I covered the amp rack and installed it today. I need a better camera or need to learn how to use mine so excuse the pic quality but whatcha think?
I am finishing another piece that goes into one of the jump seat locations to hold the changer, z-overs and a pg piece but that should not take more then a few days, once I get done lookin at it.
Replies (19)
ttocs on 03/10/2009 19:04:48
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3237206/4
swez on 03/10/2009 19:16:40
Yep, that's about the best place I could find for a pair of JL Slash amps to hide them too. Yours turned out well and so did the clients' amp stack.
Did you have a tough time pulling the rear seat backrest off its moorings? (We sure did... well hidden spring clips)
Nice work!
Swez
ttocs on 03/10/2009 20:15:24
The truck is a 97, and well before the 3rd door era or the crew -cab so the rear passenger seats are jump-seats that pop out of the side of the truck and directly face each other. Because of the bulge that hides the amp the seats will not fit back in but I never enjoyed anyone back there anyway as all they would do is complain and ask how much longer it would take. I can remember one passeger that liked it, but he was 11 and small for his size so it was plenty of room for him....
One of the sides is going to house the cd changer, x-overs and another pg piece, I will build another housing similar on the other side for first aid kit, fire ext, and other safety junk.
swez on 03/10/2009 21:02:40
I see this is a very different animal then a 2003 F-150 Super Crew we did. In your case, the rear seats are optional. We did not have that option. This sounds like a very nice upgrade when you're done and hopefully adequate space back there to navigate?
Once we figured out how to release the rear seat back, it exposed a mounted cover to hide the rear wall. We installed sound dampener on the entire back wall and all door panels.
From there, I mapped out the best place for the amps to be mounted, pre-wired and then installed them. Finally, we measured the rear wall cover and cut out windows, (like you did) and reinstalled the cover. It was time consuming and tedious for a less experienced installers, but in the end, the job was clean, stealthy and the only thing that tipped off we had done anything, was the Nac HU and 5 channel EQ/Line Driver in the factory radio pocket. (That turned out sweet)
Admittedly, we worked at a moderate pace and it took 2.5 long days to complete the install process. But when all was tweaked and all panels were reinstalled, the client and his buddy were well pleased with the results and I was too. (Lots of MB punch in back, very good front stage mix and the sub under the rear seat pounded out strong bass too)
Frankly, this was the most demanding install I had ever done and it may be my last at that level, unless the bug bites me to do something on my own ride.
That's not likely this year as fly fishing season is almost here,
(4/1/09 is the Trout opener)
Swez
ttocs on 03/11/2009 01:30:55
its been a while since I did one of those and at the time I was working with a guy that knew all the tricks that needed to be known. of course in a shop with a pro we hammered out a 2 amp, 6 channel system in a day.
I have time now to work at this project and the only thing I have been working around is my stomach crap. It has not been too bad and I have been doing a couple of hours each day and making steady progress.
ttocs on 03/11/2009 12:40:35
discovered my first problem last night on it first trip out with the rack. I had wondered if the temp gauge I am using to monitor the amps temp would go above 111 as after pushing it for some time with the windows up it would not go any higher. Last night after jammin it for maybe 45 mins I looked up and saw the gauge flip from 132 to 133...... I pulled the cover off of the amp and could feel heat comming off of it. I was confused as I had worked with the ZX and Ti series of these amps and done some similar installs and they never had a problem drawing in fresh air from the sides and blowing it out the top with the fan. I made some 4 inch holes in the cover boards above the fans to allow air to flow and I was sure it would slow the air a bit going through the material. The material I covered it in was fairly thin and would still allow air to pass. I realized that the the design of this amp being two ZX amps under one cover meant that half of the heatsinks in the middle required air to be drawn through the top of the amps perferated metal design and that was covered up by my coverboard. I will probably tear the material off, make some larger holes in the middle to allow more air and then recover it. Just when you though you were almost done....
Victor on 03/12/2009 01:42:53
use a push pull configuration with two 12v fans, one getting cooler air in, and the other diagonally across letting the hot air out...
just making bigger holes wont help a lot.
