...hi fellaz, posted a few days ago but i see by the last few strings that loggin' in has lagged a bit due to other projects and time of the year...that's understandable...trying to get my sounds right myself...
..I have a 2006 Dodge Magnum and so far I've purchased a Directed 4500 amp to power 3 JL 8w3v3's in a sealed box, a Sony X-plod (600w) amplifier to power a Kenwood XXV-01D HU and Infinity Reference 6020CS 6.5" Component speakers, and a Tsnumai 1.2 Farad Capacitor 4/8 Gauge Dual Amp kit to bind it all together...
...I understand (now) after reading a bit on here and then taking my curiosity to the www that a 1.5 Farad capacitor is tantamount to dousing a house fire w/a teacup of H2o, and, more than likely w/my system it's not needed, but it came w/the kit so no harm, no foul...
...I upgraded the battery to an Optima Yellow Top...as I mentioned, "CLARITY" is my chief aim...everyone I talked to(GoHoAudio, Crutchfield, Xcel Audio, Circuit City, etc)suggested two 8"s or one 10" by JL and Infinity Reference components...the amps just fell into my lap cheaply- would be able to upgrade to better replaceables if the system requires it...
...my question - too much, too little, and do I need an equalizer for maximum clarity (had my eye on a Cadence 7 band), or is the 5 band equipped w/the HU enough?...I'm not an audiophile, and I'm gonna have to do LOT of reading to maximize the options on the Kenwood;....which is why I've come here...where the PROs hang out..thanks in advance, ANY help will be appreciated.
Replies (26)
SQLThump on 05/21/2008 19:53:09
First, break up posts into individual paragraphs for each sub topic. This avoids the "wall o' text" problem.
Ok, is the Directed a dedicated sub amp? To use 3 3 ohm speakers with maximum effectiveness you will need a one ohm stable amp. Let me knoow if what you have wil work.
Lose the Sony amp with exterme prejudice. And by extreme prejudice, I mean hit it with a sledge, run it over with an 18 wheeler, shoot at is..ect. GRIN
Great choice on the Infinity components. Many people (myself included) here have used them and had great results. Now fing a decent amp to power them fully at their proper ohmage.
Lose the cap too. Unless you really like the looks of it a lot, it really is more comparable to takin' a whiz in a water tower to fill it. Not only will it not work, but there may be less than desirable consequences as well.
Not too sure of the Kenwood H/u you are using, can you find a link to it? Most kenwood units, expecially the excelons, have above average EQ and signal processors built right in. Further equalization shouldn't be needed. But as of late, have been seeing a few reliability with a variety of Kenwood products to where I would never own another. A shame such a great product can be suck a hunk o' crap.........
Another great choice on the Yellow Top, I am sure this will remain a great battery that will last a very long time.
Chew on this for a few, and get back to us. And BTW, Welcome to CK!
UKinstaller on 05/22/2008 04:42:18
if it has the factory boston amplified system, you'll have to bypass the factory amplifier in order to put an aftermarket amp on the highs. works out good, though, because all the speaker wires in the car are centrally located at the amp.
the amp is above the brake pedal, to the left, if there is one. you'll have to drop the knee bolster to see it / work on it, but it's real easy. two or three screws/
nice car! very easy to work on, too. you'll have to run an accessory wire from the fusebox in the trunk up to the radio because the factory radio does not use an accessory.
they make a digital adapter that provides 12V switched power, but sense all you'll need it for is the one stupid wire, save yourself the money. it'd be different if you needed to use it to turn on the factory amp, but you don't.
-UK
Dr1zzzt on 05/29/2008 03:49:33
...thanx for the advice, guys...much appreciated..would have responded sooner but had to pack the bags for company business out of state...Swez, here's the url for my HU:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-czuMEYUh9jG/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=113xxv01d
...had everything installed on Tuesday and, of course, ran into a few snags - here's hoping you guys can set me back upon the path to Audio Righteousness...
1# Only two of the three 8's are functioning...the installer informed me that one of them is "locked" ; it wont displace air, so he bypassed it and rewired the box for the two that do work - after dismantling the box to get to the wires, he also reported that they're JL 8w6v3, not w3s..
2# The Directed 4500 powers up, but doesnt put out any power - the installer didnt know if the locked 8" caused this, or if it was an existing problem - he then agreed with you that the 600w amp wouldnt have been enough to effectively push the JL 8"s and suggested an Exonic 1000w, which I agreed to..
3# One of the factory 6x9 rear speakers was blown during the amplifier shuffle, and I need to upgrade, as the bass just cant cover the lack thereof, plus the factory installs cant compete with the Infinity Reference components..any suggestions - I'm open to all advice...
4# Lastly, with the addition of the 6x9s I'll be purchasing in the near future, what size amplifier do I need to replace the Sony - I had it installed temporarily until I could upgrade to a better thought out replacement, and the new one will need to juice the HU, the components, and the 6x9s...
....I do realize that since I now have 2 8"s in a box made for 3, I'm losing out on the full potential of the JLs..the installer pointed that out also, and I've been in touch with a contractor in the area who specializes in fiberglass enclosures and is going to take a look at my speakers to see what he can do...
...the concern I have is while I do like the sound (so far) of my fledgling system in its infancy stage, should I opt to replace the bad 8" or have him construct a box for the two good ones?..I'd like a more deeper bass than I have now; I dont know how much better it'll sound once I replace the 6x9s and upgrade the amplifier, so here I am, soliciting some guidance, requesting an inkling of your VAST knowledge in what my next step SHOULD be...thanx in advance...
swez on 05/29/2008 09:11:43
Wow, lots of good detail here and for starters, the HU should give you plenty of flexibility for just about any configuration you'd like to pursue.
The front channel Infinity's can be mated with 6x9 Infinity's of your choice and amped accordingly to the power needed to balance the system out. Just note that the rear speakers tend to have a few dB more presents than the front stage and plan your speaker choice accordingly.
