lately i have noticed that i turn it up on my stereo around 20 on the volume and my amp fuses blow out
does that mean my amp is a little old now and cant take it no more?
Replies (20)
swez on 07/22/2008 18:18:56
Hey Snappy, it's been a while since we seen ya at CK. Welcome back!
Hard to say at first blush what's really going on here. For sure, the amp is pulling more current then the OEM system was designed for. That is one cause for blowing your amp fuses. It could be the amp is pooping out already or the charging system is not meeting the demand of this amp as needed.
If I recall rightly, you installed an OEM replacement ALT that is only rated for what... ~45 amperes last year? That is fine for the car needs, but too low for most add on amplifiers that can draw considerably more current in short bursts.
Fuses on the amp rarely blow w/o good cause. (The protection circuits in most quality amps prevent that) In most cases, the amp has been damaged over time and either needs repairs or replacement. Have you adjusted the amp gains recently?
Swez
PS What amp is tossing fuses? (Make and Model #?)
snappy on 08/7/2008 15:48:17
i have a aftermarket new alternator i think it has 35amps can my ALT be the cause of why my fuses on the amp blow?
now im looking to buy a new amp so far i got new subs
they are kickers 12's CVR
what kind of amp am i looking at to buy?
i would like to keep my budget under 250
swez on 08/7/2008 17:05:39
Yes, this is a very minimal ALT package at best. (This vintage of car can not support moderate to larger Sub amps w/o help)
The best help you can get is a dedicated BAT, (Dual batteries here) for the amp(s) used. As the ALT tries to keep up with extra load, the voltage drops and the current draw climbs and that may be why your present amp is blowing fuses. (Assuming the amp is still in good shape)
Which version Kicker CVR's do you have now? (2+2 or 4+4 DVC's?)
Say more please,
Swez
snappy on 08/12/2008 08:08:39
swez i have a decent BAT i bought at auto zone later on i might upgrade to a red top if its necessary
and i have the 07CVR122 kicker subs 2 ohm
just like this
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=172620&om_keycode=58
swez on 08/12/2008 09:02:16
Hey Snappy,
Yes, we have gone over this before and it needs to be repeated. The stock electrical system in this car is "INADEQUATE" for high powered sub amps.
These subs would do well with a Class D Mono amp that can deliver 500-800 watts RMS at 2 ohm loads. However, the current draw of any amp in this range will draw more current than the stock ALT/BAT can handle. (60-80 A's draw at full power, but short durations)
If it were my car, I'd be looking for a stronger ALT/BAT combo to power the audio gear and have enough reserve power to operate the car electrical needs too. (25A's for car and "X" amperes to feed the
amp(s) used.
Yes, that will be expensive and modified ALT brackets may be needed too, but that is the best approach. The other option is scaling back on audio gear to fit what is available now. (Not much, maybe 250-300 watts tops)
Do you belong to a Vintage Car Club? If yes, that would be a good source for details on possible electrical upgrades. If not, search them out until you can find appropriate retrofit options. In this case, a 100-120A ALT would be a good option and then add an Optima Red battery if needed.
Comments?
Swez
snappy on 08/12/2008 11:56:40
swez its been hard trying to find a ALT with 60-80 A's
i got one form pep boys i think it has 35 A's
its hard finding one yet alone because the car is so old the only resort i had was to find a decent one from a junk yard which i think it will work for a while then go bad on me that is the reason why i have such a weak little amp.
but once again thanks for the comments swez
swez on 08/12/2008 13:40:44
Snappy,
Wish I had easier news to pass on for this scenario. But these older cars had very little add ons and did not need high current systems. (Even fleet trucks and vans were minimal back then)
To make cars/trucks of this vintage more compatable, one would have to do some research on the subject and find out what newer systems can be fitted to meet your present needs. (Find an Old Geezer in his 60's-70's that was in this biz back then as a resource?) Or, find a guy who restores vintage cars of this era and knows the details of what works and how to do it.
If I recall rightly, the 1960-64 models had 6 cylinder engines and a generator for power this vintage model. Converting this to a newer system that adapts modern electrical components will take some considerable research and "motorhead skills".
Am not that old yet,
Swez SMILE
snappy on 08/16/2008 11:43:22
yeah i understand what your trying to tell me im out on the look out for a better bigger ALT
swez on 08/16/2008 13:10:19
Snappy,
Wish I had more background in vintage car upgrades. It would seem to me that others have crossed this bridge before and finding them as resources would be most helpful. (Vintage Car Clubs & Forums?)
