Hi I've been browsing this site for a while and have learned so much, I have a background in installing very high wattage RF amplifiers and radio equipment in cars, but car audio is completely new to me.
I have an idea for a setup in my 96' ford thunderbird and I just wanted to check it with some of you geniuses.
My parts list is as follows (no need to suggest other parts, I already got these dirt cheap):
2 Coustic CF1044 10" subwoofers in a slot ported custom box. (rated 400w RMS 800w Peak)
2 Pioneer GM-5300T 760W 2 Channel amps
Alpine HU
Okay I'm planning on running 2Gauge wire from the battery to the trunk where I will split it into 2 4Ga wires running to the amps. 4ga grounds for both.
I will use y-splitters on both amplifiers and connect each one to a seperate (2v) preout coming from the HU
Then I will bridge both amplifiers and have each one run one sub. I'm guessing I'll get around 400w RMS per sub running them at 2ohms. That's pretty close to the rated 400w I'm sure, will it blow the subs?
Anybody see any flaws in my current plans? Any pointers? I'm new to the world of car audio and enjoying every minute of it!
Thanks
Replies (20)
ttocs on 01/18/2009 21:54:39
keep the signal to the subs clean and unclipped and it doesn't matter how much or how little you send them. Your equipment looks like it will work well together and should sound nice.
Running all that 2 awg will not do you any good unless you upgrade the stock power wires, the big 3. We have a topic on it in our often asked questions section.
just by some strange possibility is the factory radio in the car still? Do you have the info center above the radio or is it just the blank panel?
alienascii on 01/18/2009 22:39:36
Thanks!
No the factory radio isn't in the car anymore, I have it though, I just swapped it out a few days ago. I'm not sure what you're asking.
Stock power wires? by that do you mean the alternator wires?
and I have a 130 amp alt, I think that will be enough to power these 2 amps.
kirchatndftbl on 01/18/2009 23:58:14
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g3481
go to this link it will explain the big 3 upgrade....
how current is the new battery???
alienascii on 01/19/2009 00:33:36
Battery? It's a brand new batt, got is a few weeks ago. Still, at the time I didn't anticipate the hobby of car audio taking a hold of me, I may get an optima soon.
alienascii on 01/19/2009 12:42:53
I've been looking over the big 3 upgrade, and that's definitely something I'm going to do. I'm also going to sand and tap new grounds in the trunk for the amps.
Already, with one 800w amp, I get voltage drop and light dimming on heavy bass hits.
Price is a big consideration for this setup, do you think I could get away with running one 4ga wire from the battery split to two 8's?
Also can you seal a ported box or would it be too big after you sealed it?
ttocs on 01/19/2009 16:44:06
the reason I was asking about your factory radio is because there is a fuse that will blow under the hood when it is replaced with an aftermarket deck and turned up. If it has not happened yet it will and its not a big deal. THIS IS THE ONLY TIME I HAVE EVER BEEN TOLD BY ANYONE I TRUST ELECTRONICALLY THAT IT IS OK UP UPGRADE TO A BIGGER FUSE! I can't remember exactly what it was but I think it was a 10 amp fuse that needed to be 15 amps. When you find it(it is not labeled radio btw) just go the next size up and you will be fine. We swap them out at the shop when we put a deck into a t-bird.
Now the only other question is, do you have an alarm? You will need one with the more stuff you put in it to keep it from walkng away....
swez on 01/19/2009 18:00:27
The light dimming on large amplitude bass hits are normal for most stock electrical systems. (Especially at low RPMs) Upgrading to the Big 3 should help. Just leave the stock wires in place and add #4 wire to them.
Which Alpine HU model # are you using? If it's the newer V-12 series, it is fused at 15A's as ttocs mentioned. Skip the ILL wiring and ground this HU to bare metal in the dash, firewall or floor pan and not the factory harness. (#12 gage wire here)
The amps mentioned are rated at 380 watts RMS when bridged to a 4 ohm load. It's fused 2 x 30A's and will draw about 57 amperes at full power. Not bad in all, but not 2 ohm stable in bridged mode. If the amps are bridged to a 2 ohm load, they will either heat up rapidly or the protect circuits will shut them down.
