If I recall you helped me purchase the components for my 55 Chevy. I'm about done with it now and I'm looking for help with sub enclosures
Replies (66)
swez on 01/1/2009 01:39:16
Well Tuned, you may be right but it's been a while and welcome back!
So, what do you have in mind on the whole project from here on in? Fill us in on the key details of your project and we'll pull ya through the plans.
Did you swap engines or stay pretty much stock? It seems this vintage had either the inline 6 or a small V-8 option back than. Some guys ditched that for a 350, 390 or LS2 Vette V-8's.
OK, spell out your ideas and let's see what we can come up with.
Swez
PS One concern... how much ALT power do you have in this car? The stock ones were only about 40-50A's. That will not power a large bass engine. (300 watts RMS; 35-40A's current tops)
Tuned55 on 01/1/2009 19:29:49
After thinking back I think it's been 3 years ago. You gave me some great buying advice. If you recall you asked if I would sponsor a needy family for the holidays. But like I said that was 3 maybe 4 years ago
Ok this is what I have
Alpine CDA-9833
Kicker 600.1
Kicker 600.4
CDT CL-61A
Rockford Fosgate P-1694
2-Alpine Type R SWR-124
16 ga. Knukonceptz wire for CDT and Fosgates
12 ga for subs
Streetwire for RCA
1/0 for power to to fuse block then 4 gauge to amps w/ 60 amp fuses
4 gauge for amp grounds
My battery is in the trunk so I was planning on grounding directly to the battery. My car is n the upostery shop for another 3-4 weeks but I need some imput for what I have so far,
placement of the CDT's, I woould like to put them up front in the kick panel but from what I have rear the A pillar would be best for the tweeters and mids up high in the door panel?
Will the Fosgates be compatible in the rear package tray. If so do they need to be in a sealed enclosure?
From what I have read I'm thinking a sealed box for the subs. My choice of music is rock. I'm after good clean sound.
Should the subs fire to the rear of the trunk?
What size enclosure would you recomend?
Ok I can take it....{:o) what should I change, the Fosgates?
A little about my 55. I built a Corvette C4 frame for it. It's an LS6 with a 6 speed. I think I have a link for it somewhere in my profile here.
I have given the ALT some thought and I would really like to know if I need more power. I believe it's a stock 60 amp unit.
Looking forward to all advice
Bruce
swez on 01/1/2009 21:03:18
Ahhh, it's coming back to me now Bruce and I want you to know the family we raised funds for was a huge success. (Think you had another handle back then?) We bought plenty of food, clothing for the whole family and toys/clothing for their handicapped son.
You should have seen the look on their faces when we pulled up to their humble little trailer to drop off the food & gifts. It was a very sobering event for Jen & I to see how poor these folks were. But in the end, we did the right thing and many thanks to the contributors that made it possible. We actually had enough left over to help another needy family in the process. How cool is that?
Okay, looking at your gear choices, all looks good except for the ALT/BAT package to power this rig. Fortunately, the vintage cars did not have all the electronics we see in modern cars. They did fine with a low wattage ALT. Now, things are very different.
Your amplifiers are going to need a larger ALT/BAT combo to work properly. (Think 150A's here unless you added some additional features to this 55 Chevy) That should not be a big problem with your Big Block Chevy. It won't be cheap, but what's another $300.00 after all you've done to restore this car?
The CDT's will sound nice in custom kicks if you have the room. Most glass their own or send that out to skilled fabricators to blend it all together. If you went with more traditional door mounts up front, the MB driver is best down low and the tweeter in the same vertical plane on the door panel, but not aimed at the driver/passenger. These are not the end-all, be-all Comps available today, but with proper staging and filtering, you'll have a nice SQL system in time.
The Fosgate 6x9's in the rear parcel shelf should help the lower MB sound in this car. (These are 3-way coaxials) Some fine tuning will help get you to a very satisfactory sound in time. If the bass is overly strong from the subs, you may need to enclose the x9's with sealed enclosures to prevent the subs from affecting thier overall performance.
As for the Alpine subs, these sound great in compact sealed enclosure. Each chamber in the 0.75 - 0.85 cf range, should give nice bass in a huge trunk like this car offers. As for orientation, subs facing back toward the bumber is a good starting point. But, feel free to experiment to get the best bass you can. (Moving the box around until you get it just right) I take it you have the earlier model 4-ohm, single coils subs? (Please confirm they are not the newer SWR-1242D's; 4+4 DVC's)
LS6 engine and a 6 speed tranny sounds like a winner. That's what, the 454 CID Aluminum block, 385 HP and used in Vetts, Cameros and Chevelle from the 70's? (Sweet) Oh yeah, had a old 72 Pontiac Grandville with the 454. This thing was heavy, but ran like rabbit with its tail on fire when you hit the gas pedal. That was back in athe days of real cheap petrol.
Questions/comments,
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/1/2009 23:30:46
Man that's cool we were able to help a needy family! Thanks for the update, Glad I was able to help out.
Thanks for all the imput. I'm glad to see I don't have to fill my trunk full of MDF! .75 - .85cf sound good to me. Seems like a small box for 12" subs? I'll dbl check the subs just to be sure on the specs. The only issue with the sub enclouser I have is the trunk will be finished like the inerior. I kind a have to get a layout so I can have the interior guy finish the trunk with the rest of the car. Will moving the subs around make a real noticable difference? If so I'll build the boxes and go through the process of doing it right. How many posistioin options are there? Facing rear, facing up, facing each other, or facing into the rear of the seat? I have ever seen them facing the frontwards with no enclosure at all.
I used FatMat through out the car and trunk floor.
The engine is a LS1 from a 98 Camaro LS6 updates. As far as DC power items this car it has power lock, window, seats, and electronic fuel injection.
Have a look at my car here http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/20241225
My wife and I are planning on driving this car from So.Utah to Pigeon Forge,TN in May.
Bruce
swez on 01/2/2009 00:53:03
Wow, amazing work there Bruce. This is a real masterpiece of time, love for old cars and attention to details. It looks like you even installed A/C into this build?
As for the sub enclosure, sealed and compact are just right for Alpine's SWR series. As for placement, rear firing is most common. Some guys have done tests with the sub snugged up near the rear seat back, firing into the rear seats with very good results. Adjusting the distance from the rear wall is the trick.
Upfiring is great in pickups and taller truck cabins, but in a trunk mounted sedan, NOPE! Some guys go a step further and cut out an air vent in the parcel shelf so that the punchy bass comes into the cabin. Think about that as an option as you wrap up the interior trim.
Like the custom Belair head covers and a neat color scheme as well. The new dash panel looks pretty neat too. The engine has so much poloished metal, probably need sunglasses to see it all? hehe
Have you ever heard of the "Woodward Dream Cruise"? Detroit does this every summer and people like yourself come from all over the USA to participate. They are mostly vintage and custom Street Rods and restored cars from the past. It seems to me, this event lasts all week and when folks are in town for this event, we some really sweet dream cars all over the area during the week. If you can make it for one of them, I'd like to meet you and the family and have you show me every jot and tiddle on this car.
Finally, please confirm the Alpine sub version you have now. They have brought out a whole new line of subs in the last few years and we want to make sure you have the right match for that Kicker amp you have now.
Swez
PS You were the largest single donation on the Christmas list on my side of the ledger. Jen was the #1 giver and we had a total of 15 contributors to this project. There was enough for the targeted family and some left over to help another family too. Yep, it was an amazing event and I will never forget it. Thanks for your support! CLAP It made a real differnce to all. Your gift was put to very good use. USFLAG
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/2/2009 01:36:06
Thanks for the kind words. I don't think i'll ever do another one like this again. I had to do it once and test my skills. I've done all the work myself except for the internal motor up grades and the interior. I feel with the help of this forum I can handle the sound also.
I'd love to do the Woodward Dream Cruise someday. It's on my list and if the economy gets back on it's feet it just may happen. Wife and I fell in love with the south several years ago and try to get back there once in a while. The 55 will be done soon so we are useing that for an excuse to attend a Classic Chevy show in May.
hey while I have you here....lol would you know why my remote power door lock want to lock on their own every once in a while? I don't recall the brand but I can sure look in my shop tomorrow. I know there is a feature that will lock them after 60 seconds or so but that feature is turned off. Any ideas?
newB on 01/2/2009 05:28:39
"placement of the CDT's, I woould like to put them up front in the kick panel but from what I have rear the A pillar would be best for the tweeters and mids up high in the door panel?"
Some swear by having the tweets and mids within a few inches of each other while others like the sound of the mids lower in the door but farther away from the ear. Getting them into the Kick will give them good staging and blend, where as putting the mids higher in the door near the tweets they will be a bit more harsh, loud, and more defined. (close your eyes... can you p picture where the speaker is in your head?) I say get your equipment wired up first, and play with various alignments by hand to see what your tastes prefer. Once you know what sounds best in your ride and to you, then work on glassing in the pods and getting them tweets into the A pillar!! There is no "wrong" for placement just what you enjoy or dislike, so experiment!
"Will the Fosgates be compatible in the rear package tray. If so do they need to be in a sealed enclosure?"
I'm assuming, looking at the number that it is the single 4ohm rockford 6x9 so correct me if i'm wrong. For the rear fill they can be placed into the rear deck/package tray firing towards the rear window. Your main staging and emphasis should be in the front, the back just gives a full feeling. You can purchase little 6x9 covers so the bass does not distort the mids from pressure from the trunk, but with a dual 10s/12s sealed/higher tuned vented you shouldn't have a problem.
"From what I have read I'm thinking a sealed box for the subs. My choice of music is rock. I'm after good clean sound."
Like mentioned earlier in my post- Music is all opinion and i would highly recommend playing with different boxes to find your own taste. Sealed is the classic, and will work fine for your application although if your not looking for the deep infrasonic tones a higher tuned ported box will pick up better upper bass and keep the kick drum hits crisp and clean- worth the time and effort to build one. Reason number 2 i would suggest starting with ported is because its nice to have "overhead". Volume that you don't need all the time, but can be safely reached when your feeling that itch GRIN
"Should the subs fire to the rear of the trunk?"
yes! to keep cancellation and phase issues to a minimum you want woofers towards the trunk, and if you chose to go ported shoot the ports on the same axis as woofers
"What size enclosure would you recomend?
Ported/Vented:
1cuft @40hz for 10s
1.5cuft @38hz for 12s
Sealed
.75-1cuft for 10s
1-1.5cuft for 12s
On a final note, if you consider picking up some high quality woofers look into companies like:
www.dcsoundlab.com
www.ficaraudio.com
The DC lvl 3 or Fi Q are perfect for your application and will out perform the Alpines on many levels.