What things did they do to hop up an oldie but goodie for track racing and such w/o spending an arm, a leg and your first born child.
I cannot help but believe/think that there are methods to trick up the electrical system with standard parts off the shelf and some well-planned electrical part swaps that others have done before. I don't know those tricks and steps, but others have done this before and finding them is the solution.
If you can find a drop in ALT/Regulator system that is compatible and has say 85-100A's output as needed, you're on the right path.
Swez
snappy on 08/21/2008 12:59:23
ok swez new story i sold my kicker subs because i needed the money and i got a new amp its a Alpine model mrp m500
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Dfg2wGslKQC/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=500MRPM500
now if u can please tell me whats the most decent powerfull subs i can get for this amp?
swez on 08/21/2008 16:28:23
Solid amp and the SWR-1224D is a great match for this amp. (Did we cover this grounds before?) The M500 is a true Class D amp and delivers rated power as spec's. (Nice choice BTW)
You may be able to use the present ALT and perhaps add a decicated BAT as a "current buffer" to support this Bass Engine".
The dedicated BAT will feed your M500 amp and the charging system should keep up the bass and still run your car adequately. (Depends on how much you push the bass and for how long at a stretch.
The SWR-1242D nets a 2 ohm load to the amp and the dedicated BAT will keep the amp current up under normal lsitening conditions and then some.
There are more efficient subs out there to choose from, but for clean power and tight SQL bass in a compact sealed box, (0.85 cf for a single 12" sub is optimal.
Comments?
Swez
snappy on 08/22/2008 12:01:59
swez i hooked up my amp and it sounds good with the cheap two 12's i got and i havent gotten no problems with my ALT
the SWR-1224D what brand of subs are those?
snappy on 08/22/2008 12:09:47
can u please list me options of the most powerful subs i can get for my new amp?
swez on 08/22/2008 13:55:49
That would be Alpine. They make 2 versions of the SWR Series subs. If you want to have a look, Crutchfield carries them, but at premium prices. Online sites sell them for under $125.00 each.
1. 4+4 DVC (One sub will do the job with the Alpine M500)
2. 2+2 DVC
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=520&i=500SWR1242&tp=111
Both are rated at 500 watts RMS per each and are deemed SQL subs. (Meaning, they are accurate and deliver solid bass performance and can get plenty of SPL with the right amp match)
In your case, a single SWR-1224D nets 2 ohms in parallel mode and can handle all the power your M500 can dish out. This amp will pull some juice at high SPL levels, but under normal listening conditions, figure the amp will loaf along below 35A's current draw.
Recommended "Sealed Box Volume": The sealed box sizes recommends the ideal size recommended by Alpine is 0.85 cu/ft.
Recommended "Vented Box Volume": The vented box sizes recommends the ideal size recommended by Alpine is 1.7 cu/ft. Slotted or round port dimensions to used with the 1.7 cu/ft enclosure: W = 12", H = 1.25", L = 21". If you cannot use a slot port in your enclosure, you will need a port tube with the following dimensions: Diameter = 3", L = 9.9". (Abridged info per Crutchfield)
Finally, the M500 has 2x30A fuses and only needs #8 power and ground wires. Use #12 gage speaker cables between amp and sub.
FYI: You will probably experience notable light dimming issues at night when pushing this amp hard. A "Surge Cap" will not help. However, a high CCA rated battery under the hood will help to a degree. (700 CCA or higher as it has more current storage for all electricals in the car)
Any more questions, just ask!
Swez
snappy on 08/22/2008 17:12:00
swez since day one you have been helping me never let me down once again thanks i will go subs shopping tomorow i will update!
swez on 08/23/2008 08:18:35
Snappy, it's been good watching you grow and that's why we are here.
If you don't mind Internet shopping sites for your sub, here is a short list to consider or try to bargain with local suppliers if you wish:
http://www.etronics.com/p-1120-alpine-swr-1242d-12-type-r-series-subwoofer-4-ohm-4-ohm.aspx?dp=4212724222E6925253C38363F3A357037363737313A313&svbname=403&bname=GoogleBase $102.73 + S/H
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4045_Alpine+SWR-1042D+-TYPE+R-.html?gclid=COyVq6PjpJUCFQEQnQodfWHiQw $105.00 +S/H
http://www.techronics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2167&gclid=CNTXtsHjpJUCFReenAodgDFMkw $110.55 + S/H
Remember you only need 1 sub. (4+4 DVC) SWR-1242D.
