Ok i have a Dual XDV8125 that is about to be put in, my car has 3.5" speakers in the front with separate tweeters right next to it and 5.25" speakers in the back. It is a convertible and i want to replace everything in there, i wanted to put a good 50 X 4 watts rms (or have the 3.5's running off the deck power and a 50 X 2 watt rms for the 5.25's) amplifier in there in order to juice up them speakers and still have them sound good, but i am also replacing ALL of the speakers, i was thinking JBL's but i came here to see what would give it a loud crisp clear sound with the top down or up while have a some bass response. Also if you don't mind me asking another question, i wanted to put in 2 12" subs in the back with maybe a 1000 watt class d mono amp pushing maybe 200 X 2 watts rms to give it the bass response it would be lacking in the regular speakers. If you could get back to me id be greatly appreciative, i have about 300$ for the door speakers and amp to spend then id have to wait a little bit on the amp
Replies (19)
Zach1989 on 05/22/2008 17:51:57
(the one for the subs) and subs but if you could just tell me some good things that are out right now.
I was thinking along the lines of JBL GTO327 3.5" speakers and JBL Power P552 5.25" speakers for the setup and get a good pair of tweeters, but someone i talked to said if you wanna do it go for the good stuff and not be bothered again so i took it as that setup wouldnt be that good, if you have any suggestions i would love to hear them so i can have a great sounding ride.
SQLThump on 05/22/2008 18:12:58
Easy with the reply button there........you kinda spammed us....
Fisrt, if you do want good clean and long lasting sound, scrap the Dual head unit. Dual is exceptionally crappy gear, and if it were to last more than the 3 month waranty period, it would be a shock.
JBL makes some great stuff yes, but for cleaner sound, you will want to use components in the front, which you may need to make mounting points, as 3.5 inchers plain aren't goint to cut it for any accurate midbass in the front.
Generally, the goal with upper range sound, is to make a great soundstage for the front, and if rear fill is desired, coaxials will generally work fine. You always want to put the better speakers in the front as oppossed to the rear.
Not quite sure what you were getting at with "i wanted to put in 2 12" subs in the back with maybe a 1000 watt class d mono amp pushing maybe 200 X 2 watts rms to give it the bass response it would be lacking in the regular speakers"
Class D Mono amps have a single channel, although many do have multiple speaker outputs, they are bridged internally. Are you getting at 200RMSx2 for your uper range and 1000RMS mono for a pair of subs or something??
clarify a little, delete some extra threads if you could, break it up into paragraphs a little, and get back to us.
swez on 05/22/2008 19:18:30
Agree with SQL on much of his recommendations. Dual is a bargain basement Aftermarket HU and for a few more $$'s you can really enjoy the new upgrades.
As for the 3.5" Mids and Tweets in the front stage, a little experimentation could give you a nice sound stage mix with careful attention to filtering. A 3.5" Midrange is probably only usable above 300-500 Hz. That's where the vocals, guitar and upper keyboards live.
As for the rear speakers, 5.25" speakers in the rear doors could do a decent job at Midbass and extended range too. If there is a fit kit that allows you to use 6.5" speakers in the same location, Midbass performance will be even better.
When considering the subwoofer part of the equation, a single 12" sub at 300-500 watts RMS will make nice difference in the overall low end part of the Bass Engine. (Think Alpine SWR-1242D and a true Class D Mono amp for this part) A matching amp is up to your budget numbers.
Comments?
Swez
PS Take your time on the matter as this could be a a big step up from the stock system, but some careful planning and help from the CK team will get you there.
PSS I deleted your other post.
Zach1989 on 05/23/2008 11:00:48
Sorry about the spamming i kept hitting reply then back because it didnt fit everything. i could open that hole a little bit more to make room for 6.5" speakers for the back. Some audio guy told me to get a 1000 watt class d mono amp i never used one before so i thought it was still in two channels or whatever, because he said it would provide more power but having less stress on the alternator. what type of ideas for the fronts and tweets would you have as there is little to no room for play in the sizing of those since they are up on the dash by the windshield so i really cant get in there to modify space arrangement or anything. could you name some good head unit brands? that will last me because last time the deck only lasted a little bit and it really irritated me. Thanks again i do appreciate the input.
swez on 05/24/2008 05:50:42
Zach,
Have you looked closely at the front door panels as a possible option for this Saab? If there are cut outs there where larger speakers can be installed, this could help improve the front stage of the project with a nice set of full range speakers or Midbass drivers in the front stage. (More kick and punch up front)
Even though the present stock locations up front are small format speakers, (Midrange and tweeters) they can still be useful with careful attention to speaker selection, adequate power and effective crossovers. The rear door speakers can be full range or MB only if you wish.
