Hi, this is my first time posting here. I've read lots of info on installing a sound system and I think I'm just about ready to do it myself.
The equipment I'll be using:
-Alpine Type R components in the front connected to Alpine MRP-F250 (40 RMS x 4) but will bridge at 100 RMS x 2 according to crutchfield.
-Kenwood 12" subwoofer (800w max/ 400w rated) paired with Sony Xplod amp (340w Single channel).
1. This may not be the ideal amp/speaker combo, but will it suffice?
2. If the Components have crossovers, Do i adjust the crossovers on the amp?
3. I think I should put the 4ch amp under my driver seat and the 2ch amp for the sub in the hatch with the sub. Is this correct?
4. Should I use a distributor block? If so, where should I put it?
5. How do I choose gauge size and is there a quality/fair priced wiring kit or vendor?
6. I have a cheap panasonic aftermarket headunit that has one rear preamp at 2.5v .. How would I hook all my equipment up to this?
Sorry for so many questions. The help is greatly appreciated! :)
Replies (13)
ttocs on 12/10/2008 18:00:03
1) should not sound too bad. You might not win a competition with it but it is better then the first stereo I had....
2) The cross overs for the componants may have on adjustment but it is common that they do not. You will still need to do some adjustments on the amp but we will get across that bridge when you get there.
3) You can put the stuff where ever you think is best, that is the fun of the hobby.
4) A dist block may help if your amps were next to each other but if they are seperate the way you are planning I would consider running a wire for each amp.
5) The best place that I have found wire kits lately as much as I hate to admit it is wally world.
6) If the amps do not have a circiut to allow the signal to go through the amp(it will have an rca laveled output) then you will need to get some rca wire splitters.
What kind of car?
socalsx on 12/10/2008 21:30:45
Wow thanks for all your help. That really clears things up for me. Its a 2002 civic hatchback, so wiring to the trunk/hatch shouldn't be hard at all.
My alpine 4ch amp has 4 RCA inputs and 2 RCA "pre-amp output". Will this allow the other amp and sub to function? I'm really looking forward to tackling this project. I'm not picky on sound, just looking for a nice little upgrade for my hatch and happened to find some great deals so I picked it all up.
kirchatndftbl on 12/10/2008 22:15:27
run the RCA's from the HU to the 4 ch amp and then run RCA's from the 4ch out put to the 2ch amp for the sub
swez on 12/10/2008 23:35:59
Yes, The MRP-F250 has 2 RCA, (Fill range) outputs to feed your sub amp. This makes it very easy to add a sub amp and do as you mentioned.
Bridging the Alpine F250 down to a strong 2-channel amp is a good option here. It has enough reserve RMS power for most any front Comps used in the mix.Ttocs is pointing you in the right direction already.
The only questions I have are the model number of your Sony amp and Kenwood sub.
Swez
cplkittle on 12/10/2008 23:50:28
Crossovers are supposed to split the signal between the tweeter and midrange giving them the frequencies they can each handle. I ALWAYS use the HPF (High pass filter) on my amp to prevent the crossover or the midrange from getting frequencies that are low enough to damage them. My diamond components will reproduce 50Hz, but I don't want that low of a signal getting to them, so I set the HPF at ~60Hz to prevent anything below that from getting to them.
You can split the RCA signal from your head unit, but if it is split 3 ways (front, rear, and sub) you are reducing the output voltage to around .8 volts per channel. I recommend a new head unit. If you get a head unit that has 3 RCA outputs, you have much better control over the sound distribution depending on the model (sub gain controls, front and rear independent crossover and gain settings, phase adjustments, etc..) Plus, by giving each channel 2.5 - 3 volts, you greatly reduce the amount of work the amplifiers have to do to produce clean sound at higher volumes.
socalsx on 12/11/2008 03:09:31
Ok wiring the two amps makes sense. The head unit will be upgraded in about a month or so.. I plan on getting the pioneer DEH-P7000BT.
The Sony Xplod amp is XM-1252GTR and the kenwood sub is KFC-W3011.
I did this on a very tight budget. everything I bought was used except the sub which i found for $38 shipped. It goes for $100 on crutchfield and had a lot of great reviews.
ttocs on 12/11/2008 09:08:49
I have my hex componants playing full range but I am also throwing a boatload of clean power to them to keep them clean.
swez on 12/11/2008 12:59:43
Looked up your sub & amp combo and they are a good match. This sub will probably sound best sealed in a 1.0-1.25 cf box. (2 channel amp, bridged to MONO and a SVC, 4 ohm woofer) Use the LPF setting of 80 Hz.
