Hi,just go hold of my brothers pioneer ts w305c 12" subs and built a new box for em.
Now i need to know wire gauge to use from bat to amps.
head u: pioneer deh 1900r.
front speakers running of off head u:250w 6x9".
subs 800p/400w rms 12"
amps:xpl 450w bridged 15 amp fuse,total 30 amps.
alternater max95 amps.
battery:75ah lead acid.
ford transit lwb.
any help would be nice.
Replies (7)
swez on 03/19/2009 21:10:02
Welcome to CK! (UK visitor?)
Sorry to give some bad news, but this sub pairing and mentioned amp are going to be well below potential on bass output. One can only wire 1 sub per channel to this amp and that's about 100-125 watts RMS/sub. If that is satisfactory, then a #8 gage power line and ground with a 30-40A inline fuse is adequate.
If you wanted to really step things up a few notches, have a few ideas to send your way.
Comments/Questions?
Swez
mal1k on 03/21/2009 08:22:59
thanks.
the sub and amp pairing mentioned was working fine,very loud,punchy and crisp.they were givin to me in perfect working order(never over driven)when my brother passed on.he was a bit of an audiophile so took care of his kit.
are you sure the amps are what you think they are?chrome enclosure with large xpl logo on with big fins running the length of the back.they certainly didnt seem underpowered.from england by the way,birmingham.
swez on 03/21/2009 15:36:38
The fuse rating and being a full range 2-channel amp are the items that indicate power output ability.
We know that the current draw limit is below 30 amps right? (2 x 15A fuses) The voltage supply is also limited by the vehicle's electrical supply. (13.8 - 14.4 volts are the normal range) The 3rd marker is that this is a 2 channel amplifier. (Often a Class A/B type and ~60% efficiency) To determine max power draw, we use a little math to derive power consumed and power output.
Power Consumed: Voltage x Current = Total wattage draw
14.0 x 30 = 420 Watts
Efficiency factor: Consumed wattage x eff%
420 x 0.6 = 252 watts Continous output
When using high efficiency subs, (88+ dB SPL @ 2.83 volts) this amount of power will produce good bass when the amp is bridged to a 4 ohm load. (1 pioneer sub) The Pioneer subs noted are above average efficiency. This sub?
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products/TS-W305C/print.html
The package mentioned is good for clean, punchy SQ bass and if that is the goal, no need to change a thing. If you wanted more bass on demand, use the subs and consider a Class D amp that is rated at 500-800 watts Continous/RMS at 2 ohms. This will provide efficient use of both subs and about 10 dB more bass output. (if you desire that much extra bass)
Finally, we look at the Continous or RMS wattage numbers as the main point of reference. Peak power is not a reliable as many vendors inflate that number considerably. (Dishonest marketing ploy)
Comments/Questions?
Swez
PS If you have a link to this XPL amp, I'd be happy to look and comment as needed.
Sorry to hear about your brother's passing. He left you some nice things to remember him by. Plan to do the same thing for my children. (But not right away... I hope)
mal1k on 03/22/2009 06:13:35
hi,just looked at amps,splx not xpl.logo in yellow and silver.found em on ebay but not spla450 which is the model num.
I also have a crunch 5 channel 700w amp that i no longer need(got it for my birthday 4 months ago,if you remember my suppresion problem)need to look at the spec but could i use it instead?
swez on 03/22/2009 13:18:49
Hey Mal1k,
May I suggest we look at your long-term goals for this system and work toward solutions that meet your future criteria?
Depending on your goals, budget and time-frame, this may take some time and evaluate where you wish to go. The more one plans in the initial stages, the better the outcome will be later!
Ponder that a bit as it's often best to look for the end results we desire and work backward to arrive at the details/choices that will get us there in the future.
This Crunch amp metioned, what is the model # of this amp? Knowing that, we can sift through the details and determine if this is usable for your future plans or not.
Swez
mal1k on 03/24/2009 19:05:18
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you.Work, wife, kids, dogs and then i get a chance to reply.
crunch amp is a PZI550.5.
