Hello,Last Time I was on here I was looking for help on my 1st audio system...Ok so heres whats in my car currently
Alpine CD Player(This is good no problems here)
2 Alpine Type R's 12 inches
1 American Legacy 2 channel 4000 watt amp(this thing is a pos it keeps going into protect mode...and I have 3 fans on it already)
Ok so this summer I wana go all out and get a real system...
1). I wana get a car alarm so if you could find me some good ones cuz I have no idea there.
2). I wana get 2 new front speakers and 2 new back speakers I Ik you will prolly need to find a seperate amp for that
3). I wana go just crazy on the subwoofers...Like thousands and thousands of watts...but I dont wana get totally insane with the price but I want quality amps...so somewhere in between.As long as it isnt Rockford Fosgate $25000 amp.that just isnt happenin
4). I wana get a GPS so I dont know which ones r good
5). I wana get a fuzz buster cuz I already got pulled over for ILLEGAL USE OF RADIO!LMAO!!!so I wana stop that bs cuz I dont need tickets.So find me a quality one of those as well.
Also I wana know what I can do so my car doesnt like shut down from all the power being drawn here...Ive heard stuff about Capacitors..Extra batteries...or multiple alternators..Im still a total rookie at this stuff.
Now I know thats alot of stuff..but I wana if possible keep it to like $2,000 if possible.Ik that may sound insane.I have alpine stuff now.Im really not chosy on brands I just want all good quality stuff so I dont have to deal with weird non name brand stuff that doesnt stand up.
Oh yeah I wanted to get the thickest strongest wiring possible so it can not be crippled on power...
Well I need the help so get back to me...
Keep in mind I wana do this in spring/summer so I can have it all planed out and figured out well.
Replies (37)
ttocs on 01/19/2009 22:53:49
welcome the the forum.
Which model subs do you have and how are they wired? It sounds like you have the amp bridged below its limit and it is going into protection, well to protect itself. It will not matter how many fans you have on it.
What kind of car?
swez on 01/20/2009 01:03:43
Welcome back to CK!
The Alpine type R's come in 2 flavors: (2+2 and 4+4 DVC's) Which ones do you have now?
Once we know that, we can figure out a quality amp to run them. These subs can handle 500 watts RMS per each sub. So, a Class D amp with 1000-1200 watts RMS is a good number to shoot at. Alpine makes a few nice Class D amps that would get the job done at a net 2 ohms. (A pair of 2+2 DVC's) But if you have dual 4+4 DVC's, we'll have to look for a 1 ohm stable Class D amp to meet your needs. But it will not be Alpine.
Also, are these subs in a sealed or ported enclosure system now? Give some details as you know them OK?
As ttocs asked, what vehicle are we talking about here? If you wind up running a large sub amp and a medium power full range, 4 channel amp for the mids and highs, current draw from the stock electricals will be an issue to address as you plan your build.
A H.O. ALT is the best way to go if you can find one at a budget friendly price. The Big 3 wiring upgrade is in the mix as well. (200A's min here and more like 250 if you can find one) They are not cheap, but that's what it takes to keep your electricals up to par. (Forget Surge Caps here... you may wish to consider a dual battery system and a Battery Isolation device to keep your primary and sub amp battery up to snuff.
Comments/Questions,
Swez
PS Garmin makes several nice portable GPS systems and they have dropped in price over the past few months too. A good factory refurb is adequate for most and under $125.00 if you shop well. The Nuvi 200 series is adequate for most route drivers and easy to program too. In my last job, I needed a good GPS to get me to 80+ unique destinations per week. The Nuvi 200 was good enough to get me in the right church, but to find the right pew was more like "Kentucky Windage".
kylezm on 01/20/2009 20:20:09
Subs are the SWR-1242D type.I didnt wire it so I dont know how there wired.My current system is sealed.IDK if sealed or ported is better.You tell me.
Its gona be in a car either my 01 Ford Taurus or I mite wait cuz I wana get an 02 mustang.So eithr way its a car
How or where can i get an H.O. Alternator.I was thinkin multiple batteries.Idk what the big 3 wiring upgrade is.
kylezm on 01/20/2009 20:22:31
What about the car alarms? and Idc what brand the amp or anything is I just want it to be quality this time
kylezm on 01/20/2009 20:28:39
When I brought it in the guy meantioned about the amp not really being the rite kind 4 those subs.
swez on 01/20/2009 20:49:20
He was right! These are 4+4 DVC's and you'll need a 1 ohm stable, Class D amp to feed them properly. (And a HO ALT and an extra battery + other goodies to make it happen)
Yes, you can use dual Class D Alpine amps if you can find the right price, but these will be 1 amp per sub and more expensive unless you have knowledgeable connections. (A 1-ohm stable sub amp and several electrical upgrades to integrate properly)
If you are thinking of changing vehicles from a Taurus to a Mustang, hold off and learn what options are part of the Mustang package you end up with. The "Mach 360" Mustang system needs special attention and ttocs is our "go-to-guy" on that system. Hopefully, he'll catch this one early and give you some timely tips on the options you might consider.