Manual for your amps:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/130/130GM5300T.PDF
The Coustic subs are 4+4 DVC's and a better match would be a larger Class D amp that can deliver close to 800 watts RMS into a 1 ohm load.
Hope that helps,
Swez
alienascii on 01/19/2009 21:12:21
The HU is the Alpine CDE-9846
I've turned it way up and the fuse hasn't blown yet, could it be because I have the "premium sound" package stock?
I would like one amp that would run these right, but that's not an option as I already have this stuff. So how would I go about wiring these subs with a 4Ω load so my amp doesn't shut off?
And yes, I definitely need an alarm! It wouldn't represent a huge financial loss to me because I've only spent $200 on everything so far(craigslist) so an alarm would probably cost more than my stereo did.
ttocs on 01/19/2009 23:01:34
you can do a series parallel system to get the 4 ohm load. put the coils in each sub in parallel(connect the pos of one coil to the neg of the other) and then use the remaining empty terminals as your amps + and - and put them in parallel by connecting the +'s and -'s on the subs the amps +'s and -'s. wow, we will need to find a drawing to have that make sense huh?
The loss of the equipment is normally not the expenisive part. Replacing windows, dash pieces and other stuff they break during the install which leads to more lost time putting it back in is the real loss.
cplkittle on 01/19/2009 23:07:02
Just reading through the post and I noticed a couple of unanswered questions and items to comment on.
RCAs: I would recommend running the pair to the back and splitting them to each amp instead of one to each preout at the stereo. This stereo claims to have one set of RCA preouts. More than likely, these are labeled 'rear output'. Because they are left and right channels, each amplifier needs to receive a left and right signal to produce identical sounds. Run a single set of RCA to the rear of the vehicle and then, using 2 splitters, give each amplifier a left and a right signal. This is very important if the subwoofer enclosure is designed so that the subs share the same airspace. If the subs share the same airspace, normally we would strongly recommend that you use only one amplifier to power both subs. It is almost impossible to tune two seperate amplifiers to perform identically. Any deviation in power or movement from one sub to the other can damage the subwoofers.
I would not recomment using 4ga split to 8 ga for your power wire. Using 2ga or 0ga, then splitting to 4 ga would be much better. I know it is expensive, but it is necessary.
alienascii on 01/19/2009 23:57:54
Okay you've sold me. an Alarm will be a priority of mine. I'm not sure if those are easy to install by yourself.
I'm not sure how that sub wiring would work. So basically I wire them for an 8-ohm load and then connect the leftover positive and negative on the amp?
If I wired my subs for 8 ohms how much power would I lose? if this amp does 380w bridged at 4 ohms, does that mean it will do 240w rms at 8 ohms?
cplkittle, that's what I was going to do with the RCA's, I guess I didn't word it right.
My box is center vertical slot ported and has a separate compartment for each subwoofer. They don't share the same airspace.
Here's the box I have:
http://images.craigslist.org/3nc3k73m61171f41g09167ee99d1e78011515.jpg
About the wire, It's too late nobody commented on that so I went out and got some monster powerflex 4ga. Oh well, Maybe I'll run an 8ga with the 4? I have plenty of 8.
I'm still waiting to get my car back before I can do any of this, I get it back from the shop tomorrow. I'll post and let everybody know how things work out.
I really appreciate all the help, I'm learning a ton and Without everybody's comments here I'm sure I would make a critical error somewhere.
Thank you
swez on 01/20/2009 00:43:18
For now, it would be best to run both subs off 1 amp at 4 ohms and the amp bridged MONO. Each sub will get almost 200 watts RMS at full power and still thump pretty hard. It's safer this way, less cables to play with and if this is not enough bass for now, you can always upgrade to a larger Class D amp when $$$ is available.
Why do I suggest this? Well, several good reason come to mind.
