I need some advice regarding my subwoofer installation please! I had 2 x 500w MOQ SUBS running on a 1000w Pioneer monoblock amp. The problem is that the sub is now broken/blown (first one, then the other one). the sub was connected in parallel. why did this happen?
Amp specs:
Pioneer (GMD510) Mono Class D Power Amplifier
[Model: GMD51]
Peak Music Power 1000W
Number of Channels 1
Continuous Power (4 ohm) 300W
Continuous Power (2 ohm) 600W
Frequency Response (0, -1dB) 20~240Hz
Total Harmonic Distortion (1kHz, 4 ohm) 0.03%
As for the sub enclosures, they are ported Dimensions: +/- 500 x 500 x200 mm, with the sub on top of the 500x500 section and the underside is open. It fits just behind the seats of my corsa utility!
But most importantly I need advice on the new installation I want to do. I'm considering 2 x pioneer TS-W301R 12'' 800W subs(4 ohm each) .The TS-W301R handles 800 watts max. (150 watts nominal power). I dont think if it wil work wel with the 1000w Pioneer monoblock amp that I have? Wil the amp work better with only one sub? And if the amp is not good enough for of what kind of amp wil you suggest?
Replies (12)
ttocs on 01/3/2009 09:28:43
more then likely they were just driven too hard. I have been installing stereo for almost 15 and been doing my own for a few years before that and I have never blown a sub. I have had small subs hooked up to lotsa power like in my mustang now and early on I had small amps that underpowered the sub. Heat is what blows a sub and it can accumulate through clipping or just being on too loud for too long but either way they do not blow themselfs......
swez on 01/3/2009 13:45:01
Agreed... a very common problem for newbies that are just getting into the game.
Care to do a post mortum autopsy on both subs and determine the damage points? You'll be looking for evidence of thermal and mechanical problems. Can walk you through the process if/as needed.
Before buying replacement subs, give some details about your sub enclosure too.
1. Sealed/Ported/Bandpass
2. Air chamber dimensions (Internally)
3. Model # of your Pioneer amp
4. Specs or link to fried subs
All this will help us to get you back on board toward not toasting your replacement subs.
Swez
kobus on 01/6/2009 10:27:36
I have examined the subs but cant see any signs of thermal damage one it! Another thing is my cd-player (Pioneer DEH-P7650MP) ... when its volume is half open (Level 30 of 62) it plays as hard as hell,a bit more and it sounds as if the speakers cant handle it any more. is this maybe because my gain control on the amps was not set right?
The other things you have asked I've editted into the original question above.
Swez, I can email you a scetch of my enclosures if I can get an email adres.
Kobus
swez on 01/6/2009 14:35:52
It does sound like your gain settings are off a bit. Your amp should be barely clipping with the HU setting on 50.
Also, to save some wear and tear on your speakers, set the HPF for large format (6x9" ovals or 6" rounds) speakers to 80 Hz. If you have smaller speakers in the front, they need bass blocking filters to pull out the lows.
E-mail addy pending Kobus. Think I'll set up a special one for CK readers. When done and tested, I'll shoot it to you OK?
Have used Power Point to make well-detailed drawings in the past. It's better than MS Paint tools. Include all the dimensions. All the color tools and you can add dimensions and other notations as well.
Swez
PS I take it by the info on your gear, you are from the UK/EU? What general area?
Here, am located in the Midwest part of the USA. Michigan is the state and the largest city nearby is Detroit. It's mid winter here now and kinda chilly to cold. (high today of -2 C, low of -5 C) Typical for this time of year, but for the next 8-10 weeks, can get a lot colder. GRIN
kobus on 01/7/2009 10:24:35
Thanx for the reply! Great to know where you're from! Actually I'm from Namibia southern africa) staying in the Kalahari! But I think there is a possibility that the parts are imported from england. You say "kinda chilly", thats some of our coldest nights here! But for now its in the the heart of summer and as hot as hell, temps going up to 43 degrees celsius!
