years ago and never used much until I came to CK. Hehe I did take the Pro Intallers test, (MEPC) a few years ago and almost passed w/o studying the materials. (2 points shy) The alarm and remote starter questions were the blunders.
Well, things have changed a lot in the past 5 years and if there is one thing I hope to impart to new readers... think of this as an investment and buy the good stuff off the bat.
There's no point to buying on the cheap, be dissatisfied and back out there again for the stuff we should have bought the 1st time around. Stick with brand names with a reputation to match. Too many junk dealers out there now, on the cheap. Like Sears used to pitch... Good, Better & Best quality stuff. When possible, buy the Better or Best as it suits the need and budget.
Dave
imupabove on 04/9/2009 13:06:36
http://cgi.ebay.com/KnuKonceptz-KLM-4-Gauge-Amp-Kit-for-JL-Audio-500-1_W0QQitemZ380115067747QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item380115067747&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
check out this wiring kit. what do you think? im going to hold of the 5 channel amp. i might just go with a regular amp and sub and the interiors speakers for the vocals.
swez on 04/9/2009 13:27:13
Yep, that would work. I forgot that Knu uses e-bay too. Just one thing on this cable to note. It's 90% Aluminum and clad w/ copper. That makes this size cable stiffer and a tad harder to bend into tight places.
Before installing it, set it out in the sun for a while to soften up the jacket so it bends and flexes a bit better. The power cable will go on one side of the car and your RCA's and REM trigger to the other side.
OK, if just using a sub amp for now, choose a Class D sub amp and you won't need the EQ LD either. The JBL sub is still a go and figure an amp that delivers 300-500 watts RMS into a 2 ohm load will give some solid bass. Ideally, the sub amp will have a dash mounted Bass Boost feature so you can dial up/down the bass as desired from the driver's seat.
Do you have a budget number in mind?
Dave
imupabove on 04/9/2009 13:33:07
so this Knu kit is a good deal? it looks nice. my budget is 100-150, that a good budget? i mean yes its a good budget for me save i mean to get a decent sub/amp setup. i have already a single 12 inch sealed box, but dont know the air space volume, it was a pre-fab box.
swez on 04/9/2009 13:42:35
Looks like a good wire set. With that budget figure, probably need to use e-bay and buy used. Consider these brands of Class D Mononlock amps: JBL, Kicker, Alpine, Infinity, and maybe Kenwood.
As for the box, what shape is it? Rectangle, wedge, modified wedge or other? If you have the outer dimensions and know the panel thickness, can approximate the inner airspace available and suggest subs that meet the need.
Height:
Width:
Depth:
Panel Thickness: 5/8" or 3/4" MDF are most common in prefabs
Swez
PS I have an appointment and will be out for a few hours. Will catch you later in the PM session OK?
imupabove on 04/9/2009 13:48:19
okay if your still there what kind o sub other than that JBL?
swez on 04/9/2009 19:21:46
Depends on the box size you have and the power rating of the amp you choose. It could change a few things, depending on those variables as we can't just slap things together and hope it works.
Swez
imupabove on 04/10/2009 05:00:58
what about the amps on that page that i gave you?
swez on 04/10/2009 05:12:38
Looked at the ones in that page and none are right for your application or out of the budget you mentioned.
All the budget models are Class A/B MONO amps and these draw more power then their Class D bothers. (20-25% more power lost to heat) Am trying to balance power, efficiency and price to meet the general goals you requested.
In this case, a Class D amp that can deliver 300-500 watts RMS to a 1 or 2 ohm sub are most desirable.
Swez
imupabove on 04/10/2009 05:21:05
http://cgi.ebay.com/SPL-SERIES-ii-Z2X-1200-2-CHANNEL-CAR-AMP-SUB-AMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ290302763209QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item290302763209&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2
swez on 04/10/2009 05:31:52
This too is a Class A/B, 2 channel amp. We'd have to change to a different sub, (More expensive) to handle the power rating of this amp.
Think Class D please.
Swez
imupabove on 04/10/2009 05:33:40
hey im going to sleep now. tell me about these amps.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MB-QUART-DSC450-4-2-CH-DISCUS-SERIES-AMP-CAR-AMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ250388629858QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item250388629858&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2
imupabove on 04/10/2009 05:35:51
cant i wire the sub to 2 ohms parallel?
swez on 04/10/2009 05:46:59
Again, a Class A/B, 2/4 channel amp and not suitable for the sub we have discussed already.
Nice amp for full range speakers, but not a good fit for woofer apps.
Get some sleep and we'll catch up later,
Swez COFFEE
swez on 04/10/2009 09:54:22
OK, found a new Kenwood or Infinity Class D amp that's in budget. The Kenwood offers 500 watts RMS @ 2 ohms and has the key features needed. The Infinity amp is almost 350 watts RMS @ 2 ohms.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11796_Kenwood+KAC-8104D.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9710_Infinity+Reference+1300a.html (Personal choice)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_16076_JBL+GTO1214D+Open+Box.html (Special price: Open Box, Refurb or used)
Both amps are new, in box, a solid brand names and a good seller to deal with.
What say you?
Swez
imupabove on 04/10/2009 11:23:33
looks like a good setup. ill see if i can get a good deal on ebay or something.
right now i have no front speakers, i just have the 6x9's alpine type-s and a pair or ordinary tweeters in front (dashboard). with no front speakers my tweeters sound more better, im getting because its getting the most watts because i when i front speakers i wired the tweeters together with the front speakers (i wired them together from the wire harness), do u follow me? and my 6x9's sound more better too. so i am guessing that i am under powering my speakers. it still makes that noise when i turn up the bass, i have the bass at -7 and my treble is to the max. should i ground it on car? theirs a nut but its facing the opposite direction, and its solid metal from the car. im going to get some front speaker really soon and im going to see how they sound.
swez on 04/10/2009 16:26:28
Do Not ground speakers to the car body. This can damage the HU as they have separate ground paths in the audio circuits.
The 6x9's may be leaking air when mounted and this can cause the cones to sound rough when you dial up the volume and add more bass. Also, as we push up the volume on the HU, (~80% of max.)
one can only go so far before the internal amps run out of gas and begin to sound horrible. Backing off on the bass control can help and if the HU has a Loudness Contour feature, turn it off.
Swez
swez on 04/10/2009 16:47:58
BTW, am heading out for the evening to do some trout fishing tonight. I usually get home after 11:30 PM. (EDT) It's catch and release season now and it's time to break out the flyrod and waders for the pre-season Rainbows and Browns.
Wish me luck as it's been a long winter and the thought of hooking into a few nice trout have been on the ol wish list since late fall.