Victor...
ttocs on 03/12/2009 10:50:17
I pulled the covering off of the cover yesterday, drilled 3 more 4" holes across the mesh part of the top to allow air to go into the center portion of the amp. Took it for a little spin last night and it was much cooler around the 120 degree mark but this is the cool season. I know that some day in the summer here I will come back to my truck to find the interior of the truck at 120 so it would ounly go up from there. I was hoping to avoid the fan idea as there is not much space under the rack/cover and there really is only enough space for a cross-flow or squirrel cage fan and they are not cheap. I went to a huge electronics store last night and found some pc fans that are only 1" tall and move 25 cfm that I think will work. I normally agree and do the push-pull methode but I am questioning that on this amp because of the way it normally works. The fans are mounted top/center and pulls air in from directly left and right of them across the heat sink. I am torn between having them both face into it and just blow as much air as they can into the middle and doing push-pull. I might borrow my nieghbors kids cigarette today to see exactly how the air is moving now, as well as to some tests to see which might work better once they are mounted. IT woud not be hard to just flip the polarity of one of them and do some quick tests to see what happens.
swez on 03/12/2009 13:04:29
This is a pickle to play with and as you say, limited space and more heat in the summer will only make matters worse. One thing that would be good to know, how much ambient heat does it take before either amp goes into thermal protection mode? A hair dryer may give you that answer. Once you know the temperature level it takes before the amps shut off, then a good fix is the next step. The thermal couple will be your measuring stick. The shut off point needs to be determined and then a remedy to pull enough heat out to remain "X" degrees below that under the most severe conditions. (Late summer)
This may sound nutty, but have you ever looked at these compact coolers that plug into a cigarrette lighter? They have the ability to heat or cool, depending on polarity. It's a large aluminum heat sink type device you can buy and requires a fan to distribute heat or cool air into a 2 cf chamber and chill it down to about 40 degrees. They work very well with one exception... condensation! You'd have to fabricate a condensation drip tray and maybe vent the condensation through a drip line through the rear floor. (Same idea as the AC condensation duct work)
You can buy this chiller/heater, (Thermal Electric) device at Coleman. They are not cheap, ($65.00 YIKES... they have really gone up) but it may help on long drives. Those small computer fans may help too as the more air that passes over this chiller, the more cooling power it will deliver.
What say you?
Swez
ttocs on 03/12/2009 15:01:41
the biggest problem is that I have probably less then 3" of space between the board and the back wall. The fans I found are a different design and super thin. I did discover that they only turn in one difection though so I guess that will settle my push-pull question.
swez on 03/12/2009 21:15:34
These fans mentioned, seem like a good option. Since they are DC, if you wire them up in reverse polarity, will they do either push or pull? If that proves true, you can fabricate a push-pull air flow system.
Also, if they are only one-way, (On-ee Way like some Indian street signs) LOL, can you invision a bank of 3-4 fans on a plexiglass shroud to get the job done?
Comments?
Swez
Victor on 03/13/2009 05:06:00
if they are one way.... just invert the 2nd fan and install it ... GRIN
ttocs on 03/13/2009 10:26:02
these fans are made more as blowers. They are made to mount in an external empty slot on the back of your computer and suck air out of the computer. The are 6" x 1" x 4" and they suck from the wide side(6x4) and blow out of the 1x4 side and are made to only work one way. I tried them backwards on my power supply and they didn't move at all.
I ran out of material to cover the last pieces with, so I was on a mission to find a match to it yesterday. after 3hrs, and 4 fabric stores I could't find a match, but found a replacement material that is a different stich that is thinner so I bought 4 yrds of to be sure I had enough. The leds came in yesterday(6.5 ft worth) so I pulled the cover off to re-cover it and to mount the fans and leds. I got everything mounted and just need to do the wiring, and take some pics.
I also decided to add a pin-stripe that goes around the scott logo and runs horozontal to the into the side pieces. I glued a piece of nylon string to the covers so that when I cover them with the new material there will be a raised line in it.
Victor on 03/13/2009 11:17:17
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=259-125
use these...
or have a look at this..