The Alpine type R Comps and the bridged F250 are a good match too. Crutch says you can use 6.5-6.75" Midbass drivers in the front doors and a HP crossover setting of 80 Hz is fine here too.
As for power wiring for each amp, am recommending #4 gage wire from the BAT to inline fuse, (100A) to a Distribution block that accepts #4 input and splits to a pair of #8 lines. (1 line to each amp) The max power draw you should expect, is just under 90 Amperes at full power. That will indeed tax your electrical system when the bass is thumping hard. Here, buy enough #4 wire to do the Big 3 upgrade.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g3481
This will get you started in the right direction as you make plans for the install and parts list. If you have enough space under each seat, consider mounting an amp under each seat. That will keep your power, RCA's and ground wiring very short, inexpensive and easy to install and hide wires.
You may have to remove the front seats for ease of wiring, but make sure the amps fit and make clear reference marks for the mounting screws on each amp. Once the seats are out, you'll have a good view under the carpet to move any wires that may be there now. (1" squares of masking tape and a Sharpie pen will do nice)
OK, will stop for now, let you digest the details and see what other comments come the rest of the team.
Swez
socalsx on 12/11/2008 17:09:02
Thanks Swez, I'll take your recommendation on using a distribution block and wire the amps under the seats. I found a tsunami dual amp wiring kit that comes with:
17 Ft. 4 Ga. Blue power cable
4 Ft. 4 Ga. Silver ground cable
8 Ft. 8 Ga. Blue power cable
8 Ft. 8 Ga. Silver power cable
16 Ft. 18 Ga. Blue remote turn-on wire
16 Ft. 18 Ga. Black ground wire
4 Ga. In-line ANL fuseholder with 100 amp ANL fuse
(1) 2 position AGU distribution block (fuses not included) / (1) 4 ga. input, (2) 8 ga. output
I was planning on taking out the front seats to make as much working room as possible.
swez on 12/12/2008 04:36:43
That will work!
How old is your present battery? Am guessing it's the original factory one? (~6 years old?) If yes, factor a new one into your buy list for later.
Depending on how hard you drive the amps, it's gonna die sooner or later. The fact you live in a mild climate, does extend battery life. But, with the added load of the new audio gear, they will tax the factory battery in a matter of months depending how loud/long you play your system.
As for the correct AGU D-block fuse values, your Alpine needs a 30A fuse. The Sony needs a 60 A fuse. Buy a spare for each and keep them handy. It's a good idea to have a spare 100 A ANL for your main line fuse holder too. Try to mount the D-block so you can replace fuses w/o removing a seat.
FYI: When running your power and audio lines, run the power cable and Rem on one side of the carpet rails. The RCA's and speaker cables should be run on the opposite rail to prevent noise problems.
Swez
PS Do you understand the "Big 3" wiring steps and why this is important?
socalsx on 12/14/2008 22:12:01
Well, I'm the third owner of the car so i couldn't say how old the battery is. I've been reading the "big 3" upgrade. It seems a bit daunting. As I understand, you're basically adding this larger gauge wire to each of the "3" connections. In the alternator to positive, I have to add a fuse bridge? bit confused there. already planned to run the rca and power cables opposite to each other. Now I just need the dual amp kit (most likely wal-mart) and get my last finals out of the way this week and have at it. Thanks for the help guys :)
ttocs on 12/14/2008 23:50:17
you are correct, and you are correct. Take my mustang for example. The stock power wires that go between the alternator and the battery, and the batt and ground are a rather thin 8 awg wich is more then enough for the stock electrical. Now if I were to run 0 awg to my amps the system would still be choked at the factory wires. by increasing the size of these you increase your cars ability to move current.
You do need to fuse any power wire with in 12 inches of the battery so you do need to add a fuse between the alt - battery to protect if it should ground out.
swez on 12/15/2008 00:02:19
It's reads like a mess, but the pictures and correct hardware will make the job easy and under 2 hours time. The proper crimp connectors make the job easy with the proper tools.
In most cases, one can get by on two wires.
1. ALT output post to + post on Bat.
2. Engine block bolt to tapped - Bat wiring post of grounding block near the fender well.
An inline fuse is nice, but may not be required to get the desired results as you will already have an inline fuse to battery for your amps. Just follow the exsisting wiring paths and realize that most of the current will flow through the larger diameter wires anyway. (Path of least resistance priciple here)
On large current hogging systems, the inline fuse is a good idea. It protects the ALT and Regulator more than anything. Exploding battery? Not likely if it's in good shape and the charging system is in good shape.