-Drew
Tuned55 on 01/2/2009 12:25:03
This all looks like great info. I'm not afraid to build ported subs but where do I get the demsions and specs? Is it all about the cubic size or is a deeper and not wider encliuser better? What size and where should the port be located, anywhere in the front so it's headed the same direction as the sub? Is there a site to wouod show specs for what I would need to build?
Where would you rate the 12'' Alpines Type R I have now? I was under the impression they where pretty nice subs?
I think at this time I won't be able to throw much more money at this system. The Fi Q's look like an awesome sub but looks to be out of reach at the moment.
Bruce
swez on 01/2/2009 12:25:36
Thanks for the good inputs Drew. SMILE
I may be wrong, but think a guy who is doing all this $$$$ restoration work on a vintage car, is an older guy with a family. The main focus is a vintage show car with a balanced sound system and not a ground pounding bass machine to rattle the skull loose.
As for the door lock issues mentioned, I don't have a background in that kind of gear. Ttocs or CPLKittle are probably the most qualified guys here to help out on that one.
One could spend a lot of time researching your model version and find very little help. In this case, going right to the Mfg and getting tips from Tech Service, would be a better route. (If they are still in biz)
If you want to spend some time reading about general design and function testing, have gander over here:
http://www.the12volt.com/doorlocks/doorlocks.asp
Keep in touch as you get ready for your sub install. Still need the proper model # of the subs you have now.
Dave
swez on 01/2/2009 13:23:26
55,
We know that it's the old 80/20 rule here. 20% of the results are gear related. The 80% is more about the install techniques and fine tuning process we use later.
I don't see any glaring problems with the product list mentioned before, that cannot be managed after the install is completed.
For now, stay on the charted path we have discussed and we'll address any issues as they pop up in the process.
The Apline HU has some very nice tools and features to dial in your system after the install is completed. Yes, there are newer products out there to look at, but if you use what you have on hand, I do not see any real fatal flaws to chop your budget to pieces. (Except a stronger ALT to power the entire car as needed)
Stay the course for now,
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/2/2009 13:41:41
Yep Swez your correct on the old guy comment. I'm 52 and have 5 grand kids {:o). See I grew up with all the great rock and roll. This car is something I have always wanted to do and am lucky to be able to get r done. It's not gonna be a show car but a driver. Along with haveing this hot rod is a fine sound system. I don't really care what others think of what I have done. So as long as it sounds good to me and my wife is consantly telling me to "Turn it down" I'm happy.
I'll get you the sub info when I get home this evening. I had to open up the shop today and the guys want to work all day so I'm stuck here.
I know the compomemts I have are not the latest but they are all still new in the box. I jumped the gun when I bought them thinking this car would not have taken as long as it did. It was just flat out a LOT of work. At times I had to walk away from it for a month or two. I'm pretty stoked to be on the final road and building this system is going to be a blast.
I counldn't for the life of me remember where I met you Swez, then I did a "Swez" google search and BAM there you were...LOL
Thanks for everyones help. I thkni this system is going to be a real " TRIP" ( There;s that 70's era terminolgy"
I'm off to read the link you posted. THANK'S!
swez on 01/2/2009 16:42:41
Hehe, good story on the google search thing. Yeah, any can find me there and link back to CK.
I had a sense we were about the same age Bruce. Younger guys don't have the knowledge, $$$ and patince to restore a car like this. When you said 70's Rock... ding ding ding bell went off again. Then, I looked at your photo album shots and I presume that was your wife slabbing down some filler or shaping a panel? I looked at the rock on her finger and her facial features and thought... mid- 40's mom and a good sport on this hobby of yours. Interesting profile guesses huh? (Am I close?)
How was business down at the shop in 08? My twin brother Dale closed his books and said he had less opportunities in 08, but more profits to close the year a tad lower, but still in black ink.
I'll stop here for now and await your answer on the subs,
Dave
newB on 01/2/2009 18:31:44
i tried to keep in mind the age, music, and volume preference GRIN
all my expereince is that a 40hz tuning for a pair of 10s destroys all music but the gangsta tones that play +20db @25hz.
AND out performed my sealed box at kick drum hits and low bass guitar
GL with your build, car looks like a labor of love and came out great, really worth the time and effort!!
-Drew
Tuned55 on 01/2/2009 20:31:15
OK, Back to the subs. The box reads;
SWR-1241D
4ohm+4ohm
Type R
12 inch
High Performance
Dual Voice Coil
Subwoofer
1000W Peak
Are these the newer ones?
swez on 01/2/2009 22:56:27
That version is the first Alpine to go to Dual Voice Coils. (~3+ years ago) They have changed a few things since then, but this sub should still do ya proud.
The good news here, you only need one sub powered off the Kicker 600.1. A single SWR can handle it all. That means a very compact enclosure in the trunk and if you have 2 subs, one is now a spare. (This amp cannot run 1 ohm loads well) If you wired it for a pair at net 4 ohms, the power dropsto about 1/2 its output at 2 ohms.
See the connection?
Tuned55 on 01/2/2009 23:15:47
Dave... I'm afraid your last post is as clear as mud but in my defense I'm beat and it now feels like a Friday for the first time today (;ol
So, one 12" sub will do the rick or one is all my amp will handle? The last system I had in this car only had 1 10" MTX and it was OK at best.
I'm shutting down for the night.
I really appriciate all the help and imput on my system
Bruce
swez on 01/2/2009 23:29:07
Get some rest, clear the ol noggin and we'll take it up a notch over the weekend.
In a nutshell, one Alpine sub is sufficient for the project and gear on hand. If you wanted to use both, we have more noodling and expenses to consider.
FYI: The older MTX subs were pretty marginal at best. Some of their new gear is actually very good. But they are pricey too.
We can go into more detail after a good nights' rest OK?
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/5/2009 16:33:39
Hi Dave, just a nte to let you know I haven't left for the moon,. Life has me wrapped up at the moment. I'll be back soon
Bruce
Tuned55 on 01/6/2009 19:49:11
Woah Dave..... As John Force often says, " I think I need a pill" LOL
Ok while I have moment...... I mentioned to a few buddies about having a 600.1 amp and 2 -12'' subs and how you advised using one sub. They say " Why" ,"I say I dunno I'll ask Dave"
Whay Dave? {:ol
swez on 01/7/2009 01:41:58
Okay, took my chill pill... we can talk now.
How do we approach a techie type subject, w/o getting too techie?
The subs on hand are 4+4 DVC's. Depending how they are wired as a set, you get 1, 4 or 16 ohms as the load. (With me so far?)
This amp is not stated as 1 ohm stable. It delivers 600 RMS watts @ 2 ohms and 300 watts @ 4 ohms. (KX-600.1 series, circa 2004?)
This amp produces its most power at 2 ohms. If we use only 1 DVC sub, we get a perfect 2 ohm load match with both coils in parallel. (600 watts from amp) That's good traction through the drive train and maximum power to the rear wheels from the rear differential. (One happy pig and the clutch ain't missin a beat either)
If we go the dual sub route, the best you'll get is ~300 RMS watts from the amp and 150 watts to each sub in 4 ohm wiring configuration. This is like starting off the line in 3rd gear. (Not so hot as half the power is like a badly slipping clutch and poor power transfer to the rear wheels)
If the amp were 1 ohm stable, you could use both subs and get 300 watts to each sub. That's not a bad deal for the subs, as long as the amp does not go into protect mode.
Uhmmm, you have me over a barrel here Bruce. If this were my gear to test and play with, I'd try a controlled experiment to see how the amp responds to a 1 ohm load. (Both subs in full parallel) The KX-1200.1 is 1 ohm stable and I would be willing to test the KX-600.1 to see how it handles a 1 ohm load. (A Calculated risk taker here)
If you are a "calculated risk taker", I have a game plan for you to consider and would do it myself on a test bench first. However, if you are an ardent "risk avoider", use 1 sub and enjoy what you have w/o worry. You can go ported or sealed with this sub and have a backup in the event one fails.
Pick your options as you see fit. Just like tweaking an engine, tranny and rear end gear ratios for max performance when you want it, we can do similar tricks in car audio. (To a degree)
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/7/2009 11:54:13
Ok Dave I appreciate you putting this in terms I understand better. It's all about compatibility and one component enhancing the other. So being that I will want to install this system and be done with it, so to speak, I'm going to have you take a gander at what you think I'm after and go with that. Will I be happy with one efficant 12" sub or should I consider a different amp or subs. I really don't want to spend much more on this than I have already but I don't want to go back to do what I wish I had done in the first place. My plan is to recess the amps on either side of the trunk. If I were to go back to change out to a different amp it could be a major process. I'd like to have you say I'm fine with one sub.... ( hmmm I think you have already said that in previous post....) Just double checking, measure twice cut once :o)
THANKS!!
Bruce
swez on 01/7/2009 13:38:55
Bruce,
In this case, 1 strong sub is going to get the job done. This amp and sub combo are not cheap toys. They are both serious, get down to biz and make some change in your cup holder dance.
You'll be pleased after the install and the sub breaks in. ;~)
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/7/2009 18:32:31
Cool, then one sub it is. Lets discuss the enclosure next. I could have my car back in a week or so while he dose the seats so I'm thinking about building the enclosure.
swez on 01/7/2009 19:36:44
In this case, you have 2 main options:
1. A Compact sealed box (Small, good overall performer and easy to make)
2. A larger port tuned box (Larger, better deep bass and a few more dB's bass at tuning frequency)
Both are good and each has Pros & Cons. Much of this choice depends on the music you prefer best. Tell us more about that and we'll lead you to the best option.
Swez
PS I could use a little help from you too Bruce. It's about small, 2-cycle gas engines for snow machines. For a while, the carb was running way to rich on this small Toro machine I picked up for nothing. It ran, but very rich and there are no external air or fuel nozzles to adjust.
A little while later, it went very lean and would not stay running, even with some choke added. Well, today I went out and bought/replaced the primer bulb. It was a tight fit and had to use hot water to make the bulb pliable to fit over the primer flange. (Success)
So, I take it back out to the garage to install and note the carburator is now leaking fuel like crazy again. (Float/needle seat are stuck in empty fuel bowl mode again and flooding over) What the heck? Do I need to pull the fuel bowl clean the needle and seat and reset the float tang so it runs properly?
It's a good machine when it runs properly. But I suspect the owner before I got it, did not empty the old fuel and or use STABILIZER to prevent varnish and gunk in the summer season? What-cha think on the matter as noted?