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=305-210
ttocs on 03/13/2009 23:58:23
the determining factor in the choice of fan was the size of the area I had to work with. I needed it to fit under the amp rack and that was only as high as the amp(3" at the tallest) and then it slopes back closer to the wall on the sides. I went with 2 of these as the price of $10 each seemed like I could give it a try. They are very quiet, only 1 inch tall use less the 1/3 amp.
http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=ODU=
I recovered the amp rack today. I am happy that it came out a little better this time, practice I guess... The pinstripe looks real clean too, I look forward to installing it and seeing it lit up for the first time. I'll update the page tomorrow.
swez on 03/14/2009 12:19:14
See what you mean about the fan system. You did mention the squirrel cage earlier and these are one way fans. (The picture helped a lot)
Nice and quiet too!
Good luck,
Swez
ttocs on 03/14/2009 14:14:56
I put everything back in and fired up the lights! Cool blue even during the moring so I know this will be obnoxious at night. Thankfully I installed a switch that turns the lights out when the cover is in place as well as a switch in the consol to turn the off if I want. This was my first time doing a raised line and now my only regret is that I didn't do another line or two above and below it. It adds a nice tough and breaks up the big grey wall.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3237206/4
swez on 03/14/2009 14:32:07
If the LED's are too bright, consider using a "pot" in place of the dash switch to tone down the brightness as needed.
Many "pots" have an on/off switch too. The trick is figuring out what value pot to use here. (Similar to the dash ILL pot idea) It would be a low wattage pot and range from 10KOhms to 47 KOhms in value.
What do you think?
Swez
PS Looks pretty cool already, but a "dimmer Pot" might be your solution.
ttocs on 03/15/2009 07:44:15
I considered pots but decided to wait to see what it looked like at night. I am glad I waited as it looks great at night. I only left 1/4" around the outside of the amp before the top of the amprack starts. I mounted the leds as far away from the back wall while still behind the cover board so that you can't actually see the individual lights but the light they give off. Because of this it gives off a VERY strong, although very small slit of light that doesn't even go past the amp. It reflects off of the amp and then out but there is not a blue shadow on the floor the way I was afraid there might be. The three power leds are brighter then the 6 foot of led string.
VERY HAPPY!
today I will start covering the housing that is going around the cd changer in the jump seat. I will continue that raised line across to this piece and probably figure out some way to make it end cleanly.
I am finishing another piece that goes into one of the jump seat locations to hold the changer, z-overs and a pg piece but that should not take more then a few days, once I get done lookin at it.
Replies (19)
ttocs on 03/10/2009 19:04:48
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3237206/4
swez on 03/10/2009 19:16:40
Yep, that's about the best place I could find for a pair of JL Slash amps to hide them too. Yours turned out well and so did the clients' amp stack.
Did you have a tough time pulling the rear seat backrest off its moorings? (We sure did... well hidden spring clips)
Nice work!
Swez
ttocs on 03/10/2009 20:15:24
The truck is a 97, and well before the 3rd door era or the crew -cab so the rear passenger seats are jump-seats that pop out of the side of the truck and directly face each other. Because of the bulge that hides the amp the seats will not fit back in but I never enjoyed anyone back there anyway as all they would do is complain and ask how much longer it would take. I can remember one passeger that liked it, but he was 11 and small for his size so it was plenty of room for him....
One of the sides is going to house the cd changer, x-overs and another pg piece, I will build another housing similar on the other side for first aid kit, fire ext, and other safety junk.
swez on 03/10/2009 21:02:40
I see this is a very different animal then a 2003 F-150 Super Crew we did. In your case, the rear seats are optional. We did not have that option. This sounds like a very nice upgrade when you're done and hopefully adequate space back there to navigate?
Once we figured out how to release the rear seat back, it exposed a mounted cover to hide the rear wall. We installed sound dampener on the entire back wall and all door panels.
From there, I mapped out the best place for the amps to be mounted, pre-wired and then installed them. Finally, we measured the rear wall cover and cut out windows, (like you did) and reinstalled the cover. It was time consuming and tedious for a less experienced installers, but in the end, the job was clean, stealthy and the only thing that tipped off we had done anything, was the Nac HU and 5 channel EQ/Line Driver in the factory radio pocket. (That turned out sweet)
Admittedly, we worked at a moderate pace and it took 2.5 long days to complete the install process. But when all was tweaked and all panels were reinstalled, the client and his buddy were well pleased with the results and I was too. (Lots of MB punch in back, very good front stage mix and the sub under the rear seat pounded out strong bass too)
Frankly, this was the most demanding install I had ever done and it may be my last at that level, unless the bug bites me to do something on my own ride.