As for the subs, three 8" woofers are nice and compact, but they have limits on power handling, how low they can go and wiring choices. Larger format sub like 10's and 12's are typically more efficient than 8's, so consider that depending on the Bass Engine you wish to have in the end.
Finally, this vehicle comes stock with a 130-140A ALT. The BAT is in the rear and it take a heavy cable and ground to get the most from them. (1/0 wiring is recommended, but stock is more like #2 AWG wire) If you demand more bass, consider 2x10's or 2x12's as the fix for more low end bass.
Swez
PS Do you have a link to that Directed 4500 amp for the Bass Engine? After loocking at that in detail, can give you some fresh options if desired.
Dr1zzzt on 06/3/2008 05:00:42
...okay, Change #17...a pair of JL 10w3's have become available at a fairly decent price...would this be a better option?
...perusing your archives, I happened upon a few posts that have my head twisted...please elaborate...it was mentioned that sometimes having multiple subs only net you a few db more and not really worth the $$$ unless competing, when a "few db" will matter...how true is this statement?
...if that truly is the case, why do I need three JL 8's, or the two JL10"s that I'm thinking about - wouldnt one suffice??...I do prefer SQL over SPL, but the two 8's really arent getting me to my happy spot - what would one more 8" really net me?...should I upgrade to the 10"s, and if so, do I really need two of them?
...reading a bit more, was leaning towards one JL 8w7 or one 10w7, but the JL website touts the W7 line as "Competition Series" subs and I dont want to attract that kind of attention to my system - Newport News, VA is safe as far as cities go, but summer ALWAYS brings out the BOOM,BOOOOM, and the audio-thieves with it...!!
...also, the Exonic amplifier's RMS output would wither the 8w7 easily, per your examples, which would prompt another amplifier purchase to efficiently power the single sub.....
...as it is, I'm going to have to take the car to a professional when all of this is installed just to get everything properly tuned and balanced, as even with all the reading and boning up I've managed over the last few months, I just dont understand enough about db, SQL, RMS, gain, crossover's..etc,etc...to be effective enough to achieve the sound I want on my own...REALLY wish some of you lived closer, as you guys know what I want better than I can enunciate it ...I know what I want this system to sound like but not there yet....heavy sigh...
...soooo, what's my next move - will the two JL 10"s suffice, or will that kill my lofty aspirations of a clear SQL output?...hit me back with some options, A, B, C, etc before I throw anymore money away....thanx again in advance for any help that you can provide...!!
Dr1zzzt on 06/9/2008 05:39:45
...any suggestions...oh, and since I have your attention,
again, along with my last post, which would be better suited
for my sound:
Infinity Kappas
JL TR TXi -http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_components.php?comp_id=128
JL VR -http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_components.php?comp_id=129
...once again, thanx in advance for any
forthcoming knowledge!!
Victor on 06/9/2008 06:37:26
I'd like to reply to this post....
buts its wayy tooooo wide on the page due to some links....
it would seem soo easy viewing this page if its not beyond the limits of side scrolling....
it'd be much more fun replying to that one....
please do something about it......
Thx in advance:
Victor....
Dr1zzzt on 06/9/2008 07:11:00
...did that do the trick - hope so - thanx for the tip!!
Victor on 06/9/2008 23:30:02
Have deleted one of your posts, and posting again with the edited link
"""""...Swez, here's the 4500 link: http://www.drdetailshop.com/d4500.htm
...I may have to scrap it and purchase a new one due to its inability to provide power to anything - at the installer's suggestion, I substituted an Exonic 1000w amp in its place, the EXA 1000m : http://www.ampleaudio.com/dashboard/07catalog.pdf and am looking for a replacement for the Sony X-plod to fuel the HU, components, and future 6x9s...
...I'm going to go with the Infinity Kappa 6x9s - I've heard a lot of good things about them, some off of your archives, and I figure I might as well keep it all from the same line...my question - how much power, amp wise, should I be looking at once I do add these to the lineup?..
http://cgi.ebay.com/Infinity-Kappa-6x9-693-5i-6-x-9-3-way-speakers_W0QQitemZ120268109783QQihZ002QQ
categoryZ14942QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
...1/0 wiring is what the installer used; I bought the Tsunami kit and checked on this site, per some of your and other members posts on adequate wirings and grounds for clearer and cleaner sounds...
..thx, UKinstaller - you were right on point about that accessory wire - luckily, the installer was knowledgeable enough to know wat I was referring to when I mentioned it to him...
...as far as the bass, I'm going to stick with the 8"s - I think once I install the 6x9s, replace the X-Plod, get the replacement woofer, and then have the right box built around them, I'll have exactly the sound I'm aiming for...
...once again, thanx for all the advice so far, it's been well-received and acted upon expeditiously...anything else, I'm all ears..."""
Dr1zzzt on 06/10/2008 03:40:51
Dr1zzzt on 06/10/2008 03:49:01
...aside from the 6x9s, what would I need to do to get some more
highs from my system - would adding another set of components
in the back seat be feasible, and what kind of power to fuel it - one
cross-channeled amp for all, or a separate one for the new
components?...I was thinking of using the JL Evolution TR or VR
series
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_components_pages.php?page_id=11s
...thanx again, guys...
swez on 06/10/2008 07:54:42
The Infinity Reference or Kappa 2-way Coaxials or Components would be fine for the rear panels. These will handle 70-90 watts RMS per each, depending on the model you select. I would not recommend 3-way Triaxials in this package. The crossovers and midrange will not sound as balance as a good pair of 2-ways.
From what I see at Crutchfield, this car suggests 6.5/6.75" rounds in the rear panel. After working extensively with another guy on his 06 Magnum, he found it challenging to get decent MB performance in these locations.
He also used the JL W7 13 as the sub and wanted even more bass then the 1000/1 could deliver. We have lost track of each other for a while, so I don't know his progress. (You may have found some of his archived posts?) "Demetman" was his site name.