Swez
snappy on 08/24/2008 18:06:02
oh i can only get one?
and this is the only sub you recommend for my amp?
swez on 08/24/2008 23:55:45
For this amp, you only need 1 SWR sub. Have suggested this series sub for many guys here and not one complaint or damaged sub reported in 4 years. This is a great SQL sub for the price!
If you want to use 2 subs, we can look at other options. (Single coil, 4 ohm and rated at 250 watts RMS per each would be fine) It will cost more for the pair and a larger box, but we can explore that option if you like.
Have any favorite sub brands in mind?
Swez
kirchatndftbl on 08/25/2008 05:23:08
i have two of the SWR- 1242D subs in my car and love them havent had any problems with them at all
swez on 08/25/2008 06:56:53
Snappy,
See what I mean about the Alpine SWR subs?
Also, doing some research on H.O. Battery kits of late and came across some facts that I had suspected all along... when an amp is not adequately powered by the electrical system, the system voltage drops and current demand climbs to offset what the amp demands. If the voltage drops too low, (Below 11 volts) the amp will draw excess current and often pop their fuses to protect the amp from internal damage. (Your older amp was performing as designed)
Does that sound familiar or what? Severe light dimming is the first stage clue that things are going south. (Let that sink in a bit)
The best options for your situation are:
1. Higher output Alternator (75A's or higher, Ford circa 80's systems)
2. An appropriate voltage/current regulator (Matches the ALT)
3. A stronger battery
4. Big 3 Wiring Upgrade
This can be done in incremental stages too. (#3 & #4 first and see how that goes) If that does not resolve the problem, #'s 1&2 are next.
FYI: Kinetik's and Optima batteries are both Gel-Cell type, AGM technology products. They are superior to typical Lead/Acid batteries in many ways. Neither are cheap, but storage current and nominal voltage levels are much better than the old L/A versions. (The kicker here, you need a good charging source to keep them at peak efficiency)
Chew on this a bit as none will be cheap fixes.
Swez
does that mean my amp is a little old now and cant take it no more?
Replies (20)
swez on 07/22/2008 18:18:56
Hey Snappy, it's been a while since we seen ya at CK. Welcome back!
Hard to say at first blush what's really going on here. For sure, the amp is pulling more current then the OEM system was designed for. That is one cause for blowing your amp fuses. It could be the amp is pooping out already or the charging system is not meeting the demand of this amp as needed.
If I recall rightly, you installed an OEM replacement ALT that is only rated for what... ~45 amperes last year? That is fine for the car needs, but too low for most add on amplifiers that can draw considerably more current in short bursts.
Fuses on the amp rarely blow w/o good cause. (The protection circuits in most quality amps prevent that) In most cases, the amp has been damaged over time and either needs repairs or replacement. Have you adjusted the amp gains recently?
Swez
PS What amp is tossing fuses? (Make and Model #?)
snappy on 08/7/2008 15:48:17
i have a aftermarket new alternator i think it has 35amps can my ALT be the cause of why my fuses on the amp blow?
now im looking to buy a new amp so far i got new subs
they are kickers 12's CVR
what kind of amp am i looking at to buy?
i would like to keep my budget under 250
swez on 08/7/2008 17:05:39
Yes, this is a very minimal ALT package at best. (This vintage of car can not support moderate to larger Sub amps w/o help)
The best help you can get is a dedicated BAT, (Dual batteries here) for the amp(s) used. As the ALT tries to keep up with extra load, the voltage drops and the current draw climbs and that may be why your present amp is blowing fuses. (Assuming the amp is still in good shape)
Which version Kicker CVR's do you have now? (2+2 or 4+4 DVC's?)
Say more please,
Swez
snappy on 08/12/2008 08:08:39
swez i have a decent BAT i bought at auto zone later on i might upgrade to a red top if its necessary
and i have the 07CVR122 kicker subs 2 ohm
just like this
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=172620&om_keycode=58
swez on 08/12/2008 09:02:16
Hey Snappy,
Yes, we have gone over this before and it needs to be repeated. The stock electrical system in this car is "INADEQUATE" for high powered sub amps.
