Replies (18)
ttocs on 11/7/2008 15:31:57
I am resurecting my rangers install with my limited edition octane amp. I am going to be putting a single 10"(possibly diamond audio D6) with about .75 cubic feet and I am torn now between firing it down into the floor or back into the extended cab? I think I could make either work, which do you think would sound better?
swez on 11/7/2008 16:14:14
I think "down and back" will give very good results as you are capturing more cabin gain factor this way. If you go sealed as planned, expect tight bass and some added bump from the system as is.
The trick is a solid sub that can go low and still remain tight and accurate. We often pick up 8-12 dB in "cabin gain" or "transfer function" in such trucks. Make it work for you.
Swez
PS As you know well... installation and design are 80-90% of the outcome. Keep us posted as you go OK?
ttocs on 11/7/2008 18:00:57
after some searching for the right deal I think I have settled on a diamond audio m610D4. With the dual 4 ohm I can bridge the sub section of the amp at 2 ohm mono to get 425 wrms according to the birth sheet on the amp. I also found a gently used set of hex 5.25s from the same guy shipped to me for $200. I really wanted 6.5s but for that price I will just slap the tweeter on the baffle and be done with it.
Ok, so down firing it is......... That is an awful perty lookin sub to never see it, maybe I can put a plexi window in some how to let it be seen. How far from the ground should the sub be? Should I leave the sides open to let it vent under the seats or should I direct it towards the back? what angle are yo thinking of it firing down/back? The sub is supposed to be ok in as little as .3 ft so I should have enough room to sacrifice. I have built plenty of boxes but not many down firing, and never built one into a consol.
ttocs on 11/8/2008 12:48:40
where is vic the boxbuilding expert?
Victor on 11/8/2008 17:59:31
Hey Scott..
was traveling, just reached home a couple of hours back...
could you give me pics of the location where you wanna install this sub..
it is a pretty solid sub.... lets do justice to it...
are you ok with fiberglassing ? cause if its into the console, a frp enclosure makes more sense then wooden cubes.....
.3 cu.ft wooden enclosure..... damn....! ... its going to be practically impossible for this sub to be put in...
sub dimensions ... 10.3 dia and 5.6 mounting depth ... if you simply use those numbers to build an enclosure..
10.3 x 10.3 x 5.6 = 0.34 cu.ft .... are you packing this sub for shipping, or actually wanting it to produce music ???
anything from 0.75 cu.ft to 1 cu.ft sealed would be real good for this sub powered with 400wrms...
and frp definitely makes more sense in terms of flexibility of form and shape ...
comments... ??
Victor...
ttocs on 11/8/2008 18:47:02
Have a good trip? Where did ya go(as long as you don't have to kill me after)?
I will take some measurements and pics tomorrow morning. I am putting it in a ford explorer consol that I switched into my ranger. It has a large storage area to accomodate the cd changer of the time as well as ventalation and controls for rear passengers. I am going to cut the bottom/back out of it and then mold the box into that portion. I want to get it as close to the .75 to allow for the best bottom end excursion my only concern with down firing is that giving the sub a few inches between it and the floor, and the depth being over 5 inches as you mentioned will make for a tall box. If I can't get the space I need down firing then I will settle with the back firing but I am currently aiming for down firing.
I am sure there will be fiberglass sections in this box but I think I can do 80% of it out of wood. I am also considering to try and make some part of it from plexi to allow the motor structure to be seen.
pack it for shipping, thats funny.....
Victor on 11/8/2008 18:58:09
when under space constrains and tight situations, i'd prefer using multiple drivers of smaller form and lower power ratings, than a single powerful driver...
but now that we have such a nice sub at hand , lets do something to fit it right....
with very little space in the down firing situation, the sub will tend to sound muddy at high volumes, cause air wont be able to move freely and a lot of it will reflect and interfere/modulate/cancel the sound waves emerging from the sub... you would atleast want a 4" clearance between the sub and the floor...
and if the location is a bit tricky and gets into a pseudo - bandpass like configuration, you would notice SPL bumps at certain freq and you may also have a quick roll-off at certain frequencies, altering quite a bit of recorded content in the actual reproduction...
a series of pics would really help here...
Victor...