That's all for now,
Swez
kylezm on 01/20/2009 20:58:06
ok.do u think I should keep my current system.I was thinking of wethr or not to just upgrade everything like new subs.I guess I could have the 2 type Rs n other subs.I really want it to thump.Rite now with the current system its ok.but I just wana blow everybody else outa the water.if you know what Im talkin bout.Swez I talked to you b4 idk if you rememeber...but you told me how it can get addicting...lol..man were you rite...I started with 1 type r n a 900 watt amp..at first I thought that was good but now I just wana keep going bigger.
kylezm on 01/20/2009 21:06:57
As far as the mustang I didnt buy it yet it is just for sale.but in summa I have a really good job but it doesnt start til spring.so thats y idk bout the mustang but.I emaild the guy but it may take a lil while 2 answer
kylezm on 01/20/2009 21:10:40
Alrite well as far as the amps go Im gona shop around then Ill check back with u
kylezm on 01/20/2009 21:13:06
Hows this one look?
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-CHANNEL-CLASS-D-5000W-1-OHM-STABLE-CAR-AMPLIFIER-NEW_W0QQitemZ140291812675QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item140291812675&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
kylezm on 01/20/2009 21:26:57
oh yeah I just rememberd something...I think I should get that dynomat or watever it its.
swez on 01/21/2009 01:56:22
Kyle,
Am sure you are pretty geeked up on the thought of having a thumping ride. Just use this time to plan your new system well and get some solid tips from the Golds here at CK.
That amp you showed has all the basic features and it will power the pair of SWR-1242D's you have now with extra to spare. However, this is a 2 channel amp, Class A/B but not very efficient on power. It claims 1200 watts RMS output, so am calculating it can draw about 120 amperes of current at full power. No stock electrical system can handle that load w/o some serious upgrades.
For every 100 watts it draws, you get ~60 watts to the subs. That's a 40% loss to heat bud. (Fine if you need a George Foreman Grill to heat up some burgers or buritos) GRIN But you'll need one big power supply to run it as well. More like a H.O. 250A ALT and probably an extra battery in the back too. That's about $650.00 in round numbers. Are you willing to take that $$$ step?
As for sealed or ported, it depends on the type of music you like best. For Rap and Hip-Hop, ported subs go lower and are a few dB louder in the low end. Sealed is a good all around daily driver for most any kind of jamz. You won't get the added low end bump in SPL like a good ported design, but the subs will handle more power and sound a bit less boomy too. (Every box design has its Pros & Cons)
Finally, what is the model # of your American Legacy amp? A link would be most helpful. If it is a 2 channel amp, you may have to rewire the subs to keep it from shutting down. One sub, (2 ohms) per channel in stereo mode is fine. Each sub is wired for 2 ohms, (Parallel) and gets its own amp channel.
If you wish to bridge the amp to a MONO version, the net sub load needs to be 4 ohms. Anything lower will heat the amp up too much and it will go into protect mode to cool off. Legacy is not a horrible amp choice and the older ones were actually pretty decent about 8 years ago. What are the fuse values on this amp?
Swez
PS I do recall you coming here to CK some time ago. Welcome back and note we are a PG site. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
PSS If you have been here before, where's your Gold Star? (Contributors to our site) Man, ya gotta have one of those to be a partner around here. $10.00 will get you in that club!
kylezm on 01/21/2009 18:55:23
ok.Idk that you could edit.didnt really notice that.sorry.ok.I listen to mostly rap.I just like hitting that lowest note when my windsheild wiper shakes.lol.couldnt you just get an ok alternator n more batteries.well i guess eithr way its still money...Current amp is LA-2288.American Legacy 2.I have no idea about fuses.and again I am sorry bout the language.I really didnt know u could edit.
kylezm on 01/21/2009 18:56:55
Correct me if Im wrong but victor doesnt have a gold star......huh
swez on 01/21/2009 23:12:00
Vic is from India... he contributes huge to the team, but we don't take Rupies. (Currency Exchange issues) You can obtain a gold star for a song and thanks for editing.
Vic, hold your peace Okay? The issue was rectified in short order by Kyle w/o reservation. However, add your thoughts on sound damping products that work please.
Amp Specs: LA2288
2 x 300 Watts RMS @ 4 Ohms
2 x 450 Watts RMS @ 2 Ohms ***
If that is accurate, this amp has the power to run both sub to their potential. The easy way to get it all and not have the amp shut down on you, is to run one sub per channel. Each sub is wired for 2 ohms. (Both coils in parallel, 1 sub per channel in stereo mode) If the amp still shuts down this way, it's because the amp is not getting enough juice from the ALT/BAT used now. (Low voltage issues)
Yes, matting/dampening your trunk and other panels will help reduce the rattles. It's a lot of work and very time consuming, but the results are usually worth the effort and cost to a serious Basshead. The less panel flexing we have, the more bass energy stays in the vehicle.
A combination of padded matting and paint on type deadeners will do the job. The Elemental Designs system, (E-dead) covers both products.
Victor has used both in his install biz and reports good results for/with both products. (Yeah, he runs a nice shop in India now) I trust his word as we have worked together on this site and personal IM's for about 5 years now. Victor is one sharp guy! (Don't dis him or you'll cut your own throat here)
I have a lot of respect for Victor and ask that you join the party too. He is a good friend and very a very capable Gold memeber here at CK. (Please, do not pee on his sandles and he will not pee on yours) We have better things to do than be a referee in a wizzing contest.
Comments/questions?