Tuned55 on 01/7/2009 23:30:00
Dave it sounds like a small Honda generator I have. Was really hard to start at times and other times it leaked from a stuck float needle. I removed the carb and did a cleaning and it helped but still not right. I removed the carb again dismantled it and soaked it in carb cleaning solution. Used the very small wire cleaning set I have for my paint spray guns and really cleaned every where possible. Blew it all out with air bought a new needle and it works like new now. It sounds like you have a similar problem with varnish. Running rich would be too much fuel, of coarse, from a needle not properly controling the amount of fuel in the bowl and the lean situation I would guess would be built up varnish chocking the fuel supply thus creating a lean situation. The thing is with this crap we all know as todays gasoline dose not last long before it goes bad. The smaller amount the fast it will jel. I always try to turn of the fuel suppy and let the motor starve if I know it's going to be parked for a while. I do like the Stable product. I have to use that on my RV generator or it's a major ordeal to keep up the maintnace. All and all I'd have to suspect a dirty carb. The more you run it the more likely more of the varnish will flake off and cause problems.
One other problem you may encounter sith a small 2 stroke is the gas will evapoate and leave an oil residue. Again it's best to run them out of fuel if you can.
As far as my choice of music I have to say rock. Pink Floyd, ZZ Top, Metalica, Nickle Back, Clapton, Zepplin early Aerosmith,etc. I don't care add any more bass that what was origanly intended by the artist. A full spectrum of clean sound. I have the room fo a large box if needed and all the tools nessasary to build what ever you recomend.
Let me know how you make out with your Toro
Bruce
swez on 01/8/2009 00:12:35
Yep, I've tinkered with a many of these before and found them to be very tempermental with varnish deposits. A good clean/flush helped last year and I run them til empty at the end of the season.
I also shoot a little WD-40 into the carb to minimize water distillation and prevent contamination too. In most cases, WD-40 does a very good job to coat internal parts during the off season. In this case, I may have to drop the fuel bowl and inspect/replace the needle jet assy. Will let ya know as I see progress.
As for your sub box, am inclined to try a sealed box first. Sealed boxes are the easiest to build, handle more power and and sound more accurate in the overall.
Ported enclosures are good for boosting low-end bass, but more work in the process. But the amp used, must have SSF filtering too. If sealed , no need for a SSF filter.
Let me think on it for the night and given you an answer tomorrow.
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/8/2009 18:53:51
You know the WD-40 trick sounds like a great trick. I'll have to remember that. When I was a young lad living in CT. and into dirt bikes we would use a product called LPS to displace moisture. I would think WD would be every bit as good or better. It seems the smaller the engine the more tempermental they are.
UPS just dropped all the wire, fuse block and battery wire mounts from KnuKnoceptz. I'm ready just need my car back :o)
swez on 01/8/2009 20:42:30
Get this, I emptied the fuel bowl and tank today and noted about 30% water by volume. That's a lot of water to extract. So much for good gas at the local petrol station.
So, I dropped the fuel bowl, replace the primer bulb and noted the main seal gasket seat the bowl/flange is out of shape and leaked like a sieve. Ahhh, that explains a few more things. (The float will not level properly in a water/fuel-oil mix) Hum, That means the fuel float will sag and not shut off fuel delivery when the bowel if full. (Now, it runs rich, overflows and water does not combust properly)
Yes, WD-40 is a good lubricant and also displaces water almost as well as Alcohol additives. It does burn during combustion, but low octane at best. Here, a good spray type Carb cleaner does the trick. There's enough octane to create good compression and minimal H2O as well. It's a great cleaner too... if you don't break into a rash with this VOC formula, Gumout spray or liquid is a reliable product.
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/9/2009 20:35:32
Rant on!
Well I stopped in to see my car today and to see when I could get it back. That was a mistake. If this guys goes any slower he'll be going backwards! In fact I think he did go backwards this past week. I should have just stayed away until Monday. If I hadn't given him so much money already I'd take my car back right now. 5 weeks and the door panels aren't even done!
OK, rant off!
swez on 01/9/2009 20:59:57
Oh boy, that 's not so good.
Did find a red/white '55' that was totally redone and asking $125,000.00 for it. His interior was done very well and took a long time he did say. Similar game plan as yours... LT1 Vette engine, nice toys under the hood and a nice custom exhaust system too.
Ya ever get one of senses that when we do our own work, it usually turns out right in time. But, place things in the hands of others and pay them well up front... 50/50 at best.
Hang in there Bruce, we're all stuck in neutral at various points in life and if we pass that test, we're better people for it later.
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/10/2009 20:59:29
I new the guy was slow and I did get a deadline from him before we made the deal. The biggest issue I have with him is the money he has of mine. I gave him more than enought to buy material. Then last Friday he said he wanted to make a draw for 1,600.00 I had a good talk with him and he told me he would have the front and rear door panels all done and most if not all of the head liner. When I walked in on Friday he had most of the two front panels in and that was it. I figured at this point his word is not worth much so I just walked out.
I apreciate your imput and have to agree I'll just hang in there. At this point what else can I do he's holding all the cards
swez on 01/11/2009 14:23:31
Yes, I can see why you are annoyed, but who knows what your sub-contractor is dealing with right now. He may be slow and somewhat a perfectionist as well. But that's not a bad thing for the job at hand. As long as the work is high quality, the pace is just an annoyance.
Have you ever been a contractor? The hardest parts of being one are the snags, setbacks and estimating time and material cost as we push along. After 3.5 years as a contractor on various jobs, I felt the frustrations on all points of the compass initially.
1. Suppliers were slow to get material needed on time
2. Trying a new project, the learning curve was longer than expected
3. The customer wanted more than I could deliver, (On time) as they kept adding to the project list
4. I was new at this phase of work and did not know how small details could really trip up a schedule, materials cost and I ended up eating a lot of profit margins to stay within budget
That's all part of the learning curve,
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/12/2009 16:34:20
Hiya Dave,.
yep I've been a general contractor since 1985 and understand completely with meeting deadlines for one reason or another and sometimes issues just back up into one big unavoidible problem.
I don't see any of the above mentioned being a issue with my car. day earlier he had me on a schedule for weeks end. Honestly it didn't look like he did anything on my car after that day other than cash my check he asked for.
I'm not being unreasonable with him If there is a problem talk to me about it and I can deal with it. Don't fill me with BS and then wonder whk I'm upset afterwords. Communication is the name of this game and emty promoises don't cut it. Going on 6 weeks now
swez on 01/12/2009 17:50:50
Yes Bruce, we do understand each other very well. We are both bottom line guys who shoot straight, even when the news is not as good as we had hoped for. As long as we know the delay factors and they seem reaonable, we adjust accordingly and can live with some reasonable delays.
Like you, don't try to BS me on the progress report and date of completion. Just give me your best estimate, keep me informed of delays and/or progress and that's good enough.
Hang in there bro,
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/12/2009 22:10:23
Well Dave some good news. I stopped in on my car today and I saw progress. Good progress. Not sure but we may at least be on the same page now :o)
swez on 01/13/2009 20:11:28
Hehe Bruce,
That's a good one and a little visit to help light a little fire under the contractor's tail is not unreasonable. Sounds like he got the meassage, shifted his priorities a bit in your favor and is making some strides to get the dang job done.
For now, get ready for your next set of upgrades. In the end, it will all be worth a few fits and restarts.
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/13/2009 21:24:51
Yep, all seems well at this point. What ya say I give you a shout when I get my car back and we go over a box design for my sub?
-Bruce
swez on 01/14/2009 01:42:31
Sounds like a plan. Shout me out when you are ready.
Dave
Tuned55 on 02/14/2009 00:48:43
Hello Dave
Hope all is well out your way.
Well just over two months and I have my car back. He did a real nice job on the interior but if he went any slower he'd be going backwards.
Now onto the sub box. What do you need from me before I can make a sub box? I'm more than ready {:o)
Bruce
swez on 02/14/2009 08:42:20
Hello Bruce,
Glad to hear you have your new baby at home and ready to go.
Just need to confirm a few things before we dive in.
Kicker 600.1 sub amp
Alpine Type R SWR 124***
Need confirmation on the exact subs model you have. The newer products in the Type R Series are all Dual Voice coils since 2004 or so.
SWR-1242D is the 4+4 DVC version
SWR-1222D is the 2+2 DVC version
SWR -124 does not seem like a real product or an older version, 4 ohm Single Voice Coil (If it was ever made???)
Can you please clairfy the subs you have now?
Dave
PS Toro snow thrower is fixed. The float ring had a pin hole leak in it and a leaking bowl gasket. I usually fix stuff like this, but farmed it out to a retiree that does this for side $ and has a heated garage. We had a pretty nasty cold snap going on, so working in sub freezing temps was not on my "A" list of things to do. Either way, it's fixed. CLAP
Tuned55 on 02/14/2009 12:41:51
OK, Looks like I have model SWR 1241 D
Good news on your Toro! It's nice to find the little problems in life. It's also good to find someone like you did to fix it. It's a win win situation.
swez on 02/14/2009 15:48:05
Good! that's an earlier model, but pretty much the same performance for your needs. Here's the manual for that product line:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500SWR1021.PDF
If you go sealed, the optimal sealed box is 0.85 ft^3 + sub displacement of 0.13 ft^3. So, your internal air space is targeted at 1.0 ft^3.
Use 3/4" MDF for all panels. Your external Height & Width will be 14.25" x 14.25" to clear the basket for front baffle mounting. The depth will be 12.0" and nets a 0.99 ft^3 box. (Pretty compact box huh?)
If you have any questions, just ask as there's no such thing as a dum question. (Unless you're a Politician or Political pundant) LOL
Use the Toro today and she started and ran like a champ. About 2 years ago, someone got frustrated with it and put it out for trash night. I scooped it up, cleaned the carb, filter and a new spark plug and she's been trouble free until now.
Like you say, do a little good for others and it always come back when we need a favor too. The golden rule huh?
Dave
Tuned55 on 02/14/2009 16:09:37
Dave, Your a life saver. I'll get after the box this comming week. One other question I have. I've been finishing up the console and have the deck in hand, it dosen't seem to have the capability of adding a MP3 player or say the audion from a small DVD player.
If you recall it's an Alpinr 9833. If I'm correct I'll want to change to a different HU
swez on 02/14/2009 19:30:53
Bruce,
The manual shows an input for Ai-Net access for CD changers and that seems to be the main AUX input. It's a special cable for specified Ai-Net compatible players.