That's not likely this year as fly fishing season is almost here,
(4/1/09 is the Trout opener)
Swez
ttocs on 03/11/2009 01:30:55
its been a while since I did one of those and at the time I was working with a guy that knew all the tricks that needed to be known. of course in a shop with a pro we hammered out a 2 amp, 6 channel system in a day.
I have time now to work at this project and the only thing I have been working around is my stomach crap. It has not been too bad and I have been doing a couple of hours each day and making steady progress.
ttocs on 03/11/2009 12:40:35
discovered my first problem last night on it first trip out with the rack. I had wondered if the temp gauge I am using to monitor the amps temp would go above 111 as after pushing it for some time with the windows up it would not go any higher. Last night after jammin it for maybe 45 mins I looked up and saw the gauge flip from 132 to 133...... I pulled the cover off of the amp and could feel heat comming off of it. I was confused as I had worked with the ZX and Ti series of these amps and done some similar installs and they never had a problem drawing in fresh air from the sides and blowing it out the top with the fan. I made some 4 inch holes in the cover boards above the fans to allow air to flow and I was sure it would slow the air a bit going through the material. The material I covered it in was fairly thin and would still allow air to pass. I realized that the the design of this amp being two ZX amps under one cover meant that half of the heatsinks in the middle required air to be drawn through the top of the amps perferated metal design and that was covered up by my coverboard. I will probably tear the material off, make some larger holes in the middle to allow more air and then recover it. Just when you though you were almost done....
Victor on 03/12/2009 01:42:53
use a push pull configuration with two 12v fans, one getting cooler air in, and the other diagonally across letting the hot air out...
just making bigger holes wont help a lot.
Victor...
ttocs on 03/12/2009 10:50:17
I pulled the covering off of the cover yesterday, drilled 3 more 4" holes across the mesh part of the top to allow air to go into the center portion of the amp. Took it for a little spin last night and it was much cooler around the 120 degree mark but this is the cool season. I know that some day in the summer here I will come back to my truck to find the interior of the truck at 120 so it would ounly go up from there. I was hoping to avoid the fan idea as there is not much space under the rack/cover and there really is only enough space for a cross-flow or squirrel cage fan and they are not cheap. I went to a huge electronics store last night and found some pc fans that are only 1" tall and move 25 cfm that I think will work. I normally agree and do the push-pull methode but I am questioning that on this amp because of the way it normally works. The fans are mounted top/center and pulls air in from directly left and right of them across the heat sink. I am torn between having them both face into it and just blow as much air as they can into the middle and doing push-pull. I might borrow my nieghbors kids cigarette today to see exactly how the air is moving now, as well as to some tests to see which might work better once they are mounted. IT woud not be hard to just flip the polarity of one of them and do some quick tests to see what happens.
swez on 03/12/2009 13:04:29
This is a pickle to play with and as you say, limited space and more heat in the summer will only make matters worse. One thing that would be good to know, how much ambient heat does it take before either amp goes into thermal protection mode? A hair dryer may give you that answer. Once you know the temperature level it takes before the amps shut off, then a good fix is the next step. The thermal couple will be your measuring stick. The shut off point needs to be determined and then a remedy to pull enough heat out to remain "X" degrees below that under the most severe conditions. (Late summer)
This may sound nutty, but have you ever looked at these compact coolers that plug into a cigarrette lighter? They have the ability to heat or cool, depending on polarity. It's a large aluminum heat sink type device you can buy and requires a fan to distribute heat or cool air into a 2 cf chamber and chill it down to about 40 degrees. They work very well with one exception... condensation! You'd have to fabricate a condensation drip tray and maybe vent the condensation through a drip line through the rear floor. (Same idea as the AC condensation duct work)
You can buy this chiller/heater, (Thermal Electric) device at Coleman. They are not cheap, ($65.00 YIKES... they have really gone up) but it may help on long drives. Those small computer fans may help too as the more air that passes over this chiller, the more cooling power it will deliver.