Most good 5.25" speakers will go down to 80 Hz and still sound solid and punchy with adequate amping power. Adding a modest sub in the trunk will bring up the bass. Depending on your bass preferences, the size of the woofer and amp to power it could be modest to strong. However, know that a larger sub amp will put a big load on your electricals and upgrades in that area can get pretty expensive.
Finally, all of this can be done in stages if planned properly. Knowing your budget limits and what the ultimate goal for your install might be, would be most helpful. Can you outline in some detail, where you'd like to see this project when it's finished?
Swez
PS Please break up the segments with new paragraphs. Reading a wall of text w/o spaces is very challenging to the guys who will be helping out on this project. (Read... annoying) Help us to help you and use the same writing format you have seen in replies from SQL Thump and myself. Thanks!
Zach1989 on 05/24/2008 10:41:04
Alright I can do that. The Saab does not have cut outs for door panels but im sure with a little work they can be arranged i just wasn't sure if I wanted to endevour on such a project quite yet, all the cutting and whatever.
I do believe that i can widen the hole in the back for 6.5's relatively easy. As for the sound i would liek to hear in the end, it doesn't have to be hear me three blocks away type of system but more like i said earlier.
with the top down i want to be able to hear the music crisp and clear but with the top up id like to hear that with the additional bass in the trunk to back it up. Because with the top down there would be no point in haveing bass in the back.
I would say id like to spend 300$ on the speakers and another 300$ on amps and subs and call it a day at that then i can start the installation procedure. As you have mentioned the Saab is very expensive for electrical upgrades and the alternator is doing about 90 amps so something that would sound nice in my car,
keyword "IN" rather than near or around, you know what im saying? Some people have nice sounding cars as they are driving but sound all nasty and horrible when you hop in but like they say they got SPL a lot of bass power but no quality. Thanks again for the response.
PS is this what you were talking about? breaking it up a little bit, it is actually easier on the eyes and helpful when reading. I see what you mean
swez on 05/24/2008 12:32:22
That's much better to read...
OK, keeping the sound inside is a bit easier when the top is on. When we drop the top, much of the sound goes out with it. (You seem to note that already and that's correct)
About the rear speakers, a simple MDF donut, (speaker ring) may allow you to convert to a 6.5" speaker. The trick is to affix the ring to the exsisting hole and have enough clearance for the rear window and mechanical not to hit the speaker when mounted.
As for speakers and amp matching, figure about 50 watts RMS per channel to be a reasonable level of power. (More power than that will only produce more demand from the electricals) If the speakers used a high efficiency, (88 dB @ say 2 watts... [2.83 volts]) that should be plenty of clean SPL from them.
As for brands, JBL, Infinity, Kicker, Alpine, Polk and a few others fit the bill nicely. These are very dependable, meet or exceed rated power and if you shop them well, the prices out there now are getting better as the economy slides. A few makers even offer a 5 channel amp that employs a Class D Mono channel for the sub. These cost a bit more, but all amp channels are in one package and easier to wire in too.
That Dual XDV8125 HU has some nice features but lacks RCA outs for the front stage amp. (Rear and sub channel RCA outs only) It's still usable with a few minor modifications, but reliability may be below average as Crutchfield had discontinued this item. (There's a good reason behind that, but I don't know what that is)
Finally, for modest but notable bass power, ~300 watts RMS to a single sealed 12" should satisfy all the but the "Basshead" guys. The sub will not be too expensive as it does not have to handle huge amounts of power. Again, a 5-channel amp is one option. Adding a separate sub amp would be the other option. Once the amp choices are made, figuring out the best sub for this app is easy. The most efficient amps for bass are Class D type Mono amps. These have special power supplies to deliver the most clean power to 1 or 2 ohm loads.
Got all that?
Swez
Zach1989 on 05/26/2008 13:26:03
Yes that helps out a lot thanks for the advice, i have a little 50 watts rms X 2 channels amp from walmart i had given to me, my original thought was to put the 3.5"s up and run them off the new head unit power and then put the 5.25"s or the 6.5"s onto that amp to give it sound fromt he bigger speakers then put a sub in the back and add an amp.