There seems to be and alternate cable with RCA input connectors that you can use for I-pod and charges the I-pod too.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_127ICALPA/PAC-iPod-Adapter-for-Alpine.html?tp=120&tab=detailed_info
Man, was reading the manual for this model and it was way ahead of it's time for a 2006 model. (Loads of whistles and bells features)
Here's a copy of the manual: Most of the install details are on pages 39-41. The KCA-121B is the patch cable recommended for Ai-Net to outboard audio inputs. The Pac version is probably an aftermaket upgrade.
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500CDA9833.PDF
The programming and other goodies in this package are going to take lots of reading and maybe some yanking of the hair. If you're getting a little thin on top these days, go see your doctor and ask for some Xanax. That med does wonder to calm the choppers when frustrations run high. LOL It calms me down just swell on a bad day! GRIN
OK, there is an option here. Trick is, finding that patch cable.
Dave
PS You must think I am a magician or something? Hey Dave, can you pull a few more rabbits out of your magic bag? Sure... why not a few rabbits and maybe a steak dinner for 2 with all the trimming while I'm at it??? GRIN SMILE CLAP and LOL
Yes, it's been a loooong and loony day. Care to join me in a shot of Scotch? If not, I have yours too. hehe
Tuned55 on 02/14/2009 20:50:56
Well, looks like you did it again! That's just what I need. I'm not using a changer. I'll get one on order.
Thanks for the drink offer but I haven't had a drink in many moons. I suffer from migranes and alcohol just seems to set it off in a big way. Help yourself to mine (:o)
swez on 02/14/2009 21:05:46
Well, the drink offer was just an ice breaker of sorts. But I do hope the Pac-patch option will be just what the Doctor ordered.
You may want to call Crutch, explain the details and get confirmation that this is indeed a good fix. I think it will be, but before you proceed, get their inputs OK? If Crutch Tech advisors agree, it's a done deal. If not, ask their opinions and and see where that goes.
I'd feel better if others confirmed this option package and not be a lost pooch in the boonies. If they say YES, then take take that step. If they have other options, digg.
The offer on the Scotch Whiskey is more a joke. But you get my drift ".
Best regards as always,
Dave
Tuned55 on 03/4/2009 18:40:30
Hi Dave..... Don't give up on me. I've been busy with my car. Past couple days I've been in the trunk. I've got the sub box done and the sade panels for the recessed amps. I could still be 3-4 weeks out from powering up the unit due to other items I need to get done. I'll keep ya posted
Bruce
Oh, I took it into the rewind shop and my buddy siad my alt. is putting out 104 amps. Think that will be enough ?
swez on 03/4/2009 19:06:13
Welcome back Bruce!
Glad you got the interior finished and now working on your audio rig.
That ALT is probably the typical Delco CS-130 series. (100-105 A's @ full output) It won't be enough to power the 2 Kicker amps and the other basic systems in this vintage car.
It's likely that you will need a H.O. ALT that can deliver +200 Amperes The car needs at least 40A's alone. That leaves 160A's for your amplifiers and other add ons.
Just to be sure, this is the 454 CID engine right? I am very surprised that they did not use a Caddy ALT with more power. Fortunately, this should be easy to find and not break the bank.
Comments?
Dave
Tuned55 on 03/6/2009 15:19:50
No it's a Vette LS1 all alininum fuel injected. Do you have any good sorces for a HO alt?
Ly interior is not 100% done. The guy kidnapped my car for over 2 months and I just took it back. He has to redo the carpet as he cut it too short for the threshhold to cover the gap.
But the good news is Im ready to wire this up starting with the sub. It looks like a dual voice coil, What way is best for wiring?
Bruce
swez on 03/6/2009 19:53:20
These are the original SWR series subs and likely the 4+4 DVC's as well.
Since this Kicker amp is not rated for 1 ohm loads, but handles 500 watts RMS per sub, you're down to 1 sub. (a spare in the box)
Here's the wiring diagram for a net 2 ohms: Diagram #1
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp?submitted=true&woofer_qty=1&woofer_imp=4
Since you'll be using only 1 sub here, your sealed box dimensions will be a net internal volume of 0.85 cf + sub discplacement of 0.15 cf. (1.0 cf internally) That's not a large box, but the bass will be nice and tight and the sub power handling is best in this size enclosure.
You can go retangular or a wedge type box here. For this install, I would probably opt for a wedge design as it will look larger in such a huge trunk.
Example: H = 14.0" ; W = 22.0" ; D = 15.0"
How does that square with your minds-eye?
Swez
Tuned55 on 03/6/2009 20:00:05
I have the box done.and those are the specs I used. I'm pretty much just down to wireing. One other question is the amp signal wire from the HU. Should I take it from one amp anf just jump to the other?
I might just hear this unit run this weekend {:o)
swez on 03/6/2009 20:29:50
This box that is already made, is it dual 12's in there now? If yes, we'll have to shoot for a different wiring plan. (Net 4 ohms) Your wiring will look like this: Diagram Option #2
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp?submitted=true&woofer_qty=2&woofer_imp=4
If either one of your amps has a 2 channel RCA output, yes... you can just daisy-chain from one amp to the other. If the 600.4 does not have RCA outs, you can use Y splitter cables off the rear input RCA's to get the job done.
If your HU has a Sub Out RCA pair and menu settings to control output from the HU, just add a separate set of RCA lines so you can use these features. Yes, it's added work, but worth the effort.
Almost forgot, you asked about H.O. ALT's for this engine package. Yes, there are several out there to choose from. Some of the most popular I know about are: Some come in Chrome too.
http://www.db-starter-alternator.com
http://www.motorcityreman.com
Mean Green
Irragi
Ohio Generator
Stinger
Again, a 200A model should get the job done, but a few extra amperes would not hurt.
Dave
Tuned55 on 03/6/2009 22:22:33
Great info again Dave, Thanks!
I only used one 12 '' sub.
From my HU I ran three sets of RCA's (Streetwire) Front- Rear- & Sub. I also ran one blue 14 Ga. wire for amp signal. Then comming back from the trunk amp I ran speaker wires for front CDT's
I got all my wire, connectors, fuse block Battery terminals from KnuKnocepz. Nice Wire! I'll shot a pic your way when I'm done.
I guess I'm not sure on the amp power signal wire? The one that would turn the amps on and off with the HU
swez on 03/6/2009 23:50:01
That's called the REMote turn on trigger line. Most will supply 12.0 volts and 250-300 millamps at most to turn on your amps. If using more that 2 devices off that circuit, it's best to use a relay for more power on that circuit. In your case, extend the line from the HU to Amp #1 and run a jumper wire to Amp #2' REM. That should be AOK.
Yes, one SWR 12" sub is plenty for all but the extreme basshead. This Kicker amp will deliver + 600 watts RMS to a 2 ohm load and that's actually good for the sub. As long as the sub is pumping the cone well, the sub coils will stay cool and handle extra power. If it fails, you have a backup sub ready to go.
When you get past the initial install stage, the tweaking and fine tuning stages come next. I'll walk you through them as needed. Just give the speakers time to break in before testing their max limits. (10-12 hours of use is usually enough... 50 - 75% full power.
Swez
PS Yes, have used and specified Knu products to many here and find them well above average in performance, quality and a real bargain price too. Some of the hardware is a bit tricky, but managable. Glad you agree! CLAP
Tuned55 on 03/7/2009 11:09:31
Thanks once again!
Tuned55 on 03/7/2009 18:29:27
Well Dave you were right. One 12'' sub is more than enough! The system sounds real clean and hits hard. No nosie while driving. A little tuning in the near future and I should be done.
Just want to thank you again. This sytem and your help gave me more than I had hoped for.
Bruce
swez on 03/7/2009 23:56:41
Great news Bruce! I knew we'd make a good team... CLAP
You are most welcome and it's a pleasure watching/assisting a guy who stays the course, asks great questions and follows suggestions.
Give it week before you dial up the bass. Allow the sub some time to break in and lossen up and it'll get even deeper and smoother too.
Thumbs up and enjoy,
Dave
Tuned55 on 03/8/2009 19:00:41
Ok Will do {;o)
swez on 03/8/2009 21:15:36
My pleasure Bruce!
When you are ready to dial in things to find the sweet spots, just come back and we'll review your system and go from there.
Just pick a few music cuts you like best and know very well to start. If we get them right, then the last steps are looking for demanding music that shows any flaws that need to be fixed.
Dave
Tuned55 on 03/14/2009 21:11:12
Hi Dave.... I need help LOL
Man this HU is a long ways from my old 8 track :o) JK
I see things in it that are not familiar and don't see items like treble. I'm only getting a small signal from the tweeters. The front 6.5's are loud and clear but no real highs. My son has the same set of CDT's in his truck and sound so much better. My tweeters ar behind my headliner about 10~12'' from the A pillar.
Think we can dial this in online? I've been reading the manual but like I said it kind of new school to me.
Bruce
swez on 03/15/2009 02:55:33
We can try Bruce. I suspect you may have to reset your HPF's in the HU or use the amp filters only to overcome this one.
A few pics might be very helpful so I can see what you have in the front stage and where the tweets are installed now. Aiming them well is key, but the filter settings have to be correct too. (CDT's need HPF of 80 - 20 KHz to work properly. If the HPF is set wrong, they will sound weak and not up to par.
Also, changining the passive crossovers to a +3 dB setting should help bring the tweeters up to snuff. They are very efficient, but we have to find the sweet spot for them too.
You can either shoot me an e-mail @ swezdp@yahoo.com with pics attached or use photobucket.com to download pics.
Dave
PS If you want to chat on the phone and work out the details in short order, shoot me an e-mail as we swap phone numbers OK? Would like to chat via phone as we can cover a lot of ground in short order. In this case, it may be the best way to wrap up your project and be totally satisfied with the results. It's best to schedule a time since we are in different time zones. (You in Utah?, me in Michigan)
Tuned55 on 03/15/2009 16:13:18
Thanks Dave.
I think a land line would be best also. I'll drop you an email and arange agood time for both of us. It may be later in the week as My car is leaving once again to get some paint touch up done. I see that I can also do some downloading online at alpine.com to a CD and tune that way?
swez on 03/15/2009 22:20:16
Good idea... I find a lot of manuals off Crutchfield. Your HU may still be archived and can get the details from them. Yep, there we go:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500CDA9833.PDF
Another rabbit out of my "Magic Bag"... said Felix the Cat! I hope I have 9 lives too. Have used up 2-3 already, so I gotta watch my step huh? LOL
Happy reading,
Swez
Tuned55 on 06/16/2009 10:02:24
Swez did you get mt email ?
Tuned55 on 06/24/2009 14:11:55
Email sent
swez on 06/24/2009 17:26:42
E-mail received and my thoughts and prayers are with you and the entire family.