Anyway, back to you situation... a solid 4 channel would be great for the 4 full range speakers. (75-100 watts RMS is plenty) As for your bass engine, the 8w3v3 comes in 4 and 8 ohm coil sets. Ideally, these are the 8 ohm version and when using 3 in full parallel, the amp will see 2.67 ohms.
The safe power range for thes subs is 150-200 watts RMS each. To get the most from them, the JL 500/1 would be the perfect amp for them. This is a unique amp due to the power supply system they use in the Slash series. Some careful shopping should net a decent price and mate very well with the 2-3 woofers once the amp is dialed in properly.
As for the 4 channel amp, if you like JL and don't mind the price, the Slash 300/4 is rock solid for mids and highs. I have yet to install a more versitile set of amps that deliver solid power to any system I've tinkered with. These are top tier amps, all the way.
When you had the installer look at your subs, did he tell you which version they were? (4 or 8 ohm model?) I hope they are the 8 ohm version and would mate perfectly to the JL 500/1 amp. If they are the 4 ohm version, another amp with 1 ohm stability is needed.
Comments?
Swez
Victor on 06/11/2008 02:33:48
""""He also used the JL W7 13 as the sub and wanted even more bass then the 1000/1 could deliver.
he found it challenging to get decent MB performance in these locations.
using 3 x 8w3v3 8" subs.....
""""""
there is something that says its not with the location or power, its with the acoustics of the car, its eating up freq's somewhere between 60Hz and 125Hz...
they may be some modulation in the lower frequency due to movement of the vehicle too.....
reason why i am concluding things like this is , the suggestion of using 3 8"er by Swez.... these produce very good upper bass freq's... these make you feel a tight punch when merged with the low freq modulation of your moving car...
although a better approach in my view for this install would be you Damp the "floor and roof" of your car sufficiently, and use 2 10"ers with a 500w-1000w power engine...
use 75x4ch amp with 2 sets of good components for Fr & Rr.
cover the rear of your components with foam speaker baffles.
direct the front tweeters into the front wind screen and the rear tweeters into the rear glass. will give your a nice surround stage.
use only required amount of damping in your boot. damp it scantily use small bits here and there, only at points where flexing can occour.
if you're willing to spend ample on high quality electronics, spending a bit on installation will definitely set the stage for them to perform up to the mark.
Hope that helps....!
swez on 06/11/2008 10:36:40
After working extensively with "Demetman" on Dodge Magnum, we both came the conclusion that this vehicle seems suck up bass power when too much dampening materials were used in the rear hatch. Unfortunely, he lives on the east coast and I live in MI. So, meeting and working w/ him were not possible. We did all of this via this forum, e-mails and phone chats. Unfortunately, we have lost touch for now and I don't know what progress he has made over the past 9 months.
As for subs to consider, the JL W8 3v3 series is somewhat low on efficiency. (83.5 dB at 2.83 volts) But the Fs is not bad for an 8" woofer. (35.4 Hz.) But when using 3 of them in a well matched enclosure, that's a lot of cone area available to move air. That's pretty much the bottom line is bass engines... "How much air can they displace to make solid bass in a given vehicle?" That depends on many variables that Victor mentioned already.
What kind of music do you prefer to listen to? Knowing that, we have a better idea on options to toss your way for consideration.
Swez
A pair of 10's or a single 12" would go a little lower, but they need plenty of RMS power to get them up to potential.
SQLThump on 06/11/2008 10:41:02
If looking for some mad efficency, check out the JBL GT5 series 10's and 12's. These boast smaller power handling (275 RMS) great sensitivity (93db@ 1watt) and sound beautiful when paired up with smaller sealed boxes and larger poertd boxes. Definitely well above average entry level subs.
Dr1zzzt on 06/12/2008 05:07:43
...awesome feedback - thanx for the time on my setup, guys!!..to
clarify a few things since my last detailed post :
..the two functioning 8w3's are ACTUALLY 8w6's - when I
removed the baffle for the installer to hook up the RCA
cables, we were able to get the correct model no#s...
...per your suggestions over several posts, I searched and was
able to purchase a set of JL 10w3's in a custom ported enclosure
constructed by a competition pro - it's a beautiful job - I got a deal
on the set because the guy was starting to compete again,
was replacing EVERYTHING with Memphis Audio, and wanted to
unload his old setup...
...I listen to a variety of music, I dont have one stereotypical genre -
lately, though, it's been a lot of Alicia Keys, Estelle, "some" Jay Z
and Lil' Wayne, Ray Charles, Chris Brown, Sade, 3 Doors Down,
etc, etc...I like what I like..no particular pattern, but it's
the vocals I get off on, not so much the bass, which is why SQ is a must...
...havent hooked the 10's up yet, I'm waiting until I get the 6x9s and
having the installer balance everything out-would that Exonic 1000w
( http://www.ampleaudio.com/dashboard/07catalog.pdf ) maximize
the potential of the W3's?...
..am also "negotiating" a deal for either the JL Slash 330/4 or a
Precision Power PPI Art Series A404.2
http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/PPI_A404.2/ to replace the
Sony Xplod fueling the HU & components...
...thanx to you guys and your bottomless well of knowledge, it's
getting there....feel free to point out any gaps you see in the
latest manifestation of "Hurley's wail"...(that's her name)....
...what, you guys don't name your cars??....GRINlaughin....
SQLThump on 06/12/2008 07:35:22
My car is named.......the Ghetto Hoopty Bucket..........
swez on 06/12/2008 08:49:11
OK, the 8W6 series are 6 ohm DVC's, 200 RMS per sub. The net load when all coils, (2 subs, 4 coils) are wired in parallel is about 1.5 ohms. The amp you choose will need to remain cool and stable at that sustained levels.