1. Both amps are not 2 ohm stable when bridged
2. Each amp consumes almost 60A's of current per unit at full power and will overload any stock electrical system w/o upgrades
3. The net difference in audio output for your subs is only 3dB less with one amp used. (Barely enough to notice w/o a dB meter)
4. You can use the #4 gage power wire as is. The #4 is good up to 80A's + of current draw, depending on the length used.
5. As Kittle said, running dual amps will be a challenge to match output to each sub. Even though the amps and subs are the same make and model, they come off the assy line with minor deviations. (Still in specification, but not always identical)
Finally, here's the proper wiring diagram/schematic for wiring a pair of 4+4 DVC's to a net 4 ohm load. Use option #2:
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp?submitted=true&woofer_qty=2&woofer_imp=4
Questions/Comments,
Swez
alienascii on 01/20/2009 01:24:32
Swez, having looked over everything I think you're right. I wish I didn't already spend all this cash on another amp, cable and dist. blocks, but oh well. Anyone want to buy a brand new 760w amp? lol j/k
Okay, I'm just going to do the Big 3, run 4ga to the single amp, etc.
I've been running it in stereo mode with a 2Ω load on each channel and it works perfectly, would it be better to bridge it and do a 4Ω load?
I'm a bit disappointed that my awesome plan didn't work out, but I don't mind. at least I'll have upgraded the electrical.
Thanks
swez on 01/20/2009 09:09:40
Yes, it's a good plan and if it's your first adventure into mobile sound, this is a good place to learn, plan system upgrades and do them in a logical sequence. (Have been at this forum for 10 years and if you add ttocs and Kittle, we have 25 years in car audio)
Hang on to your hardware for now as you may find a need for it later or a buyer that likes your system and will need some of it in time. The extra amp is definitely usable for subs or full range speakers. If you got them new and at a very low price, am sure you can resell what is not needed at what or more than you paid for it.
As for sub wiring to amp, the way you have it now is fine. (Same power as bridging into 4 ohms) That's just shy of 200 watts RMS per sub and nothing to sneeze at.
The original plan was not a bad choice. It's just not the best choice for your present application. After you have been around here a while, you'll understand things more and get the most out of what you have now. If you want even more later, there's room to grow your system in time.
What are the speakers you have in there now? (6x8" ovals or most common in Ford, Mercury and Lincoln vehicles) The stock ones are decent, but Component or Coaxials in front will change the sound for the better.
Comments?
Swez
alienascii on 01/20/2009 13:10:32
My original plan was to do this and have around 400w RMS per sub, then later on I was going to upgrade to some bigger subs, or just add 2 more 10's, and already have the power I need to run them.
I think this is the better choice though, at least for now. eventually I can get a 1000w rms monoblock or something and run my subs at 1ohm.
The stock speakers are JBL 6x8's, My car had the "premium sound" package stock. I really like how they sound, but the problem is that they can't handle the power from the HU. I can turn my HU to about 14 before the stock speakers sound like they're going to explode.
I'm thinking about replacing the stock speakers with those pioneer 6x8's that handle 240w peak.
Another question, when I hooked up my new HU, there was an "amp turn-on" wire coming from my car. If I don't hook that up to the one on my HU, the speakers don't work. does that mean I have a factory stock amplifier?
thanks :)
swez on 01/20/2009 17:30:19
If your car has the JBL Premium sound package, it's likely to have amplifiers in there too. If you do not hook up the power turn on line, the speakers will not work.
The speakers are probably reaching full amping power from the HU/amps, well before they did with your stock radio. This HU can deliver a solid 16 watts to the amplifiers, but the factory unit may have been very low power signals to feed your amps. (2-5 watts would be an educated quess) So, as you dial up the HU volume, the internal amps are getting too much power, too soon and probably get pretty rough sounding too. (High distortion levels? Yes)
Most guys either live with it as is or disconnect the internal amps and power the speakers off the HU or add an aftermarket amp to power the mid/highs later.
Hum, looked up your car at Crutchfield and they have a special harness adapter kit for internal amped models. Not sure if this is the one you'll need, but worth a call:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_120705510/Ford-Receiver-Wiring-Harness.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Photos/Default.aspx?i=120705510&g=103000# (Video of an install)
I suggest that you give them a call and ask one of the technical advisors if this harness will solve your problem. Call 1-800-319-8264 They even have an online chat feature if you wish.
Cheers,
Swez
swez on 01/20/2009 20:30:26
Okay, I'm bored and have the time to look deeper into your needs.
http://www.davidnavone.com/cart.asp?14&pid=150
This may be the ultimate solution to integration between your aftermarket HU and factory amps. This product is very well engineered with quality components, noise isolation protection and variable attenuators between the HU and all 4 factory amp channels. It's not cheap in quality or price, but if you wish to go this route, be sure to contact them via e-mail to assure this is the right product for your needs.
