Swez.
The amp I have is a Kenwood KAC-823. I want to use this on the one JL 10". From left to right it reads (RCA Jacks) Line in - Line out
on left side of RCA's is says mono. Then GND P.CON, Then (Tri-Mode/Mono with +L-R(left side) -R+R with+R-R for bridged.
Then GND and BATT How should I set this up to power one sub?
I want to then buy a 500w 4 channel for the other speakers. Do you think this setup would sound ok?
Replies (11)
swez on 02/23/2009 22:30:23
Cannot find any meaningful specs and details on that amp. Do you have a manual link to it? What are the fuse ratings in this amp? (30 ampere fuse?) I did find a manual for this model.
If using a 4 ohm JL sub, you can bridge the amp and use it for the JL sub. (Model # of the JL sub would help too) They make a lot of versions and discontinued versions too.
http://www.retrevo.com/d/ds/progress?doc=897fdc937d1d54d9c912de42c5a61391
As for feeding the sub amp's audio input side, MONO is preferred. (That's Left channel only per manual)
From what I can see here, this amp when bridged MONO will deliver a solid 180-200 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. Not bad for a daily driver bass engine. It's max current consumption is a meager 25 A's and easy on the vehicle electricals. If you can use a ported box, the low end bass will be a few dB stronger too.
As for a 4 channel amp to match power of this sub amp, 50 watts RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms is plenty. (Especially since you will be limited to 5-1/4" speakers in front and about the same in the rear pillars)
Comments?
Swez
Scrandal on 02/23/2009 22:53:34
Thank Swez..I do graphic designs if you need anything, let me know.
randyc@cebridge.net
swez on 02/24/2009 03:43:31
Thanks Randy! Do you do business cards?
Also, were you the fellow who asked if I owned my own shop a while back? The answer is not technically speaking, but have installed a few nice rigs over the years for others and though I don't like the physical gymnastics, (Feet above the front seat and head under the dash) I'll do it to get the job none right. At 6'3" and 225 lbs, it ain't pretty or phun. But if that's what it takes, we do it.
My twin brother, (Dale) owns his own biz and I have done many Pro, Live and Commercial Audio installs and enclosure builds with him over the past 15 years. I can't count how many stage wedges, near-field fill and bass boxes we have built over the years.
Dale is very good at this kind of stuff and I've learned a lot from him as we do various projects when he needs extra hands. His mix of biz has changed a lot over the past 10 years. It's more Commercial/Industrial audio, a few live concerts a year and he gets a few large club installs every so often. We just wrapped up a very large club install last month for a grand opening at the end of January of a new Teen Club.
Whew... we did a lot of rigging of large full-range boxes in the main floor, an overflow area and a VIP room where the DJ works and four 2x15" woofer boxes, (8 JBL 2226 H woofers) in strategic placements on the main floor, overflow area and one pair in the VIP room.
The real bass engine for this install employes 3 Community Light & Sound dual 18" woofer enclosures under the main stage. They are running at 20-60 Hz range for the low thunder, while the dual 15's handle the 60-120 Hz range.The low/Mid/Highs are bi-amped for maximum punch and clarity. (8 of those flying from a truss ceiling common in many large bars and restaurants) That was fun hanging, aiming and wire runs to each zone.
The amp rack uses 13 QSC amps and 3 more remote QSC amps
near the bass bins in the main room and VIP Room. We must have run over 3,000 feet of speaker and signal lines on this project.
Yep, I love doing these large scale jobs and the pay is very good. However, being an older guy, (+50) it takes a lot out of a person to do this for more than 8 hours at a stint. All the climbing, lifting and moving big stuff around, is a younger mans' game. Work smart when possible, but even then, it still brutal on the body. Hehe
Hope that answers your questions,
Swez ;-)
Scrandal on 02/24/2009 11:29:49
Swez..that's cool. I am also over 50. I am a retired Fireman/Paramedic. I raced Funny Cars in the 70's. I have built and painted custom cars for 30 years. I play drums in a band and love music. I can do cards. Let me know if you need anything.
