I have a Rockford Fosgate Punch 600a5 and for the sub channel I've been using 2x RFZ2410s (100w RMS, SVC) wired in parallel to get a 2 ohm load and the amp puts out 200w RMS at 2 ohms. After about a year and three months, one completely went out and the other is messed up (distorted output at all volume levels). My question is, should the total RMS of all subwoofers be equal to the amps output or can you put as many as you want on the sub channel just as long as the subs are matched with the amp and you don't drop the ohms too low? The Punch Zs were in a sealed box that, I just found out, was made as a ported box for one 10 inch Punch HX but then when I got the Punch Zs my dad just cut a second 10in hole where the port was and put them in the box, instead of building a new box and making sure it was the right size. The box is approximately 1743.136 cubic inches or 1.0087592 cubic feet(24.4in x 7.6in x 9.4in) which fits nicely in the trunk of my 97 Camaro, I could easily make the box bigger if needed. Recommended volume is .75 cubic feet sealed for one RFZ2410, could that be why they went out (too small of a box for two)? On box size, for two subs should I just double the recommended volume or is there some formula for box volume when you have multiple subs in one box?
I've got $200. I've had my eye on either 2x RFZ3410s (2003 Punch Z, 150w RMS, SVC) or 2x RFP3410s (2002 Punch HE, 200w RMS, SVC). Ultimate Electronics has the 2x RFZ3410s for $100 and I've found the 2x RFP3410s for about $150 on e-bay and crutchfield.com. Are those good prices? Should I stick with 2x 100w RMS, SVC, 4 ohm subs?
Replies (4)
Swez on 09/9/2003 12:24:45
Check your sub amp channel first! If you wired them 2 ohms on a mono sub channel that can take two ohms..., may have clipped the subs too much with a small amp channel?
You may be looking at an amp and subs here... Test the sub channel for clean output with a known good sub.
oinally, 1.0 cf for a pair of 10's is generally too small if you want some deep bass. More like 1.5 - 2.0 cf for the pair sealed is more like it.
Swez
PS What is RMS output of that sub channel and what is the lowest phm load that channel can manage?
FosgateCamaro on 09/9/2003 16:06:59
Thanks, I'll test the sub channel as soon as I can. But you didn't answer my question, should the total RMS of all subwoofers on the channel be equal to the amps output or can you put as many as you want on the sub channel just as long as the subs RMS is the same as the amps and you don't drop the ohms too low?
Quoted directly from the spec sheet for my amp:
RMS continuous power per channel, both channels driven into a 2ohm load from 20 to 20,000 Hz, with less than 0.1% Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) 100 Watts x 4 + 200 Watts x 1
Here's a link to my amp's manual. Mine's the Punch 600 5 Channel.
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/library/1999/3_Amplifiers/MAN2370B_PunchMultich_MAN.pdf
compvr15s on 09/10/2003 00:01:58
if im correct the amp will split the power equally through out the subs, so if your amp is 200 rms and you have 2 100w rms subs your good to go, but its always better to over power than to under power. i used to have a 4 channel mtx amp runnin 2 channels briged to a kicker l7 solo baric, its like 750 watts rms sub and the amp was only puttin out like 150 to the sub if i was lucky, sounded fine at low lvls but distroted horrible.
Swez on 09/10/2003 06:13:04
QUOTE: I've got $200. I've had my eye on either 2x RFZ3410s (2003 Punch Z, 150w RMS, SVC) or 2x RFP3410s (2002 Punch HE, 200w RMS, SVC). Ultimate Electronics has the 2x RFZ3410s for $100 and I've found the 2x RFP3410s for about $150 on e-bay and crutchfield.com. Are those good prices? Should I stick with 2x 100w RMS, SVC, 4 ohm subs?
Depends on how much power you "ultimately" wish to feed into your subs and how much bass you want. There is not much difference in SPL between 200 VS 300 watts. (~ 1.5 dB is all) So it really comes down to price and what your amp will deliver. (power wise) I'll look at that .pdf file for details.
Also, if each sub is the same ohmic value, the amp will split its power 50/50 % to each sub. Ie: Both subs are same... 200 watts from amp... each sub will get 100 watts each.