Another thing I want to ask is the pioneer subs I want to buy is stated that it uses 150w nominal power, whats this nominal power they talk about on the site http://www.autostyle.co.za/prodview.php?prod_id=16322
I'll wait for the email and sent you the diagrams and photos of installation.
swez on 01/7/2009 14:12:36
Egads, that is pretty hot all right. Our summers get warm to about 34-36 degrees C, but the humidity makes it feel more intense.
How did you wind up in the Kalahari Desert? Have seen many nature films and the wild life is amazingly diverse.
These Pioneer subs may be a little too weak for the amp you have now. The nominal power refers to how much the sub can take on a continous basis. Your amp is rated at 600 watts continous power @ 2 ohm loads.
In the hands of a skilled user, it can be done. In the hands of a novice, too easy to fry these too. If you can find a matched pair that can take 300 watts continously per sub, 4 ohm coils and fits well in the box range, you'll have a winner. Send up your box info and we'll have a look.
Email: swezdp@yahoo.com
Swez
kobus on 01/8/2009 09:15:58
Hi Swez! I grew up on a sheep farm in the Kalahari my whole life and are the 5th generation of my family here! Very hot but won't trade it for any other place in the world! OK maybe Cape Town in South Africa. I study Civil engineering at Stellenbosch(Lots of Winelands haha) near Cape Town... Wonderful piece of earth!
I have emailed you the scetches of my boxes! Its 2 boxes (I think you can call it "free air", because it's open on the underside and back).
I've search for other subs and found the following: Pioneer 12” TS-W307F 900w Subwoofer on the site :
http://www.autostyle.co.za/prodview.php?prod_id=16176&pid=sound&cid=subs&pg=2&showall=&brandstr=&str=
Would they work better? and what about peak power, wouldn't 2 subs in parallel ( 1800w ) be too much for the amp? Or is it just the rms (nominal) power that matters?
Thanks alot for your support!
ttocs on 01/8/2009 10:53:51
another international member, welcome!
swez on 01/8/2009 15:18:02
Got the pics and drawings too. Nice shot of the desert, just before a rain.
Tight fit on the boxes and yes, almost a free air type wedge.
Okay, the numbers you gave me came out to 0.82 ft^3 per box, minus the sub displacement. That's a little on the small side for sealed, but this box is more like a free air design and should work.
That sub you listed has an "F" designator in the model number. That often indicates it's designed for free air systems. Yep, they are free air in design and your net depth with this sub is oh so close. Keeping the coils cool will be a challenge. Have a look:
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/25/130/201/TS-W307F/index.html
Note: The Height of the sub is 143mm and H2 on your wedge is 130mm. At the center point of the face, that leaves about 200mm for height. That is cutting things very close to the air vent at the bottom of the sub.
Hum, not sure if this is just plain good luck, careful shopping or pure serendipity, but from where I stand, these subs are a very good fit for your project.
Comments?
Swez
PS We always use the "RMS or Continous Power" numbers for amps, subs and speakers. Most Mfg's hype the PEAK numbers, but they are pretty useless numbers. That's from the Marketing spin doctors. An engineer or tech would never sign off on such hog slop. (Sheep-dip)
kobus on 01/10/2009 03:11:05
I'm glad that the subs would be a good fit into the project althought a bit more expensive but not too much.
As for the cooling of the coils, I've thought of fitting a small fan on the side of the box blowing cool air into the box sort of on the coil. Would it help or would the fan interfere with the sound quality of the subs? I think the interference would be minimal.
Then if I install the subs and adjust the gain settings on the pioneer amp, must I adjust the gain settings on my 4 channel amp running the other speakers as well?
As for the rms and peak ratings... thanks alot because you've cleared out alot of confusion for me!
kobus on 01/10/2009 03:11:31
Thanks for the welcome ttocs!
swez on 01/10/2009 09:40:40
If the sub cones are moving well enough and there are no major restriction to hinder the rear vent, the subs should remain cool enough without fans. (This is a psudo free air system too and that should help)
After you get your subs and install them, come back for some tips on setting up the rest of your system. Our FAQ & DIY sections have plenty of good information already and reading them before you make the next step should get you back in the game quickly.