Be Safe,
Randy
swez on 02/24/2009 13:27:10
Interesting there Randy.... Funny Cars, Fireman/Parametic, Musician and now some mobile audio. We have a few things in common. Creative, help others and like living on the edgy side of life at times. LOL Sure do miss playing bass and would be very rusty by now.
How do you like semi-retirement? Hopefully you're still healthy, able to do various hobbies and such? This band you play in... what kind of music do you guys do these days?
Best regards to a fellow Half-Century Club,
Dave
Scrandal on 02/24/2009 14:27:07
I was injured in a Church fire. I am getting better. We play classic rock. Some new stuff. Swez, I read the manual on the Kenwood amp. It said you can run it in Tri mode. Is this a ok thing to do? What speaker could I put in the rear of this truck to gain as much mid bass as possible?
swez on 02/24/2009 16:25:05
Tri-Mode is an odd animal to work with as the woofer really suffers the lack of adequate power. It's an option, but not as good as a dedicated amplifier for the Mids/Highs and Sub(s).
Was reading that manual last night to see what it really can do. From the options they listed, this amp would be adequate to power your JL sub. It would also be adequate to power the front stage speakers. (But not both in Tri-Mode)
If you wanted to try it in Tri-Mode, why not? You'll need passive filters for the Mid/Highs and coils for the sub. The problem I see is a general lack of bass when doing this configuration. It's there, but just barely as bass speakers are so inefficient compared to full range speakers.
The Sony 6.5" speakers up front should give good MB/MR performance in the front stage of this truck. To obtain more, amping them will help a lot. As for the rear stage, these are mainly rear fill. Do you think you can find adequate space for 2-way 6x9's back there and amping them modestly as well. This would improve MB/MR performance notably from the rear stage and the sub fills in the lows.
Consider a modest 4 channel Kenwood amp that matches your 823 series. Use the 823 for your JL sub and the 4 channel for front & rear stages. (45-50 watts RMS x 4 channels is plenty)
What say you?
Dave
PS We all wish you a speedy and complete recovery from your injuries. It's not easy as we get older and have to adapt to sudden or prolonged health changes. Just keep fighting back, one day at a time. Am there too and some days are a real struggle to make any real progress. But we press on, fight the good fight and good things come in the process. Amen?
Scrandal on 02/24/2009 16:39:45
Thank you Dave....you hit it right on the head. It seems your strong as an ox and twenty, you then sleep and when you wake up your 52. When I was young I could not understand when the older ones said how time flies. I now understand completely. I think I can get 6x9's in the rear. The rear panel has a smaller speaker cover but I think the sound would resonate even so. I will do what you said and run the one Kenwood and get another for the mids and hights. Thank you so much. You are a great guy. I would love to meet you some day. Dave..try "Dreamer" from Supertramp. It is a great song to try on your systems.
Randy
swez on 02/24/2009 19:40:27
Oh yeah... have that on file in my collection too as a great oldie but goodie. 'School', 'Bloody Well Right' and several others too. Classic Rock and some of the best recording techniques in that era too!
Another good one is by Styx... "Too much Time On my Hands" and I forget the name of the other... "Why must you be such and angry young man... you're future looks quite bright too me"... ("Foolin' Yourself")
Yep, 25... 35... 50... hike... in the blink of an eye. The kids are growing up fast, the career has either peaked or tanked and now we have to face a new set of internal/external challenges. Oh brother, this is not an easy time for anyone I know.
Thanks for the kind words and yes, if we ever did meet, am sure we'd have a lot to talk about too. What other hobbies and interests do we have in common? (Music, fishing, golf, hiking, camping, canoeing and many outdoor activities here... how 'bout you?)
Swez
PS Yes, 6x9's or 6x8's ovals would work too. It just depends on the working space available. Keep that option open in think what's possible, not the hinerances...YES?
I can just tell we are kindred spirits with a lot of life under our belts to remain silent.
Scrandal on 02/24/2009 21:04:02
I'm in Dallas. Leaving in the morning for Miami. Email me. I get back with you on Monday. Have a good one. Thanks for everything.
Randy ( randyc@cebridge.net)
swez on 02/25/2009 11:11:08
OK, e-mail sent. Enjoy your week and we'll catch up later!