Swez
Replies (66)
swez on 01/1/2009 01:39:16
Well Tuned, you may be right but it's been a while and welcome back!
So, what do you have in mind on the whole project from here on in? Fill us in on the key details of your project and we'll pull ya through the plans.
Did you swap engines or stay pretty much stock? It seems this vintage had either the inline 6 or a small V-8 option back than. Some guys ditched that for a 350, 390 or LS2 Vette V-8's.
OK, spell out your ideas and let's see what we can come up with.
Swez
PS One concern... how much ALT power do you have in this car? The stock ones were only about 40-50A's. That will not power a large bass engine. (300 watts RMS; 35-40A's current tops)
Tuned55 on 01/1/2009 19:29:49
After thinking back I think it's been 3 years ago. You gave me some great buying advice. If you recall you asked if I would sponsor a needy family for the holidays. But like I said that was 3 maybe 4 years ago
Ok this is what I have
Alpine CDA-9833
Kicker 600.1
Kicker 600.4
CDT CL-61A
Rockford Fosgate P-1694
2-Alpine Type R SWR-124
16 ga. Knukonceptz wire for CDT and Fosgates
12 ga for subs
Streetwire for RCA
1/0 for power to to fuse block then 4 gauge to amps w/ 60 amp fuses
4 gauge for amp grounds
My battery is in the trunk so I was planning on grounding directly to the battery. My car is n the upostery shop for another 3-4 weeks but I need some imput for what I have so far,
placement of the CDT's, I woould like to put them up front in the kick panel but from what I have rear the A pillar would be best for the tweeters and mids up high in the door panel?
Will the Fosgates be compatible in the rear package tray. If so do they need to be in a sealed enclosure?
From what I have read I'm thinking a sealed box for the subs. My choice of music is rock. I'm after good clean sound.
Should the subs fire to the rear of the trunk?
What size enclosure would you recomend?
Ok I can take it....{:o) what should I change, the Fosgates?
A little about my 55. I built a Corvette C4 frame for it. It's an LS6 with a 6 speed. I think I have a link for it somewhere in my profile here.
I have given the ALT some thought and I would really like to know if I need more power. I believe it's a stock 60 amp unit.
Looking forward to all advice
Bruce
swez on 01/1/2009 21:03:18
Ahhh, it's coming back to me now Bruce and I want you to know the family we raised funds for was a huge success. (Think you had another handle back then?) We bought plenty of food, clothing for the whole family and toys/clothing for their handicapped son.
You should have seen the look on their faces when we pulled up to their humble little trailer to drop off the food & gifts. It was a very sobering event for Jen & I to see how poor these folks were. But in the end, we did the right thing and many thanks to the contributors that made it possible. We actually had enough left over to help another needy family in the process. How cool is that?
Okay, looking at your gear choices, all looks good except for the ALT/BAT package to power this rig. Fortunately, the vintage cars did not have all the electronics we see in modern cars. They did fine with a low wattage ALT. Now, things are very different.
Your amplifiers are going to need a larger ALT/BAT combo to work properly. (Think 150A's here unless you added some additional features to this 55 Chevy) That should not be a big problem with your Big Block Chevy. It won't be cheap, but what's another $300.00 after all you've done to restore this car?
The CDT's will sound nice in custom kicks if you have the room. Most glass their own or send that out to skilled fabricators to blend it all together. If you went with more traditional door mounts up front, the MB driver is best down low and the tweeter in the same vertical plane on the door panel, but not aimed at the driver/passenger. These are not the end-all, be-all Comps available today, but with proper staging and filtering, you'll have a nice SQL system in time.
The Fosgate 6x9's in the rear parcel shelf should help the lower MB sound in this car. (These are 3-way coaxials) Some fine tuning will help get you to a very satisfactory sound in time. If the bass is overly strong from the subs, you may need to enclose the x9's with sealed enclosures to prevent the subs from affecting thier overall performance.
As for the Alpine subs, these sound great in compact sealed enclosure. Each chamber in the 0.75 - 0.85 cf range, should give nice bass in a huge trunk like this car offers. As for orientation, subs facing back toward the bumber is a good starting point. But, feel free to experiment to get the best bass you can. (Moving the box around until you get it just right) I take it you have the earlier model 4-ohm, single coils subs? (Please confirm they are not the newer SWR-1242D's; 4+4 DVC's)
LS6 engine and a 6 speed tranny sounds like a winner. That's what, the 454 CID Aluminum block, 385 HP and used in Vetts, Cameros and Chevelle from the 70's? (Sweet) Oh yeah, had a old 72 Pontiac Grandville with the 454. This thing was heavy, but ran like rabbit with its tail on fire when you hit the gas pedal. That was back in athe days of real cheap petrol.
Questions/comments,
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/1/2009 23:30:46
Man that's cool we were able to help a needy family! Thanks for the update, Glad I was able to help out.
Thanks for all the imput. I'm glad to see I don't have to fill my trunk full of MDF! .75 - .85cf sound good to me. Seems like a small box for 12" subs? I'll dbl check the subs just to be sure on the specs. The only issue with the sub enclouser I have is the trunk will be finished like the inerior. I kind a have to get a layout so I can have the interior guy finish the trunk with the rest of the car. Will moving the subs around make a real noticable difference? If so I'll build the boxes and go through the process of doing it right. How many posistioin options are there? Facing rear, facing up, facing each other, or facing into the rear of the seat? I have ever seen them facing the frontwards with no enclosure at all.
I used FatMat through out the car and trunk floor.
The engine is a LS1 from a 98 Camaro LS6 updates. As far as DC power items this car it has power lock, window, seats, and electronic fuel injection.
Have a look at my car here http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/20241225
My wife and I are planning on driving this car from So.Utah to Pigeon Forge,TN in May.
Bruce
swez on 01/2/2009 00:53:03
Wow, amazing work there Bruce. This is a real masterpiece of time, love for old cars and attention to details. It looks like you even installed A/C into this build?
As for the sub enclosure, sealed and compact are just right for Alpine's SWR series. As for placement, rear firing is most common. Some guys have done tests with the sub snugged up near the rear seat back, firing into the rear seats with very good results. Adjusting the distance from the rear wall is the trick.
Upfiring is great in pickups and taller truck cabins, but in a trunk mounted sedan, NOPE! Some guys go a step further and cut out an air vent in the parcel shelf so that the punchy bass comes into the cabin. Think about that as an option as you wrap up the interior trim.
Like the custom Belair head covers and a neat color scheme as well. The new dash panel looks pretty neat too. The engine has so much poloished metal, probably need sunglasses to see it all? hehe
Have you ever heard of the "Woodward Dream Cruise"? Detroit does this every summer and people like yourself come from all over the USA to participate. They are mostly vintage and custom Street Rods and restored cars from the past. It seems to me, this event lasts all week and when folks are in town for this event, we some really sweet dream cars all over the area during the week. If you can make it for one of them, I'd like to meet you and the family and have you show me every jot and tiddle on this car.
Finally, please confirm the Alpine sub version you have now. They have brought out a whole new line of subs in the last few years and we want to make sure you have the right match for that Kicker amp you have now.
Swez
PS You were the largest single donation on the Christmas list on my side of the ledger. Jen was the #1 giver and we had a total of 15 contributors to this project. There was enough for the targeted family and some left over to help another family too. Yep, it was an amazing event and I will never forget it. Thanks for your support! CLAP It made a real differnce to all. Your gift was put to very good use. USFLAG
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/2/2009 01:36:06
Thanks for the kind words. I don't think i'll ever do another one like this again. I had to do it once and test my skills. I've done all the work myself except for the internal motor up grades and the interior. I feel with the help of this forum I can handle the sound also.
I'd love to do the Woodward Dream Cruise someday. It's on my list and if the economy gets back on it's feet it just may happen. Wife and I fell in love with the south several years ago and try to get back there once in a while. The 55 will be done soon so we are useing that for an excuse to attend a Classic Chevy show in May.
hey while I have you here....lol would you know why my remote power door lock want to lock on their own every once in a while? I don't recall the brand but I can sure look in my shop tomorrow. I know there is a feature that will lock them after 60 seconds or so but that feature is turned off. Any ideas?
newB on 01/2/2009 05:28:39
"placement of the CDT's, I woould like to put them up front in the kick panel but from what I have rear the A pillar would be best for the tweeters and mids up high in the door panel?"
Some swear by having the tweets and mids within a few inches of each other while others like the sound of the mids lower in the door but farther away from the ear. Getting them into the Kick will give them good staging and blend, where as putting the mids higher in the door near the tweets they will be a bit more harsh, loud, and more defined. (close your eyes... can you p picture where the speaker is in your head?) I say get your equipment wired up first, and play with various alignments by hand to see what your tastes prefer. Once you know what sounds best in your ride and to you, then work on glassing in the pods and getting them tweets into the A pillar!! There is no "wrong" for placement just what you enjoy or dislike, so experiment!
"Will the Fosgates be compatible in the rear package tray. If so do they need to be in a sealed enclosure?"
I'm assuming, looking at the number that it is the single 4ohm rockford 6x9 so correct me if i'm wrong. For the rear fill they can be placed into the rear deck/package tray firing towards the rear window. Your main staging and emphasis should be in the front, the back just gives a full feeling. You can purchase little 6x9 covers so the bass does not distort the mids from pressure from the trunk, but with a dual 10s/12s sealed/higher tuned vented you shouldn't have a problem.
"From what I have read I'm thinking a sealed box for the subs. My choice of music is rock. I'm after good clean sound."
Like mentioned earlier in my post- Music is all opinion and i would highly recommend playing with different boxes to find your own taste. Sealed is the classic, and will work fine for your application although if your not looking for the deep infrasonic tones a higher tuned ported box will pick up better upper bass and keep the kick drum hits crisp and clean- worth the time and effort to build one. Reason number 2 i would suggest starting with ported is because its nice to have "overhead". Volume that you don't need all the time, but can be safely reached when your feeling that itch GRIN
"Should the subs fire to the rear of the trunk?"
yes! to keep cancellation and phase issues to a minimum you want woofers towards the trunk, and if you chose to go ported shoot the ports on the same axis as woofers
"What size enclosure would you recomend?
Ported/Vented:
1cuft @40hz for 10s
1.5cuft @38hz for 12s
Sealed
.75-1cuft for 10s
1-1.5cuft for 12s
On a final note, if you consider picking up some high quality woofers look into companies like:
www.dcsoundlab.com
www.ficaraudio.com
The DC lvl 3 or Fi Q are perfect for your application and will out perform the Alpines on many levels.