Swez
kylezm on 01/22/2009 19:05:11
Jeez Settle down.I was just kidding about vic.peace man.
I was just riding in my car today and it shut down probably in 2 3 hrs of driving and hardcore pounding....it shut down like 2 3 times at least.You can smell the amp too..like a burning smell...If I remeber correctly I think he wired it to 4 ohms.I have 3 fans on it too. And STILL it shuts down...Its really annoying especially cuz Im trying to show off with my gf...So what can I do....I Also bought a brand new battery up front like a mnth or two ago...with the highest amps that would fit..its a duralast gold series or edition or something like that....
kylezm on 01/22/2009 19:07:36
So if I would get an HO alternator n a battery in back then do u think my car could handle that 5000 watt amp...I really wana step it up
kylezm on 01/22/2009 19:08:50
about the star thing Im 17 so I dont have a credit card or any other way to pay for it sry
kirchatndftbl on 01/22/2009 23:21:50
when the amp shuts down is it hot when you touch it???
sounds like either the amp is wired to an ohmic load its cant handle, or your cars electrical system isnt supplying the amp with enough power to function properly..
if the amps cant handle the ohmic load the fans arent really doing anything to help it..
when dealing with a dual battery set up its better to have both of the batteries be the same and both of them should be new, or bought around the same time..
if your looking for an amp to power these subs take a look at these...
(Hifonics BXi1608D) i have the older model of this amp hooked up to 2 alpine type r 12s in my car right now and it sounds good..
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12211_Hifonics+BXi+1608D.html
(MB Quart PAB 1200.1D)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_10140_MB+Quart+PAB+1200.1D.html
(Memphis 16- MCD1000)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4022_Memphis+16-MCD1000.html
if you need advice on a good amp for those subs just ask, the golds on here will always lead you in the right direction, everything ive had help with on here has worked out perfect.
swez on 01/23/2009 01:44:19
It sounds like your stock electicals cannot handle the current draw of this amp you have now. (Low voltage or low current will put this amp into protect mode and shut off. It's doing its job just fine)
The next step we often suggest here, a Battery Isolation Kit and a 2nd battery for your sub amp along with the Big 3 wiring upgrade.
The Battery islolation kit monitor battery storage values of your main and support batteries. If one needs more juice, (Sub amp) it channels more ALT power to the sub battery as needed. This device helps top off your 2nd battery as needed. But in this scenario, that may not be adquete. Here, an H.O. ALT is often the best choice. (Along with with the BAT ISO)
These are not cheap add ons, but to feed a strong amp for the Bass Engine, (Mentioned earlier) you may have few other options. One cannot go booming about the parade route and expect a stock ALT/BAT to keep up with the add on power draw. That's why your amp and subs are shutting down.
Comments/Questions?
Swez
kylezm on 01/23/2009 16:29:24
no amp is not hot at all...There is a corner that is just bearly warm and that is it but man can u smell it..
That hifonics amp is onli a one channel how do u run two subs on it????
I like the hifonics the best cuz ive heard good things and its got the power I want..so Id have to get two of them tho...
do you think if I just get a better alt or could I run the stock and the HO alt like a dual setup..So if i did that then maybe it wouldnt cut out.When u say it I get why im having problems cuz I have a cd player and a 4,000 watt amp with nothing upgraded on the electrical except one new batt up front..I dont think thats standard equiptment.lol
kylezm on 01/23/2009 16:35:20
How about This for an alt
kirchatndftbl on 01/23/2009 18:43:30
you would only need one amp for the 2 subs.
since you have the dvc 4+4 version of the type r's you would wire both subs parallel to the amp for a net 1 ohm load..
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp?submitted=true&woofer_qty=2&woofer_imp=4
even if u get a different amp you will still need to upgrade the stock electricals
swez on 01/23/2009 19:27:08
Whoa, that link really stretched the viewing page a ton!
It looks like a real good deal and I like the output curve they stated:
105A @ idle
200A @ 1200 RMP and up
That HiFonics amp will get the job done and then some. It's a Class D MONO amp and very easy to wire your subs to 1 ohm for full advantage of this amp. (Fused at 70A's x 2)
You'll need 1/0 wiring from the BAT to amp to handle that level of current draw. It states terminals are #4 gage and that seems a bit small of a gage for the rating unless they have dual #4 connection lugs to use. That would make sense.
Here's the manual on this amp. Have a good look before you leap:
http://www.maxxsonics.net/manuals/hifonics/pdfs/BXi%2008%20Amplifier%20Manual.pdf
Also, if you buy this amp, get the extended warranty plan as HiFonics does not have a stellar reputation for long-term reliablity.
Questions/Comments?
Swez
kylezm on 01/24/2009 02:16:20
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Stinger-SWKHO-1-0-Gauge-Power-Amplifier-wiring-kit_W0QQitemZ320334644106QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Electronics_Installation?hash=item320334644106&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
kylezm on 01/24/2009 02:20:59
Is that wiring kit gona work...so Well I got my plans for now...get the alternator 1st n then the new Hifonics amp n 1/0 wiring kit
kylezm on 01/24/2009 02:31:18
Do u think I could put this hifonics amp instead cuz this one has a lil more power for not much more $ and its made for the 0 guage wiring.Im sorry if Im pushing it but I just want this one to be good..ik tho no matter what I gotta upgrade the wiring,the alternator, and maybe an extra batt or two in the back
I cnt help it im a teenager.lol.:)
kylezm on 01/24/2009 02:31:32
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12120_Hifonics+BXi+2008D.html
swez on 01/24/2009 02:41:40
Yes Kyle,
That kit should be a good fit and Stinger makes some of the best gear on the market too.