Note this device has variable signal level adjustments between the Aftermarket HU and your factory amps. It may take some time to tweak each channel for a well-balanced sound, but you can keep the factory amps and speakers, but dial up the HU volume enough to get your subs to pump out the bass.
Comments?
Swez
PS I understand this type of device and how it operates well. As a novice, you may go... "What the heck is all this about?" It's technically called "gain matching". But, before you order one of these, make sure your vehicle does in deed have internal amps. Navove Support Techs can confirm that before you buy and try.
PSS Who is Dave Navone? Oh, nobody special. He's the ultimate Guru in Mobile Sound for many years. OK, he's a bit full of himself, but after 30 years in this biz, he's no dummy!
alienascii on 01/21/2009 02:32:46
I did the big 3 mod, It changed my life! lol :)
Well, I tried some new high-watt stage speakers, and I still get extreme distortion pretty easily.
I've decided to just bypass the amplifier and power the speakers off of the HU. I could really use some help here from anybody that has experience with this, where would I look for the amplifier?
So I'd just take the inputs and outputs off of the amp and connect them together?
I've tried to trace the speaker wires back to the amp but I'm not having much luck.
thanks
swez on 01/21/2009 10:18:50
It might be best to run fresh speaker wires from your HU to the stock speakers and bypass the internal amps completely. I do not know where the internal amps are located in this car.
Perhaps you can start a fresh post, ask for "ttocs" input and take it from there. He's the most experienced installer on this site for Ford products and likely to be your best resource on this matter. Just give him a good summary of your work to date and see what he has to say.
Nice work on the Big 3 upgrade!
Swez
PS I cannot say for certain, but JBL/Infinity systems may have used 2 ohm speakers for this premium system. If that is true, you may have to add load resistors to each stock speaker location to get the load match to your Alpine HU. (Typically 4 ohms for Aftermarket HU's)
alienascii on 01/21/2009 13:21:34
I'll do that. I'd like to get this system finished.
Thanks for everybody's help, I really appreciate it.
I have an idea for a setup in my 96' ford thunderbird and I just wanted to check it with some of you geniuses.
My parts list is as follows (no need to suggest other parts, I already got these dirt cheap):
2 Coustic CF1044 10" subwoofers in a slot ported custom box. (rated 400w RMS 800w Peak)
2 Pioneer GM-5300T 760W 2 Channel amps
Alpine HU
Okay I'm planning on running 2Gauge wire from the battery to the trunk where I will split it into 2 4Ga wires running to the amps. 4ga grounds for both.
I will use y-splitters on both amplifiers and connect each one to a seperate (2v) preout coming from the HU
Then I will bridge both amplifiers and have each one run one sub. I'm guessing I'll get around 400w RMS per sub running them at 2ohms. That's pretty close to the rated 400w I'm sure, will it blow the subs?
Anybody see any flaws in my current plans? Any pointers? I'm new to the world of car audio and enjoying every minute of it!
Thanks
Replies (20)
ttocs on 01/18/2009 21:54:39
keep the signal to the subs clean and unclipped and it doesn't matter how much or how little you send them. Your equipment looks like it will work well together and should sound nice.
Running all that 2 awg will not do you any good unless you upgrade the stock power wires, the big 3. We have a topic on it in our often asked questions section.
just by some strange possibility is the factory radio in the car still? Do you have the info center above the radio or is it just the blank panel?
alienascii on 01/18/2009 22:39:36
Thanks!
No the factory radio isn't in the car anymore, I have it though, I just swapped it out a few days ago. I'm not sure what you're asking.
Stock power wires? by that do you mean the alternator wires?
and I have a 130 amp alt, I think that will be enough to power these 2 amps.
kirchatndftbl on 01/18/2009 23:58:14
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g3481
go to this link it will explain the big 3 upgrade....
how current is the new battery???
alienascii on 01/19/2009 00:33:36
Battery? It's a brand new batt, got is a few weeks ago. Still, at the time I didn't anticipate the hobby of car audio taking a hold of me, I may get an optima soon.
alienascii on 01/19/2009 12:42:53
I've been looking over the big 3 upgrade, and that's definitely something I'm going to do. I'm also going to sand and tap new grounds in the trunk for the amps.