-Drew
Tuned55 on 01/2/2009 12:25:03
This all looks like great info. I'm not afraid to build ported subs but where do I get the demsions and specs? Is it all about the cubic size or is a deeper and not wider encliuser better? What size and where should the port be located, anywhere in the front so it's headed the same direction as the sub? Is there a site to wouod show specs for what I would need to build?
Where would you rate the 12'' Alpines Type R I have now? I was under the impression they where pretty nice subs?
I think at this time I won't be able to throw much more money at this system. The Fi Q's look like an awesome sub but looks to be out of reach at the moment.
Bruce
swez on 01/2/2009 12:25:36
Thanks for the good inputs Drew. SMILE
I may be wrong, but think a guy who is doing all this $$$$ restoration work on a vintage car, is an older guy with a family. The main focus is a vintage show car with a balanced sound system and not a ground pounding bass machine to rattle the skull loose.
As for the door lock issues mentioned, I don't have a background in that kind of gear. Ttocs or CPLKittle are probably the most qualified guys here to help out on that one.
One could spend a lot of time researching your model version and find very little help. In this case, going right to the Mfg and getting tips from Tech Service, would be a better route. (If they are still in biz)
If you want to spend some time reading about general design and function testing, have gander over here:
http://www.the12volt.com/doorlocks/doorlocks.asp
Keep in touch as you get ready for your sub install. Still need the proper model # of the subs you have now.
Dave
swez on 01/2/2009 13:23:26
55,
We know that it's the old 80/20 rule here. 20% of the results are gear related. The 80% is more about the install techniques and fine tuning process we use later.
I don't see any glaring problems with the product list mentioned before, that cannot be managed after the install is completed.
For now, stay on the charted path we have discussed and we'll address any issues as they pop up in the process.
The Apline HU has some very nice tools and features to dial in your system after the install is completed. Yes, there are newer products out there to look at, but if you use what you have on hand, I do not see any real fatal flaws to chop your budget to pieces. (Except a stronger ALT to power the entire car as needed)
Stay the course for now,
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/2/2009 13:41:41
Yep Swez your correct on the old guy comment. I'm 52 and have 5 grand kids {:o). See I grew up with all the great rock and roll. This car is something I have always wanted to do and am lucky to be able to get r done. It's not gonna be a show car but a driver. Along with haveing this hot rod is a fine sound system. I don't really care what others think of what I have done. So as long as it sounds good to me and my wife is consantly telling me to "Turn it down" I'm happy.
I'll get you the sub info when I get home this evening. I had to open up the shop today and the guys want to work all day so I'm stuck here.
I know the compomemts I have are not the latest but they are all still new in the box. I jumped the gun when I bought them thinking this car would not have taken as long as it did. It was just flat out a LOT of work. At times I had to walk away from it for a month or two. I'm pretty stoked to be on the final road and building this system is going to be a blast.
I counldn't for the life of me remember where I met you Swez, then I did a "Swez" google search and BAM there you were...LOL
Thanks for everyones help. I thkni this system is going to be a real " TRIP" ( There;s that 70's era terminolgy"
I'm off to read the link you posted. THANK'S!
swez on 01/2/2009 16:42:41
Hehe, good story on the google search thing. Yeah, any can find me there and link back to CK.
I had a sense we were about the same age Bruce. Younger guys don't have the knowledge, $$$ and patince to restore a car like this. When you said 70's Rock... ding ding ding bell went off again. Then, I looked at your photo album shots and I presume that was your wife slabbing down some filler or shaping a panel? I looked at the rock on her finger and her facial features and thought... mid- 40's mom and a good sport on this hobby of yours. Interesting profile guesses huh? (Am I close?)
How was business down at the shop in 08? My twin brother Dale closed his books and said he had less opportunities in 08, but more profits to close the year a tad lower, but still in black ink.
I'll stop here for now and await your answer on the subs,
Dave
newB on 01/2/2009 18:31:44
i tried to keep in mind the age, music, and volume preference GRIN
all my expereince is that a 40hz tuning for a pair of 10s destroys all music but the gangsta tones that play +20db @25hz.
AND out performed my sealed box at kick drum hits and low bass guitar
GL with your build, car looks like a labor of love and came out great, really worth the time and effort!!
-Drew
Tuned55 on 01/2/2009 20:31:15
OK, Back to the subs. The box reads;
SWR-1241D
4ohm+4ohm
Type R
12 inch
High Performance
Dual Voice Coil
Subwoofer
1000W Peak
Are these the newer ones?
swez on 01/2/2009 22:56:27
That version is the first Alpine to go to Dual Voice Coils. (~3+ years ago) They have changed a few things since then, but this sub should still do ya proud.
The good news here, you only need one sub powered off the Kicker 600.1. A single SWR can handle it all. That means a very compact enclosure in the trunk and if you have 2 subs, one is now a spare. (This amp cannot run 1 ohm loads well) If you wired it for a pair at net 4 ohms, the power dropsto about 1/2 its output at 2 ohms.
See the connection?
Tuned55 on 01/2/2009 23:15:47
Dave... I'm afraid your last post is as clear as mud but in my defense I'm beat and it now feels like a Friday for the first time today (;ol
So, one 12" sub will do the rick or one is all my amp will handle? The last system I had in this car only had 1 10" MTX and it was OK at best.
I'm shutting down for the night.
I really appriciate all the help and imput on my system
Bruce
swez on 01/2/2009 23:29:07
Get some rest, clear the ol noggin and we'll take it up a notch over the weekend.
In a nutshell, one Alpine sub is sufficient for the project and gear on hand. If you wanted to use both, we have more noodling and expenses to consider.
FYI: The older MTX subs were pretty marginal at best. Some of their new gear is actually very good. But they are pricey too.
We can go into more detail after a good nights' rest OK?
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/5/2009 16:33:39
Hi Dave, just a nte to let you know I haven't left for the moon,. Life has me wrapped up at the moment. I'll be back soon
Bruce
Tuned55 on 01/6/2009 19:49:11
Woah Dave..... As John Force often says, " I think I need a pill" LOL
Ok while I have moment...... I mentioned to a few buddies about having a 600.1 amp and 2 -12'' subs and how you advised using one sub. They say " Why" ,"I say I dunno I'll ask Dave"
Whay Dave? {:ol
swez on 01/7/2009 01:41:58
Okay, took my chill pill... we can talk now.
How do we approach a techie type subject, w/o getting too techie?
The subs on hand are 4+4 DVC's. Depending how they are wired as a set, you get 1, 4 or 16 ohms as the load. (With me so far?)
This amp is not stated as 1 ohm stable. It delivers 600 RMS watts @ 2 ohms and 300 watts @ 4 ohms. (KX-600.1 series, circa 2004?)
This amp produces its most power at 2 ohms. If we use only 1 DVC sub, we get a perfect 2 ohm load match with both coils in parallel. (600 watts from amp) That's good traction through the drive train and maximum power to the rear wheels from the rear differential. (One happy pig and the clutch ain't missin a beat either)
If we go the dual sub route, the best you'll get is ~300 RMS watts from the amp and 150 watts to each sub in 4 ohm wiring configuration. This is like starting off the line in 3rd gear. (Not so hot as half the power is like a badly slipping clutch and poor power transfer to the rear wheels)
If the amp were 1 ohm stable, you could use both subs and get 300 watts to each sub. That's not a bad deal for the subs, as long as the amp does not go into protect mode.
Uhmmm, you have me over a barrel here Bruce. If this were my gear to test and play with, I'd try a controlled experiment to see how the amp responds to a 1 ohm load. (Both subs in full parallel) The KX-1200.1 is 1 ohm stable and I would be willing to test the KX-600.1 to see how it handles a 1 ohm load. (A Calculated risk taker here)
If you are a "calculated risk taker", I have a game plan for you to consider and would do it myself on a test bench first. However, if you are an ardent "risk avoider", use 1 sub and enjoy what you have w/o worry. You can go ported or sealed with this sub and have a backup in the event one fails.
Pick your options as you see fit. Just like tweaking an engine, tranny and rear end gear ratios for max performance when you want it, we can do similar tricks in car audio. (To a degree)
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/7/2009 11:54:13
Ok Dave I appreciate you putting this in terms I understand better. It's all about compatibility and one component enhancing the other. So being that I will want to install this system and be done with it, so to speak, I'm going to have you take a gander at what you think I'm after and go with that. Will I be happy with one efficant 12" sub or should I consider a different amp or subs. I really don't want to spend much more on this than I have already but I don't want to go back to do what I wish I had done in the first place. My plan is to recess the amps on either side of the trunk. If I were to go back to change out to a different amp it could be a major process. I'd like to have you say I'm fine with one sub.... ( hmmm I think you have already said that in previous post....) Just double checking, measure twice cut once :o)
THANKS!!
Bruce
swez on 01/7/2009 13:38:55
Bruce,
In this case, 1 strong sub is going to get the job done. This amp and sub combo are not cheap toys. They are both serious, get down to biz and make some change in your cup holder dance.
You'll be pleased after the install and the sub breaks in. ;~)
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/7/2009 18:32:31
Cool, then one sub it is. Lets discuss the enclosure next. I could have my car back in a week or so while he dose the seats so I'm thinking about building the enclosure.
swez on 01/7/2009 19:36:44
In this case, you have 2 main options:
1. A Compact sealed box (Small, good overall performer and easy to make)
2. A larger port tuned box (Larger, better deep bass and a few more dB's bass at tuning frequency)
Both are good and each has Pros & Cons. Much of this choice depends on the music you prefer best. Tell us more about that and we'll lead you to the best option.
Swez
PS I could use a little help from you too Bruce. It's about small, 2-cycle gas engines for snow machines. For a while, the carb was running way to rich on this small Toro machine I picked up for nothing. It ran, but very rich and there are no external air or fuel nozzles to adjust.
A little while later, it went very lean and would not stay running, even with some choke added. Well, today I went out and bought/replaced the primer bulb. It was a tight fit and had to use hot water to make the bulb pliable to fit over the primer flange. (Success)
So, I take it back out to the garage to install and note the carburator is now leaking fuel like crazy again. (Float/needle seat are stuck in empty fuel bowl mode again and flooding over) What the heck? Do I need to pull the fuel bowl clean the needle and seat and reset the float tang so it runs properly?
It's a good machine when it runs properly. But I suspect the owner before I got it, did not empty the old fuel and or use STABILIZER to prevent varnish and gunk in the summer season? What-cha think on the matter as noted?