If you have not done so yet, use your present #4 wire for the Big 3 wiring upgrade. That will help a lot with the H.O. ALT.
Also, you may not need the new amp when the ALT and new wiring are installed. If the Legacy amp is now starving for current, it won't when the new ALT is installed. You may have some minor tweaking to do on the amp settings, but if the specs are honest, the power is already there.
Do you have access to a Digital Multimeter? If not, for ~$20.00, you can get one from Wal-Mart, Radio Shack or similar stores. It's a great tool for many projects and I use mine a lot at home, work and under the hood. This one has all the main features needed for most people and handy to have in your tool kit:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103174
Swez
PS Can you remove the E-bay hot link on the H.O. Alt? That will get the page back in normal format and easier for all to read. It's a go on that one, so no need to leave it. Or, rename the link so it fits a normal screen sized laptop. Thank you!
kylezm on 01/24/2009 09:44:38
ahh.much better..Yah I was thinking the same thing about the amp..plus then if I upgrade the alternator n stuff it would have more power too.How is the 1/0 wiring gona work on the American Legacy Amp?
kylezm on 01/24/2009 09:46:37
oh yeah and yes I do have the digtial Multimeter.
Yah thats y I went with that amp in the first place becuz it was onli like $130.00 n it has alota power
swez on 01/24/2009 23:35:14
Yes, much better reading again. Thanks!
To terminate your 1/0 gage wire to the Legacy amp, we often use what's call a Distribution Block, (D-block) They come either base or fused if you need one. This hardware often has an input side for 1/0 wire and dual output #4's. One of the easiest and well-priced models I use on large installs if from Knuconcepts. Have a look:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KND-23
Hum, I see they dropped the model I used before, but this would work just fine w/o fuses. It's designed for ground lines, but is equally useful for power lines.
Okay, when you test the amp for power output, we use the AC voltage scale and measure the AC voltage at the sub terminal outputs on the amp or speaker box. It's best to have a test tone of 10-30 seconds at 50 Hz. If you have a CD Burner, you can make your own test tone CD and load many other tones as well.
400 watts at 2 ohms will read 28.0 volts AC on your meter per channel
450 watts at 2 ohms will read 30.0 volts AC on your meter per channel
500 watts at 2 ohms will read 31.6 volts AC on your meter per channel
You can also test the DC supply voltage with the meter. This helps tell us how much voltage is coming out of the ALT/BAT and making its way back to the amp. If you want to know more about this test, just ask.
My guess is that after a few minutes of thumping away, the amp is seeing below 12.5 volts DC at the power/ground terminal at idle speeds. We generally call a system doing its job if the DC voltage remains above 13.8 volts. If it drops like a rock with your lights on, the system is not keeping up and the amp may shut off. (Low Voltage Protection circuits are activated)
Got all that?
Swez
kylezm on 01/25/2009 22:23:42
ok...This may seem like a dumb ? but why would it have a protector for low voltage..like does that do damage...Im sure now thats whats happnen tho..cuz when i turn it up (usually its at nite and i live in WI so its insanely cold now so I have the heater on full blast too) the headlights and every other light in my car dims like really bad...so rite there is how u can tell it definately isnt getting the 13.8
kylezm on 01/25/2009 22:25:24
what i have been doing now is turning my subs down until I get the new alternator at least
swez on 01/26/2009 02:04:15
Yes, when voltage drops on a given line, (AC or DC) the device will draw more current to make up the difference when it can. (To a preset limit)
That can have a cascading effect up the power chain and really stress your ALT, BAT and other expensive devices in a vehicle. That's why better gear has protection devices. They will shut off the gear until the situation rights itself.
In todays' sofisticated car electronics, we have several expensive electronic modules, (ECM/BCM/EBCM) computer modules to regulate and monitor the vehicle performance optimizations. If one blows one of these modules, it's not a cheap fix. You're dead in the water when they crap out.
ECM: Engine Control Module
BCM: Body Control Module
EBCM: A very expensive module that controls many devices
Got all that?
Swez
PS What part of WI are you from? I use to travel on biz all over WI and our family vacationed there many times when I lived in Chicago. I loved the older German-town restarants, the excellent golf courses in Kohler and Steven's Point. The rivers and lakes in Hayward, WI were fantastic. Oktoberfest was my favorite time of the year. Yep, some nice memories there to be sure.
kylezm on 01/26/2009 16:49:11
green bay
swez on 01/26/2009 17:23:56
Ah, used to go up to that general area every six weeks to call on customers in Fond-du Lac, Green Lake, Ripon, Colma and a bunch of sites in Milwakee and west toward Madison.
I really enjoyed the wide open parts away from the big cities. The small towns folk were friendly and very down-to-earth and some of the best golf courses in the Midwest too. A little chilly in the winter though.
Now, I live about 20 miles due west of Detroit in Michigan. Man, the economy has been in the tank real bad for some 4-5 years already. It seems we were one of the first states to tank and we'll likely be one of the last out too.