I have the manual and it says that with 4 channels at 125 watts each the 5th channel(dedicated sub) will give 300watts.this can't be cause it's a 700watt amp.so check out these links for confusion.
http://www.autotoys.com/x/product.php?productid=8134
http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/pl/125-746724/Car-Amplifiers/Crunch-PZi550.5-Compare-Prices
I know i cant use this amp and my 2 splx amps because of ampage from the alternator(crunch is 70amp fuse)so im gonna sacrifice the crunch for my subs and maybe put it into my wifes corsa and not tell her, just for a laugh.Na.
Any how, i figure channel 5 will put out abut 200watts at 4ohms but to only one sub dagnabit.Any suggestions?
swez on 03/24/2009 20:24:36
This Crunch amp is pretty much a wash and would be fine for a modest SQ system install where bass power is not a big concern. To get the most from this Crunch amp, all speakers and sub would need to be 2 ohm units. If this amp is in good condition, selling or swapping it for something you can really use, would be a good option. If your wife likes more music power in her car, that's another option.
After looking this senario over a bit, one has to decide what the end results desired are and build a plan to get there in time and on budget too!
Here, we see a pair of decent subs and 2 power amps that are not able to deliver the power and efficiency to feed each sub. A pair of these amps will draw about 55A's at full power and delivers about 250 watts to each 4 ohm sub. That's not all bad, but only you can say if it's enough to meet your present needs.
If yes, stay put and accept that this is as good as it gets for now. If no and budget allows it, consider selling/trading your xspl amps for a Class D amp that will deliver additional clean power to these subs. That would look like an amp that can deliver 750-1000 watts RMS @ 2 ohms.
FYI: Class D amps are generally in the 80% range for efficiency. Class A/B amps are more like 60% eff. That's why Class D technology is often used in larger sub apps. (More RMS wattage for power consumed)
Finally, step back and take a deep breath for now. At least you have a working system. If you want to take the bass engine up to the next level, look for a Class D amp that meets te criteria outlined above. Have a look around at what's available in your area and share the details here so we can help you evaluate the package further.
Comments/Questions?
Swez
Now i need to know wire gauge to use from bat to amps.
head u: pioneer deh 1900r.
front speakers running of off head u:250w 6x9".
subs 800p/400w rms 12"
amps:xpl 450w bridged 15 amp fuse,total 30 amps.
alternater max95 amps.
battery:75ah lead acid.
ford transit lwb.
any help would be nice.
Replies (7)
swez on 03/19/2009 21:10:02
Welcome to CK! (UK visitor?)
Sorry to give some bad news, but this sub pairing and mentioned amp are going to be well below potential on bass output. One can only wire 1 sub per channel to this amp and that's about 100-125 watts RMS/sub. If that is satisfactory, then a #8 gage power line and ground with a 30-40A inline fuse is adequate.
If you wanted to really step things up a few notches, have a few ideas to send your way.
Comments/Questions?
Swez
mal1k on 03/21/2009 08:22:59
thanks.
the sub and amp pairing mentioned was working fine,very loud,punchy and crisp.they were givin to me in perfect working order(never over driven)when my brother passed on.he was a bit of an audiophile so took care of his kit.
are you sure the amps are what you think they are?chrome enclosure with large xpl logo on with big fins running the length of the back.they certainly didnt seem underpowered.from england by the way,birmingham.
swez on 03/21/2009 15:36:38
The fuse rating and being a full range 2-channel amp are the items that indicate power output ability.
We know that the current draw limit is below 30 amps right? (2 x 15A fuses) The voltage supply is also limited by the vehicle's electrical supply. (13.8 - 14.4 volts are the normal range) The 3rd marker is that this is a 2 channel amplifier. (Often a Class A/B type and ~60% efficiency) To determine max power draw, we use a little math to derive power consumed and power output.
Power Consumed: Voltage x Current = Total wattage draw
14.0 x 30 = 420 Watts
Efficiency factor: Consumed wattage x eff%
420 x 0.6 = 252 watts Continous output
When using high efficiency subs, (88+ dB SPL @ 2.83 volts) this amount of power will produce good bass when the amp is bridged to a 4 ohm load. (1 pioneer sub) The Pioneer subs noted are above average efficiency. This sub?