Swez
imupabove on 04/11/2009 03:48:54
heres what i bought on ebay yesterday:
- Pioneer DEH-P4000U= $52
- Pioneer TS-A1682R= $26
- Pioneer TS-G1642R= $26
im going to try these speakers. and see what is best. i can always sell them to people on Craigslist.
imupabove on 04/11/2009 04:23:28
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Pioneer-TS-W307D4-12-1200W-Dual-4-Ohm-Sub_W0QQitemZ270371844605QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Subwoofers_Enclosures?hash=item270371844605&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2
imupabove on 04/11/2009 04:55:18
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CRUNCH-P500-2-500-WATT-2-Ch-Car-Amp-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ230333266232QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item230333266232&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2
swez on 04/11/2009 06:48:56
Looked at your gear and think you'll like the Pioneer TS-G1642R speakers the best of the pair.
The sub and Crunch amp are not a great match as the amp will have to be used as a 2 channel version, 1 channel per coil and about 75 watts RMS per coil.
Tell me something... (Be totally honest please)
1. "Have I been a poor coach and advisor in your mind"?
2. "Is it a tight budget issue and just bought gear based on $"?
3. "Is there a pattern of receiving solid advice and then going your own way w/o regard to those who are truly watching your backside"?
If it's #3, (More often than not) life will be very hard for those who ignore the insights and recommedation of "skilled mentors". This is not a personal jab! However, it shows a major lack of respect for the skills and guidance toward those who want to help others succeed. THINK it over as this could be a life-changing moment. (Not just car audio, but making quality choices as we navigate the slippery slopes in life)
Swez COFFEE
imupabove on 04/11/2009 12:43:44
wow, if you mean that if people give me advice to succeed in life and i dont take it its yes to #3. i mean im focusing in getting a good sound system when i should be worrying about school and my future. this is crazy, because me and my girlfriend were talking about this. but sometimes i dont know who to believe. i dont know what career i want to pursue, so i dont know who to trust. because the other day someone was trying to get me a job and this person, i never heard of in a way, he called me out of no where. so i dont know if hes trying to use because it was a business where you get people in selling life insurance but what if im getting tricked and hes going to benefited. i love to get advice but i dont know if i should take it or not. like this SGT. from the marines trying to recruit me in the marines. hey i bet u it can be beneficial but how would i know if i like it? or what if i waste my time? im 19 years old graduated high school and life just hit me right when i got out. when i was in high school, i didnt think id be in this situation, i didnt file for any colleges, didnt fill out any college applications. i had 3 jobs so far, but none of them were good for the long run to take care of myself in the future. so tell me if im off tracked of what you were asking. haha its crazy how we went to car audio to talking about life. and yes you are a good coach, that is the truth.
imupabove on 04/11/2009 15:07:47
KAC-8104D or KAC-7204
both RMS rating are kind of the same, dont u think? if they have the same rms ratings, does it make a big difference it its monoblock? because arnt monoblock amps strictly for bass? u think one sub will do? i want to be kind of noticed on the streets too.
swez on 04/11/2009 21:58:20
With the gear you noted earlier, the KAC-8104D is a great choice. Yes, it's designed specifically for sub applications. It's also a good fit for that Pioneer sub. I've heard a single 10" sub with that amp and it sounded very solid. A single 12 will be good in a smaller car. (It won't blow your windows out, but with the windows down, the bass will carry enough to attract attention. (Sometimes the kind we don't want... thieves)
On the other topics, if you are "not passionate" about college and don't have a clue as to a major, can always take a few basic classes at a Community College, find a job for pocket money and ease into a career choice when you find something you really like and are good at.
Most young adults don't have a good picture of what their lives will be like until they've had a few years of life under the ol belt. Like you, I too floated from job to job, went back to school and worked until I had a passion to try something new. It was a long haul, but in hindsight, it worked out well for many years.
About Insurance Sales, avoid it! It pays very well after many years for those who can cut it. But these are exceptions and many have to endure little money, long hours and years of financial struggles until they can start their own biz.
The Military? If I were your Dad and you are not passionate to serve right now, I'd say hold off and keep your distance from all recruiters. We are still in an active war in Iraq and moving to Afganistan will be the next step. This could be a long and bloody fight as well. Those who join now, are likely to end up in that mess and it too will be a long battle.
This is not for everybody. Can you imagine being far from home, in the heat of battle and it's either kill or be killed? Or worse yet, get maimed and come back home with limbs missing and not getting the care you need to recover? This is happening to way too many Americans now. They went in with a mission, but came out wounded, little or no support and too many employers will not hire GI's because of the potential trama they experienced in war.
Do your homework and maybe consider serving in the USO, Red Cross, The Peace Corps or some other non-military position that supports our troops from another vantage point. These options will open your eyes to many possibilities later and you can serve in a good cause as well.
This war is not in the average American's best interests. It serves the politicians and the Military machine. What we see on TV is a BIG FAT LIE!
Yes, I respect those who serve(d) and honor their commitments and bravery. However, how many high placed politicians and power brokers will allow their kids to go into an active combat zone? (A few percent at most and few will be in combat zones) Why is that? They are only looking out for thier own best interests at the expense of the less fortunate who have few options or have bought into the Military propaganda.
IMHO, we do not belong in this war any longer. We did a job that has run its coarse. It's time to plan our exit strategy and work on the issues that bring Americas back home to work on our own dilemas. Let the people of XYZ-stan, deal with their own corruption, hostilities and the like. If the UN and Nato support the process, we should too. Right now, there's too many nations that will not commit combat troops anymore. Unfortunately, the America people have short memories and did'nt learn from Vietnam, Solmalia, Cambodia and other hot spots that failed miserably.
End Rant!
Swez
imupabove on 04/11/2009 22:11:26
yeah the world is crazy. we can sure talk about these topics soon but to my audio questions.
i was thinking in getting either two KFC-3011 or KFC-3012 in a sealed box or two Kicker 07C124 in a sealed box. but not sure what amp to power them? i was thinking the KAC-8104D? or should i just get one 12 inch sub to save money because i have that pre-fab box. i just want to be noticed a couple cars down or a block down. what do you think about those subs?
swez on 04/11/2009 23:10:51
Kicker makes some great products. However, the subs they offer, need very large boxes too. (Ported boxes are thier forte) Their box recommendations are huge and power handling for these subs degrade as larger boxes are used. Do you have space for a 5 cf box?
Also, these Kicker's are somewhat efficient subs when converting RMS power from the amp to optimal SPL numbers. The JBL sub we discussed earlier, is more efficient and needs less power/box space to obtain (Kicker states 89.1 Eff; JBL is 93.0 Eff)
Not a huge difference, but if I were specing a system on a tight budget, The Kenwood KAC-8104 and 1 JBL GTO1214D would be my choice.
Hey, you have not given any details on the box you have now as requested. Knowing the external dimensions of this box you have now, will help pick a sub that is well matched to any sub you wish to use in this project later. That Pioneer sub has a wide range of enclosure space it can work in. Knowing that parameter would help a lot!
Swez
imupabove on 04/11/2009 23:27:42
sorry, i havnt gave you the measurement of my box! i will do that tomorrow. but with that KAC-8104 and 1 JBL GTO1214D, would i be noticed on the streets you think? yeah those kicker subs need big boxes. what about the kfc-3011/3012's with the KAC-8194 with this box http://www.onlyfactorydirect.net/servlet/Detail?no=31 its only 47 bucks to ship where i live. tell me what u think?
swez on 04/12/2009 05:26:40
Hum, am good on the amp choice and maybe we will have to look at a pair of 12" subs that match the box if you can't sell it to buy another box.