That was of course before i went to the guy and he said a bunch of stuff, then i decided to come here and really see what was gonna be good. As for the speakers i was looking at the JBL gto series for 3.5"s and the JBL power series for the bigger ones. But the guy said those were not gonna be the best. I got the links to the two speakers right here:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4489
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3133
But also i just noticed these:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3138
As for the amp and sub selection i havent had time to take a look because im gonna do it one step at a time unit and speakers use what i got i was hopin and then buy what i need then another paycheck get the amp and sub. but what do you think about those speakers? I've heard a lot of good things about bose and JBL so i was gonna go with them.
Zach1989 on 05/26/2008 14:16:57
Hey i was looking around a little bit and i usually us emy ipod anyways so what do you think of these three decks,
Clarion option #1:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6275
Clarion option #2 (i like this one):
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6278
JVC Option #3:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5194
Any of those would satisfy what i need? They all look good with reasonable prices i would say. Thanks again for the responses.
swez on 05/26/2008 17:42:41
The JBL speakers noted should be a good step up from stock speakers you have now. Once you remove the rear door speakers, measure the depth and that will tell you how much depth you have to work with plus a the MDF donuts will help too.
As for the HU's shown, hold off on that part for now. There's an option I am thinking about that would give you 6 output channels, (F, R & S) more EQ power and an AUX input for your I-pod for way less than replacing this HU. (Don't fix what ain't broke yet) SMILE
Consider finding space for this unit. In the dash or console pocket install would be good:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3967
This 2 channel amp you mentioned, what fuse values are used for it? If it's 40 or higher, that might be good to power the sub for now and then we can look for a decent 4 channel amp to power the front and rear speakers too.
Combine all that with the mentioned EQ/Line Driver, now ya got something to work with that has a lot of flexibility and control at your finger tips. (Yes, I-pod integration will be a snap)
Swez
Zach1989 on 05/27/2008 10:36:02
The saab Already came with a clarion equalizer stock but i think its broken so maybe just maybe thatd be a plug right in job. So for now I'll just check depth and buy the jbl setup.
The amp is the small one from walmart for 50 dollars and i believe it has a 20 amp fuse, thats why i was sayin about running the rears with it and then hooking up the 3.5's to the head unit and that would almost max em bout out. But im not against getting a new amp for speakers.
Ill check about the clarion i might order that and the speakers today and then next thursday i can order the unit amps and subs or whatever. We'll see whats going on. Let me know about that amp, and ill see if i can "
make" speaker fittings in the front doors as well and put them and the rears on the amp or something.
thanks for all of your help, this system should be pretty damn good when its done if i say so myself... Could you give me a brief tutorial or a link on how equalizers work and how to tune it up if you dont mind? thanks a bunch.
Zach1989 on 05/27/2008 10:46:59
LOL you guys must be getting sick of me but before i buy the speakers, which one of the two would be better?
JBL PSeries:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3138
Or
JBL GTO 6.5"s:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4492
Zach1989 on 05/27/2008 15:03:16
One more time i swear, before i see what deck you have in mind. Two more decks they look cool but i looked them up about preamp outs and the aux cable input and usb on the faceplate, along with rms rating.
Kenwood:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6340
Pioneer Premier:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6264
wasn't sure about a good amount of voltage coming front he preamp outs. I was just curious about these two now that i looked a little more into it or maybe im missing something but i bought the equalizer and the 3.5"s, im just waiting on the response about the two speakers in the above post before i buy those.
Thanks again, Zach
SQLThump on 05/27/2008 19:13:44
Personally, of all the ecks listed I would definitely go with Clarion option #1, the Clarion DXZ785USB. This is a pretty sweet deck, with plenty of great features.
Atlthough it says it has a built in EQ, it does not go into too much detail, and with built in crossover networks, Time correction, 6 Volt preouts, and plenty of other features that offer much system expandibility in the future. Plus, it appears that it will play just about media type from any newfadangled Ipod or other doodad you may throw at it.
There are about a thousand reasons why I would pick this H/U over the others listed, but I will try to avoid boring you to death.......
Not too sure on how easy it would be to integrate with your stock EQ, since these usually can only control a factory amp. Depending on whay H/U you pick up, you may not need a EQ at all. Maybe Swez or someone else can elaborate a bit more.
I am sure I know what Walmart amp your talking about, and it would work for a start, but if you are considering any serious front stage upgrades past the 3.5 inchers, I would definitely put some cash aside for a better upper range amp.
As for the speakers you asked about, I would go with the JBL GTO627 over the others, since they have a lower power handling and higher sensitivity, they will pair up more effectively with a modest amp.
swez on 05/27/2008 19:18:03
Stay the course on the present HU and EQ noted before. If you have spare cash later or this one craps out, then we can look at some options there.