Tuned55 on 01/7/2009 23:30:00
Dave it sounds like a small Honda generator I have. Was really hard to start at times and other times it leaked from a stuck float needle. I removed the carb and did a cleaning and it helped but still not right. I removed the carb again dismantled it and soaked it in carb cleaning solution. Used the very small wire cleaning set I have for my paint spray guns and really cleaned every where possible. Blew it all out with air bought a new needle and it works like new now. It sounds like you have a similar problem with varnish. Running rich would be too much fuel, of coarse, from a needle not properly controling the amount of fuel in the bowl and the lean situation I would guess would be built up varnish chocking the fuel supply thus creating a lean situation. The thing is with this crap we all know as todays gasoline dose not last long before it goes bad. The smaller amount the fast it will jel. I always try to turn of the fuel suppy and let the motor starve if I know it's going to be parked for a while. I do like the Stable product. I have to use that on my RV generator or it's a major ordeal to keep up the maintnace. All and all I'd have to suspect a dirty carb. The more you run it the more likely more of the varnish will flake off and cause problems.
One other problem you may encounter sith a small 2 stroke is the gas will evapoate and leave an oil residue. Again it's best to run them out of fuel if you can.
As far as my choice of music I have to say rock. Pink Floyd, ZZ Top, Metalica, Nickle Back, Clapton, Zepplin early Aerosmith,etc. I don't care add any more bass that what was origanly intended by the artist. A full spectrum of clean sound. I have the room fo a large box if needed and all the tools nessasary to build what ever you recomend.
Let me know how you make out with your Toro
Bruce
swez on 01/8/2009 00:12:35
Yep, I've tinkered with a many of these before and found them to be very tempermental with varnish deposits. A good clean/flush helped last year and I run them til empty at the end of the season.
I also shoot a little WD-40 into the carb to minimize water distillation and prevent contamination too. In most cases, WD-40 does a very good job to coat internal parts during the off season. In this case, I may have to drop the fuel bowl and inspect/replace the needle jet assy. Will let ya know as I see progress.
As for your sub box, am inclined to try a sealed box first. Sealed boxes are the easiest to build, handle more power and and sound more accurate in the overall.
Ported enclosures are good for boosting low-end bass, but more work in the process. But the amp used, must have SSF filtering too. If sealed , no need for a SSF filter.
Let me think on it for the night and given you an answer tomorrow.
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/8/2009 18:53:51
You know the WD-40 trick sounds like a great trick. I'll have to remember that. When I was a young lad living in CT. and into dirt bikes we would use a product called LPS to displace moisture. I would think WD would be every bit as good or better. It seems the smaller the engine the more tempermental they are.
UPS just dropped all the wire, fuse block and battery wire mounts from KnuKnoceptz. I'm ready just need my car back :o)
swez on 01/8/2009 20:42:30
Get this, I emptied the fuel bowl and tank today and noted about 30% water by volume. That's a lot of water to extract. So much for good gas at the local petrol station.
So, I dropped the fuel bowl, replace the primer bulb and noted the main seal gasket seat the bowl/flange is out of shape and leaked like a sieve. Ahhh, that explains a few more things. (The float will not level properly in a water/fuel-oil mix) Hum, That means the fuel float will sag and not shut off fuel delivery when the bowel if full. (Now, it runs rich, overflows and water does not combust properly)
Yes, WD-40 is a good lubricant and also displaces water almost as well as Alcohol additives. It does burn during combustion, but low octane at best. Here, a good spray type Carb cleaner does the trick. There's enough octane to create good compression and minimal H2O as well. It's a great cleaner too... if you don't break into a rash with this VOC formula, Gumout spray or liquid is a reliable product.
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/9/2009 20:35:32
Rant on!
Well I stopped in to see my car today and to see when I could get it back. That was a mistake. If this guys goes any slower he'll be going backwards! In fact I think he did go backwards this past week. I should have just stayed away until Monday. If I hadn't given him so much money already I'd take my car back right now. 5 weeks and the door panels aren't even done!
OK, rant off!
swez on 01/9/2009 20:59:57
Oh boy, that 's not so good.
Did find a red/white '55' that was totally redone and asking $125,000.00 for it. His interior was done very well and took a long time he did say. Similar game plan as yours... LT1 Vette engine, nice toys under the hood and a nice custom exhaust system too.
Ya ever get one of senses that when we do our own work, it usually turns out right in time. But, place things in the hands of others and pay them well up front... 50/50 at best.
Hang in there Bruce, we're all stuck in neutral at various points in life and if we pass that test, we're better people for it later.
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/10/2009 20:59:29
I new the guy was slow and I did get a deadline from him before we made the deal. The biggest issue I have with him is the money he has of mine. I gave him more than enought to buy material. Then last Friday he said he wanted to make a draw for 1,600.00 I had a good talk with him and he told me he would have the front and rear door panels all done and most if not all of the head liner. When I walked in on Friday he had most of the two front panels in and that was it. I figured at this point his word is not worth much so I just walked out.
I apreciate your imput and have to agree I'll just hang in there. At this point what else can I do he's holding all the cards
swez on 01/11/2009 14:23:31
Yes, I can see why you are annoyed, but who knows what your sub-contractor is dealing with right now. He may be slow and somewhat a perfectionist as well. But that's not a bad thing for the job at hand. As long as the work is high quality, the pace is just an annoyance.
Have you ever been a contractor? The hardest parts of being one are the snags, setbacks and estimating time and material cost as we push along. After 3.5 years as a contractor on various jobs, I felt the frustrations on all points of the compass initially.
1. Suppliers were slow to get material needed on time
2. Trying a new project, the learning curve was longer than expected
3. The customer wanted more than I could deliver, (On time) as they kept adding to the project list
4. I was new at this phase of work and did not know how small details could really trip up a schedule, materials cost and I ended up eating a lot of profit margins to stay within budget
That's all part of the learning curve,
Swez
Tuned55 on 01/12/2009 16:34:20
Hiya Dave,.
yep I've been a general contractor since 1985 and understand completely with meeting deadlines for one reason or another and sometimes issues just back up into one big unavoidible problem.
I don't see any of the above mentioned being a issue with my car. day earlier he had me on a schedule for weeks end. Honestly it didn't look like he did anything on my car after that day other than cash my check he asked for.
I'm not being unreasonable with him If there is a problem talk to me about it and I can deal with it. Don't fill me with BS and then wonder whk I'm upset afterwords. Communication is the name of this game and emty promoises don't cut it. Going on 6 weeks now
swez on 01/12/2009 17:50:50
Yes Bruce, we do understand each other very well. We are both bottom line guys who shoot straight, even when the news is not as good as we had hoped for. As long as we know the delay factors and they seem reaonable, we adjust accordingly and can live with some reasonable delays.
Like you, don't try to BS me on the progress report and date of completion. Just give me your best estimate, keep me informed of delays and/or progress and that's good enough.
Hang in there bro,
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/12/2009 22:10:23
Well Dave some good news. I stopped in on my car today and I saw progress. Good progress. Not sure but we may at least be on the same page now :o)
swez on 01/13/2009 20:11:28
Hehe Bruce,
That's a good one and a little visit to help light a little fire under the contractor's tail is not unreasonable. Sounds like he got the meassage, shifted his priorities a bit in your favor and is making some strides to get the dang job done.
For now, get ready for your next set of upgrades. In the end, it will all be worth a few fits and restarts.
Dave
Tuned55 on 01/13/2009 21:24:51
Yep, all seems well at this point. What ya say I give you a shout when I get my car back and we go over a box design for my sub?
-Bruce
swez on 01/14/2009 01:42:31
Sounds like a plan. Shout me out when you are ready.
Dave
Tuned55 on 02/14/2009 00:48:43
Hello Dave
Hope all is well out your way.
Well just over two months and I have my car back. He did a real nice job on the interior but if he went any slower he'd be going backwards.
Now onto the sub box. What do you need from me before I can make a sub box? I'm more than ready {:o)
Bruce
swez on 02/14/2009 08:42:20
Hello Bruce,
Glad to hear you have your new baby at home and ready to go.
Just need to confirm a few things before we dive in.
Kicker 600.1 sub amp
Alpine Type R SWR 124***
Need confirmation on the exact subs model you have. The newer products in the Type R Series are all Dual Voice coils since 2004 or so.
SWR-1242D is the 4+4 DVC version
SWR-1222D is the 2+2 DVC version
SWR -124 does not seem like a real product or an older version, 4 ohm Single Voice Coil (If it was ever made???)
Can you please clairfy the subs you have now?
Dave
PS Toro snow thrower is fixed. The float ring had a pin hole leak in it and a leaking bowl gasket. I usually fix stuff like this, but farmed it out to a retiree that does this for side $ and has a heated garage. We had a pretty nasty cold snap going on, so working in sub freezing temps was not on my "A" list of things to do. Either way, it's fixed. CLAP
Tuned55 on 02/14/2009 12:41:51
OK, Looks like I have model SWR 1241 D
Good news on your Toro! It's nice to find the little problems in life. It's also good to find someone like you did to fix it. It's a win win situation.
swez on 02/14/2009 15:48:05
Good! that's an earlier model, but pretty much the same performance for your needs. Here's the manual for that product line:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500SWR1021.PDF
If you go sealed, the optimal sealed box is 0.85 ft^3 + sub displacement of 0.13 ft^3. So, your internal air space is targeted at 1.0 ft^3.
Use 3/4" MDF for all panels. Your external Height & Width will be 14.25" x 14.25" to clear the basket for front baffle mounting. The depth will be 12.0" and nets a 0.99 ft^3 box. (Pretty compact box huh?)
If you have any questions, just ask as there's no such thing as a dum question. (Unless you're a Politician or Political pundant) LOL
Use the Toro today and she started and ran like a champ. About 2 years ago, someone got frustrated with it and put it out for trash night. I scooped it up, cleaned the carb, filter and a new spark plug and she's been trouble free until now.
Like you say, do a little good for others and it always come back when we need a favor too. The golden rule huh?
Dave
Tuned55 on 02/14/2009 16:09:37
Dave, Your a life saver. I'll get after the box this comming week. One other question I have. I've been finishing up the console and have the deck in hand, it dosen't seem to have the capability of adding a MP3 player or say the audion from a small DVD player.
If you recall it's an Alpinr 9833. If I'm correct I'll want to change to a different HU
swez on 02/14/2009 19:30:53
Bruce,
The manual shows an input for Ai-Net access for CD changers and that seems to be the main AUX input. It's a special cable for specified Ai-Net compatible players.