Do a search for a pair of Infinity Reference 1250w subs if you keep this box. They are a good match for the box you have now. Am sure you can find these for under $65/ea with some good shopping. Stick with the KAC-8104 please.
Swez
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1081250W/Infinity-Reference-1250w.html?tp=111
imupabove on 04/12/2009 13:19:51
so how many infinity 1250w should i get? one or two? what if i get a two channel amp and get a DVC sub and i can wire down to 2 ohms. really good reviews for the infinity 1250w! thanks.
imupabove on 04/12/2009 13:41:46
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-POWER-ACOUSTIK-PS2-1250-2Ch-Car-Audio-Amplifier-Amp_W0QQitemZ230331857637QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item230331857637&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2
swez on 04/12/2009 16:26:38
If you have a dual 12" box now, (The one you linked the other day) a pair of Infinity 1250W's are a great fit. Do you have this box now? If yes, the Infinity subs are a perfect match to this box. This one:
http://www.onlyfactorydirect.net/servlet/Detail?no=31
The Kenwood KAC-8104 is a "very good fit" for these subs. The subs are 4 ohm SVC's and wire down to a perfect two ohm load. The wiring kit you mentioned will also work well with the new Pioneer HU you ordered.
Comments?
Swez
PS Stop already!!! All this flip-flopping is becoming annoying and I cannot coach a student who is constantly changing their plans. I "will not help" those who don't respect my experience, trust my plans and value my time.
FYI: Am a very straight shooter about life and matters like this. Over the years, have helped many hundreds of guys pull great systems together regardless of their budgets. Many have offered a modest donation to the site or directly to me as they save a ton of cash and misteps that would have crippled their results. (They offer as I don't ask for rewards)
I understand it's hard for some to trust folks who may have hidden motives and agendas. I am not one to take advantage of others. My desire is to help others sort out their best options, stay on budget and wind up very happy with the results. Have a blessed Easter and think things through OK?
imupabove on 04/12/2009 19:03:54
how would i wire down to 2ohm load? its only a SVC, i thought u only can do that to 4 ohms DVC subs? right? im sorry, i was going over my head and also yours. im sorry if i disrespected you, i was wondering when were going to say something about me responding with all kinds of questions and not getting to the point. i didnt mean to, if i was in your shoes id say the same thing. yes i do trust you even though i never seen or met u. well here are my options its either the infinity 1250 or the KFC-w3011. but one last question! would 2 sound louder than 1 sub with the same amp (KAC-8104D)?
imupabove on 04/12/2009 23:09:37
hey i got the specs on my box. its a squared box and it has a slanted back.
Height: 14 1/2 inches
Width 16"
Depth: 14 to 15 inches (i measured from the front to back inside the box, but it goes big to small because it is slanted, u get me? is this the depth your talking about?)
Thickness: 3/4
Tell me what sub would be good? Thanks.
swez on 04/13/2009 02:21:45
It sounds like you have a modified wedge type box here. It's difficult to tell the correct internal airspace with the details supplies, so we need to confirm this before choosing a sub. Here we take 5 main measurements to get the proper airspace. Here are the dimensions I need to help you: (External dimensions of box and wood thickness)
1. Width: =
2. Height: =
3. Depth 1 = Top of the wedge
4. Depth 2 = Bottom of the wedge
5. Thickness of wood used
Once we know these numbers, the rest is math I will do for you.
I still believe your best bet is the Kenwood KAC-8104D amp. Since the box is for a single 12" sub, we'll use a single 12" DVC sub to match the amps power and the box dimensions as needed. (4+4 DVC nets a perfect 2 ohms)
FYI: When designing a system of this scale, a single sub is plenty for rigs under 500 watts. This is compact, cost effective and will net plenty of solid bass for the $$$ involved. In systems over 800 watts RMS, 2 subs are worth considering. In this case, we'll go with one sub.
Swez
PS We need to stay the outlined course developed so far. Adding too many counter-productive options into the mix only serves to confuse, delay the process and a waste of time. (Trust this Old Man Audio as I have done this routine many times with great success to the folks who come for help)
Am not mad at you in anyway. I handle issues with others and my kids in the same manner... directly, specifically and then move on w/o holding a grudge. We call this approach "Tough Love". (Be firm, be fair and being direct are the keys to a win-win deal for all) OK, let's move on and wrap up the details as efficiently as possible.
imupabove on 04/13/2009 02:30:51
i already gave u the height, depth, and thickness.
3. Depth 1 = Top of the wedge
4. Depth 2 = Bottom of the wedge
^do mean measure from the hole to the back right top and bottom?
sorry if i sound confused :[ thanks. one subwoofer, i hope i will be noticed.
swez on 04/13/2009 02:53:00
A little confused, but this may help clarify things. (Internal dimensions as measured)
1. Width: = 16"
2. Height: = 14.5"
3. Depth 1 = 15" (Top Depth)
4. Depth 2 = 14" (Bottom Depth)
5. Thickness of wood used = 3/4"
If this is correct, that box is almost 2 cf internally. That's a large box for most 12" sealed woofers and does not seem right. Please clarify if this is correct or fill in the correct details.
Swez
imupabove on 04/13/2009 03:00:22
correct, but i dont know if the top is 15" and the bottom is 14" its a slanted back so the measurements change as u go up and down, follow me? i will check. Later on this morning, ill send a pick to you if you want. i have a great digital camera.
swez on 04/13/2009 03:07:43
Yes, I follow you and when we have a slanted panel of the same width, we measure the top depth, the bottom depth and calculate as followed:
TD + BD/2 = Nominal depth of the slanted panel.
Yes, pics would indeed help.
Swez
PS External pics are most helpful here. One shot inside is good enough.
Replies (75)
swez on 04/5/2009 00:08:28
It seems like you have 2 main issues here.
1. A bad ground at the HU would be the first thing to fix. (Don't use the factory harness ground and run a fresh ground line to a bare metal section in the floor pan, firewall or internal metal bracing behind the HU.
2. If that clears up the engine noise, (Most of the time it will) then adding an amp to power your speakers would be most helpful.
This is a common problem when people swap out their stock HU and install aftermarket gear. This issue come to this forum a few times a month and all are new members with the same complaints.
Swez
imupabove on 04/5/2009 09:51:50
Thanks a lot sir. I will certainly look into that. When I mentioned about my speakers sound fine when the engine is off, is that the grounding problem? Last time I unwired the ground wire from the factory harness ground (black) and I touched it with metal (HU's wire harness) and I turned the ignition and the HU didn't turn on. But I didn't properly fasten it to any metal, I just touched it and it made a little spark. By touching metal should't the HU work? Thanks a lot.
swez on 04/5/2009 11:06:43
This is often called a "Ground Loop" problem. (Noise problems only when engine is running)
It's a technical term, but in a nut shell, the ground used from the factory system is not usually adequate as much of the dash cluster is also connected to the same line. A dedicated ground wire is used to complete the HU needs and the noise usually goes away.