Had gone to a nearby city called 'Rajkot'... was there for dad's official work, as he cant move around a lot due to infection at the hernia repair rt. inguinal site... got really tired dealing with these govt. officials of insurance companies and banks, who really wanna stick to nonsense rules and show no flexibility to get more business...
ttocs on 11/9/2008 02:36:05
ah, I was hoping is was an indian new year or something and you would have some stories.
nnnnnnnnnnnnK. The equipment should be shipped tommorow or the next, I have taken some measurement and some pics so this project is officially started... now darnit how do I post pics on here.........
ttocs on 11/9/2008 02:54:08
ok seriously I don't see how to go advanced and post pics, didn't we add that option?........
at the bottom of here:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2081149/4
The first pic shows the consol itself. The 2nd pic shows the height wich is the only hard number that we cannot move. I want to stop the height at 8.25" so that I can screw the support for the top of the consol into the top of the box(both front and back) so that the consol will be extra sturdy. My dog is only 15 lbs but my room mate is a 250 man that was never a balarina. I have already cringed a few times as he has put all of his weight on his left arm on the consol to get something out of his pocket. I could see him crushing it like soda can and then looking at me like "WHAT YA DO?" in tommy boy.
The 3rd pic is of the width of the top. I am not afraid to gain a couple of inches on the 7" width to gain a little bit of space. I will just make a gentle curve from the top of the box to the top of the consol to fill the space.
The last pic is of the length. If we extend this a few inches it will go back a little further into the passenger area and I really don't care if we take a few inches away as it has been years since I had to put somebody back there.
With these measurements it is confirmed that space is at a premuim and that down firing is probably not a possability. I will use 5/8" mdf maybe 1/2" and use a layer of glass to make it a little stiffer and prevent flexing but none of the pieces will be all that large to worry about flexing.
I ran some numbers using the dimensions of 8.25" x 18" x 9" and using 5/8" came up with a box of only .4 before displacement. I would like to be the other side of .5 if I could and could possibly use a little more space under the cup holders, and maybe go another inch back....
Victor on 11/9/2008 04:42:17
IDEAI have an idea.....IDEA
how about installing the sub at the rear of that consol... such that it fires inside the consol .. a sealed enclosure with reverse loading of the sub....
8.25 x 16 x 7 = 0.534 cuft.. line it internally with a couple of layers of frp and it would come upto 0.5 cu.ft..
how does that sound ???
all you will have to work out is ..
cut the consol from the rear, mend it with frp , so that its dimension comes sufficient enough to hold the 10.3" diameter sub .... and seal the top so that the consol becomes air tight...
with this mod, the internal volume shall increase a tad bit.. enough to give that sub a 0.6 cu.ft to 0.7 cu.ft enclosure....
the only couple of con's i see is an exposed sub magnet facing the rear....and that consol is nothing more but just a sealed enclosure.. you would'nt be using it for storing things anymore...
what ya say ???
essentially it will be a back firing sub, you can do a 15 - 45 degree upwards slant for the sub if you desire....
ttocs on 11/9/2008 09:39:54
I have considered mounting it backwards to maximize the airspace. I also realized today that I am trying to mount a 10" sub on a 9" wide board and while I like to think I am good, I ain't that good(or bad).
After looking over it I can spread the consol ot to 10" so that I can accomodate the rear firing design. I might need to move the seats out just a hair but I do not think that will be too bad. I can auger out the mounting holes for the seat and move them 1/2-3/4" to allow for a little more room in the middle. I also realized that the length of 16 puts the back of the box ahead of the seats. I can stretch that number out to around 20" with out looking too tacky. Again making my calculations for the internal airspace of a a box 8.25 x 20 x 10 using 5/8 thick wood nets me .67 cubic feet before displacement. I think that would be enough for a resonable box. I think with a good box with a good sub and plenty of power as well as the amps onboard basscube and I think it should be enough bass for a small truck.
swez on 11/9/2008 11:43:34
Run your numbers again with 1/2" MDF and see what internals you can get. Since all the panels are pretty modest. 1/2" MDF might be a reasonabledoable option here.
Am not a big fan of inverse sub mounting for obvious reasons, but if you don't use the rear seats for peeps or cargo, why not?