Comments?
Swez
PS Good luck on your finals this week!
The equipment I'll be using:
-Alpine Type R components in the front connected to Alpine MRP-F250 (40 RMS x 4) but will bridge at 100 RMS x 2 according to crutchfield.
-Kenwood 12" subwoofer (800w max/ 400w rated) paired with Sony Xplod amp (340w Single channel).
1. This may not be the ideal amp/speaker combo, but will it suffice?
2. If the Components have crossovers, Do i adjust the crossovers on the amp?
3. I think I should put the 4ch amp under my driver seat and the 2ch amp for the sub in the hatch with the sub. Is this correct?
4. Should I use a distributor block? If so, where should I put it?
5. How do I choose gauge size and is there a quality/fair priced wiring kit or vendor?
6. I have a cheap panasonic aftermarket headunit that has one rear preamp at 2.5v .. How would I hook all my equipment up to this?
Sorry for so many questions. The help is greatly appreciated! :)
Replies (13)
ttocs on 12/10/2008 18:00:03
1) should not sound too bad. You might not win a competition with it but it is better then the first stereo I had....
2) The cross overs for the componants may have on adjustment but it is common that they do not. You will still need to do some adjustments on the amp but we will get across that bridge when you get there.
3) You can put the stuff where ever you think is best, that is the fun of the hobby.
4) A dist block may help if your amps were next to each other but if they are seperate the way you are planning I would consider running a wire for each amp.
5) The best place that I have found wire kits lately as much as I hate to admit it is wally world.
6) If the amps do not have a circiut to allow the signal to go through the amp(it will have an rca laveled output) then you will need to get some rca wire splitters.
What kind of car?
socalsx on 12/10/2008 21:30:45
Wow thanks for all your help. That really clears things up for me. Its a 2002 civic hatchback, so wiring to the trunk/hatch shouldn't be hard at all.
My alpine 4ch amp has 4 RCA inputs and 2 RCA "pre-amp output". Will this allow the other amp and sub to function? I'm really looking forward to tackling this project. I'm not picky on sound, just looking for a nice little upgrade for my hatch and happened to find some great deals so I picked it all up.
kirchatndftbl on 12/10/2008 22:15:27
run the RCA's from the HU to the 4 ch amp and then run RCA's from the 4ch out put to the 2ch amp for the sub
swez on 12/10/2008 23:35:59
Yes, The MRP-F250 has 2 RCA, (Fill range) outputs to feed your sub amp. This makes it very easy to add a sub amp and do as you mentioned.
Bridging the Alpine F250 down to a strong 2-channel amp is a good option here. It has enough reserve RMS power for most any front Comps used in the mix.Ttocs is pointing you in the right direction already.
The only questions I have are the model number of your Sony amp and Kenwood sub.
Swez
cplkittle on 12/10/2008 23:50:28
Crossovers are supposed to split the signal between the tweeter and midrange giving them the frequencies they can each handle. I ALWAYS use the HPF (High pass filter) on my amp to prevent the crossover or the midrange from getting frequencies that are low enough to damage them. My diamond components will reproduce 50Hz, but I don't want that low of a signal getting to them, so I set the HPF at ~60Hz to prevent anything below that from getting to them.
You can split the RCA signal from your head unit, but if it is split 3 ways (front, rear, and sub) you are reducing the output voltage to around .8 volts per channel. I recommend a new head unit. If you get a head unit that has 3 RCA outputs, you have much better control over the sound distribution depending on the model (sub gain controls, front and rear independent crossover and gain settings, phase adjustments, etc..) Plus, by giving each channel 2.5 - 3 volts, you greatly reduce the amount of work the amplifiers have to do to produce clean sound at higher volumes.
socalsx on 12/11/2008 03:09:31
Ok wiring the two amps makes sense. The head unit will be upgraded in about a month or so.. I plan on getting the pioneer DEH-P7000BT.
The Sony Xplod amp is XM-1252GTR and the kenwood sub is KFC-W3011.
I did this on a very tight budget. everything I bought was used except the sub which i found for $38 shipped. It goes for $100 on crutchfield and had a lot of great reviews.
ttocs on 12/11/2008 09:08:49
I have my hex componants playing full range but I am also throwing a boatload of clean power to them to keep them clean.
swez on 12/11/2008 12:59:43
Looked up your sub & amp combo and they are a good match. This sub will probably sound best sealed in a 1.0-1.25 cf box. (2 channel amp, bridged to MONO and a SVC, 4 ohm woofer) Use the LPF setting of 80 Hz.