To knock it out, (The noise) we recommend a fresh ground wire to bare metal to the floor pan or firewall as they are the best grounds inside the cabin.
Swez
PS The spark indicates power is flowing in the circuits, but the wire must be attached to bare metal with a self-tapping sheet metal screw.
imupabove on 04/5/2009 15:57:51
Alright, will do sir. You saved me money from going to a audio store! I appreciate it.
imupabove on 04/6/2009 12:51:29
Hello. Its me again. This isn't my first HU. After my after my stock HU, I intalled a Panasonic cq-c1305u. At that time I had stock speakers in the front and at the back were some cheap Pioneers that had a low rms wattage and it was made of some kind of paper which never gave any distortion what so ever. Why is that? Thanks.
swez on 04/7/2009 04:50:22
Am wondering if we are talking two separate issues here now.
"Distortion" comes from amplifier circuits that are run beyond their designed range. The speaker will not be a problem and sound fine until the amplifiers begin to add distortion of their own. ("Clipping" is the term used for this form of distortion) Here's a line chart that may help and we'll assume the HU maxes out at 35:
HU volume setting 3-10: Sounds good and clear
HU volume setting 11-20: Sounds clear and somewhat louder too
HU volume setting 21-30: Sounds clear and louder
HU volume setting 31-35: Distortion in lows are noted. Mids and highs sound shrill and un-natural. (HU amps are clipping badly now)
The other issue mentioned here is "engine noise" getting into the system and being amplified along with the audio signals. This is only noticable when the engine is running. Here's a detailed read on what happens when/why noise gets into the audio system:
http://www.bcae1.com/ground.htm
Hope this helps,
Swez
imupabove on 04/7/2009 12:29:18
Hello. I couldn't place the ground wire on the metal nut on the car. It would of been really hard because it is faced the opposite of me, meaning I need a small tool to unscrew the nut. Instead, I grounded on the sheet of metal on the side of my HU. You know those two shields that hold up the HU. Its on the same screw that holds up my HU. So its touching the metal sheet and the screw, I don't know if the screw is made of real metal. Is this okay? It works though. But I think it sounds better, I cranked up the base and I still here a little of static. I put the base on -5 and it sounds pleasing.
swez on 04/7/2009 19:20:26
The fact it works better than before means stepping in the right direction. Will it be adequate in the long run? Hard to say, but for now... call it good.
Swez
imupabove on 04/7/2009 19:29:36
yes it does sound better. i should get a amp right. the down side is that i only have one pair of preamp outputs. is it true i can buy something called a rca splitter so i can have two amp connected to my HU? i want to add a subwoofer also. thanks.
swez on 04/7/2009 23:30:58
There's a few tricks/tools that can do a lot of good if one plans things well, even with limited features on the HU models.
If you would like to amp your system, there are 2 things I'd like to toss out there for upgrades.
1. A 5-7 band EQ/Line Driver for the dash
2. A modest 5 channel amp (4 full range and 1 modest sub channel)
These two options can improve sound quality and adding a sub channel so you can have some bass w/o pushing your internal speakers too hard for bass. This is a modest package in terms of cost and install skills, but a real step up in sound for your buggie.
It depends on your budget and having the proper tools to install it with some help from the guys at CK. If you would like to look at a package, can give you some ideas and let you ponder the plan a bit before diving in.
Think it over as I've coached several folks on this upgrade and they were VERY PLEASED with the outcome.
Swez
imupabove on 04/7/2009 23:40:07
PLEASE! I am interested, pleast tell me. Sounds good.
swez on 04/8/2009 00:04:36
All right, this will help your system in many ways.
Clarion EQS746: EQ/LD
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6655_Clarion+EQS746.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=froogle
With this add on processor, you only need 1 pair of RCA's from the HU and split it to F/R & S RCA outputs. (6 channels in all) It even offers an AUX input feature for MP3 or I-Pod use in your system as well. (Nice features huh?)
As for amps, there are many brands out there that have 5-6 channels to work with. I like the Infinity, Kicker and HiFonics brands for quality, power and reliability. If you are on a tight budget, the Crunch PZi 550.5
will do the job.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i45_5-channel-or-more-amps.html
Have a look and see which package fits your needs:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i45_5-channel-or-more-amps.html
Comments/Questions?
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 00:08:11
so with the EQ, i can hook up the amp to the EQ right?
swez on 04/8/2009 00:15:37
Yes!
You will need 6 pairs of RCA's from the EQ/LD to the amp outputs and power, ground and a REMote trigger line. (That's your wiring kit demands) The power and ground will be #4 cables. The REM is #18 wire and then your speaker wires will be #16/2 per channel and #12 gage for the sub.
Depending on the type of music you prefer, can use a sealed or ported sub enclosure and a solid 10" woofer should be adequate for the bass.
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 00:16:37
How about this 5 channel amp :http://www3.shopping.com/xPF-Eclipse-EA3532 and this EQ: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SOUNDSTORM-S4EQ-4-Band-Preamp-Equalizer_W0QQitemZ120394415110QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120394415110&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318#ebayphotohosting
swez on 04/8/2009 00:40:14
I don't recommend SoundStorm products as they are cheap knockoffs from China or Taiwan and service/support issues can be a real headache on such low budget gear.
The Eclipse amp is probably sufficient and a solid brand name too. It's a tad light on power to all channels, but satisfactory if that fits your budget.
Comments?
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 00:44:08
really. im planning to power 6 1/2 sps-600 and alpine type-s 6x9 and i have no sub yet. what kind of sub should i get? because some 5 channel amps can power subs with only 100-300 rms. thanks.
swez on 04/8/2009 01:16:17
The Alpine SPS-600's are a good choice for the front channels and they are reasonably efficient with power too. Here, using an amp that can deliver say 50-60 watts RMS to F/R channels, would be adequate power for them and the 6x9's.
As for a sub, Consider the JBL GTO1214D. This is a "very efficient" sub and lots of nice bass from a compact sealed or ported box. This sub allows one to squeeze more SPL from a modest sub amp. Shop around to find the best price avaialble.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GT1214D/JBL-Grand-Touring-GTO1214D.html?tp=111 ($149.00)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_13864_JBL+GTO1214D.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=froogle ($89.00)
The Eclipse PA5532 would be a vey nice fit for the amp choice. It delivers 50 RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms and 200/280 RMS for the sub, (4 or 2 ohm version) depending on the voice coil resistance. (2 ohms would be ideal for most sub amp sections)
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 01:21:27
where can i find this PA5532, looks nice.
swez on 04/8/2009 01:54:13
Good luck! I searched about 6 sites and this amp is old school and very hard to find. They must have been pretty solid back when they came out, but hard to find now.