The Exonic amp specs state 500 RMS @ 2 ohms and is not rated for lower ohmic loads. It may take it, but then again, it may not. The JL 500/1 is rated at loads between 1.5 - 4.0 ohms and will deliver a full 500 watts when set up properly. The choice seems clear at the moment. Your best match is the JL 500/1 for a pair of 8W6 subs.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/Slash_amps/500_1_MAN.pdf
As for the mid/highs, there are many good 4 channels out there. It all depends on features, power and what speakers you choose. To be well matched, the JL 300/4 is pretty hard to beat. It's an older series and finding them at a good discount is very likely.
The good news here, the Magnum has a pretty solid power supply under the hood and can handle power needs of both amp w/o gassing out when you push the system hard.
Lastly, we all know the quality and versatility and reputation of JL amps. They Rock! That's not say other amps won't do the job, but in this scenario, why compromise on an "investment grade" system planned so far?
Swez
PS One option to cut costs, but not quality, is to look for factory refurbished amps. They were generally abused, failed and sent back to the factory for proper repairs. They cannot be sold as new, but often come with a solid warranty and nice discounts over new. That's a good value when we shake it all down to brass tacks. THINK it over OK? We won't steer you wrong.
Dr1zzzt on 06/17/2008 07:14:51
...okay, the Slash 300/4 fell through, but I stumbled upon a good
deal on a 4-channel US Acoustics USB 4085 off of CraigsList -
a certified installer was selling it for a friend; he hooked it up to
show me that it was good to go, and then we stood around and
discussed audio for awhile...
...I was really impressed by his knowledge and asked for a card -
when I procur the remainder of my equipment, I'm paying him to
finish and tweak my system for me...
..I went with the USB 4085 because I've read pretty good reviews
on it from your archives, and I couldnt get the 300/4 at the price I
was quoted at first...I began looking around on eBay and found two
that were new and under $300, but that's when the 4085 popped
in my field of view...
..after chatting with you guys and this installer, I realize (for the
moment) that I'd like a deeper bass engine and went with the 2
JL 10w3s...after the install, if I dont like the results, I'll just revert
back to the 8"s and go from there...
...if I knew then what I know now, oh what a system I'd have to
boast without all the trial and error...the upside is just how much
I've been able to glean from the proverbial trough of knowledge you
guys selflessly offer to us fledgling cubs...thanx again....!!!
Victor on 06/17/2008 07:48:07
this is what you just said...
""""""""...if I knew then what I know now, oh what a system I'd have to
boast without all the trial and error...the upside is just how much
I've been able to glean from the proverbial trough of knowledge you
guys selflessly offer to us fledgling cubs...thanx again....!!!""""""""""""
what makes you think you should pay the installer for installing or tweaking your system.....???
*** Do you trust your listening ability and ability to differentiate between Good sound and Bad sound...???or better sound..???***
If you do, you can learn and tweak your system to your satisfaction without spending an extra penny.....
Donations are accepted on CK,
and i am sure all most all members who have seeked knowledge at CK have been extremely happy with the end results....
You need to feel at home... ask as much as u can, and knowledge will pour......
---------------------------
That USAcoustics amp is a good choice. you'll like to pair it with some good components...
whats your take on components, and any set budget for them...??
as for the Bass package, those JL 10w3s subs in a ( tuned ported enclosure -if you want more bass ) or ( in a spec - sealed enclosure - i'd choose this cause of better quality transients ) paired with a JL 500/1 Monoamp will do just perfect...
hope that helps...
Victor...
PS:
"There are no limits to Knowledge,
and hey,
you're at "Club Knowledge"....
swez on 06/17/2008 10:13:30
Good amp choice. They are hard to find now, but are definitely solid little amps w/o all the frills and expensive gadgets too. Have a USA-4060 packed away for later and it's the older version of what you have and a tad less power. It came out of a buddy's truck when he upgraded to DLS Audio amps.
As Victor mentioned, you can save a good deal of money by doing much of the work yourself. That depends on available time, getting some key info here and having us walk you through the steps as we have done for many cubbies before.
For the most part, it takes a few basic tools, some quality time in researching your install steps, some wiring guides and the proper hardware. In this car, the battery is located in the back of the car. That will make it much easier and cheaper to feed power to your amps. I believe this car comes with a 130-145A ALT as well. That's a big plus if you go a bit larger on the Bass Engine part of this install.
Think about it. If you wish, search our archives for a guy named "Demetman". (Circa latter part of 2006-07) He did a very good install job with our help on his 06 Magnum. His biggest snag was the rear panel speakers were not very robust on midbass. He had to fabricate some adapters to make the aftermarket speakers fit well, but the limited cavity space for them may make it challenging to get solid rear fill MB from the stock locations.
Consider your skills, time and plenty of help from the CK team,
Swez
PS Found info on Dem's install process. Here's a link to help ya review what he went through:
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/archives/4222.html
Dr1zzzt on 06/19/2008 04:11:59
....I accept!!!!!....
....while I still have a LOT to learn, I'd love to be able to navigate
thru MY equipment with at least a small modum of understanding...
....after reviewing some of Demetman's archived posts, and the
detailed instructions and guidance he received as well as offered,
I'm willing to take my install to the next level (for me,anyway)...
....>rubbing hands vigorously<...okay, I'm ready & willing - I'll take
some photos of what my setup looks like at this point, start a new
post, ask a LOT of questions, and await instructions...
...thanx in advance for what I perceive to be an exciting learning
experience!!!...
.....ummmmm, how does one make donations to this site anyway?
swez on 06/19/2008 04:42:43
You can use Paypal, check or MO.
There's a white box below/left of the "Make Reply" tab. Just click on that and you'll get Walter Hargrave's Paypal account info. If you wish to send a check or MO, you can e-mail Walt personally and he will give you a mailing address.
In the meantime, study D-man's posts and threads as you will be using a similar process. If you need one-on-one helps, I now have some time to do this for a modest fee. That includes phone chats, e-mails and detailed schematic drawings in Power Point as needed.