What say you?
Swez
ttocs on 03/12/2009 15:01:41
the biggest problem is that I have probably less then 3" of space between the board and the back wall. The fans I found are a different design and super thin. I did discover that they only turn in one difection though so I guess that will settle my push-pull question.
swez on 03/12/2009 21:15:34
These fans mentioned, seem like a good option. Since they are DC, if you wire them up in reverse polarity, will they do either push or pull? If that proves true, you can fabricate a push-pull air flow system.
Also, if they are only one-way, (On-ee Way like some Indian street signs) LOL, can you invision a bank of 3-4 fans on a plexiglass shroud to get the job done?
Comments?
Swez
Victor on 03/13/2009 05:06:00
if they are one way.... just invert the 2nd fan and install it ... GRIN
ttocs on 03/13/2009 10:26:02
these fans are made more as blowers. They are made to mount in an external empty slot on the back of your computer and suck air out of the computer. The are 6" x 1" x 4" and they suck from the wide side(6x4) and blow out of the 1x4 side and are made to only work one way. I tried them backwards on my power supply and they didn't move at all.
I ran out of material to cover the last pieces with, so I was on a mission to find a match to it yesterday. after 3hrs, and 4 fabric stores I could't find a match, but found a replacement material that is a different stich that is thinner so I bought 4 yrds of to be sure I had enough. The leds came in yesterday(6.5 ft worth) so I pulled the cover off to re-cover it and to mount the fans and leds. I got everything mounted and just need to do the wiring, and take some pics.
I also decided to add a pin-stripe that goes around the scott logo and runs horozontal to the into the side pieces. I glued a piece of nylon string to the covers so that when I cover them with the new material there will be a raised line in it.
Victor on 03/13/2009 11:17:17
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=259-125
use these...
or have a look at this..
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=305-210
ttocs on 03/13/2009 23:58:23
the determining factor in the choice of fan was the size of the area I had to work with. I needed it to fit under the amp rack and that was only as high as the amp(3" at the tallest) and then it slopes back closer to the wall on the sides. I went with 2 of these as the price of $10 each seemed like I could give it a try. They are very quiet, only 1 inch tall use less the 1/3 amp.
http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=ODU=
I recovered the amp rack today. I am happy that it came out a little better this time, practice I guess... The pinstripe looks real clean too, I look forward to installing it and seeing it lit up for the first time. I'll update the page tomorrow.
swez on 03/14/2009 12:19:14
See what you mean about the fan system. You did mention the squirrel cage earlier and these are one way fans. (The picture helped a lot)
Nice and quiet too!
Good luck,
Swez
ttocs on 03/14/2009 14:14:56
I put everything back in and fired up the lights! Cool blue even during the moring so I know this will be obnoxious at night. Thankfully I installed a switch that turns the lights out when the cover is in place as well as a switch in the consol to turn the off if I want. This was my first time doing a raised line and now my only regret is that I didn't do another line or two above and below it. It adds a nice tough and breaks up the big grey wall.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3237206/4
swez on 03/14/2009 14:32:07
If the LED's are too bright, consider using a "pot" in place of the dash switch to tone down the brightness as needed.
Many "pots" have an on/off switch too. The trick is figuring out what value pot to use here. (Similar to the dash ILL pot idea) It would be a low wattage pot and range from 10KOhms to 47 KOhms in value.
What do you think?
Swez
PS Looks pretty cool already, but a "dimmer Pot" might be your solution.
ttocs on 03/15/2009 07:44:15
I considered pots but decided to wait to see what it looked like at night. I am glad I waited as it looks great at night. I only left 1/4" around the outside of the amp before the top of the amprack starts. I mounted the leds as far away from the back wall while still behind the cover board so that you can't actually see the individual lights but the light they give off. Because of this it gives off a VERY strong, although very small slit of light that doesn't even go past the amp. It reflects off of the amp and then out but there is not a blue shadow on the floor the way I was afraid there might be. The three power leds are brighter then the 6 foot of led string.
VERY HAPPY!
today I will start covering the housing that is going around the cd changer in the jump seat. I will continue that raised line across to this piece and probably figure out some way to make it end cleanly.
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