That amp you mentioned is probably close to 50 x 2 watts RMS @ 4 ohms per channel. It's enough to drive the rear speakers mentioned and if you went with a modest yet efficient sub, I'd say about 150 RMS bridged MONO to a 4 ohm sub is what to expect from it. (Not a bad option for now) but a little more RMS power for a solid bass engine would be the next upgrade.
As for EQ usage, an update is pending... hang in there OK...
Swez
Zach1989 on 05/27/2008 19:37:10
Alright Thanks for the advice ill check again tomorrow or something to see if anything else is posted, but for now ill finish buying the speakers and head unit, call it a night there.
Thanks for the help. P.S. how would i hook the clarion EQ you suggested above to the h/u? or is it just preamp plug in?
swez on 05/27/2008 22:20:02
This EQ needs only 1 pair of RCA inputs. It acts like a "mixer" with 6 output preamp RCA's for F, R & S, a master volume control, fader and subwoofer volume control too. It also has an AUX input for your I-Pod and sensitivity level matching controls so you can match the I-Pod signal levels too.
It's basically an active preamp plug and play with lots of neat tools at your finger tips. Used a similar model in an install for a former client and his Nak CD-300 HU. They matched up great in the dash and after all wiring was completed and we fired everything up for intilial tweaking, it was so easy to balance out all amped speakers. (F, R & SW) He loved having all the control features right in the dash.
His model, (Bahn's AEQ-6) had fewer EQ dials, but we were all very impressed as he cycled through several favorite CD cuts, made minor EQ adjustments on the fly and just sat back and listened with delight at the new install.
One thing here, we planned this system for over 2 months. Once the gear list was obtained, he drove up from IN to my place in MI and we took 2.5 days to gut the stock gear, install the new stuff and added sound dampening as well.
He used Infinity Comps for the front and rear, a 10" ported sub and all were powered by JL 500/1 and 300/4 amps. It was the most comprehensive install I had ever done and the results were stunning. We were very pleased with the outcome and he and his buddy headed home with big grins the whole way back. Mission accomplished Houston... we have lift off! CLAP
In your case, this system will be more budget minded and less power too. But the same type of results are possible on a smaller scale and a much lower price. Take your time, plan things carefully and use the best gear you can afford. We'll walk you through the process and answer questions as needed.
In your case, sound dampener may be a good item to add to the install list. It's slow and tedious work, but the outcome is often well worth the effort and cost. In this car, the rear doors will benefit from sound dampening and maybe some used in the trunk as well.
Think it over and we'll discuss the steps as you prep for the install.
Swez SMILE
Zach1989 on 05/28/2008 03:23:42
Yeah I had thought about sound dampening as an option, but i wasnt sure if it would have done much due to the convertible. Alright i ordered the speakers and the EQ. Now all i need to get is a new H/U ill get rid of that dual i got.
Then When I get everything Maybe in a couple of days or so i can start the installation process, but for now i think it will be a good start to a new system. I appreciate all the responses very quickly and accurately.
But im definitely now against sound dampening material, would I just pull pannels and place it in there to fit and then put the pannel back on?
swez on 05/28/2008 09:11:53
Sound dampening helps muffle road/car noise and keeps the sound inside the cabin pretty well. In a convertable, that option may be of limited value as the roof is barely there and road noise will always be an issue. In this case, if you note panel rattles that are problematic, then matting those areas would make sense.
As for matting tactics, the best you can hope for is panel rattle noise reduction. Ambient road noise is considerable, but with some careful attention to these panels, they can be managed. We place matting on panels that rattle based on road noise and objectionable panel rattles. This is because we are adding mass to those panels and changing the resonant frequencies that make them objectionable.
Only the vehicle owner can dertemine where the fixable noise comes from and what to do about them. When we find panel rattles, we add mass as needed to dampen them. You may have to wait until the initial install is competed, then find the rattles and work on them as needed.
FYI: Since this is a trial and error install, (Because of the drop top in this car) you may have to install your gear first, note the quirks and work out a plan to eliminate or reduce them as they crop up. We can guide you in the process, but don't expect perfection here because this is a drop top sedan. There are limits to what one can control and what is not.
Finally, hold off on swapping out the Dual HU for now. It may be adequate until you can sell it and buy a better HU later. "This is a process and not a hit/miss event". If you buy the EQ mentioned, it may integrate very well with what you have now and later. The best one can can do for now is to pre-wire for a future HU upgrade if desired. If it is not needed, the $$'s invested will not be lost. This EQ/Line Driver has a lot of cost/benefits for the price. Don't try to fix what ain't broke for now.