These subs would do well with a Class D Mono amp that can deliver 500-800 watts RMS at 2 ohm loads. However, the current draw of any amp in this range will draw more current than the stock ALT/BAT can handle. (60-80 A's draw at full power, but short durations)
If it were my car, I'd be looking for a stronger ALT/BAT combo to power the audio gear and have enough reserve power to operate the car electrical needs too. (25A's for car and "X" amperes to feed the
amp(s) used.
Yes, that will be expensive and modified ALT brackets may be needed too, but that is the best approach. The other option is scaling back on audio gear to fit what is available now. (Not much, maybe 250-300 watts tops)
Do you belong to a Vintage Car Club? If yes, that would be a good source for details on possible electrical upgrades. If not, search them out until you can find appropriate retrofit options. In this case, a 100-120A ALT would be a good option and then add an Optima Red battery if needed.
Comments?
Swez
snappy on 08/12/2008 11:56:40
swez its been hard trying to find a ALT with 60-80 A's
i got one form pep boys i think it has 35 A's
its hard finding one yet alone because the car is so old the only resort i had was to find a decent one from a junk yard which i think it will work for a while then go bad on me that is the reason why i have such a weak little amp.
but once again thanks for the comments swez
swez on 08/12/2008 13:40:44
Snappy,
Wish I had easier news to pass on for this scenario. But these older cars had very little add ons and did not need high current systems. (Even fleet trucks and vans were minimal back then)
To make cars/trucks of this vintage more compatable, one would have to do some research on the subject and find out what newer systems can be fitted to meet your present needs. (Find an Old Geezer in his 60's-70's that was in this biz back then as a resource?) Or, find a guy who restores vintage cars of this era and knows the details of what works and how to do it.
If I recall rightly, the 1960-64 models had 6 cylinder engines and a generator for power this vintage model. Converting this to a newer system that adapts modern electrical components will take some considerable research and "motorhead skills".
Am not that old yet,
Swez SMILE
snappy on 08/16/2008 11:43:22
yeah i understand what your trying to tell me im out on the look out for a better bigger ALT
swez on 08/16/2008 13:10:19
Snappy,
Wish I had more background in vintage car upgrades. It would seem to me that others have crossed this bridge before and finding them as resources would be most helpful. (Vintage Car Clubs & Forums?)
What things did they do to hop up an oldie but goodie for track racing and such w/o spending an arm, a leg and your first born child.
I cannot help but believe/think that there are methods to trick up the electrical system with standard parts off the shelf and some well-planned electrical part swaps that others have done before. I don't know those tricks and steps, but others have done this before and finding them is the solution.
If you can find a drop in ALT/Regulator system that is compatible and has say 85-100A's output as needed, you're on the right path.
Swez
snappy on 08/21/2008 12:59:23
ok swez new story i sold my kicker subs because i needed the money and i got a new amp its a Alpine model mrp m500
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Dfg2wGslKQC/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=500MRPM500
now if u can please tell me whats the most decent powerfull subs i can get for this amp?
swez on 08/21/2008 16:28:23
Solid amp and the SWR-1224D is a great match for this amp. (Did we cover this grounds before?) The M500 is a true Class D amp and delivers rated power as spec's. (Nice choice BTW)
You may be able to use the present ALT and perhaps add a decicated BAT as a "current buffer" to support this Bass Engine".
The dedicated BAT will feed your M500 amp and the charging system should keep up the bass and still run your car adequately. (Depends on how much you push the bass and for how long at a stretch.
The SWR-1242D nets a 2 ohm load to the amp and the dedicated BAT will keep the amp current up under normal lsitening conditions and then some.
There are more efficient subs out there to choose from, but for clean power and tight SQL bass in a compact sealed box, (0.85 cf for a single 12" sub is optimal.
Comments?
Swez
snappy on 08/22/2008 12:01:59
swez i hooked up my amp and it sounds good with the cheap two 12's i got and i havent gotten no problems with my ALT
the SWR-1224D what brand of subs are those?
snappy on 08/22/2008 12:09:47
can u please list me options of the most powerful subs i can get for my new amp?
swez on 08/22/2008 13:55:49
That would be Alpine. They make 2 versions of the SWR Series subs. If you want to have a look, Crutchfield carries them, but at premium prices. Online sites sell them for under $125.00 each.