Are you enjoying the CK site?
Swez
Alpine CD Player(This is good no problems here)
2 Alpine Type R's 12 inches
1 American Legacy 2 channel 4000 watt amp(this thing is a pos it keeps going into protect mode...and I have 3 fans on it already)
Ok so this summer I wana go all out and get a real system...
1). I wana get a car alarm so if you could find me some good ones cuz I have no idea there.
2). I wana get 2 new front speakers and 2 new back speakers I Ik you will prolly need to find a seperate amp for that
3). I wana go just crazy on the subwoofers...Like thousands and thousands of watts...but I dont wana get totally insane with the price but I want quality amps...so somewhere in between.As long as it isnt Rockford Fosgate $25000 amp.that just isnt happenin
4). I wana get a GPS so I dont know which ones r good
5). I wana get a fuzz buster cuz I already got pulled over for ILLEGAL USE OF RADIO!LMAO!!!so I wana stop that bs cuz I dont need tickets.So find me a quality one of those as well.
Also I wana know what I can do so my car doesnt like shut down from all the power being drawn here...Ive heard stuff about Capacitors..Extra batteries...or multiple alternators..Im still a total rookie at this stuff.
Now I know thats alot of stuff..but I wana if possible keep it to like $2,000 if possible.Ik that may sound insane.I have alpine stuff now.Im really not chosy on brands I just want all good quality stuff so I dont have to deal with weird non name brand stuff that doesnt stand up.
Oh yeah I wanted to get the thickest strongest wiring possible so it can not be crippled on power...
Well I need the help so get back to me...
Keep in mind I wana do this in spring/summer so I can have it all planed out and figured out well.
Replies (37)
ttocs on 01/19/2009 22:53:49
welcome the the forum.
Which model subs do you have and how are they wired? It sounds like you have the amp bridged below its limit and it is going into protection, well to protect itself. It will not matter how many fans you have on it.
What kind of car?
swez on 01/20/2009 01:03:43
Welcome back to CK!
The Alpine type R's come in 2 flavors: (2+2 and 4+4 DVC's) Which ones do you have now?
Once we know that, we can figure out a quality amp to run them. These subs can handle 500 watts RMS per each sub. So, a Class D amp with 1000-1200 watts RMS is a good number to shoot at. Alpine makes a few nice Class D amps that would get the job done at a net 2 ohms. (A pair of 2+2 DVC's) But if you have dual 4+4 DVC's, we'll have to look for a 1 ohm stable Class D amp to meet your needs. But it will not be Alpine.
Also, are these subs in a sealed or ported enclosure system now? Give some details as you know them OK?
As ttocs asked, what vehicle are we talking about here? If you wind up running a large sub amp and a medium power full range, 4 channel amp for the mids and highs, current draw from the stock electricals will be an issue to address as you plan your build.
A H.O. ALT is the best way to go if you can find one at a budget friendly price. The Big 3 wiring upgrade is in the mix as well. (200A's min here and more like 250 if you can find one) They are not cheap, but that's what it takes to keep your electricals up to par. (Forget Surge Caps here... you may wish to consider a dual battery system and a Battery Isolation device to keep your primary and sub amp battery up to snuff.
Comments/Questions,
Swez
PS Garmin makes several nice portable GPS systems and they have dropped in price over the past few months too. A good factory refurb is adequate for most and under $125.00 if you shop well. The Nuvi 200 series is adequate for most route drivers and easy to program too. In my last job, I needed a good GPS to get me to 80+ unique destinations per week. The Nuvi 200 was good enough to get me in the right church, but to find the right pew was more like "Kentucky Windage".
kylezm on 01/20/2009 20:20:09
Subs are the SWR-1242D type.I didnt wire it so I dont know how there wired.My current system is sealed.IDK if sealed or ported is better.You tell me.
Its gona be in a car either my 01 Ford Taurus or I mite wait cuz I wana get an 02 mustang.So eithr way its a car
How or where can i get an H.O. Alternator.I was thinkin multiple batteries.Idk what the big 3 wiring upgrade is.
kylezm on 01/20/2009 20:22:31
What about the car alarms? and Idc what brand the amp or anything is I just want it to be quality this time
kylezm on 01/20/2009 20:28:39
When I brought it in the guy meantioned about the amp not really being the rite kind 4 those subs.
swez on 01/20/2009 20:49:20
He was right! These are 4+4 DVC's and you'll need a 1 ohm stable, Class D amp to feed them properly. (And a HO ALT and an extra battery + other goodies to make it happen)
Yes, you can use dual Class D Alpine amps if you can find the right price, but these will be 1 amp per sub and more expensive unless you have knowledgeable connections. (A 1-ohm stable sub amp and several electrical upgrades to integrate properly)
If you are thinking of changing vehicles from a Taurus to a Mustang, hold off and learn what options are part of the Mustang package you end up with. The "Mach 360" Mustang system needs special attention and ttocs is our "go-to-guy" on that system. Hopefully, he'll catch this one early and give you some timely tips on the options you might consider.