Swez
PS Your most welcome for the assistance and just hang in there for a time on other purchases. I love low budget installs that turn out well. It's a game I'm well versed at. Planning is the key and a good install process will follow, right on schedule. Trust the CK Team! We'll get you home in due time.
Replies (19)
Zach1989 on 05/22/2008 17:51:57
(the one for the subs) and subs but if you could just tell me some good things that are out right now.
I was thinking along the lines of JBL GTO327 3.5" speakers and JBL Power P552 5.25" speakers for the setup and get a good pair of tweeters, but someone i talked to said if you wanna do it go for the good stuff and not be bothered again so i took it as that setup wouldnt be that good, if you have any suggestions i would love to hear them so i can have a great sounding ride.
SQLThump on 05/22/2008 18:12:58
Easy with the reply button there........you kinda spammed us....
Fisrt, if you do want good clean and long lasting sound, scrap the Dual head unit. Dual is exceptionally crappy gear, and if it were to last more than the 3 month waranty period, it would be a shock.
JBL makes some great stuff yes, but for cleaner sound, you will want to use components in the front, which you may need to make mounting points, as 3.5 inchers plain aren't goint to cut it for any accurate midbass in the front.
Generally, the goal with upper range sound, is to make a great soundstage for the front, and if rear fill is desired, coaxials will generally work fine. You always want to put the better speakers in the front as oppossed to the rear.
Not quite sure what you were getting at with "i wanted to put in 2 12" subs in the back with maybe a 1000 watt class d mono amp pushing maybe 200 X 2 watts rms to give it the bass response it would be lacking in the regular speakers"
Class D Mono amps have a single channel, although many do have multiple speaker outputs, they are bridged internally. Are you getting at 200RMSx2 for your uper range and 1000RMS mono for a pair of subs or something??
clarify a little, delete some extra threads if you could, break it up into paragraphs a little, and get back to us.
swez on 05/22/2008 19:18:30
Agree with SQL on much of his recommendations. Dual is a bargain basement Aftermarket HU and for a few more $$'s you can really enjoy the new upgrades.
As for the 3.5" Mids and Tweets in the front stage, a little experimentation could give you a nice sound stage mix with careful attention to filtering. A 3.5" Midrange is probably only usable above 300-500 Hz. That's where the vocals, guitar and upper keyboards live.
As for the rear speakers, 5.25" speakers in the rear doors could do a decent job at Midbass and extended range too. If there is a fit kit that allows you to use 6.5" speakers in the same location, Midbass performance will be even better.
When considering the subwoofer part of the equation, a single 12" sub at 300-500 watts RMS will make nice difference in the overall low end part of the Bass Engine. (Think Alpine SWR-1242D and a true Class D Mono amp for this part) A matching amp is up to your budget numbers.
Comments?
Swez
PS Take your time on the matter as this could be a a big step up from the stock system, but some careful planning and help from the CK team will get you there.
PSS I deleted your other post.
Zach1989 on 05/23/2008 11:00:48
Sorry about the spamming i kept hitting reply then back because it didnt fit everything. i could open that hole a little bit more to make room for 6.5" speakers for the back. Some audio guy told me to get a 1000 watt class d mono amp i never used one before so i thought it was still in two channels or whatever, because he said it would provide more power but having less stress on the alternator. what type of ideas for the fronts and tweets would you have as there is little to no room for play in the sizing of those since they are up on the dash by the windshield so i really cant get in there to modify space arrangement or anything. could you name some good head unit brands? that will last me because last time the deck only lasted a little bit and it really irritated me. Thanks again i do appreciate the input.
swez on 05/24/2008 05:50:42
Zach,
Have you looked closely at the front door panels as a possible option for this Saab? If there are cut outs there where larger speakers can be installed, this could help improve the front stage of the project with a nice set of full range speakers or Midbass drivers in the front stage. (More kick and punch up front)
Even though the present stock locations up front are small format speakers, (Midrange and tweeters) they can still be useful with careful attention to speaker selection, adequate power and effective crossovers. The rear door speakers can be full range or MB only if you wish.
Most good 5.25" speakers will go down to 80 Hz and still sound solid and punchy with adequate amping power. Adding a modest sub in the trunk will bring up the bass. Depending on your bass preferences, the size of the woofer and amp to power it could be modest to strong. However, know that a larger sub amp will put a big load on your electricals and upgrades in that area can get pretty expensive.