1. 4+4 DVC (One sub will do the job with the Alpine M500)
2. 2+2 DVC
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=520&i=500SWR1242&tp=111
Both are rated at 500 watts RMS per each and are deemed SQL subs. (Meaning, they are accurate and deliver solid bass performance and can get plenty of SPL with the right amp match)
In your case, a single SWR-1224D nets 2 ohms in parallel mode and can handle all the power your M500 can dish out. This amp will pull some juice at high SPL levels, but under normal listening conditions, figure the amp will loaf along below 35A's current draw.
Recommended "Sealed Box Volume": The sealed box sizes recommends the ideal size recommended by Alpine is 0.85 cu/ft.
Recommended "Vented Box Volume": The vented box sizes recommends the ideal size recommended by Alpine is 1.7 cu/ft. Slotted or round port dimensions to used with the 1.7 cu/ft enclosure: W = 12", H = 1.25", L = 21". If you cannot use a slot port in your enclosure, you will need a port tube with the following dimensions: Diameter = 3", L = 9.9". (Abridged info per Crutchfield)
Finally, the M500 has 2x30A fuses and only needs #8 power and ground wires. Use #12 gage speaker cables between amp and sub.
FYI: You will probably experience notable light dimming issues at night when pushing this amp hard. A "Surge Cap" will not help. However, a high CCA rated battery under the hood will help to a degree. (700 CCA or higher as it has more current storage for all electricals in the car)
Any more questions, just ask!
Swez
snappy on 08/22/2008 17:12:00
swez since day one you have been helping me never let me down once again thanks i will go subs shopping tomorow i will update!
swez on 08/23/2008 08:18:35
Snappy, it's been good watching you grow and that's why we are here.
If you don't mind Internet shopping sites for your sub, here is a short list to consider or try to bargain with local suppliers if you wish:
http://www.etronics.com/p-1120-alpine-swr-1242d-12-type-r-series-subwoofer-4-ohm-4-ohm.aspx?dp=4212724222E6925253C38363F3A357037363737313A313&svbname=403&bname=GoogleBase $102.73 + S/H
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4045_Alpine+SWR-1042D+-TYPE+R-.html?gclid=COyVq6PjpJUCFQEQnQodfWHiQw $105.00 +S/H
http://www.techronics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2167&gclid=CNTXtsHjpJUCFReenAodgDFMkw $110.55 + S/H
Remember you only need 1 sub. (4+4 DVC) SWR-1242D.
Swez
snappy on 08/24/2008 18:06:02
oh i can only get one?
and this is the only sub you recommend for my amp?
swez on 08/24/2008 23:55:45
For this amp, you only need 1 SWR sub. Have suggested this series sub for many guys here and not one complaint or damaged sub reported in 4 years. This is a great SQL sub for the price!
If you want to use 2 subs, we can look at other options. (Single coil, 4 ohm and rated at 250 watts RMS per each would be fine) It will cost more for the pair and a larger box, but we can explore that option if you like.
Have any favorite sub brands in mind?
Swez
kirchatndftbl on 08/25/2008 05:23:08
i have two of the SWR- 1242D subs in my car and love them havent had any problems with them at all
swez on 08/25/2008 06:56:53
Snappy,
See what I mean about the Alpine SWR subs?
Also, doing some research on H.O. Battery kits of late and came across some facts that I had suspected all along... when an amp is not adequately powered by the electrical system, the system voltage drops and current demand climbs to offset what the amp demands. If the voltage drops too low, (Below 11 volts) the amp will draw excess current and often pop their fuses to protect the amp from internal damage. (Your older amp was performing as designed)
Does that sound familiar or what? Severe light dimming is the first stage clue that things are going south. (Let that sink in a bit)
The best options for your situation are:
1. Higher output Alternator (75A's or higher, Ford circa 80's systems)
2. An appropriate voltage/current regulator (Matches the ALT)
3. A stronger battery
4. Big 3 Wiring Upgrade
This can be done in incremental stages too. (#3 & #4 first and see how that goes) If that does not resolve the problem, #'s 1&2 are next.
FYI: Kinetik's and Optima batteries are both Gel-Cell type, AGM technology products. They are superior to typical Lead/Acid batteries in many ways. Neither are cheap, but storage current and nominal voltage levels are much better than the old L/A versions. (The kicker here, you need a good charging source to keep them at peak efficiency)
Chew on this a bit as none will be cheap fixes.
Swez
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