I can also provide recommended wiring kits and hardware at great prices if you so desire. It worked out pretty well for D-man and we became good buddies in the process. Enjoying doing this with/for others, but it's not a money maker on this end. It's more like I help you reach your car audio goals and you help fund my fishing gear purchases. hehe It's a "gentleman's agreement and the client only pays for services they request. (You'll get more than paid for... but that's OK)
It's great to see a pupil learn and grow as time goes by. It's a real kick to have a guy come back after his first major install and say... "Dang, I never expected the results to be this good and am well-pleased with the end results". That's the goal!
Think it over and if you wish to go that route, we'll just swap e-mails and phone numbers as needed.
Swez
Dr1zzzt on 06/22/2008 09:25:34
...hey Swez, ready, willing, & able pupil here...my email is
fenwick247@aol.com....I'm a BIG freshwater angler myself, so I
completely understand the sheer joy of getting new gear!!...I'm
converting my photos now to a viewable size, and will post them
here in a new segment labled "Learning the Bass-ix"...let's get this
newbie up to speed...!!!
swez on 06/22/2008 10:25:23
Ahhh, we have other common interests as well. Yeah, love fly fishing and am thinking about heading out tonight for a few hours, just to get some time in on the new #5 rig purchased last winter.
Ever heard of Quarrow rods? They make private lable and branded name rods for others in the biz. Have a 9', 3 pc #7 and a matching 9', 2 pc, #5 now. Both are 44MM modulus, rated medium-fast action and stacks up well to Redington, Fenwick and St.Croix rods that cost much more.
Just bought a new pair of Orvis Breathable waders, (Endura Series) and they feel great. Have never used felt soled boots before, but here in MI. when the weeds and algae start to grow, a good grip is assured. We'll see:
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_choice.asp?pf_id=42EC&dir_id=758&group_id=777&cat_id=5593&subcat_id=7310&feature_id=17
OK, will shoot you an e-mail and we can begin sorting out the process needed and see how much you understand already and take it from there. I look forward to working with you and when the job is complete, that big grin you'll get when all the work is done. HAPPY
Swez
swez on 06/22/2008 11:05:54
Hey Fenwick, tried to shoot you an e-mail and got a return message that your e-mail box is full. Shoot me a line after you clean up your e-mails OK?
swezdp@yahoo.com
..I have a 2006 Dodge Magnum and so far I've purchased a Directed 4500 amp to power 3 JL 8w3v3's in a sealed box, a Sony X-plod (600w) amplifier to power a Kenwood XXV-01D HU and Infinity Reference 6020CS 6.5" Component speakers, and a Tsnumai 1.2 Farad Capacitor 4/8 Gauge Dual Amp kit to bind it all together...
...I understand (now) after reading a bit on here and then taking my curiosity to the www that a 1.5 Farad capacitor is tantamount to dousing a house fire w/a teacup of H2o, and, more than likely w/my system it's not needed, but it came w/the kit so no harm, no foul...
...I upgraded the battery to an Optima Yellow Top...as I mentioned, "CLARITY" is my chief aim...everyone I talked to(GoHoAudio, Crutchfield, Xcel Audio, Circuit City, etc)suggested two 8"s or one 10" by JL and Infinity Reference components...the amps just fell into my lap cheaply- would be able to upgrade to better replaceables if the system requires it...
...my question - too much, too little, and do I need an equalizer for maximum clarity (had my eye on a Cadence 7 band), or is the 5 band equipped w/the HU enough?...I'm not an audiophile, and I'm gonna have to do LOT of reading to maximize the options on the Kenwood;....which is why I've come here...where the PROs hang out..thanks in advance, ANY help will be appreciated.
Replies (26)
SQLThump on 05/21/2008 19:53:09
First, break up posts into individual paragraphs for each sub topic. This avoids the "wall o' text" problem.
Ok, is the Directed a dedicated sub amp? To use 3 3 ohm speakers with maximum effectiveness you will need a one ohm stable amp. Let me knoow if what you have wil work.
Lose the Sony amp with exterme prejudice. And by extreme prejudice, I mean hit it with a sledge, run it over with an 18 wheeler, shoot at is..ect. GRIN
Great choice on the Infinity components. Many people (myself included) here have used them and had great results. Now fing a decent amp to power them fully at their proper ohmage.
Lose the cap too. Unless you really like the looks of it a lot, it really is more comparable to takin' a whiz in a water tower to fill it. Not only will it not work, but there may be less than desirable consequences as well.
Not too sure of the Kenwood H/u you are using, can you find a link to it? Most kenwood units, expecially the excelons, have above average EQ and signal processors built right in. Further equalization shouldn't be needed. But as of late, have been seeing a few reliability with a variety of Kenwood products to where I would never own another. A shame such a great product can be suck a hunk o' crap.........
Another great choice on the Yellow Top, I am sure this will remain a great battery that will last a very long time.
Chew on this for a few, and get back to us. And BTW, Welcome to CK!
UKinstaller on 05/22/2008 04:42:18
if it has the factory boston amplified system, you'll have to bypass the factory amplifier in order to put an aftermarket amp on the highs. works out good, though, because all the speaker wires in the car are centrally located at the amp.
the amp is above the brake pedal, to the left, if there is one. you'll have to drop the knee bolster to see it / work on it, but it's real easy. two or three screws/
nice car! very easy to work on, too. you'll have to run an accessory wire from the fusebox in the trunk up to the radio because the factory radio does not use an accessory.
they make a digital adapter that provides 12V switched power, but sense all you'll need it for is the one stupid wire, save yourself the money. it'd be different if you needed to use it to turn on the factory amp, but you don't.