The Alpine type R Comps and the bridged F250 are a good match too. Crutch says you can use 6.5-6.75" Midbass drivers in the front doors and a HP crossover setting of 80 Hz is fine here too.
As for power wiring for each amp, am recommending #4 gage wire from the BAT to inline fuse, (100A) to a Distribution block that accepts #4 input and splits to a pair of #8 lines. (1 line to each amp) The max power draw you should expect, is just under 90 Amperes at full power. That will indeed tax your electrical system when the bass is thumping hard. Here, buy enough #4 wire to do the Big 3 upgrade.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g3481
This will get you started in the right direction as you make plans for the install and parts list. If you have enough space under each seat, consider mounting an amp under each seat. That will keep your power, RCA's and ground wiring very short, inexpensive and easy to install and hide wires.
You may have to remove the front seats for ease of wiring, but make sure the amps fit and make clear reference marks for the mounting screws on each amp. Once the seats are out, you'll have a good view under the carpet to move any wires that may be there now. (1" squares of masking tape and a Sharpie pen will do nice)
OK, will stop for now, let you digest the details and see what other comments come the rest of the team.
Swez
socalsx on 12/11/2008 17:09:02
Thanks Swez, I'll take your recommendation on using a distribution block and wire the amps under the seats. I found a tsunami dual amp wiring kit that comes with:
17 Ft. 4 Ga. Blue power cable
4 Ft. 4 Ga. Silver ground cable
8 Ft. 8 Ga. Blue power cable
8 Ft. 8 Ga. Silver power cable
16 Ft. 18 Ga. Blue remote turn-on wire
16 Ft. 18 Ga. Black ground wire
4 Ga. In-line ANL fuseholder with 100 amp ANL fuse
(1) 2 position AGU distribution block (fuses not included) / (1) 4 ga. input, (2) 8 ga. output
I was planning on taking out the front seats to make as much working room as possible.
swez on 12/12/2008 04:36:43
That will work!
How old is your present battery? Am guessing it's the original factory one? (~6 years old?) If yes, factor a new one into your buy list for later.
Depending on how hard you drive the amps, it's gonna die sooner or later. The fact you live in a mild climate, does extend battery life. But, with the added load of the new audio gear, they will tax the factory battery in a matter of months depending how loud/long you play your system.
As for the correct AGU D-block fuse values, your Alpine needs a 30A fuse. The Sony needs a 60 A fuse. Buy a spare for each and keep them handy. It's a good idea to have a spare 100 A ANL for your main line fuse holder too. Try to mount the D-block so you can replace fuses w/o removing a seat.
FYI: When running your power and audio lines, run the power cable and Rem on one side of the carpet rails. The RCA's and speaker cables should be run on the opposite rail to prevent noise problems.
Swez
PS Do you understand the "Big 3" wiring steps and why this is important?
socalsx on 12/14/2008 22:12:01
Well, I'm the third owner of the car so i couldn't say how old the battery is. I've been reading the "big 3" upgrade. It seems a bit daunting. As I understand, you're basically adding this larger gauge wire to each of the "3" connections. In the alternator to positive, I have to add a fuse bridge? bit confused there. already planned to run the rca and power cables opposite to each other. Now I just need the dual amp kit (most likely wal-mart) and get my last finals out of the way this week and have at it. Thanks for the help guys :)
ttocs on 12/14/2008 23:50:17
you are correct, and you are correct. Take my mustang for example. The stock power wires that go between the alternator and the battery, and the batt and ground are a rather thin 8 awg wich is more then enough for the stock electrical. Now if I were to run 0 awg to my amps the system would still be choked at the factory wires. by increasing the size of these you increase your cars ability to move current.
You do need to fuse any power wire with in 12 inches of the battery so you do need to add a fuse between the alt - battery to protect if it should ground out.
swez on 12/15/2008 00:02:19
It's reads like a mess, but the pictures and correct hardware will make the job easy and under 2 hours time. The proper crimp connectors make the job easy with the proper tools.
In most cases, one can get by on two wires.
1. ALT output post to + post on Bat.
2. Engine block bolt to tapped - Bat wiring post of grounding block near the fender well.
An inline fuse is nice, but may not be required to get the desired results as you will already have an inline fuse to battery for your amps. Just follow the exsisting wiring paths and realize that most of the current will flow through the larger diameter wires anyway. (Path of least resistance priciple here)
On large current hogging systems, the inline fuse is a good idea. It protects the ALT and Regulator more than anything. Exploding battery? Not likely if it's in good shape and the charging system is in good shape.
Comments?
Swez
PS Good luck on your finals this week!
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