Finally, all of this can be done in stages if planned properly. Knowing your budget limits and what the ultimate goal for your install might be, would be most helpful. Can you outline in some detail, where you'd like to see this project when it's finished?
Swez
PS Please break up the segments with new paragraphs. Reading a wall of text w/o spaces is very challenging to the guys who will be helping out on this project. (Read... annoying) Help us to help you and use the same writing format you have seen in replies from SQL Thump and myself. Thanks!
Zach1989 on 05/24/2008 10:41:04
Alright I can do that. The Saab does not have cut outs for door panels but im sure with a little work they can be arranged i just wasn't sure if I wanted to endevour on such a project quite yet, all the cutting and whatever.
I do believe that i can widen the hole in the back for 6.5's relatively easy. As for the sound i would liek to hear in the end, it doesn't have to be hear me three blocks away type of system but more like i said earlier.
with the top down i want to be able to hear the music crisp and clear but with the top up id like to hear that with the additional bass in the trunk to back it up. Because with the top down there would be no point in haveing bass in the back.
I would say id like to spend 300$ on the speakers and another 300$ on amps and subs and call it a day at that then i can start the installation procedure. As you have mentioned the Saab is very expensive for electrical upgrades and the alternator is doing about 90 amps so something that would sound nice in my car,
keyword "IN" rather than near or around, you know what im saying? Some people have nice sounding cars as they are driving but sound all nasty and horrible when you hop in but like they say they got SPL a lot of bass power but no quality. Thanks again for the response.
PS is this what you were talking about? breaking it up a little bit, it is actually easier on the eyes and helpful when reading. I see what you mean
swez on 05/24/2008 12:32:22
That's much better to read...
OK, keeping the sound inside is a bit easier when the top is on. When we drop the top, much of the sound goes out with it. (You seem to note that already and that's correct)
About the rear speakers, a simple MDF donut, (speaker ring) may allow you to convert to a 6.5" speaker. The trick is to affix the ring to the exsisting hole and have enough clearance for the rear window and mechanical not to hit the speaker when mounted.
As for speakers and amp matching, figure about 50 watts RMS per channel to be a reasonable level of power. (More power than that will only produce more demand from the electricals) If the speakers used a high efficiency, (88 dB @ say 2 watts... [2.83 volts]) that should be plenty of clean SPL from them.
As for brands, JBL, Infinity, Kicker, Alpine, Polk and a few others fit the bill nicely. These are very dependable, meet or exceed rated power and if you shop them well, the prices out there now are getting better as the economy slides. A few makers even offer a 5 channel amp that employs a Class D Mono channel for the sub. These cost a bit more, but all amp channels are in one package and easier to wire in too.
That Dual XDV8125 HU has some nice features but lacks RCA outs for the front stage amp. (Rear and sub channel RCA outs only) It's still usable with a few minor modifications, but reliability may be below average as Crutchfield had discontinued this item. (There's a good reason behind that, but I don't know what that is)
Finally, for modest but notable bass power, ~300 watts RMS to a single sealed 12" should satisfy all the but the "Basshead" guys. The sub will not be too expensive as it does not have to handle huge amounts of power. Again, a 5-channel amp is one option. Adding a separate sub amp would be the other option. Once the amp choices are made, figuring out the best sub for this app is easy. The most efficient amps for bass are Class D type Mono amps. These have special power supplies to deliver the most clean power to 1 or 2 ohm loads.
Got all that?
Swez
Zach1989 on 05/26/2008 13:26:03
Yes that helps out a lot thanks for the advice, i have a little 50 watts rms X 2 channels amp from walmart i had given to me, my original thought was to put the 3.5"s up and run them off the new head unit power and then put the 5.25"s or the 6.5"s onto that amp to give it sound fromt he bigger speakers then put a sub in the back and add an amp.
That was of course before i went to the guy and he said a bunch of stuff, then i decided to come here and really see what was gonna be good. As for the speakers i was looking at the JBL gto series for 3.5"s and the JBL power series for the bigger ones. But the guy said those were not gonna be the best. I got the links to the two speakers right here:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4489
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3133
But also i just noticed these:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3138
As for the amp and sub selection i havent had time to take a look because im gonna do it one step at a time unit and speakers use what i got i was hopin and then buy what i need then another paycheck get the amp and sub. but what do you think about those speakers? I've heard a lot of good things about bose and JBL so i was gonna go with them.