-UK
Dr1zzzt on 05/29/2008 03:49:33
...thanx for the advice, guys...much appreciated..would have responded sooner but had to pack the bags for company business out of state...Swez, here's the url for my HU:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-czuMEYUh9jG/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=113xxv01d
...had everything installed on Tuesday and, of course, ran into a few snags - here's hoping you guys can set me back upon the path to Audio Righteousness...
1# Only two of the three 8's are functioning...the installer informed me that one of them is "locked" ; it wont displace air, so he bypassed it and rewired the box for the two that do work - after dismantling the box to get to the wires, he also reported that they're JL 8w6v3, not w3s..
2# The Directed 4500 powers up, but doesnt put out any power - the installer didnt know if the locked 8" caused this, or if it was an existing problem - he then agreed with you that the 600w amp wouldnt have been enough to effectively push the JL 8"s and suggested an Exonic 1000w, which I agreed to..
3# One of the factory 6x9 rear speakers was blown during the amplifier shuffle, and I need to upgrade, as the bass just cant cover the lack thereof, plus the factory installs cant compete with the Infinity Reference components..any suggestions - I'm open to all advice...
4# Lastly, with the addition of the 6x9s I'll be purchasing in the near future, what size amplifier do I need to replace the Sony - I had it installed temporarily until I could upgrade to a better thought out replacement, and the new one will need to juice the HU, the components, and the 6x9s...
....I do realize that since I now have 2 8"s in a box made for 3, I'm losing out on the full potential of the JLs..the installer pointed that out also, and I've been in touch with a contractor in the area who specializes in fiberglass enclosures and is going to take a look at my speakers to see what he can do...
...the concern I have is while I do like the sound (so far) of my fledgling system in its infancy stage, should I opt to replace the bad 8" or have him construct a box for the two good ones?..I'd like a more deeper bass than I have now; I dont know how much better it'll sound once I replace the 6x9s and upgrade the amplifier, so here I am, soliciting some guidance, requesting an inkling of your VAST knowledge in what my next step SHOULD be...thanx in advance...
swez on 05/29/2008 09:11:43
Wow, lots of good detail here and for starters, the HU should give you plenty of flexibility for just about any configuration you'd like to pursue.
The front channel Infinity's can be mated with 6x9 Infinity's of your choice and amped accordingly to the power needed to balance the system out. Just note that the rear speakers tend to have a few dB more presents than the front stage and plan your speaker choice accordingly.
As for the subs, three 8" woofers are nice and compact, but they have limits on power handling, how low they can go and wiring choices. Larger format sub like 10's and 12's are typically more efficient than 8's, so consider that depending on the Bass Engine you wish to have in the end.
Finally, this vehicle comes stock with a 130-140A ALT. The BAT is in the rear and it take a heavy cable and ground to get the most from them. (1/0 wiring is recommended, but stock is more like #2 AWG wire) If you demand more bass, consider 2x10's or 2x12's as the fix for more low end bass.
Swez
PS Do you have a link to that Directed 4500 amp for the Bass Engine? After loocking at that in detail, can give you some fresh options if desired.
Dr1zzzt on 06/3/2008 05:00:42
...okay, Change #17...a pair of JL 10w3's have become available at a fairly decent price...would this be a better option?
...perusing your archives, I happened upon a few posts that have my head twisted...please elaborate...it was mentioned that sometimes having multiple subs only net you a few db more and not really worth the $$$ unless competing, when a "few db" will matter...how true is this statement?
...if that truly is the case, why do I need three JL 8's, or the two JL10"s that I'm thinking about - wouldnt one suffice??...I do prefer SQL over SPL, but the two 8's really arent getting me to my happy spot - what would one more 8" really net me?...should I upgrade to the 10"s, and if so, do I really need two of them?
...reading a bit more, was leaning towards one JL 8w7 or one 10w7, but the JL website touts the W7 line as "Competition Series" subs and I dont want to attract that kind of attention to my system - Newport News, VA is safe as far as cities go, but summer ALWAYS brings out the BOOM,BOOOOM, and the audio-thieves with it...!!
...also, the Exonic amplifier's RMS output would wither the 8w7 easily, per your examples, which would prompt another amplifier purchase to efficiently power the single sub.....
...as it is, I'm going to have to take the car to a professional when all of this is installed just to get everything properly tuned and balanced, as even with all the reading and boning up I've managed over the last few months, I just dont understand enough about db, SQL, RMS, gain, crossover's..etc,etc...to be effective enough to achieve the sound I want on my own...REALLY wish some of you lived closer, as you guys know what I want better than I can enunciate it ...I know what I want this system to sound like but not there yet....heavy sigh...
...soooo, what's my next move - will the two JL 10"s suffice, or will that kill my lofty aspirations of a clear SQL output?...hit me back with some options, A, B, C, etc before I throw anymore money away....thanx again in advance for any help that you can provide...!!
Dr1zzzt on 06/9/2008 05:39:45
...any suggestions...oh, and since I have your attention,
again, along with my last post, which would be better suited
for my sound:
Infinity Kappas
JL TR TXi -http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_components.php?comp_id=128
JL VR -http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_components.php?comp_id=129
...once again, thanx in advance for any
forthcoming knowledge!!
Victor on 06/9/2008 06:37:26
I'd like to reply to this post....
buts its wayy tooooo wide on the page due to some links....
it would seem soo easy viewing this page if its not beyond the limits of side scrolling....
it'd be much more fun replying to that one....
please do something about it......
Thx in advance:
Victor....
Dr1zzzt on 06/9/2008 07:11:00
...did that do the trick - hope so - thanx for the tip!!
Victor on 06/9/2008 23:30:02
Have deleted one of your posts, and posting again with the edited link
"""""...Swez, here's the 4500 link: http://www.drdetailshop.com/d4500.htm
...I may have to scrap it and purchase a new one due to its inability to provide power to anything - at the installer's suggestion, I substituted an Exonic 1000w amp in its place, the EXA 1000m : http://www.ampleaudio.com/dashboard/07catalog.pdf and am looking for a replacement for the Sony X-plod to fuel the HU, components, and future 6x9s...