OK, from the spec sheet off the .pdf file, it looks like this amp will deliver 100 x 4 watts RMS @ 2 ohms per channel and the sub channel will do 200 watts RMS @ 2 ohms. Not a lot of sub power here, compared to what you get from the other 4 channels in 2 ohm/ch. wiring configuration.
My best guess, the subs fried because the sub amp may have been clipping very badly to reach a decent SPL level here. When an amp starts to clip, distortion is not easily heard unless you get out of the car and listen from a short distance away.
When clipping become severe, the amp puts out large voltage spikes and maybe some DC voltage. That will destroy a speaker in no time. The sub amp section may have damaged as well. That's where a quick test with a known good sub will help identify same.
Also, how did the subs fail? Mechanical separation of voice coil leads... damaged spider to cone joint separation... subs seized up or fried voice coils? The way each sub, failed has a reason for that failure. Know what failed, tells us why it failed.
You may wish to consider using only the 4 channels on this amp and adding a separate sub amp here. How much of an amp you use is determined by how much SPL you want from the subs. A 300-500 watt RMS sub amp will net very good bass SPL/SQ and less clipping of the bass signal, if you use a larger amp. Choose you subs according to the amp power and ohms load the amp can take.
May I suggest that you look at a Class D Mono amp here? They draw less current, have good power and generally cost less than 2 channel amps. Have a look at these 4 amps as possible choices.
1. http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/1385
RF MONO amp, 500 RMS @ 2 ohms
2. http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/148
JBL MONO amp, 300 RMS @ 1 or 2 ohms
3. http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/186
JBL MONO amp, 600 RMS @ 1 or 2 ohms
4. http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/us_acoustics.html
USX-600D, 375 RMS @ 2 ohms
USX-800D, 600 RMS @ 2 ohms
Once you choose the amp you want, then finding subs for the power rating of the amp wil be easy to do next.
RF is a good product and well known brand... but you will pay top dollar for that name plate in amps and subs. There are so many choices out there that meet or exceed RF performance, but well under the prices RF has for equal or better gear. Have a look and see what I mean. Then come back with your amp choice, and we can look at subs that will mate well to the amp you choose.
I know we can get you into a better amp/sub set for less money than RF products and all amps mentioned are very much favored by many guys I have helped in the past. I own an older JBL sub amp: DA-1002(300 RMS @ 4 ohms) and have not had any problems with amp or subs in 3 + years of use. Very reliable, can take a beating and come back for more and I bought it refurbed for $100.00.
I use a dual 10" sealed enclosure and get low 130's dB of bass and this amp draws less than 35 amps of current as well.
Comments?
Swez
I've got $200. I've had my eye on either 2x RFZ3410s (2003 Punch Z, 150w RMS, SVC) or 2x RFP3410s (2002 Punch HE, 200w RMS, SVC). Ultimate Electronics has the 2x RFZ3410s for $100 and I've found the 2x RFP3410s for about $150 on e-bay and crutchfield.com. Are those good prices? Should I stick with 2x 100w RMS, SVC, 4 ohm subs?
Replies (4)
Swez on 09/9/2003 12:24:45
Check your sub amp channel first! If you wired them 2 ohms on a mono sub channel that can take two ohms..., may have clipped the subs too much with a small amp channel?
You may be looking at an amp and subs here... Test the sub channel for clean output with a known good sub.
oinally, 1.0 cf for a pair of 10's is generally too small if you want some deep bass. More like 1.5 - 2.0 cf for the pair sealed is more like it.
Swez
PS What is RMS output of that sub channel and what is the lowest phm load that channel can manage?
FosgateCamaro on 09/9/2003 16:06:59
Thanks, I'll test the sub channel as soon as I can. But you didn't answer my question, should the total RMS of all subwoofers on the channel be equal to the amps output or can you put as many as you want on the sub channel just as long as the subs RMS is the same as the amps and you don't drop the ohms too low?
Quoted directly from the spec sheet for my amp:
RMS continuous power per channel, both channels driven into a 2ohm load from 20 to 20,000 Hz, with less than 0.1% Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) 100 Watts x 4 + 200 Watts x 1
Here's a link to my amp's manual. Mine's the Punch 600 5 Channel.