Shall we stop looking for a needle in a haystack and find one you can buy at a very reasonable price? My suggestion still holds with the Infinity Reference 5350a?
http://www.bargainunlimited.net/servlet/the-1239/Infinity-Reference-5350a/Detail $198.00
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_10145_Infinity+Reference+5350a.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=froogle
$235.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-INFINITY-REFERENCE-5350A-AMPLIFIER-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ250403333348QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item250403333348&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A2%7C240%3A1318
$210.00 Free S/H
Not a bad deal at all!
Swez
swez on 04/8/2009 02:03:50
Hey, it's getting late here and I've got to grab a few winks. (2:00 AM)
If you want to post more questions and such, will review them tomorrow when I get up and running again OK?
Have a good evening,
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 02:08:58
alright thanks a lot sir. i really appreciate it. your saving so much money and time. thanks again.
imupabove on 04/8/2009 02:21:36
heres my plan tell me what you think. right now i have no front speakers and just have alpine 6x9 type-s's. im planning to get either 6022i's or sps-600's for the front. and im going to see how it sounds. if it sounds good, should i just get a amp (mono or 2 channel) and some subs. i want bass to be noticed, u know. a 5 channel amp and a EQ i pretty sure that would be great but im tight on money right now. thanks.
imupabove on 04/8/2009 02:29:20
i have 200 dollars to spend, but i want to save as much for my daily essentials :].
swez on 04/8/2009 13:23:55
We all have to make a buck stretch these days IM. If you can find a pair of 2 ohm front speakers that fit the budget, go that route. (Infinity Reference 6022i) Leave the rears as is.
The infinity 5 channel will power your interior speakers very well after dialing in all the key parameters. The Sub amp is modest in power, but using a high efficiency sub and a ported enclosure to match, you'll have a very nice bumping system in time. The EQ/LD will add a lot of flexibility to a basic HU and the extra features are well worth the cost as opposed to buying a $300 + HU with a lot of extra features you don't really need.
For now, save your pennies, review the manuals for each key product you plan to buy later and then we'll get to work on a quality install that is sure to please. You are basically investing in a quality system on a tight budget, but there's no need to do it all in one pass. Most guys need 3-6 months to get things together before they have their dream system installed and tweaked.
Comments/Questions?
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 13:40:55
so recommend a 5 channel and an EQ right? and would one 12 inch be okay? because i got a 93 camry sedan. also i need to get a wiring kit right? what else?
imupabove on 04/8/2009 14:02:21
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350187356138
check out this EQ, its only 40 bucks. plz tell me what u think. thanks.
swez on 04/8/2009 15:56:22
Yes, a 5 channel amp and the EQ/LD mentioned before are my recommendations.
A 12" sub that is high efficiency and a net 2 ohms is best for the amp we have discussed. (JBL GTO1214D) 12" sub, net 2 ohms and very efficient on power too)
The Performance Technique is a cheap knockoff and passed as quality German engineering gear. It's not! Note it only has 5 bands of EQ and it's a 5 channel unit designed for F/C/R & Sub outs. You don't have a center channel and I don't see a benefit to add more speakers & amp channels to this previous list.
The mentioned Clarion EQS746 has 7 bands of EQ and only $15.00 more for a quality product you are sure to like. Others have used this product on recommendations here and loved the results. You will too!
Here's the amp manual for the Infinity 5 channel we have been looking at. Take a good look at the install details and how to best use what it can do: Read it carefully and learn the details so you know what to do when you buy it.
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/108/108R1300A.PDF
As for cables and hardware, you will need the following:
1. 18-20 ft #4 gage power line, #4 gage ring connector for BAT +
2. 80 amp inline fuse holder, mounted close to the BAT
3. 3 foot #4 gage ground line and #4 gage ring connector for ground
4. 2 pair of RCA lines for F/R channels from EQ to amp
5. 1 pair RCA cable from EQ to amp for Sub (Y-splitter adapter)
6. 75 feet of #16 gage speaker wire
7. 6 feet of #12 gage wire for amp to sub connection
8. 12-15 feet of #18 REMote wire from HU to amp and EQ power line
I have found good wiring and hardware prices from www.knukonceptz.com in the past. They offer several wire quality ranges, but the basics will do just fine. This is a good starter kit:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KFX-AK44
All that is needed to complete the kit is 1 additional pair of RCA cables for your sub amp and #16 & a #18 gage wires for your speakers and REMote.
Y Splitter for sub amp: http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLA-1M2F
RCA Cables for Sub:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLA-5M
If you wish to save a few bucks on RCA cables, use 3 sets of the Klarity cable and buy the other wiring kit parts ala carte. These are not as robust as the Karma SS upgrades, but still useful when handled carefully.
Finally, you can buy #16 speaker cable from any good hardware or Radio Shack store in bulk spools. Same thing w/ the #18 gage trigger line.
Questions?
Swez
imupabove on 04/8/2009 16:06:22
wow, thanks for all the info. what if i get a cheap wiring kit at walmrt? Y splitter is use for what now?
imupabove on 04/8/2009 16:15:47
http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQLHQ5fBINZ1QQLHQ5fIncludeSIFZ1QQ_dmptZCarQ5fAudioQ5fVideoQQ_sopZ15?_nkw=4+Gauge+Amplifier+Installation+Kit&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_odkw=4+Gauge+4+Channel+Amplifier+Installation&_osacat=0
check out this eby page its a list of 4 gauge wiring kits, i see a lot of cheap prices. tell me what the best one. thanks.
swez on 04/8/2009 21:01:42
Looked at the whole lot and don't see the value in most kits offered for your needs. The better ones like Tsunami and Kicker are not completed kits for what you need. The other brands that only offer a 60A fuse tell me these are probably #5 gage wire and cannot handle your amp needs.
Oh, you won't need the Y Splitter after all. I see the Infinity amp has L/R RCA inputs and not needed.
The best value wiring kits I trust are StreetWires, Knukonceptz and Rockford Fosgate. Monster cables are crazy expensive, so why bother.
FYI: When shopping for such items at a typical car audio store, they mark up the prices on wire kits and related hardware. This is a huge markup to balance out their low-ball prices on other items purchased. (I know this as I worked as a salesman in a local chain)
Swez
imupabove on 04/9/2009 03:39:39
what about a capacitor? my car battery is pretty much brand new. i just replaced it months ago.
swez on 04/9/2009 04:19:26
No need for a Cap IM. These are just another form of auto jewlery. Save your money on the needed things that matter.
Swez
imupabove on 04/9/2009 04:23:12
great! what does IM mean? how long have u been working with car audio? what are your credentials, if you don't mind me asking? u sure do sound like you know what your doing or saying. thanks.
swez on 04/9/2009 05:48:56
IM is short for "imupabove"... if I knew your name, I'd use it. (My name is Dave) Am an older guy, (50+) who just enjoys helping others meet/exceed their goals in car audio.
Yes, have been active at CK and a few others sites for about 10 years now. CK is now home as it has plenty of quality traffic and great people like yourself to work with.