That's all for now,
Swez
kylezm on 01/20/2009 20:58:06
ok.do u think I should keep my current system.I was thinking of wethr or not to just upgrade everything like new subs.I guess I could have the 2 type Rs n other subs.I really want it to thump.Rite now with the current system its ok.but I just wana blow everybody else outa the water.if you know what Im talkin bout.Swez I talked to you b4 idk if you rememeber...but you told me how it can get addicting...lol..man were you rite...I started with 1 type r n a 900 watt amp..at first I thought that was good but now I just wana keep going bigger.
kylezm on 01/20/2009 21:06:57
As far as the mustang I didnt buy it yet it is just for sale.but in summa I have a really good job but it doesnt start til spring.so thats y idk bout the mustang but.I emaild the guy but it may take a lil while 2 answer
kylezm on 01/20/2009 21:10:40
Alrite well as far as the amps go Im gona shop around then Ill check back with u
kylezm on 01/20/2009 21:13:06
Hows this one look?
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-CHANNEL-CLASS-D-5000W-1-OHM-STABLE-CAR-AMPLIFIER-NEW_W0QQitemZ140291812675QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item140291812675&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
kylezm on 01/20/2009 21:26:57
oh yeah I just rememberd something...I think I should get that dynomat or watever it its.
swez on 01/21/2009 01:56:22
Kyle,
Am sure you are pretty geeked up on the thought of having a thumping ride. Just use this time to plan your new system well and get some solid tips from the Golds here at CK.
That amp you showed has all the basic features and it will power the pair of SWR-1242D's you have now with extra to spare. However, this is a 2 channel amp, Class A/B but not very efficient on power. It claims 1200 watts RMS output, so am calculating it can draw about 120 amperes of current at full power. No stock electrical system can handle that load w/o some serious upgrades.
For every 100 watts it draws, you get ~60 watts to the subs. That's a 40% loss to heat bud. (Fine if you need a George Foreman Grill to heat up some burgers or buritos) GRIN But you'll need one big power supply to run it as well. More like a H.O. 250A ALT and probably an extra battery in the back too. That's about $650.00 in round numbers. Are you willing to take that $$$ step?
As for sealed or ported, it depends on the type of music you like best. For Rap and Hip-Hop, ported subs go lower and are a few dB louder in the low end. Sealed is a good all around daily driver for most any kind of jamz. You won't get the added low end bump in SPL like a good ported design, but the subs will handle more power and sound a bit less boomy too. (Every box design has its Pros & Cons)
Finally, what is the model # of your American Legacy amp? A link would be most helpful. If it is a 2 channel amp, you may have to rewire the subs to keep it from shutting down. One sub, (2 ohms) per channel in stereo mode is fine. Each sub is wired for 2 ohms, (Parallel) and gets its own amp channel.
If you wish to bridge the amp to a MONO version, the net sub load needs to be 4 ohms. Anything lower will heat the amp up too much and it will go into protect mode to cool off. Legacy is not a horrible amp choice and the older ones were actually pretty decent about 8 years ago. What are the fuse values on this amp?
Swez
PS I do recall you coming here to CK some time ago. Welcome back and note we are a PG site. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
PSS If you have been here before, where's your Gold Star? (Contributors to our site) Man, ya gotta have one of those to be a partner around here. $10.00 will get you in that club!
kylezm on 01/21/2009 18:55:23
ok.Idk that you could edit.didnt really notice that.sorry.ok.I listen to mostly rap.I just like hitting that lowest note when my windsheild wiper shakes.lol.couldnt you just get an ok alternator n more batteries.well i guess eithr way its still money...Current amp is LA-2288.American Legacy 2.I have no idea about fuses.and again I am sorry bout the language.I really didnt know u could edit.
kylezm on 01/21/2009 18:56:55
Correct me if Im wrong but victor doesnt have a gold star......huh
swez on 01/21/2009 23:12:00
Vic is from India... he contributes huge to the team, but we don't take Rupies. (Currency Exchange issues) You can obtain a gold star for a song and thanks for editing.
Vic, hold your peace Okay? The issue was rectified in short order by Kyle w/o reservation. However, add your thoughts on sound damping products that work please.
Amp Specs: LA2288
2 x 300 Watts RMS @ 4 Ohms
2 x 450 Watts RMS @ 2 Ohms ***
If that is accurate, this amp has the power to run both sub to their potential. The easy way to get it all and not have the amp shut down on you, is to run one sub per channel. Each sub is wired for 2 ohms. (Both coils in parallel, 1 sub per channel in stereo mode) If the amp still shuts down this way, it's because the amp is not getting enough juice from the ALT/BAT used now. (Low voltage issues)
Yes, matting/dampening your trunk and other panels will help reduce the rattles. It's a lot of work and very time consuming, but the results are usually worth the effort and cost to a serious Basshead. The less panel flexing we have, the more bass energy stays in the vehicle.
A combination of padded matting and paint on type deadeners will do the job. The Elemental Designs system, (E-dead) covers both products.
Victor has used both in his install biz and reports good results for/with both products. (Yeah, he runs a nice shop in India now) I trust his word as we have worked together on this site and personal IM's for about 5 years now. Victor is one sharp guy! (Don't dis him or you'll cut your own throat here)
I have a lot of respect for Victor and ask that you join the party too. He is a good friend and very a very capable Gold memeber here at CK. (Please, do not pee on his sandles and he will not pee on yours) We have better things to do than be a referee in a wizzing contest.
Comments/questions?
Swez
kylezm on 01/22/2009 19:05:11
Jeez Settle down.I was just kidding about vic.peace man.