The other option that some use is an under the rear seat sealed box. Some PU's need a rear seat hardware lift modification to make things fits, but that's not big thing either.
Look things over carefully, (you're forte) before commiting to the final design.
Swez
ttocs on 11/9/2008 13:02:16
I have no issues with mounting it backwards except that it will be hangin out for everyone to see. I prefer for my installs to be more stealth aspect just for the first layer of security.
I am considering 1/2" as well. I will need to form the bottom with glass to mold to the bottom snugly and I will probaby put a quick layer over the wood to help it out. As you mentioned none of the pieces will be too large and I would not expect a single 10 to do that much buy ya never know....
My rear seats are jump style that fold from the side of the truck as this was prior to the 3rd, 4th door option. This is the reason I do not like putting people back there as all they do is wine and cry, are we there yet????????? The back of the truck has been more for storage as recently I have been using it to shuttle some of my rc airplane to the field.
Victor on 11/9/2008 17:09:52
check this rough plan..
http://www.box.net/shared/z7lh16ivex#scott_consol
you can install the sub in a regular fashion too, with the magnet inside the enclosure, but I chose to suggest the reverse loading due to space constrains, to get some more internal volume for the sub to perform better.
ttocs on 11/10/2008 02:32:04
I had considered fiberglassing a ring on the back to have it shaped and mounted in a similar fashon. I have been going over the desing in my head and a little bit on paper and I think I can build the box from wood in a fairly traditional square fashon and only glass the floor of the box to ensure a snug fit as well as the top to mold it into the existing consol. I will keep 4-5" on the top under the lid of the consol to be able to store stuff, I gave up on the plexi idea but I am going to mount the fuse holder/dist block towards the front of the enclosure. There was a section in the consol made to hold tissues that I am going to utilize for fuses as well as for the tuning knobs for the bass cube.
I wish I remembered how to use acad to draw the design for you, or that you could read my chicken scratchings on paper to show you. From what I see I should be able to get .66 cu ft AFER displacement now which should allow for a good low end sound.
Now is just finding time for this. I am waiting for my power window kit to arrive today so that I can replace the drivers side that gave out after 10 yrs. I will slap it in if I get it early enough in the day. My next problem is that I have an old friend and his wife I have never met staying with me in a couple of weeks and I already need to clean up for them, let alone start another project. When I work I am like a tazmanian devil with the mess I leave. I will clean it up when I am done but since I am working on these projects when I have time sometimes the trail lays around longer then I like. I think I can make the time to start it and pull the consol and glass the floor. Once it has cured it will not take too long to make the rest of the wood pieces and then it is just waiting for the glue to dry.
ttocs on 11/12/2008 16:30:00
The glass for the bottom is curing in the truck over night. I will start the wood portion of the box tomorrow and that will be more fun then I thought. After taking the consol out and making a few measurments I will have to sqeeze the box between the seatbelts and the rails it slides on, as well as between the seats. The wood portion will take some work to get it in there and will certanly be the most challenging box I have built yet but that is kinda the fun.
Victor on 11/12/2008 17:21:53
with such situations... try not to use spans of wood surface, instead use 1/2" x 1/2" of wooden strips to build a frame work, wrap it with fleece and glass it..... will be much more easier and get you the right curves and the fit....
are you making an entirely new consol with a sub fitting ? or are you modifying the existing consol ???
ttocs on 11/13/2008 09:42:53
I am modifing the existing consol(that I took out of an explorer, there are pics of it on the page I linked to. There is no turning back now. I trimmed the glass on the floor to the size I needed and cut the first few pieces of wood before the sun was on my work area(too hot!). After those were cut and mounted I cut the bottom of the consol out where the box will be mounted. I had to make it a little thinner then I liked to fit between the seatbelts and I will need to flare the back to have a 10 x 10 area to mount the sub but I already have that figured out. I will have to remember to take some pics before I start as I have been too busy with this to stop and take pics. This is a puzzle piece where I cut one piece, from that I can measure what I need for the other and move onto it, one at a time.....
I think I have managed to keep the integrity of the consol by utilizing the metal supports inside of it to mount to the enclosure. I am not going to dare my roomie to stand on it but it should hold up.
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