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/library/1999/3_Amplifiers/MAN2370B_PunchMultich_MAN.pdf
compvr15s on 09/10/2003 00:01:58
if im correct the amp will split the power equally through out the subs, so if your amp is 200 rms and you have 2 100w rms subs your good to go, but its always better to over power than to under power. i used to have a 4 channel mtx amp runnin 2 channels briged to a kicker l7 solo baric, its like 750 watts rms sub and the amp was only puttin out like 150 to the sub if i was lucky, sounded fine at low lvls but distroted horrible.
Swez on 09/10/2003 06:13:04
QUOTE: I've got $200. I've had my eye on either 2x RFZ3410s (2003 Punch Z, 150w RMS, SVC) or 2x RFP3410s (2002 Punch HE, 200w RMS, SVC). Ultimate Electronics has the 2x RFZ3410s for $100 and I've found the 2x RFP3410s for about $150 on e-bay and crutchfield.com. Are those good prices? Should I stick with 2x 100w RMS, SVC, 4 ohm subs?
Depends on how much power you "ultimately" wish to feed into your subs and how much bass you want. There is not much difference in SPL between 200 VS 300 watts. (~ 1.5 dB is all) So it really comes down to price and what your amp will deliver. (power wise) I'll look at that .pdf file for details.
Also, if each sub is the same ohmic value, the amp will split its power 50/50 % to each sub. Ie: Both subs are same... 200 watts from amp... each sub will get 100 watts each.
OK, from the spec sheet off the .pdf file, it looks like this amp will deliver 100 x 4 watts RMS @ 2 ohms per channel and the sub channel will do 200 watts RMS @ 2 ohms. Not a lot of sub power here, compared to what you get from the other 4 channels in 2 ohm/ch. wiring configuration.
My best guess, the subs fried because the sub amp may have been clipping very badly to reach a decent SPL level here. When an amp starts to clip, distortion is not easily heard unless you get out of the car and listen from a short distance away.
When clipping become severe, the amp puts out large voltage spikes and maybe some DC voltage. That will destroy a speaker in no time. The sub amp section may have damaged as well. That's where a quick test with a known good sub will help identify same.
Also, how did the subs fail? Mechanical separation of voice coil leads... damaged spider to cone joint separation... subs seized up or fried voice coils? The way each sub, failed has a reason for that failure. Know what failed, tells us why it failed.
You may wish to consider using only the 4 channels on this amp and adding a separate sub amp here. How much of an amp you use is determined by how much SPL you want from the subs. A 300-500 watt RMS sub amp will net very good bass SPL/SQ and less clipping of the bass signal, if you use a larger amp. Choose you subs according to the amp power and ohms load the amp can take.
May I suggest that you look at a Class D Mono amp here? They draw less current, have good power and generally cost less than 2 channel amps. Have a look at these 4 amps as possible choices.
1. http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/1385
RF MONO amp, 500 RMS @ 2 ohms
2. http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/148
JBL MONO amp, 300 RMS @ 1 or 2 ohms
3. http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/186
JBL MONO amp, 600 RMS @ 1 or 2 ohms
4. http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/us_acoustics.html
USX-600D, 375 RMS @ 2 ohms
USX-800D, 600 RMS @ 2 ohms
Once you choose the amp you want, then finding subs for the power rating of the amp wil be easy to do next.
RF is a good product and well known brand... but you will pay top dollar for that name plate in amps and subs. There are so many choices out there that meet or exceed RF performance, but well under the prices RF has for equal or better gear. Have a look and see what I mean. Then come back with your amp choice, and we can look at subs that will mate well to the amp you choose.
I know we can get you into a better amp/sub set for less money than RF products and all amps mentioned are very much favored by many guys I have helped in the past. I own an older JBL sub amp: DA-1002(300 RMS @ 4 ohms) and have not had any problems with amp or subs in 3 + years of use. Very reliable, can take a beating and come back for more and I bought it refurbed for $100.00.
I use a dual 10" sealed enclosure and get low 130's dB of bass and this amp draws less than 35 amps of current as well.
Comments?
Swez
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