There seems to be and alternate cable with RCA input connectors that you can use for I-pod and charges the I-pod too.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_127ICALPA/PAC-iPod-Adapter-for-Alpine.html?tp=120&tab=detailed_info
Man, was reading the manual for this model and it was way ahead of it's time for a 2006 model. (Loads of whistles and bells features)
Here's a copy of the manual: Most of the install details are on pages 39-41. The KCA-121B is the patch cable recommended for Ai-Net to outboard audio inputs. The Pac version is probably an aftermaket upgrade.
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500CDA9833.PDF
The programming and other goodies in this package are going to take lots of reading and maybe some yanking of the hair. If you're getting a little thin on top these days, go see your doctor and ask for some Xanax. That med does wonder to calm the choppers when frustrations run high. LOL It calms me down just swell on a bad day! GRIN
OK, there is an option here. Trick is, finding that patch cable.
Dave
PS You must think I am a magician or something? Hey Dave, can you pull a few more rabbits out of your magic bag? Sure... why not a few rabbits and maybe a steak dinner for 2 with all the trimming while I'm at it??? GRIN SMILE CLAP and LOL
Yes, it's been a loooong and loony day. Care to join me in a shot of Scotch? If not, I have yours too. hehe
Tuned55 on 02/14/2009 20:50:56
Well, looks like you did it again! That's just what I need. I'm not using a changer. I'll get one on order.
Thanks for the drink offer but I haven't had a drink in many moons. I suffer from migranes and alcohol just seems to set it off in a big way. Help yourself to mine (:o)
swez on 02/14/2009 21:05:46
Well, the drink offer was just an ice breaker of sorts. But I do hope the Pac-patch option will be just what the Doctor ordered.
You may want to call Crutch, explain the details and get confirmation that this is indeed a good fix. I think it will be, but before you proceed, get their inputs OK? If Crutch Tech advisors agree, it's a done deal. If not, ask their opinions and and see where that goes.
I'd feel better if others confirmed this option package and not be a lost pooch in the boonies. If they say YES, then take take that step. If they have other options, digg.
The offer on the Scotch Whiskey is more a joke. But you get my drift ".
Best regards as always,
Dave
Tuned55 on 03/4/2009 18:40:30
Hi Dave..... Don't give up on me. I've been busy with my car. Past couple days I've been in the trunk. I've got the sub box done and the sade panels for the recessed amps. I could still be 3-4 weeks out from powering up the unit due to other items I need to get done. I'll keep ya posted
Bruce
Oh, I took it into the rewind shop and my buddy siad my alt. is putting out 104 amps. Think that will be enough ?
swez on 03/4/2009 19:06:13
Welcome back Bruce!
Glad you got the interior finished and now working on your audio rig.
That ALT is probably the typical Delco CS-130 series. (100-105 A's @ full output) It won't be enough to power the 2 Kicker amps and the other basic systems in this vintage car.
It's likely that you will need a H.O. ALT that can deliver +200 Amperes The car needs at least 40A's alone. That leaves 160A's for your amplifiers and other add ons.
Just to be sure, this is the 454 CID engine right? I am very surprised that they did not use a Caddy ALT with more power. Fortunately, this should be easy to find and not break the bank.
Comments?
Dave
Tuned55 on 03/6/2009 15:19:50
No it's a Vette LS1 all alininum fuel injected. Do you have any good sorces for a HO alt?
Ly interior is not 100% done. The guy kidnapped my car for over 2 months and I just took it back. He has to redo the carpet as he cut it too short for the threshhold to cover the gap.
But the good news is Im ready to wire this up starting with the sub. It looks like a dual voice coil, What way is best for wiring?
Bruce
swez on 03/6/2009 19:53:20
These are the original SWR series subs and likely the 4+4 DVC's as well.
Since this Kicker amp is not rated for 1 ohm loads, but handles 500 watts RMS per sub, you're down to 1 sub. (a spare in the box)
Here's the wiring diagram for a net 2 ohms: Diagram #1
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp?submitted=true&woofer_qty=1&woofer_imp=4
Since you'll be using only 1 sub here, your sealed box dimensions will be a net internal volume of 0.85 cf + sub discplacement of 0.15 cf. (1.0 cf internally) That's not a large box, but the bass will be nice and tight and the sub power handling is best in this size enclosure.
You can go retangular or a wedge type box here. For this install, I would probably opt for a wedge design as it will look larger in such a huge trunk.
Example: H = 14.0" ; W = 22.0" ; D = 15.0"
How does that square with your minds-eye?
Swez
Tuned55 on 03/6/2009 20:00:05
I have the box done.and those are the specs I used. I'm pretty much just down to wireing. One other question is the amp signal wire from the HU. Should I take it from one amp anf just jump to the other?
I might just hear this unit run this weekend {:o)
swez on 03/6/2009 20:29:50
This box that is already made, is it dual 12's in there now? If yes, we'll have to shoot for a different wiring plan. (Net 4 ohms) Your wiring will look like this: Diagram Option #2
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp?submitted=true&woofer_qty=2&woofer_imp=4
If either one of your amps has a 2 channel RCA output, yes... you can just daisy-chain from one amp to the other. If the 600.4 does not have RCA outs, you can use Y splitter cables off the rear input RCA's to get the job done.
If your HU has a Sub Out RCA pair and menu settings to control output from the HU, just add a separate set of RCA lines so you can use these features. Yes, it's added work, but worth the effort.
Almost forgot, you asked about H.O. ALT's for this engine package. Yes, there are several out there to choose from. Some of the most popular I know about are: Some come in Chrome too.
http://www.db-starter-alternator.com
http://www.motorcityreman.com
Mean Green
Irragi
Ohio Generator
Stinger
Again, a 200A model should get the job done, but a few extra amperes would not hurt.
Dave
Tuned55 on 03/6/2009 22:22:33
Great info again Dave, Thanks!
I only used one 12 '' sub.
From my HU I ran three sets of RCA's (Streetwire) Front- Rear- & Sub. I also ran one blue 14 Ga. wire for amp signal. Then comming back from the trunk amp I ran speaker wires for front CDT's
I got all my wire, connectors, fuse block Battery terminals from KnuKnocepz. Nice Wire! I'll shot a pic your way when I'm done.
I guess I'm not sure on the amp power signal wire? The one that would turn the amps on and off with the HU
swez on 03/6/2009 23:50:01
That's called the REMote turn on trigger line. Most will supply 12.0 volts and 250-300 millamps at most to turn on your amps. If using more that 2 devices off that circuit, it's best to use a relay for more power on that circuit. In your case, extend the line from the HU to Amp #1 and run a jumper wire to Amp #2' REM. That should be AOK.
Yes, one SWR 12" sub is plenty for all but the extreme basshead. This Kicker amp will deliver + 600 watts RMS to a 2 ohm load and that's actually good for the sub. As long as the sub is pumping the cone well, the sub coils will stay cool and handle extra power. If it fails, you have a backup sub ready to go.
When you get past the initial install stage, the tweaking and fine tuning stages come next. I'll walk you through them as needed. Just give the speakers time to break in before testing their max limits. (10-12 hours of use is usually enough... 50 - 75% full power.
Swez
PS Yes, have used and specified Knu products to many here and find them well above average in performance, quality and a real bargain price too. Some of the hardware is a bit tricky, but managable. Glad you agree! CLAP
Tuned55 on 03/7/2009 11:09:31
Thanks once again!
Tuned55 on 03/7/2009 18:29:27
Well Dave you were right. One 12'' sub is more than enough! The system sounds real clean and hits hard. No nosie while driving. A little tuning in the near future and I should be done.
Just want to thank you again. This sytem and your help gave me more than I had hoped for.
Bruce
swez on 03/7/2009 23:56:41
Great news Bruce! I knew we'd make a good team... CLAP
You are most welcome and it's a pleasure watching/assisting a guy who stays the course, asks great questions and follows suggestions.
Give it week before you dial up the bass. Allow the sub some time to break in and lossen up and it'll get even deeper and smoother too.
Thumbs up and enjoy,
Dave
Tuned55 on 03/8/2009 19:00:41
Ok Will do {;o)
swez on 03/8/2009 21:15:36
My pleasure Bruce!
When you are ready to dial in things to find the sweet spots, just come back and we'll review your system and go from there.
Just pick a few music cuts you like best and know very well to start. If we get them right, then the last steps are looking for demanding music that shows any flaws that need to be fixed.
Dave
Tuned55 on 03/14/2009 21:11:12
Hi Dave.... I need help LOL
Man this HU is a long ways from my old 8 track :o) JK
I see things in it that are not familiar and don't see items like treble. I'm only getting a small signal from the tweeters. The front 6.5's are loud and clear but no real highs. My son has the same set of CDT's in his truck and sound so much better. My tweeters ar behind my headliner about 10~12'' from the A pillar.
Think we can dial this in online? I've been reading the manual but like I said it kind of new school to me.
Bruce
swez on 03/15/2009 02:55:33
We can try Bruce. I suspect you may have to reset your HPF's in the HU or use the amp filters only to overcome this one.
A few pics might be very helpful so I can see what you have in the front stage and where the tweets are installed now. Aiming them well is key, but the filter settings have to be correct too. (CDT's need HPF of 80 - 20 KHz to work properly. If the HPF is set wrong, they will sound weak and not up to par.
Also, changining the passive crossovers to a +3 dB setting should help bring the tweeters up to snuff. They are very efficient, but we have to find the sweet spot for them too.
You can either shoot me an e-mail @ swezdp@yahoo.com with pics attached or use photobucket.com to download pics.
Dave
PS If you want to chat on the phone and work out the details in short order, shoot me an e-mail as we swap phone numbers OK? Would like to chat via phone as we can cover a lot of ground in short order. In this case, it may be the best way to wrap up your project and be totally satisfied with the results. It's best to schedule a time since we are in different time zones. (You in Utah?, me in Michigan)
Tuned55 on 03/15/2009 16:13:18
Thanks Dave.
I think a land line would be best also. I'll drop you an email and arange agood time for both of us. It may be later in the week as My car is leaving once again to get some paint touch up done. I see that I can also do some downloading online at alpine.com to a CD and tune that way?
swez on 03/15/2009 22:20:16
Good idea... I find a lot of manuals off Crutchfield. Your HU may still be archived and can get the details from them. Yep, there we go:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500CDA9833.PDF
Another rabbit out of my "Magic Bag"... said Felix the Cat! I hope I have 9 lives too. Have used up 2-3 already, so I gotta watch my step huh? LOL
Happy reading,
Swez
Tuned55 on 06/16/2009 10:02:24
Swez did you get mt email ?
Tuned55 on 06/24/2009 14:11:55
Email sent
swez on 06/24/2009 17:26:42
E-mail received and my thoughts and prayers are with you and the entire family.
Swez
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