...I'm going to go with the Infinity Kappa 6x9s - I've heard a lot of good things about them, some off of your archives, and I figure I might as well keep it all from the same line...my question - how much power, amp wise, should I be looking at once I do add these to the lineup?..
http://cgi.ebay.com/Infinity-Kappa-6x9-693-5i-6-x-9-3-way-speakers_W0QQitemZ120268109783QQihZ002QQ
categoryZ14942QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
...1/0 wiring is what the installer used; I bought the Tsunami kit and checked on this site, per some of your and other members posts on adequate wirings and grounds for clearer and cleaner sounds...
..thx, UKinstaller - you were right on point about that accessory wire - luckily, the installer was knowledgeable enough to know wat I was referring to when I mentioned it to him...
...as far as the bass, I'm going to stick with the 8"s - I think once I install the 6x9s, replace the X-Plod, get the replacement woofer, and then have the right box built around them, I'll have exactly the sound I'm aiming for...
...once again, thanx for all the advice so far, it's been well-received and acted upon expeditiously...anything else, I'm all ears..."""
Dr1zzzt on 06/10/2008 03:40:51
Dr1zzzt on 06/10/2008 03:49:01
...aside from the 6x9s, what would I need to do to get some more
highs from my system - would adding another set of components
in the back seat be feasible, and what kind of power to fuel it - one
cross-channeled amp for all, or a separate one for the new
components?...I was thinking of using the JL Evolution TR or VR
series
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_components_pages.php?page_id=11s
...thanx again, guys...
swez on 06/10/2008 07:54:42
The Infinity Reference or Kappa 2-way Coaxials or Components would be fine for the rear panels. These will handle 70-90 watts RMS per each, depending on the model you select. I would not recommend 3-way Triaxials in this package. The crossovers and midrange will not sound as balance as a good pair of 2-ways.
From what I see at Crutchfield, this car suggests 6.5/6.75" rounds in the rear panel. After working extensively with another guy on his 06 Magnum, he found it challenging to get decent MB performance in these locations.
He also used the JL W7 13 as the sub and wanted even more bass then the 1000/1 could deliver. We have lost track of each other for a while, so I don't know his progress. (You may have found some of his archived posts?) "Demetman" was his site name.
Anyway, back to you situation... a solid 4 channel would be great for the 4 full range speakers. (75-100 watts RMS is plenty) As for your bass engine, the 8w3v3 comes in 4 and 8 ohm coil sets. Ideally, these are the 8 ohm version and when using 3 in full parallel, the amp will see 2.67 ohms.
The safe power range for thes subs is 150-200 watts RMS each. To get the most from them, the JL 500/1 would be the perfect amp for them. This is a unique amp due to the power supply system they use in the Slash series. Some careful shopping should net a decent price and mate very well with the 2-3 woofers once the amp is dialed in properly.
As for the 4 channel amp, if you like JL and don't mind the price, the Slash 300/4 is rock solid for mids and highs. I have yet to install a more versitile set of amps that deliver solid power to any system I've tinkered with. These are top tier amps, all the way.
When you had the installer look at your subs, did he tell you which version they were? (4 or 8 ohm model?) I hope they are the 8 ohm version and would mate perfectly to the JL 500/1 amp. If they are the 4 ohm version, another amp with 1 ohm stability is needed.
Comments?
Swez
Victor on 06/11/2008 02:33:48
""""He also used the JL W7 13 as the sub and wanted even more bass then the 1000/1 could deliver.
he found it challenging to get decent MB performance in these locations.
using 3 x 8w3v3 8" subs.....
""""""
there is something that says its not with the location or power, its with the acoustics of the car, its eating up freq's somewhere between 60Hz and 125Hz...
they may be some modulation in the lower frequency due to movement of the vehicle too.....
reason why i am concluding things like this is , the suggestion of using 3 8"er by Swez.... these produce very good upper bass freq's... these make you feel a tight punch when merged with the low freq modulation of your moving car...
although a better approach in my view for this install would be you Damp the "floor and roof" of your car sufficiently, and use 2 10"ers with a 500w-1000w power engine...
use 75x4ch amp with 2 sets of good components for Fr & Rr.
cover the rear of your components with foam speaker baffles.
direct the front tweeters into the front wind screen and the rear tweeters into the rear glass. will give your a nice surround stage.
use only required amount of damping in your boot. damp it scantily use small bits here and there, only at points where flexing can occour.
if you're willing to spend ample on high quality electronics, spending a bit on installation will definitely set the stage for them to perform up to the mark.
Hope that helps....!
swez on 06/11/2008 10:36:40
After working extensively with "Demetman" on Dodge Magnum, we both came the conclusion that this vehicle seems suck up bass power when too much dampening materials were used in the rear hatch. Unfortunely, he lives on the east coast and I live in MI. So, meeting and working w/ him were not possible. We did all of this via this forum, e-mails and phone chats. Unfortunately, we have lost touch for now and I don't know what progress he has made over the past 9 months.
As for subs to consider, the JL W8 3v3 series is somewhat low on efficiency. (83.5 dB at 2.83 volts) But the Fs is not bad for an 8" woofer. (35.4 Hz.) But when using 3 of them in a well matched enclosure, that's a lot of cone area available to move air. That's pretty much the bottom line is bass engines... "How much air can they displace to make solid bass in a given vehicle?" That depends on many variables that Victor mentioned already.
What kind of music do you prefer to listen to? Knowing that, we have a better idea on options to toss your way for consideration.
Swez
A pair of 10's or a single 12" would go a little lower, but they need plenty of RMS power to get them up to potential.
SQLThump on 06/11/2008 10:41:02
If looking for some mad efficency, check out the JBL GT5 series 10's and 12's. These boast smaller power handling (275 RMS) great sensitivity (93db@ 1watt) and sound beautiful when paired up with smaller sealed boxes and larger poertd boxes. Definitely well above average entry level subs.