Comments?
Swez
Amp specs:
Pioneer (GMD510) Mono Class D Power Amplifier
[Model: GMD51]
Peak Music Power 1000W
Number of Channels 1
Continuous Power (4 ohm) 300W
Continuous Power (2 ohm) 600W
Frequency Response (0, -1dB) 20~240Hz
Total Harmonic Distortion (1kHz, 4 ohm) 0.03%
As for the sub enclosures, they are ported Dimensions: +/- 500 x 500 x200 mm, with the sub on top of the 500x500 section and the underside is open. It fits just behind the seats of my corsa utility!
But most importantly I need advice on the new installation I want to do. I'm considering 2 x pioneer TS-W301R 12'' 800W subs(4 ohm each) .The TS-W301R handles 800 watts max. (150 watts nominal power). I dont think if it wil work wel with the 1000w Pioneer monoblock amp that I have? Wil the amp work better with only one sub? And if the amp is not good enough for of what kind of amp wil you suggest?
Replies (12)
ttocs on 01/3/2009 09:28:43
more then likely they were just driven too hard. I have been installing stereo for almost 15 and been doing my own for a few years before that and I have never blown a sub. I have had small subs hooked up to lotsa power like in my mustang now and early on I had small amps that underpowered the sub. Heat is what blows a sub and it can accumulate through clipping or just being on too loud for too long but either way they do not blow themselfs......
swez on 01/3/2009 13:45:01
Agreed... a very common problem for newbies that are just getting into the game.
Care to do a post mortum autopsy on both subs and determine the damage points? You'll be looking for evidence of thermal and mechanical problems. Can walk you through the process if/as needed.
Before buying replacement subs, give some details about your sub enclosure too.
1. Sealed/Ported/Bandpass
2. Air chamber dimensions (Internally)
3. Model # of your Pioneer amp
4. Specs or link to fried subs
All this will help us to get you back on board toward not toasting your replacement subs.
Swez
kobus on 01/6/2009 10:27:36
I have examined the subs but cant see any signs of thermal damage one it! Another thing is my cd-player (Pioneer DEH-P7650MP) ... when its volume is half open (Level 30 of 62) it plays as hard as hell,a bit more and it sounds as if the speakers cant handle it any more. is this maybe because my gain control on the amps was not set right?
The other things you have asked I've editted into the original question above.
Swez, I can email you a scetch of my enclosures if I can get an email adres.
Kobus
swez on 01/6/2009 14:35:52
It does sound like your gain settings are off a bit. Your amp should be barely clipping with the HU setting on 50.
Also, to save some wear and tear on your speakers, set the HPF for large format (6x9" ovals or 6" rounds) speakers to 80 Hz. If you have smaller speakers in the front, they need bass blocking filters to pull out the lows.
E-mail addy pending Kobus. Think I'll set up a special one for CK readers. When done and tested, I'll shoot it to you OK?
Have used Power Point to make well-detailed drawings in the past. It's better than MS Paint tools. Include all the dimensions. All the color tools and you can add dimensions and other notations as well.
Swez
PS I take it by the info on your gear, you are from the UK/EU? What general area?
Here, am located in the Midwest part of the USA. Michigan is the state and the largest city nearby is Detroit. It's mid winter here now and kinda chilly to cold. (high today of -2 C, low of -5 C) Typical for this time of year, but for the next 8-10 weeks, can get a lot colder. GRIN
kobus on 01/7/2009 10:24:35
Thanx for the reply! Great to know where you're from! Actually I'm from Namibia southern africa) staying in the Kalahari! But I think there is a possibility that the parts are imported from england. You say "kinda chilly", thats some of our coldest nights here! But for now its in the the heart of summer and as hot as hell, temps going up to 43 degrees celsius!