I was just riding in my car today and it shut down probably in 2 3 hrs of driving and hardcore pounding....it shut down like 2 3 times at least.You can smell the amp too..like a burning smell...If I remeber correctly I think he wired it to 4 ohms.I have 3 fans on it too. And STILL it shuts down...Its really annoying especially cuz Im trying to show off with my gf...So what can I do....I Also bought a brand new battery up front like a mnth or two ago...with the highest amps that would fit..its a duralast gold series or edition or something like that....
kylezm on 01/22/2009 19:07:36
So if I would get an HO alternator n a battery in back then do u think my car could handle that 5000 watt amp...I really wana step it up
kylezm on 01/22/2009 19:08:50
about the star thing Im 17 so I dont have a credit card or any other way to pay for it sry
kirchatndftbl on 01/22/2009 23:21:50
when the amp shuts down is it hot when you touch it???
sounds like either the amp is wired to an ohmic load its cant handle, or your cars electrical system isnt supplying the amp with enough power to function properly..
if the amps cant handle the ohmic load the fans arent really doing anything to help it..
when dealing with a dual battery set up its better to have both of the batteries be the same and both of them should be new, or bought around the same time..
if your looking for an amp to power these subs take a look at these...
(Hifonics BXi1608D) i have the older model of this amp hooked up to 2 alpine type r 12s in my car right now and it sounds good..
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12211_Hifonics+BXi+1608D.html
(MB Quart PAB 1200.1D)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_10140_MB+Quart+PAB+1200.1D.html
(Memphis 16- MCD1000)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4022_Memphis+16-MCD1000.html
if you need advice on a good amp for those subs just ask, the golds on here will always lead you in the right direction, everything ive had help with on here has worked out perfect.
swez on 01/23/2009 01:44:19
It sounds like your stock electicals cannot handle the current draw of this amp you have now. (Low voltage or low current will put this amp into protect mode and shut off. It's doing its job just fine)
The next step we often suggest here, a Battery Isolation Kit and a 2nd battery for your sub amp along with the Big 3 wiring upgrade.
The Battery islolation kit monitor battery storage values of your main and support batteries. If one needs more juice, (Sub amp) it channels more ALT power to the sub battery as needed. This device helps top off your 2nd battery as needed. But in this scenario, that may not be adquete. Here, an H.O. ALT is often the best choice. (Along with with the BAT ISO)
These are not cheap add ons, but to feed a strong amp for the Bass Engine, (Mentioned earlier) you may have few other options. One cannot go booming about the parade route and expect a stock ALT/BAT to keep up with the add on power draw. That's why your amp and subs are shutting down.
Comments/Questions?
Swez
kylezm on 01/23/2009 16:29:24
no amp is not hot at all...There is a corner that is just bearly warm and that is it but man can u smell it..
That hifonics amp is onli a one channel how do u run two subs on it????
I like the hifonics the best cuz ive heard good things and its got the power I want..so Id have to get two of them tho...
do you think if I just get a better alt or could I run the stock and the HO alt like a dual setup..So if i did that then maybe it wouldnt cut out.When u say it I get why im having problems cuz I have a cd player and a 4,000 watt amp with nothing upgraded on the electrical except one new batt up front..I dont think thats standard equiptment.lol
kylezm on 01/23/2009 16:35:20
How about This for an alt
kirchatndftbl on 01/23/2009 18:43:30
you would only need one amp for the 2 subs.
since you have the dvc 4+4 version of the type r's you would wire both subs parallel to the amp for a net 1 ohm load..
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp?submitted=true&woofer_qty=2&woofer_imp=4
even if u get a different amp you will still need to upgrade the stock electricals
swez on 01/23/2009 19:27:08
Whoa, that link really stretched the viewing page a ton!
It looks like a real good deal and I like the output curve they stated:
105A @ idle
200A @ 1200 RMP and up
That HiFonics amp will get the job done and then some. It's a Class D MONO amp and very easy to wire your subs to 1 ohm for full advantage of this amp. (Fused at 70A's x 2)
You'll need 1/0 wiring from the BAT to amp to handle that level of current draw. It states terminals are #4 gage and that seems a bit small of a gage for the rating unless they have dual #4 connection lugs to use. That would make sense.
Here's the manual on this amp. Have a good look before you leap:
http://www.maxxsonics.net/manuals/hifonics/pdfs/BXi%2008%20Amplifier%20Manual.pdf
Also, if you buy this amp, get the extended warranty plan as HiFonics does not have a stellar reputation for long-term reliablity.
Questions/Comments?
Swez
kylezm on 01/24/2009 02:16:20
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Stinger-SWKHO-1-0-Gauge-Power-Amplifier-wiring-kit_W0QQitemZ320334644106QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Electronics_Installation?hash=item320334644106&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
kylezm on 01/24/2009 02:20:59
Is that wiring kit gona work...so Well I got my plans for now...get the alternator 1st n then the new Hifonics amp n 1/0 wiring kit
kylezm on 01/24/2009 02:31:18
Do u think I could put this hifonics amp instead cuz this one has a lil more power for not much more $ and its made for the 0 guage wiring.Im sorry if Im pushing it but I just want this one to be good..ik tho no matter what I gotta upgrade the wiring,the alternator, and maybe an extra batt or two in the back
I cnt help it im a teenager.lol.:)
kylezm on 01/24/2009 02:31:32
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12120_Hifonics+BXi+2008D.html
swez on 01/24/2009 02:41:40
Yes Kyle,
That kit should be a good fit and Stinger makes some of the best gear on the market too.