Have done a few nice installs/builds for others and enjoyed the learning process. Most of my experience comes from Pro Audio work. My twin brother owns a business that caters to live music, DJ's, large clubs and small arenas. When he gets a big job, we join forces to get the big gigs done on time and in budget. (Installer; Field Tech level II)
Enough about me... how about you? Are you learning anything of value as we walk through the planning phase of your system? (I think so as your questions are getting deeper these days) My concern with new folks, talking in terms they do not understand. If that happens, just ask for clarification and we'll try another approach.
Dave (Swez or Old Man Audio)
PS Where are you located? I live in Michigan, about 25 miles due west of Detroit.
imupabove on 04/9/2009 11:33:48
i live in california, san diego. been out here? i first bought my first audio setup for a novice price, too pricy from where i stand now. i learned a lot what to buy and not. now i know when im being suckered or not. i dont know much but i do know just a little. u went to school for this? thanks/
swez on 04/9/2009 12:45:15
Been to LA a few time and San Francisco and parts north as well on business and pleasure after the work was done. Kinda figured you were on the west coast though by the log in times.
School? Mostly self taught, (OJT) and 3 years of electronics as well. (25 years ago and never used much until I came to CK. Hehe I did take the Pro Intallers test, (MEPC) a few years ago and almost passed w/o studying the materials. (2 points shy) The alarm and remote starter questions were the blunders.
Well, things have changed a lot in the past 5 years and if there is one thing I hope to impart to new readers... think of this as an investment and buy the good stuff off the bat.
There's no point to buying on the cheap, be dissatisfied and back out there again for the stuff we should have bought the 1st time around. Stick with brand names with a reputation to match. Too many junk dealers out there now, on the cheap. Like Sears used to pitch... Good, Better & Best quality stuff. When possible, buy the Better or Best as it suits the need and budget.
Dave
imupabove on 04/9/2009 13:06:36
http://cgi.ebay.com/KnuKonceptz-KLM-4-Gauge-Amp-Kit-for-JL-Audio-500-1_W0QQitemZ380115067747QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item380115067747&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
check out this wiring kit. what do you think? im going to hold of the 5 channel amp. i might just go with a regular amp and sub and the interiors speakers for the vocals.
swez on 04/9/2009 13:27:13
Yep, that would work. I forgot that Knu uses e-bay too. Just one thing on this cable to note. It's 90% Aluminum and clad w/ copper. That makes this size cable stiffer and a tad harder to bend into tight places.
Before installing it, set it out in the sun for a while to soften up the jacket so it bends and flexes a bit better. The power cable will go on one side of the car and your RCA's and REM trigger to the other side.
OK, if just using a sub amp for now, choose a Class D sub amp and you won't need the EQ LD either. The JBL sub is still a go and figure an amp that delivers 300-500 watts RMS into a 2 ohm load will give some solid bass. Ideally, the sub amp will have a dash mounted Bass Boost feature so you can dial up/down the bass as desired from the driver's seat.
Do you have a budget number in mind?
Dave
imupabove on 04/9/2009 13:33:07
so this Knu kit is a good deal? it looks nice. my budget is 100-150, that a good budget? i mean yes its a good budget for me save i mean to get a decent sub/amp setup. i have already a single 12 inch sealed box, but dont know the air space volume, it was a pre-fab box.
swez on 04/9/2009 13:42:35
Looks like a good wire set. With that budget figure, probably need to use e-bay and buy used. Consider these brands of Class D Mononlock amps: JBL, Kicker, Alpine, Infinity, and maybe Kenwood.
As for the box, what shape is it? Rectangle, wedge, modified wedge or other? If you have the outer dimensions and know the panel thickness, can approximate the inner airspace available and suggest subs that meet the need.
Height:
Width:
Depth:
Panel Thickness: 5/8" or 3/4" MDF are most common in prefabs
Swez
PS I have an appointment and will be out for a few hours. Will catch you later in the PM session OK?
imupabove on 04/9/2009 13:48:19
okay if your still there what kind o sub other than that JBL?
swez on 04/9/2009 19:21:46
Depends on the box size you have and the power rating of the amp you choose. It could change a few things, depending on those variables as we can't just slap things together and hope it works.
Swez
imupabove on 04/10/2009 05:00:58
what about the amps on that page that i gave you?
swez on 04/10/2009 05:12:38
Looked at the ones in that page and none are right for your application or out of the budget you mentioned.
All the budget models are Class A/B MONO amps and these draw more power then their Class D bothers. (20-25% more power lost to heat) Am trying to balance power, efficiency and price to meet the general goals you requested.
In this case, a Class D amp that can deliver 300-500 watts RMS to a 1 or 2 ohm sub are most desirable.
Swez
imupabove on 04/10/2009 05:21:05
http://cgi.ebay.com/SPL-SERIES-ii-Z2X-1200-2-CHANNEL-CAR-AMP-SUB-AMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ290302763209QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item290302763209&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2
swez on 04/10/2009 05:31:52
This too is a Class A/B, 2 channel amp. We'd have to change to a different sub, (More expensive) to handle the power rating of this amp.
Think Class D please.
Swez
imupabove on 04/10/2009 05:33:40
hey im going to sleep now. tell me about these amps.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MB-QUART-DSC450-4-2-CH-DISCUS-SERIES-AMP-CAR-AMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ250388629858QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item250388629858&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2
imupabove on 04/10/2009 05:35:51
cant i wire the sub to 2 ohms parallel?
swez on 04/10/2009 05:46:59
Again, a Class A/B, 2/4 channel amp and not suitable for the sub we have discussed already.
Nice amp for full range speakers, but not a good fit for woofer apps.
Get some sleep and we'll catch up later,
Swez COFFEE
swez on 04/10/2009 09:54:22
OK, found a new Kenwood or Infinity Class D amp that's in budget. The Kenwood offers 500 watts RMS @ 2 ohms and has the key features needed. The Infinity amp is almost 350 watts RMS @ 2 ohms.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11796_Kenwood+KAC-8104D.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9710_Infinity+Reference+1300a.html (Personal choice)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_16076_JBL+GTO1214D+Open+Box.html (Special price: Open Box, Refurb or used)
Both amps are new, in box, a solid brand names and a good seller to deal with.
What say you?
Swez
imupabove on 04/10/2009 11:23:33
looks like a good setup. ill see if i can get a good deal on ebay or something.
right now i have no front speakers, i just have the 6x9's alpine type-s and a pair or ordinary tweeters in front (dashboard). with no front speakers my tweeters sound more better, im getting because its getting the most watts because i when i front speakers i wired the tweeters together with the front speakers (i wired them together from the wire harness), do u follow me? and my 6x9's sound more better too. so i am guessing that i am under powering my speakers. it still makes that noise when i turn up the bass, i have the bass at -7 and my treble is to the max. should i ground it on car? theirs a nut but its facing the opposite direction, and its solid metal from the car. im going to get some front speaker really soon and im going to see how they sound.
swez on 04/10/2009 16:26:28
Do Not ground speakers to the car body. This can damage the HU as they have separate ground paths in the audio circuits.