Already, with one 800w amp, I get voltage drop and light dimming on heavy bass hits.
Price is a big consideration for this setup, do you think I could get away with running one 4ga wire from the battery split to two 8's?
Also can you seal a ported box or would it be too big after you sealed it?
ttocs on 01/19/2009 16:44:06
the reason I was asking about your factory radio is because there is a fuse that will blow under the hood when it is replaced with an aftermarket deck and turned up. If it has not happened yet it will and its not a big deal. THIS IS THE ONLY TIME I HAVE EVER BEEN TOLD BY ANYONE I TRUST ELECTRONICALLY THAT IT IS OK UP UPGRADE TO A BIGGER FUSE! I can't remember exactly what it was but I think it was a 10 amp fuse that needed to be 15 amps. When you find it(it is not labeled radio btw) just go the next size up and you will be fine. We swap them out at the shop when we put a deck into a t-bird.
Now the only other question is, do you have an alarm? You will need one with the more stuff you put in it to keep it from walkng away....
swez on 01/19/2009 18:00:27
The light dimming on large amplitude bass hits are normal for most stock electrical systems. (Especially at low RPMs) Upgrading to the Big 3 should help. Just leave the stock wires in place and add #4 wire to them.
Which Alpine HU model # are you using? If it's the newer V-12 series, it is fused at 15A's as ttocs mentioned. Skip the ILL wiring and ground this HU to bare metal in the dash, firewall or floor pan and not the factory harness. (#12 gage wire here)
The amps mentioned are rated at 380 watts RMS when bridged to a 4 ohm load. It's fused 2 x 30A's and will draw about 57 amperes at full power. Not bad in all, but not 2 ohm stable in bridged mode. If the amps are bridged to a 2 ohm load, they will either heat up rapidly or the protect circuits will shut them down.
Manual for your amps:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/130/130GM5300T.PDF
The Coustic subs are 4+4 DVC's and a better match would be a larger Class D amp that can deliver close to 800 watts RMS into a 1 ohm load.
Hope that helps,
Swez
alienascii on 01/19/2009 21:12:21
The HU is the Alpine CDE-9846
I've turned it way up and the fuse hasn't blown yet, could it be because I have the "premium sound" package stock?
I would like one amp that would run these right, but that's not an option as I already have this stuff. So how would I go about wiring these subs with a 4Ω load so my amp doesn't shut off?
And yes, I definitely need an alarm! It wouldn't represent a huge financial loss to me because I've only spent $200 on everything so far(craigslist) so an alarm would probably cost more than my stereo did.
ttocs on 01/19/2009 23:01:34
you can do a series parallel system to get the 4 ohm load. put the coils in each sub in parallel(connect the pos of one coil to the neg of the other) and then use the remaining empty terminals as your amps + and - and put them in parallel by connecting the +'s and -'s on the subs the amps +'s and -'s. wow, we will need to find a drawing to have that make sense huh?
The loss of the equipment is normally not the expenisive part. Replacing windows, dash pieces and other stuff they break during the install which leads to more lost time putting it back in is the real loss.
cplkittle on 01/19/2009 23:07:02
Just reading through the post and I noticed a couple of unanswered questions and items to comment on.
RCAs: I would recommend running the pair to the back and splitting them to each amp instead of one to each preout at the stereo. This stereo claims to have one set of RCA preouts. More than likely, these are labeled 'rear output'. Because they are left and right channels, each amplifier needs to receive a left and right signal to produce identical sounds. Run a single set of RCA to the rear of the vehicle and then, using 2 splitters, give each amplifier a left and a right signal. This is very important if the subwoofer enclosure is designed so that the subs share the same airspace. If the subs share the same airspace, normally we would strongly recommend that you use only one amplifier to power both subs. It is almost impossible to tune two seperate amplifiers to perform identically. Any deviation in power or movement from one sub to the other can damage the subwoofers.