If you have not done so yet, use your present #4 wire for the Big 3 wiring upgrade. That will help a lot with the H.O. ALT.
Also, you may not need the new amp when the ALT and new wiring are installed. If the Legacy amp is now starving for current, it won't when the new ALT is installed. You may have some minor tweaking to do on the amp settings, but if the specs are honest, the power is already there.
Do you have access to a Digital Multimeter? If not, for ~$20.00, you can get one from Wal-Mart, Radio Shack or similar stores. It's a great tool for many projects and I use mine a lot at home, work and under the hood. This one has all the main features needed for most people and handy to have in your tool kit:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103174
Swez
PS Can you remove the E-bay hot link on the H.O. Alt? That will get the page back in normal format and easier for all to read. It's a go on that one, so no need to leave it. Or, rename the link so it fits a normal screen sized laptop. Thank you!
kylezm on 01/24/2009 09:44:38
ahh.much better..Yah I was thinking the same thing about the amp..plus then if I upgrade the alternator n stuff it would have more power too.How is the 1/0 wiring gona work on the American Legacy Amp?
kylezm on 01/24/2009 09:46:37
oh yeah and yes I do have the digtial Multimeter.
Yah thats y I went with that amp in the first place becuz it was onli like $130.00 n it has alota power
swez on 01/24/2009 23:35:14
Yes, much better reading again. Thanks!
To terminate your 1/0 gage wire to the Legacy amp, we often use what's call a Distribution Block, (D-block) They come either base or fused if you need one. This hardware often has an input side for 1/0 wire and dual output #4's. One of the easiest and well-priced models I use on large installs if from Knuconcepts. Have a look:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KND-23
Hum, I see they dropped the model I used before, but this would work just fine w/o fuses. It's designed for ground lines, but is equally useful for power lines.
Okay, when you test the amp for power output, we use the AC voltage scale and measure the AC voltage at the sub terminal outputs on the amp or speaker box. It's best to have a test tone of 10-30 seconds at 50 Hz. If you have a CD Burner, you can make your own test tone CD and load many other tones as well.
400 watts at 2 ohms will read 28.0 volts AC on your meter per channel
450 watts at 2 ohms will read 30.0 volts AC on your meter per channel
500 watts at 2 ohms will read 31.6 volts AC on your meter per channel
You can also test the DC supply voltage with the meter. This helps tell us how much voltage is coming out of the ALT/BAT and making its way back to the amp. If you want to know more about this test, just ask.
My guess is that after a few minutes of thumping away, the amp is seeing below 12.5 volts DC at the power/ground terminal at idle speeds. We generally call a system doing its job if the DC voltage remains above 13.8 volts. If it drops like a rock with your lights on, the system is not keeping up and the amp may shut off. (Low Voltage Protection circuits are activated)
Got all that?
Swez
kylezm on 01/25/2009 22:23:42
ok...This may seem like a dumb ? but why would it have a protector for low voltage..like does that do damage...Im sure now thats whats happnen tho..cuz when i turn it up (usually its at nite and i live in WI so its insanely cold now so I have the heater on full blast too) the headlights and every other light in my car dims like really bad...so rite there is how u can tell it definately isnt getting the 13.8
kylezm on 01/25/2009 22:25:24
what i have been doing now is turning my subs down until I get the new alternator at least
swez on 01/26/2009 02:04:15
Yes, when voltage drops on a given line, (AC or DC) the device will draw more current to make up the difference when it can. (To a preset limit)
That can have a cascading effect up the power chain and really stress your ALT, BAT and other expensive devices in a vehicle. That's why better gear has protection devices. They will shut off the gear until the situation rights itself.
In todays' sofisticated car electronics, we have several expensive electronic modules, (ECM/BCM/EBCM) computer modules to regulate and monitor the vehicle performance optimizations. If one blows one of these modules, it's not a cheap fix. You're dead in the water when they crap out.
ECM: Engine Control Module
BCM: Body Control Module
EBCM: A very expensive module that controls many devices
Got all that?
Swez
PS What part of WI are you from? I use to travel on biz all over WI and our family vacationed there many times when I lived in Chicago. I loved the older German-town restarants, the excellent golf courses in Kohler and Steven's Point. The rivers and lakes in Hayward, WI were fantastic. Oktoberfest was my favorite time of the year. Yep, some nice memories there to be sure.
kylezm on 01/26/2009 16:49:11
green bay
swez on 01/26/2009 17:23:56
Ah, used to go up to that general area every six weeks to call on customers in Fond-du Lac, Green Lake, Ripon, Colma and a bunch of sites in Milwakee and west toward Madison.
I really enjoyed the wide open parts away from the big cities. The small towns folk were friendly and very down-to-earth and some of the best golf courses in the Midwest too. A little chilly in the winter though.
Now, I live about 20 miles due west of Detroit in Michigan. Man, the economy has been in the tank real bad for some 4-5 years already. It seems we were one of the first states to tank and we'll likely be one of the last out too.
Are you enjoying the CK site?
Swez
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