The 6x9's may be leaking air when mounted and this can cause the cones to sound rough when you dial up the volume and add more bass. Also, as we push up the volume on the HU, (~80% of max.)
one can only go so far before the internal amps run out of gas and begin to sound horrible. Backing off on the bass control can help and if the HU has a Loudness Contour feature, turn it off.
Swez
swez on 04/10/2009 16:47:58
BTW, am heading out for the evening to do some trout fishing tonight. I usually get home after 11:30 PM. (EDT) It's catch and release season now and it's time to break out the flyrod and waders for the pre-season Rainbows and Browns.
Wish me luck as it's been a long winter and the thought of hooking into a few nice trout have been on the ol wish list since late fall.
Swez
imupabove on 04/11/2009 03:48:54
heres what i bought on ebay yesterday:
- Pioneer DEH-P4000U= $52
- Pioneer TS-A1682R= $26
- Pioneer TS-G1642R= $26
im going to try these speakers. and see what is best. i can always sell them to people on Craigslist.
imupabove on 04/11/2009 04:23:28
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Pioneer-TS-W307D4-12-1200W-Dual-4-Ohm-Sub_W0QQitemZ270371844605QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Subwoofers_Enclosures?hash=item270371844605&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2
imupabove on 04/11/2009 04:55:18
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CRUNCH-P500-2-500-WATT-2-Ch-Car-Amp-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ230333266232QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item230333266232&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2
swez on 04/11/2009 06:48:56
Looked at your gear and think you'll like the Pioneer TS-G1642R speakers the best of the pair.
The sub and Crunch amp are not a great match as the amp will have to be used as a 2 channel version, 1 channel per coil and about 75 watts RMS per coil.
Tell me something... (Be totally honest please)
1. "Have I been a poor coach and advisor in your mind"?
2. "Is it a tight budget issue and just bought gear based on $"?
3. "Is there a pattern of receiving solid advice and then going your own way w/o regard to those who are truly watching your backside"?
If it's #3, (More often than not) life will be very hard for those who ignore the insights and recommedation of "skilled mentors". This is not a personal jab! However, it shows a major lack of respect for the skills and guidance toward those who want to help others succeed. THINK it over as this could be a life-changing moment. (Not just car audio, but making quality choices as we navigate the slippery slopes in life)
Swez COFFEE
imupabove on 04/11/2009 12:43:44
wow, if you mean that if people give me advice to succeed in life and i dont take it its yes to #3. i mean im focusing in getting a good sound system when i should be worrying about school and my future. this is crazy, because me and my girlfriend were talking about this. but sometimes i dont know who to believe. i dont know what career i want to pursue, so i dont know who to trust. because the other day someone was trying to get me a job and this person, i never heard of in a way, he called me out of no where. so i dont know if hes trying to use because it was a business where you get people in selling life insurance but what if im getting tricked and hes going to benefited. i love to get advice but i dont know if i should take it or not. like this SGT. from the marines trying to recruit me in the marines. hey i bet u it can be beneficial but how would i know if i like it? or what if i waste my time? im 19 years old graduated high school and life just hit me right when i got out. when i was in high school, i didnt think id be in this situation, i didnt file for any colleges, didnt fill out any college applications. i had 3 jobs so far, but none of them were good for the long run to take care of myself in the future. so tell me if im off tracked of what you were asking. haha its crazy how we went to car audio to talking about life. and yes you are a good coach, that is the truth.
imupabove on 04/11/2009 15:07:47
KAC-8104D or KAC-7204
both RMS rating are kind of the same, dont u think? if they have the same rms ratings, does it make a big difference it its monoblock? because arnt monoblock amps strictly for bass? u think one sub will do? i want to be kind of noticed on the streets too.
swez on 04/11/2009 21:58:20
With the gear you noted earlier, the KAC-8104D is a great choice. Yes, it's designed specifically for sub applications. It's also a good fit for that Pioneer sub. I've heard a single 10" sub with that amp and it sounded very solid. A single 12 will be good in a smaller car. (It won't blow your windows out, but with the windows down, the bass will carry enough to attract attention. (Sometimes the kind we don't want... thieves)
On the other topics, if you are "not passionate" about college and don't have a clue as to a major, can always take a few basic classes at a Community College, find a job for pocket money and ease into a career choice when you find something you really like and are good at.
Most young adults don't have a good picture of what their lives will be like until they've had a few years of life under the ol belt. Like you, I too floated from job to job, went back to school and worked until I had a passion to try something new. It was a long haul, but in hindsight, it worked out well for many years.
About Insurance Sales, avoid it! It pays very well after many years for those who can cut it. But these are exceptions and many have to endure little money, long hours and years of financial struggles until they can start their own biz.
The Military? If I were your Dad and you are not passionate to serve right now, I'd say hold off and keep your distance from all recruiters. We are still in an active war in Iraq and moving to Afganistan will be the next step. This could be a long and bloody fight as well. Those who join now, are likely to end up in that mess and it too will be a long battle.
This is not for everybody. Can you imagine being far from home, in the heat of battle and it's either kill or be killed? Or worse yet, get maimed and come back home with limbs missing and not getting the care you need to recover? This is happening to way too many Americans now. They went in with a mission, but came out wounded, little or no support and too many employers will not hire GI's because of the potential trama they experienced in war.
Do your homework and maybe consider serving in the USO, Red Cross, The Peace Corps or some other non-military position that supports our troops from another vantage point. These options will open your eyes to many possibilities later and you can serve in a good cause as well.
This war is not in the average American's best interests. It serves the politicians and the Military machine. What we see on TV is a BIG FAT LIE!
Yes, I respect those who serve(d) and honor their commitments and bravery. However, how many high placed politicians and power brokers will allow their kids to go into an active combat zone? (A few percent at most and few will be in combat zones) Why is that? They are only looking out for thier own best interests at the expense of the less fortunate who have few options or have bought into the Military propaganda.
IMHO, we do not belong in this war any longer. We did a job that has run its coarse. It's time to plan our exit strategy and work on the issues that bring Americas back home to work on our own dilemas. Let the people of XYZ-stan, deal with their own corruption, hostilities and the like. If the UN and Nato support the process, we should too. Right now, there's too many nations that will not commit combat troops anymore. Unfortunately, the America people have short memories and did'nt learn from Vietnam, Solmalia, Cambodia and other hot spots that failed miserably.
End Rant!
Swez
imupabove on 04/11/2009 22:11:26
yeah the world is crazy. we can sure talk about these topics soon but to my audio questions.
i was thinking in getting either two KFC-3011 or KFC-3012 in a sealed box or two Kicker 07C124 in a sealed box. but not sure what amp to power them? i was thinking the KAC-8104D? or should i just get one 12 inch sub to save money because i have that pre-fab box. i just want to be noticed a couple cars down or a block down. what do you think about those subs?
swez on 04/11/2009 23:10:51
Kicker makes some great products. However, the subs they offer, need very large boxes too. (Ported boxes are thier forte) Their box recommendations are huge and power handling for these subs degrade as larger boxes are used. Do you have space for a 5 cf box?