Zach1989 on 05/26/2008 14:16:57
Hey i was looking around a little bit and i usually us emy ipod anyways so what do you think of these three decks,
Clarion option #1:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6275
Clarion option #2 (i like this one):
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6278
JVC Option #3:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5194
Any of those would satisfy what i need? They all look good with reasonable prices i would say. Thanks again for the responses.
swez on 05/26/2008 17:42:41
The JBL speakers noted should be a good step up from stock speakers you have now. Once you remove the rear door speakers, measure the depth and that will tell you how much depth you have to work with plus a the MDF donuts will help too.
As for the HU's shown, hold off on that part for now. There's an option I am thinking about that would give you 6 output channels, (F, R & S) more EQ power and an AUX input for your I-pod for way less than replacing this HU. (Don't fix what ain't broke yet) SMILE
Consider finding space for this unit. In the dash or console pocket install would be good:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3967
This 2 channel amp you mentioned, what fuse values are used for it? If it's 40 or higher, that might be good to power the sub for now and then we can look for a decent 4 channel amp to power the front and rear speakers too.
Combine all that with the mentioned EQ/Line Driver, now ya got something to work with that has a lot of flexibility and control at your finger tips. (Yes, I-pod integration will be a snap)
Swez
Zach1989 on 05/27/2008 10:36:02
The saab Already came with a clarion equalizer stock but i think its broken so maybe just maybe thatd be a plug right in job. So for now I'll just check depth and buy the jbl setup.
The amp is the small one from walmart for 50 dollars and i believe it has a 20 amp fuse, thats why i was sayin about running the rears with it and then hooking up the 3.5's to the head unit and that would almost max em bout out. But im not against getting a new amp for speakers.
Ill check about the clarion i might order that and the speakers today and then next thursday i can order the unit amps and subs or whatever. We'll see whats going on. Let me know about that amp, and ill see if i can "
make" speaker fittings in the front doors as well and put them and the rears on the amp or something.
thanks for all of your help, this system should be pretty damn good when its done if i say so myself... Could you give me a brief tutorial or a link on how equalizers work and how to tune it up if you dont mind? thanks a bunch.
Zach1989 on 05/27/2008 10:46:59
LOL you guys must be getting sick of me but before i buy the speakers, which one of the two would be better?
JBL PSeries:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3138
Or
JBL GTO 6.5"s:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4492
Zach1989 on 05/27/2008 15:03:16
One more time i swear, before i see what deck you have in mind. Two more decks they look cool but i looked them up about preamp outs and the aux cable input and usb on the faceplate, along with rms rating.
Kenwood:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6340
Pioneer Premier:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6264
wasn't sure about a good amount of voltage coming front he preamp outs. I was just curious about these two now that i looked a little more into it or maybe im missing something but i bought the equalizer and the 3.5"s, im just waiting on the response about the two speakers in the above post before i buy those.
Thanks again, Zach
SQLThump on 05/27/2008 19:13:44
Personally, of all the ecks listed I would definitely go with Clarion option #1, the Clarion DXZ785USB. This is a pretty sweet deck, with plenty of great features.
Atlthough it says it has a built in EQ, it does not go into too much detail, and with built in crossover networks, Time correction, 6 Volt preouts, and plenty of other features that offer much system expandibility in the future. Plus, it appears that it will play just about media type from any newfadangled Ipod or other doodad you may throw at it.
There are about a thousand reasons why I would pick this H/U over the others listed, but I will try to avoid boring you to death.......
Not too sure on how easy it would be to integrate with your stock EQ, since these usually can only control a factory amp. Depending on whay H/U you pick up, you may not need a EQ at all. Maybe Swez or someone else can elaborate a bit more.
I am sure I know what Walmart amp your talking about, and it would work for a start, but if you are considering any serious front stage upgrades past the 3.5 inchers, I would definitely put some cash aside for a better upper range amp.
As for the speakers you asked about, I would go with the JBL GTO627 over the others, since they have a lower power handling and higher sensitivity, they will pair up more effectively with a modest amp.
swez on 05/27/2008 19:18:03
Stay the course on the present HU and EQ noted before. If you have spare cash later or this one craps out, then we can look at some options there.
That amp you mentioned is probably close to 50 x 2 watts RMS @ 4 ohms per channel. It's enough to drive the rear speakers mentioned and if you went with a modest yet efficient sub, I'd say about 150 RMS bridged MONO to a 4 ohm sub is what to expect from it. (Not a bad option for now) but a little more RMS power for a solid bass engine would be the next upgrade.