Another thing I want to ask is the pioneer subs I want to buy is stated that it uses 150w nominal power, whats this nominal power they talk about on the site http://www.autostyle.co.za/prodview.php?prod_id=16322
I'll wait for the email and sent you the diagrams and photos of installation.
swez on 01/7/2009 14:12:36
Egads, that is pretty hot all right. Our summers get warm to about 34-36 degrees C, but the humidity makes it feel more intense.
How did you wind up in the Kalahari Desert? Have seen many nature films and the wild life is amazingly diverse.
These Pioneer subs may be a little too weak for the amp you have now. The nominal power refers to how much the sub can take on a continous basis. Your amp is rated at 600 watts continous power @ 2 ohm loads.
In the hands of a skilled user, it can be done. In the hands of a novice, too easy to fry these too. If you can find a matched pair that can take 300 watts continously per sub, 4 ohm coils and fits well in the box range, you'll have a winner. Send up your box info and we'll have a look.
Email: swezdp@yahoo.com
Swez
kobus on 01/8/2009 09:15:58
Hi Swez! I grew up on a sheep farm in the Kalahari my whole life and are the 5th generation of my family here! Very hot but won't trade it for any other place in the world! OK maybe Cape Town in South Africa. I study Civil engineering at Stellenbosch(Lots of Winelands haha) near Cape Town... Wonderful piece of earth!
I have emailed you the scetches of my boxes! Its 2 boxes (I think you can call it "free air", because it's open on the underside and back).
I've search for other subs and found the following: Pioneer 12” TS-W307F 900w Subwoofer on the site :
http://www.autostyle.co.za/prodview.php?prod_id=16176&pid=sound&cid=subs&pg=2&showall=&brandstr=&str=
Would they work better? and what about peak power, wouldn't 2 subs in parallel ( 1800w ) be too much for the amp? Or is it just the rms (nominal) power that matters?
Thanks alot for your support!
ttocs on 01/8/2009 10:53:51
another international member, welcome!
swez on 01/8/2009 15:18:02
Got the pics and drawings too. Nice shot of the desert, just before a rain.
Tight fit on the boxes and yes, almost a free air type wedge.
Okay, the numbers you gave me came out to 0.82 ft^3 per box, minus the sub displacement. That's a little on the small side for sealed, but this box is more like a free air design and should work.
That sub you listed has an "F" designator in the model number. That often indicates it's designed for free air systems. Yep, they are free air in design and your net depth with this sub is oh so close. Keeping the coils cool will be a challenge. Have a look:
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/25/130/201/TS-W307F/index.html
Note: The Height of the sub is 143mm and H2 on your wedge is 130mm. At the center point of the face, that leaves about 200mm for height. That is cutting things very close to the air vent at the bottom of the sub.
Hum, not sure if this is just plain good luck, careful shopping or pure serendipity, but from where I stand, these subs are a very good fit for your project.
Comments?
Swez
PS We always use the "RMS or Continous Power" numbers for amps, subs and speakers. Most Mfg's hype the PEAK numbers, but they are pretty useless numbers. That's from the Marketing spin doctors. An engineer or tech would never sign off on such hog slop. (Sheep-dip)
kobus on 01/10/2009 03:11:05
I'm glad that the subs would be a good fit into the project althought a bit more expensive but not too much.
As for the cooling of the coils, I've thought of fitting a small fan on the side of the box blowing cool air into the box sort of on the coil. Would it help or would the fan interfere with the sound quality of the subs? I think the interference would be minimal.
Then if I install the subs and adjust the gain settings on the pioneer amp, must I adjust the gain settings on my 4 channel amp running the other speakers as well?
As for the rms and peak ratings... thanks alot because you've cleared out alot of confusion for me!
kobus on 01/10/2009 03:11:31
Thanks for the welcome ttocs!
swez on 01/10/2009 09:40:40
If the sub cones are moving well enough and there are no major restriction to hinder the rear vent, the subs should remain cool enough without fans. (This is a psudo free air system too and that should help)
After you get your subs and install them, come back for some tips on setting up the rest of your system. Our FAQ & DIY sections have plenty of good information already and reading them before you make the next step should get you back in the game quickly.
Comments?
Swez
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