Dave
The amp I have is a Kenwood KAC-823. I want to use this on the one JL 10". From left to right it reads (RCA Jacks) Line in - Line out
on left side of RCA's is says mono. Then GND P.CON, Then (Tri-Mode/Mono with +L-R(left side) -R+R with+R-R for bridged.
Then GND and BATT How should I set this up to power one sub?
I want to then buy a 500w 4 channel for the other speakers. Do you think this setup would sound ok?
Replies (11)
swez on 02/23/2009 22:30:23
Cannot find any meaningful specs and details on that amp. Do you have a manual link to it? What are the fuse ratings in this amp? (30 ampere fuse?) I did find a manual for this model.
If using a 4 ohm JL sub, you can bridge the amp and use it for the JL sub. (Model # of the JL sub would help too) They make a lot of versions and discontinued versions too.
http://www.retrevo.com/d/ds/progress?doc=897fdc937d1d54d9c912de42c5a61391
As for feeding the sub amp's audio input side, MONO is preferred. (That's Left channel only per manual)
From what I can see here, this amp when bridged MONO will deliver a solid 180-200 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. Not bad for a daily driver bass engine. It's max current consumption is a meager 25 A's and easy on the vehicle electricals. If you can use a ported box, the low end bass will be a few dB stronger too.
As for a 4 channel amp to match power of this sub amp, 50 watts RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms is plenty. (Especially since you will be limited to 5-1/4" speakers in front and about the same in the rear pillars)
Comments?
Swez
Scrandal on 02/23/2009 22:53:34
Thank Swez..I do graphic designs if you need anything, let me know.
randyc@cebridge.net
swez on 02/24/2009 03:43:31
Thanks Randy! Do you do business cards?
Also, were you the fellow who asked if I owned my own shop a while back? The answer is not technically speaking, but have installed a few nice rigs over the years for others and though I don't like the physical gymnastics, (Feet above the front seat and head under the dash) I'll do it to get the job none right. At 6'3" and 225 lbs, it ain't pretty or phun. But if that's what it takes, we do it.
My twin brother, (Dale) owns his own biz and I have done many Pro, Live and Commercial Audio installs and enclosure builds with him over the past 15 years. I can't count how many stage wedges, near-field fill and bass boxes we have built over the years.
Dale is very good at this kind of stuff and I've learned a lot from him as we do various projects when he needs extra hands. His mix of biz has changed a lot over the past 10 years. It's more Commercial/Industrial audio, a few live concerts a year and he gets a few large club installs every so often. We just wrapped up a very large club install last month for a grand opening at the end of January of a new Teen Club.
Whew... we did a lot of rigging of large full-range boxes in the main floor, an overflow area and a VIP room where the DJ works and four 2x15" woofer boxes, (8 JBL 2226 H woofers) in strategic placements on the main floor, overflow area and one pair in the VIP room.
The real bass engine for this install employes 3 Community Light & Sound dual 18" woofer enclosures under the main stage. They are running at 20-60 Hz range for the low thunder, while the dual 15's handle the 60-120 Hz range.The low/Mid/Highs are bi-amped for maximum punch and clarity. (8 of those flying from a truss ceiling common in many large bars and restaurants) That was fun hanging, aiming and wire runs to each zone.
The amp rack uses 13 QSC amps and 3 more remote QSC amps
near the bass bins in the main room and VIP Room. We must have run over 3,000 feet of speaker and signal lines on this project.
Yep, I love doing these large scale jobs and the pay is very good. However, being an older guy, (+50) it takes a lot out of a person to do this for more than 8 hours at a stint. All the climbing, lifting and moving big stuff around, is a younger mans' game. Work smart when possible, but even then, it still brutal on the body. Hehe
Hope that answers your questions,
Swez ;-)
Scrandal on 02/24/2009 11:29:49
Swez..that's cool. I am also over 50. I am a retired Fireman/Paramedic. I raced Funny Cars in the 70's. I have built and painted custom cars for 30 years. I play drums in a band and love music. I can do cards. Let me know if you need anything.