Also, these Kicker's are somewhat efficient subs when converting RMS power from the amp to optimal SPL numbers. The JBL sub we discussed earlier, is more efficient and needs less power/box space to obtain (Kicker states 89.1 Eff; JBL is 93.0 Eff)
Not a huge difference, but if I were specing a system on a tight budget, The Kenwood KAC-8104 and 1 JBL GTO1214D would be my choice.
Hey, you have not given any details on the box you have now as requested. Knowing the external dimensions of this box you have now, will help pick a sub that is well matched to any sub you wish to use in this project later. That Pioneer sub has a wide range of enclosure space it can work in. Knowing that parameter would help a lot!
Swez
imupabove on 04/11/2009 23:27:42
sorry, i havnt gave you the measurement of my box! i will do that tomorrow. but with that KAC-8104 and 1 JBL GTO1214D, would i be noticed on the streets you think? yeah those kicker subs need big boxes. what about the kfc-3011/3012's with the KAC-8194 with this box http://www.onlyfactorydirect.net/servlet/Detail?no=31 its only 47 bucks to ship where i live. tell me what u think?
swez on 04/12/2009 05:26:40
Hum, am good on the amp choice and maybe we will have to look at a pair of 12" subs that match the box if you can't sell it to buy another box.
Do a search for a pair of Infinity Reference 1250w subs if you keep this box. They are a good match for the box you have now. Am sure you can find these for under $65/ea with some good shopping. Stick with the KAC-8104 please.
Swez
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1081250W/Infinity-Reference-1250w.html?tp=111
imupabove on 04/12/2009 13:19:51
so how many infinity 1250w should i get? one or two? what if i get a two channel amp and get a DVC sub and i can wire down to 2 ohms. really good reviews for the infinity 1250w! thanks.
imupabove on 04/12/2009 13:41:46
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-POWER-ACOUSTIK-PS2-1250-2Ch-Car-Audio-Amplifier-Amp_W0QQitemZ230331857637QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item230331857637&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2
swez on 04/12/2009 16:26:38
If you have a dual 12" box now, (The one you linked the other day) a pair of Infinity 1250W's are a great fit. Do you have this box now? If yes, the Infinity subs are a perfect match to this box. This one:
http://www.onlyfactorydirect.net/servlet/Detail?no=31
The Kenwood KAC-8104 is a "very good fit" for these subs. The subs are 4 ohm SVC's and wire down to a perfect two ohm load. The wiring kit you mentioned will also work well with the new Pioneer HU you ordered.
Comments?
Swez
PS Stop already!!! All this flip-flopping is becoming annoying and I cannot coach a student who is constantly changing their plans. I "will not help" those who don't respect my experience, trust my plans and value my time.
FYI: Am a very straight shooter about life and matters like this. Over the years, have helped many hundreds of guys pull great systems together regardless of their budgets. Many have offered a modest donation to the site or directly to me as they save a ton of cash and misteps that would have crippled their results. (They offer as I don't ask for rewards)
I understand it's hard for some to trust folks who may have hidden motives and agendas. I am not one to take advantage of others. My desire is to help others sort out their best options, stay on budget and wind up very happy with the results. Have a blessed Easter and think things through OK?
imupabove on 04/12/2009 19:03:54
how would i wire down to 2ohm load? its only a SVC, i thought u only can do that to 4 ohms DVC subs? right? im sorry, i was going over my head and also yours. im sorry if i disrespected you, i was wondering when were going to say something about me responding with all kinds of questions and not getting to the point. i didnt mean to, if i was in your shoes id say the same thing. yes i do trust you even though i never seen or met u. well here are my options its either the infinity 1250 or the KFC-w3011. but one last question! would 2 sound louder than 1 sub with the same amp (KAC-8104D)?
imupabove on 04/12/2009 23:09:37
hey i got the specs on my box. its a squared box and it has a slanted back.
Height: 14 1/2 inches
Width 16"
Depth: 14 to 15 inches (i measured from the front to back inside the box, but it goes big to small because it is slanted, u get me? is this the depth your talking about?)
Thickness: 3/4
Tell me what sub would be good? Thanks.
swez on 04/13/2009 02:21:45
It sounds like you have a modified wedge type box here. It's difficult to tell the correct internal airspace with the details supplies, so we need to confirm this before choosing a sub. Here we take 5 main measurements to get the proper airspace. Here are the dimensions I need to help you: (External dimensions of box and wood thickness)
1. Width: =
2. Height: =
3. Depth 1 = Top of the wedge
4. Depth 2 = Bottom of the wedge
5. Thickness of wood used
Once we know these numbers, the rest is math I will do for you.
I still believe your best bet is the Kenwood KAC-8104D amp. Since the box is for a single 12" sub, we'll use a single 12" DVC sub to match the amps power and the box dimensions as needed. (4+4 DVC nets a perfect 2 ohms)
FYI: When designing a system of this scale, a single sub is plenty for rigs under 500 watts. This is compact, cost effective and will net plenty of solid bass for the $$$ involved. In systems over 800 watts RMS, 2 subs are worth considering. In this case, we'll go with one sub.
Swez
PS We need to stay the outlined course developed so far. Adding too many counter-productive options into the mix only serves to confuse, delay the process and a waste of time. (Trust this Old Man Audio as I have done this routine many times with great success to the folks who come for help)
Am not mad at you in anyway. I handle issues with others and my kids in the same manner... directly, specifically and then move on w/o holding a grudge. We call this approach "Tough Love". (Be firm, be fair and being direct are the keys to a win-win deal for all) OK, let's move on and wrap up the details as efficiently as possible.
imupabove on 04/13/2009 02:30:51
i already gave u the height, depth, and thickness.
3. Depth 1 = Top of the wedge
4. Depth 2 = Bottom of the wedge
^do mean measure from the hole to the back right top and bottom?
sorry if i sound confused :[ thanks. one subwoofer, i hope i will be noticed.
swez on 04/13/2009 02:53:00
A little confused, but this may help clarify things. (Internal dimensions as measured)
1. Width: = 16"
2. Height: = 14.5"
3. Depth 1 = 15" (Top Depth)
4. Depth 2 = 14" (Bottom Depth)
5. Thickness of wood used = 3/4"
If this is correct, that box is almost 2 cf internally. That's a large box for most 12" sealed woofers and does not seem right. Please clarify if this is correct or fill in the correct details.
Swez
imupabove on 04/13/2009 03:00:22
correct, but i dont know if the top is 15" and the bottom is 14" its a slanted back so the measurements change as u go up and down, follow me? i will check. Later on this morning, ill send a pick to you if you want. i have a great digital camera.
swez on 04/13/2009 03:07:43
Yes, I follow you and when we have a slanted panel of the same width, we measure the top depth, the bottom depth and calculate as followed:
TD + BD/2 = Nominal depth of the slanted panel.
Yes, pics would indeed help.
Swez
PS External pics are most helpful here. One shot inside is good enough.
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