I would not recomment using 4ga split to 8 ga for your power wire. Using 2ga or 0ga, then splitting to 4 ga would be much better. I know it is expensive, but it is necessary.
alienascii on 01/19/2009 23:57:54
Okay you've sold me. an Alarm will be a priority of mine. I'm not sure if those are easy to install by yourself.
I'm not sure how that sub wiring would work. So basically I wire them for an 8-ohm load and then connect the leftover positive and negative on the amp?
If I wired my subs for 8 ohms how much power would I lose? if this amp does 380w bridged at 4 ohms, does that mean it will do 240w rms at 8 ohms?
cplkittle, that's what I was going to do with the RCA's, I guess I didn't word it right.
My box is center vertical slot ported and has a separate compartment for each subwoofer. They don't share the same airspace.
Here's the box I have:
http://images.craigslist.org/3nc3k73m61171f41g09167ee99d1e78011515.jpg
About the wire, It's too late nobody commented on that so I went out and got some monster powerflex 4ga. Oh well, Maybe I'll run an 8ga with the 4? I have plenty of 8.
I'm still waiting to get my car back before I can do any of this, I get it back from the shop tomorrow. I'll post and let everybody know how things work out.
I really appreciate all the help, I'm learning a ton and Without everybody's comments here I'm sure I would make a critical error somewhere.
Thank you
swez on 01/20/2009 00:43:18
For now, it would be best to run both subs off 1 amp at 4 ohms and the amp bridged MONO. Each sub will get almost 200 watts RMS at full power and still thump pretty hard. It's safer this way, less cables to play with and if this is not enough bass for now, you can always upgrade to a larger Class D amp when $$$ is available.
Why do I suggest this? Well, several good reason come to mind.
1. Both amps are not 2 ohm stable when bridged
2. Each amp consumes almost 60A's of current per unit at full power and will overload any stock electrical system w/o upgrades
3. The net difference in audio output for your subs is only 3dB less with one amp used. (Barely enough to notice w/o a dB meter)
4. You can use the #4 gage power wire as is. The #4 is good up to 80A's + of current draw, depending on the length used.
5. As Kittle said, running dual amps will be a challenge to match output to each sub. Even though the amps and subs are the same make and model, they come off the assy line with minor deviations. (Still in specification, but not always identical)
Finally, here's the proper wiring diagram/schematic for wiring a pair of 4+4 DVC's to a net 4 ohm load. Use option #2:
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp?submitted=true&woofer_qty=2&woofer_imp=4
Questions/Comments,
Swez
alienascii on 01/20/2009 01:24:32
Swez, having looked over everything I think you're right. I wish I didn't already spend all this cash on another amp, cable and dist. blocks, but oh well. Anyone want to buy a brand new 760w amp? lol j/k
Okay, I'm just going to do the Big 3, run 4ga to the single amp, etc.
I've been running it in stereo mode with a 2Ω load on each channel and it works perfectly, would it be better to bridge it and do a 4Ω load?
I'm a bit disappointed that my awesome plan didn't work out, but I don't mind. at least I'll have upgraded the electrical.
Thanks
swez on 01/20/2009 09:09:40
Yes, it's a good plan and if it's your first adventure into mobile sound, this is a good place to learn, plan system upgrades and do them in a logical sequence. (Have been at this forum for 10 years and if you add ttocs and Kittle, we have 25 years in car audio)
Hang on to your hardware for now as you may find a need for it later or a buyer that likes your system and will need some of it in time. The extra amp is definitely usable for subs or full range speakers. If you got them new and at a very low price, am sure you can resell what is not needed at what or more than you paid for it.
As for sub wiring to amp, the way you have it now is fine. (Same power as bridging into 4 ohms) That's just shy of 200 watts RMS per sub and nothing to sneeze at.
The original plan was not a bad choice. It's just not the best choice for your present application. After you have been around here a while, you'll understand things more and get the most out of what you have now. If you want even more later, there's room to grow your system in time.
What are the speakers you have in there now? (6x8" ovals or most common in Ford, Mercury and Lincoln vehicles) The stock ones are decent, but Component or Coaxials in front will change the sound for the better.
Comments?
Swez
alienascii on 01/20/2009 13:10:32
My original plan was to do this and have around 400w RMS per sub, then later on I was going to upgrade to some bigger subs, or just add 2 more 10's, and already have the power I need to run them.