Be Safe,
Randy
swez on 02/24/2009 13:27:10
Interesting there Randy.... Funny Cars, Fireman/Parametic, Musician and now some mobile audio. We have a few things in common. Creative, help others and like living on the edgy side of life at times. LOL Sure do miss playing bass and would be very rusty by now.
How do you like semi-retirement? Hopefully you're still healthy, able to do various hobbies and such? This band you play in... what kind of music do you guys do these days?
Best regards to a fellow Half-Century Club,
Dave
Scrandal on 02/24/2009 14:27:07
I was injured in a Church fire. I am getting better. We play classic rock. Some new stuff. Swez, I read the manual on the Kenwood amp. It said you can run it in Tri mode. Is this a ok thing to do? What speaker could I put in the rear of this truck to gain as much mid bass as possible?
swez on 02/24/2009 16:25:05
Tri-Mode is an odd animal to work with as the woofer really suffers the lack of adequate power. It's an option, but not as good as a dedicated amplifier for the Mids/Highs and Sub(s).
Was reading that manual last night to see what it really can do. From the options they listed, this amp would be adequate to power your JL sub. It would also be adequate to power the front stage speakers. (But not both in Tri-Mode)
If you wanted to try it in Tri-Mode, why not? You'll need passive filters for the Mid/Highs and coils for the sub. The problem I see is a general lack of bass when doing this configuration. It's there, but just barely as bass speakers are so inefficient compared to full range speakers.
The Sony 6.5" speakers up front should give good MB/MR performance in the front stage of this truck. To obtain more, amping them will help a lot. As for the rear stage, these are mainly rear fill. Do you think you can find adequate space for 2-way 6x9's back there and amping them modestly as well. This would improve MB/MR performance notably from the rear stage and the sub fills in the lows.
Consider a modest 4 channel Kenwood amp that matches your 823 series. Use the 823 for your JL sub and the 4 channel for front & rear stages. (45-50 watts RMS x 4 channels is plenty)
What say you?
Dave
PS We all wish you a speedy and complete recovery from your injuries. It's not easy as we get older and have to adapt to sudden or prolonged health changes. Just keep fighting back, one day at a time. Am there too and some days are a real struggle to make any real progress. But we press on, fight the good fight and good things come in the process. Amen?
Scrandal on 02/24/2009 16:39:45
Thank you Dave....you hit it right on the head. It seems your strong as an ox and twenty, you then sleep and when you wake up your 52. When I was young I could not understand when the older ones said how time flies. I now understand completely. I think I can get 6x9's in the rear. The rear panel has a smaller speaker cover but I think the sound would resonate even so. I will do what you said and run the one Kenwood and get another for the mids and hights. Thank you so much. You are a great guy. I would love to meet you some day. Dave..try "Dreamer" from Supertramp. It is a great song to try on your systems.
Randy
swez on 02/24/2009 19:40:27
Oh yeah... have that on file in my collection too as a great oldie but goodie. 'School', 'Bloody Well Right' and several others too. Classic Rock and some of the best recording techniques in that era too!
Another good one is by Styx... "Too much Time On my Hands" and I forget the name of the other... "Why must you be such and angry young man... you're future looks quite bright too me"... ("Foolin' Yourself")
Yep, 25... 35... 50... hike... in the blink of an eye. The kids are growing up fast, the career has either peaked or tanked and now we have to face a new set of internal/external challenges. Oh brother, this is not an easy time for anyone I know.
Thanks for the kind words and yes, if we ever did meet, am sure we'd have a lot to talk about too. What other hobbies and interests do we have in common? (Music, fishing, golf, hiking, camping, canoeing and many outdoor activities here... how 'bout you?)
Swez
PS Yes, 6x9's or 6x8's ovals would work too. It just depends on the working space available. Keep that option open in think what's possible, not the hinerances...YES?
I can just tell we are kindred spirits with a lot of life under our belts to remain silent.
Scrandal on 02/24/2009 21:04:02
I'm in Dallas. Leaving in the morning for Miami. Email me. I get back with you on Monday. Have a good one. Thanks for everything.
Randy ( randyc@cebridge.net)
swez on 02/25/2009 11:11:08
OK, e-mail sent. Enjoy your week and we'll catch up later!
Dave
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