As for EQ usage, an update is pending... hang in there OK...
Swez
Zach1989 on 05/27/2008 19:37:10
Alright Thanks for the advice ill check again tomorrow or something to see if anything else is posted, but for now ill finish buying the speakers and head unit, call it a night there.
Thanks for the help. P.S. how would i hook the clarion EQ you suggested above to the h/u? or is it just preamp plug in?
swez on 05/27/2008 22:20:02
This EQ needs only 1 pair of RCA inputs. It acts like a "mixer" with 6 output preamp RCA's for F, R & S, a master volume control, fader and subwoofer volume control too. It also has an AUX input for your I-Pod and sensitivity level matching controls so you can match the I-Pod signal levels too.
It's basically an active preamp plug and play with lots of neat tools at your finger tips. Used a similar model in an install for a former client and his Nak CD-300 HU. They matched up great in the dash and after all wiring was completed and we fired everything up for intilial tweaking, it was so easy to balance out all amped speakers. (F, R & SW) He loved having all the control features right in the dash.
His model, (Bahn's AEQ-6) had fewer EQ dials, but we were all very impressed as he cycled through several favorite CD cuts, made minor EQ adjustments on the fly and just sat back and listened with delight at the new install.
One thing here, we planned this system for over 2 months. Once the gear list was obtained, he drove up from IN to my place in MI and we took 2.5 days to gut the stock gear, install the new stuff and added sound dampening as well.
He used Infinity Comps for the front and rear, a 10" ported sub and all were powered by JL 500/1 and 300/4 amps. It was the most comprehensive install I had ever done and the results were stunning. We were very pleased with the outcome and he and his buddy headed home with big grins the whole way back. Mission accomplished Houston... we have lift off! CLAP
In your case, this system will be more budget minded and less power too. But the same type of results are possible on a smaller scale and a much lower price. Take your time, plan things carefully and use the best gear you can afford. We'll walk you through the process and answer questions as needed.
In your case, sound dampener may be a good item to add to the install list. It's slow and tedious work, but the outcome is often well worth the effort and cost. In this car, the rear doors will benefit from sound dampening and maybe some used in the trunk as well.
Think it over and we'll discuss the steps as you prep for the install.
Swez SMILE
Zach1989 on 05/28/2008 03:23:42
Yeah I had thought about sound dampening as an option, but i wasnt sure if it would have done much due to the convertible. Alright i ordered the speakers and the EQ. Now all i need to get is a new H/U ill get rid of that dual i got.
Then When I get everything Maybe in a couple of days or so i can start the installation process, but for now i think it will be a good start to a new system. I appreciate all the responses very quickly and accurately.
But im definitely now against sound dampening material, would I just pull pannels and place it in there to fit and then put the pannel back on?
swez on 05/28/2008 09:11:53
Sound dampening helps muffle road/car noise and keeps the sound inside the cabin pretty well. In a convertable, that option may be of limited value as the roof is barely there and road noise will always be an issue. In this case, if you note panel rattles that are problematic, then matting those areas would make sense.
As for matting tactics, the best you can hope for is panel rattle noise reduction. Ambient road noise is considerable, but with some careful attention to these panels, they can be managed. We place matting on panels that rattle based on road noise and objectionable panel rattles. This is because we are adding mass to those panels and changing the resonant frequencies that make them objectionable.
Only the vehicle owner can dertemine where the fixable noise comes from and what to do about them. When we find panel rattles, we add mass as needed to dampen them. You may have to wait until the initial install is competed, then find the rattles and work on them as needed.
FYI: Since this is a trial and error install, (Because of the drop top in this car) you may have to install your gear first, note the quirks and work out a plan to eliminate or reduce them as they crop up. We can guide you in the process, but don't expect perfection here because this is a drop top sedan. There are limits to what one can control and what is not.
Finally, hold off on swapping out the Dual HU for now. It may be adequate until you can sell it and buy a better HU later. "This is a process and not a hit/miss event". If you buy the EQ mentioned, it may integrate very well with what you have now and later. The best one can can do for now is to pre-wire for a future HU upgrade if desired. If it is not needed, the $$'s invested will not be lost. This EQ/Line Driver has a lot of cost/benefits for the price. Don't try to fix what ain't broke for now.
Swez
PS Your most welcome for the assistance and just hang in there for a time on other purchases. I love low budget installs that turn out well. It's a game I'm well versed at. Planning is the key and a good install process will follow, right on schedule. Trust the CK Team! We'll get you home in due time.
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