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products/TS-W305C/print.html
The package mentioned is good for clean, punchy SQ bass and if that is the goal, no need to change a thing. If you wanted more bass on demand, use the subs and consider a Class D amp that is rated at 500-800 watts Continous/RMS at 2 ohms. This will provide efficient use of both subs and about 10 dB more bass output. (if you desire that much extra bass)
Finally, we look at the Continous or RMS wattage numbers as the main point of reference. Peak power is not a reliable as many vendors inflate that number considerably. (Dishonest marketing ploy)
Comments/Questions?
Swez
PS If you have a link to this XPL amp, I'd be happy to look and comment as needed.
Sorry to hear about your brother's passing. He left you some nice things to remember him by. Plan to do the same thing for my children. (But not right away... I hope)
mal1k on 03/22/2009 06:13:35
hi,just looked at amps,splx not xpl.logo in yellow and silver.found em on ebay but not spla450 which is the model num.
I also have a crunch 5 channel 700w amp that i no longer need(got it for my birthday 4 months ago,if you remember my suppresion problem)need to look at the spec but could i use it instead?
swez on 03/22/2009 13:18:49
Hey Mal1k,
May I suggest we look at your long-term goals for this system and work toward solutions that meet your future criteria?
Depending on your goals, budget and time-frame, this may take some time and evaluate where you wish to go. The more one plans in the initial stages, the better the outcome will be later!
Ponder that a bit as it's often best to look for the end results we desire and work backward to arrive at the details/choices that will get us there in the future.
This Crunch amp metioned, what is the model # of this amp? Knowing that, we can sift through the details and determine if this is usable for your future plans or not.
Swez
mal1k on 03/24/2009 19:05:18
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you.Work, wife, kids, dogs and then i get a chance to reply.
crunch amp is a PZI550.5.
I have the manual and it says that with 4 channels at 125 watts each the 5th channel(dedicated sub) will give 300watts.this can't be cause it's a 700watt amp.so check out these links for confusion.
http://www.autotoys.com/x/product.php?productid=8134
http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/pl/125-746724/Car-Amplifiers/Crunch-PZi550.5-Compare-Prices
I know i cant use this amp and my 2 splx amps because of ampage from the alternator(crunch is 70amp fuse)so im gonna sacrifice the crunch for my subs and maybe put it into my wifes corsa and not tell her, just for a laugh.Na.
Any how, i figure channel 5 will put out abut 200watts at 4ohms but to only one sub dagnabit.Any suggestions?
swez on 03/24/2009 20:24:36
This Crunch amp is pretty much a wash and would be fine for a modest SQ system install where bass power is not a big concern. To get the most from this Crunch amp, all speakers and sub would need to be 2 ohm units. If this amp is in good condition, selling or swapping it for something you can really use, would be a good option. If your wife likes more music power in her car, that's another option.
After looking this senario over a bit, one has to decide what the end results desired are and build a plan to get there in time and on budget too!
Here, we see a pair of decent subs and 2 power amps that are not able to deliver the power and efficiency to feed each sub. A pair of these amps will draw about 55A's at full power and delivers about 250 watts to each 4 ohm sub. That's not all bad, but only you can say if it's enough to meet your present needs.
If yes, stay put and accept that this is as good as it gets for now. If no and budget allows it, consider selling/trading your xspl amps for a Class D amp that will deliver additional clean power to these subs. That would look like an amp that can deliver 750-1000 watts RMS @ 2 ohms.
FYI: Class D amps are generally in the 80% range for efficiency. Class A/B amps are more like 60% eff. That's why Class D technology is often used in larger sub apps. (More RMS wattage for power consumed)
Finally, step back and take a deep breath for now. At least you have a working system. If you want to take the bass engine up to the next level, look for a Class D amp that meets te criteria outlined above. Have a look around at what's available in your area and share the details here so we can help you evaluate the package further.
Comments/Questions?
Swez
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