I think this is the better choice though, at least for now. eventually I can get a 1000w rms monoblock or something and run my subs at 1ohm.
The stock speakers are JBL 6x8's, My car had the "premium sound" package stock. I really like how they sound, but the problem is that they can't handle the power from the HU. I can turn my HU to about 14 before the stock speakers sound like they're going to explode.
I'm thinking about replacing the stock speakers with those pioneer 6x8's that handle 240w peak.
Another question, when I hooked up my new HU, there was an "amp turn-on" wire coming from my car. If I don't hook that up to the one on my HU, the speakers don't work. does that mean I have a factory stock amplifier?
thanks :)
swez on 01/20/2009 17:30:19
If your car has the JBL Premium sound package, it's likely to have amplifiers in there too. If you do not hook up the power turn on line, the speakers will not work.
The speakers are probably reaching full amping power from the HU/amps, well before they did with your stock radio. This HU can deliver a solid 16 watts to the amplifiers, but the factory unit may have been very low power signals to feed your amps. (2-5 watts would be an educated quess) So, as you dial up the HU volume, the internal amps are getting too much power, too soon and probably get pretty rough sounding too. (High distortion levels? Yes)
Most guys either live with it as is or disconnect the internal amps and power the speakers off the HU or add an aftermarket amp to power the mid/highs later.
Hum, looked up your car at Crutchfield and they have a special harness adapter kit for internal amped models. Not sure if this is the one you'll need, but worth a call:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_120705510/Ford-Receiver-Wiring-Harness.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Photos/Default.aspx?i=120705510&g=103000# (Video of an install)
I suggest that you give them a call and ask one of the technical advisors if this harness will solve your problem. Call 1-800-319-8264 They even have an online chat feature if you wish.
Cheers,
Swez
swez on 01/20/2009 20:30:26
Okay, I'm bored and have the time to look deeper into your needs.
http://www.davidnavone.com/cart.asp?14&pid=150
This may be the ultimate solution to integration between your aftermarket HU and factory amps. This product is very well engineered with quality components, noise isolation protection and variable attenuators between the HU and all 4 factory amp channels. It's not cheap in quality or price, but if you wish to go this route, be sure to contact them via e-mail to assure this is the right product for your needs.
Note this device has variable signal level adjustments between the Aftermarket HU and your factory amps. It may take some time to tweak each channel for a well-balanced sound, but you can keep the factory amps and speakers, but dial up the HU volume enough to get your subs to pump out the bass.
Comments?
Swez
PS I understand this type of device and how it operates well. As a novice, you may go... "What the heck is all this about?" It's technically called "gain matching". But, before you order one of these, make sure your vehicle does in deed have internal amps. Navove Support Techs can confirm that before you buy and try.
PSS Who is Dave Navone? Oh, nobody special. He's the ultimate Guru in Mobile Sound for many years. OK, he's a bit full of himself, but after 30 years in this biz, he's no dummy!
alienascii on 01/21/2009 02:32:46
I did the big 3 mod, It changed my life! lol :)
Well, I tried some new high-watt stage speakers, and I still get extreme distortion pretty easily.
I've decided to just bypass the amplifier and power the speakers off of the HU. I could really use some help here from anybody that has experience with this, where would I look for the amplifier?
So I'd just take the inputs and outputs off of the amp and connect them together?
I've tried to trace the speaker wires back to the amp but I'm not having much luck.
thanks
swez on 01/21/2009 10:18:50
It might be best to run fresh speaker wires from your HU to the stock speakers and bypass the internal amps completely. I do not know where the internal amps are located in this car.
Perhaps you can start a fresh post, ask for "ttocs" input and take it from there. He's the most experienced installer on this site for Ford products and likely to be your best resource on this matter. Just give him a good summary of your work to date and see what he has to say.
Nice work on the Big 3 upgrade!
Swez
PS I cannot say for certain, but JBL/Infinity systems may have used 2 ohm speakers for this premium system. If that is true, you may have to add load resistors to each stock speaker location to get the load match to your Alpine HU. (Typically 4 ohms for Aftermarket HU's)
alienascii on 01/21/2009 13:21:34
I'll do that. I'd like to get this system finished.
Thanks for everybody's help, I really appreciate it.
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