Dr1zzzt on 06/12/2008 05:07:43
...awesome feedback - thanx for the time on my setup, guys!!..to
clarify a few things since my last detailed post :
..the two functioning 8w3's are ACTUALLY 8w6's - when I
removed the baffle for the installer to hook up the RCA
cables, we were able to get the correct model no#s...
...per your suggestions over several posts, I searched and was
able to purchase a set of JL 10w3's in a custom ported enclosure
constructed by a competition pro - it's a beautiful job - I got a deal
on the set because the guy was starting to compete again,
was replacing EVERYTHING with Memphis Audio, and wanted to
unload his old setup...
...I listen to a variety of music, I dont have one stereotypical genre -
lately, though, it's been a lot of Alicia Keys, Estelle, "some" Jay Z
and Lil' Wayne, Ray Charles, Chris Brown, Sade, 3 Doors Down,
etc, etc...I like what I like..no particular pattern, but it's
the vocals I get off on, not so much the bass, which is why SQ is a must...
...havent hooked the 10's up yet, I'm waiting until I get the 6x9s and
having the installer balance everything out-would that Exonic 1000w
( http://www.ampleaudio.com/dashboard/07catalog.pdf ) maximize
the potential of the W3's?...
..am also "negotiating" a deal for either the JL Slash 330/4 or a
Precision Power PPI Art Series A404.2
http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/PPI_A404.2/ to replace the
Sony Xplod fueling the HU & components...
...thanx to you guys and your bottomless well of knowledge, it's
getting there....feel free to point out any gaps you see in the
latest manifestation of "Hurley's wail"...(that's her name)....
...what, you guys don't name your cars??....GRINlaughin....
SQLThump on 06/12/2008 07:35:22
My car is named.......the Ghetto Hoopty Bucket..........
swez on 06/12/2008 08:49:11
OK, the 8W6 series are 6 ohm DVC's, 200 RMS per sub. The net load when all coils, (2 subs, 4 coils) are wired in parallel is about 1.5 ohms. The amp you choose will need to remain cool and stable at that sustained levels.
The Exonic amp specs state 500 RMS @ 2 ohms and is not rated for lower ohmic loads. It may take it, but then again, it may not. The JL 500/1 is rated at loads between 1.5 - 4.0 ohms and will deliver a full 500 watts when set up properly. The choice seems clear at the moment. Your best match is the JL 500/1 for a pair of 8W6 subs.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/Slash_amps/500_1_MAN.pdf
As for the mid/highs, there are many good 4 channels out there. It all depends on features, power and what speakers you choose. To be well matched, the JL 300/4 is pretty hard to beat. It's an older series and finding them at a good discount is very likely.
The good news here, the Magnum has a pretty solid power supply under the hood and can handle power needs of both amp w/o gassing out when you push the system hard.
Lastly, we all know the quality and versatility and reputation of JL amps. They Rock! That's not say other amps won't do the job, but in this scenario, why compromise on an "investment grade" system planned so far?
Swez
PS One option to cut costs, but not quality, is to look for factory refurbished amps. They were generally abused, failed and sent back to the factory for proper repairs. They cannot be sold as new, but often come with a solid warranty and nice discounts over new. That's a good value when we shake it all down to brass tacks. THINK it over OK? We won't steer you wrong.
Dr1zzzt on 06/17/2008 07:14:51
...okay, the Slash 300/4 fell through, but I stumbled upon a good
deal on a 4-channel US Acoustics USB 4085 off of CraigsList -
a certified installer was selling it for a friend; he hooked it up to
show me that it was good to go, and then we stood around and
discussed audio for awhile...
...I was really impressed by his knowledge and asked for a card -
when I procur the remainder of my equipment, I'm paying him to
finish and tweak my system for me...
..I went with the USB 4085 because I've read pretty good reviews
on it from your archives, and I couldnt get the 300/4 at the price I
was quoted at first...I began looking around on eBay and found two
that were new and under $300, but that's when the 4085 popped
in my field of view...
..after chatting with you guys and this installer, I realize (for the
moment) that I'd like a deeper bass engine and went with the 2
JL 10w3s...after the install, if I dont like the results, I'll just revert
back to the 8"s and go from there...
...if I knew then what I know now, oh what a system I'd have to
boast without all the trial and error...the upside is just how much
I've been able to glean from the proverbial trough of knowledge you
guys selflessly offer to us fledgling cubs...thanx again....!!!
Victor on 06/17/2008 07:48:07
this is what you just said...
""""""""...if I knew then what I know now, oh what a system I'd have to
boast without all the trial and error...the upside is just how much
I've been able to glean from the proverbial trough of knowledge you
guys selflessly offer to us fledgling cubs...thanx again....!!!""""""""""""
what makes you think you should pay the installer for installing or tweaking your system.....???
*** Do you trust your listening ability and ability to differentiate between Good sound and Bad sound...???or better sound..???***
If you do, you can learn and tweak your system to your satisfaction without spending an extra penny.....
Donations are accepted on CK,
and i am sure all most all members who have seeked knowledge at CK have been extremely happy with the end results....
You need to feel at home... ask as much as u can, and knowledge will pour......
---------------------------
That USAcoustics amp is a good choice. you'll like to pair it with some good components...
whats your take on components, and any set budget for them...??
as for the Bass package, those JL 10w3s subs in a ( tuned ported enclosure -if you want more bass ) or ( in a spec - sealed enclosure - i'd choose this cause of better quality transients ) paired with a JL 500/1 Monoamp will do just perfect...
hope that helps...
Victor...
PS:
"There are no limits to Knowledge,
and hey,
you're at "Club Knowledge"....
swez on 06/17/2008 10:13:30
Good amp choice. They are hard to find now, but are definitely solid little amps w/o all the frills and expensive gadgets too. Have a USA-4060 packed away for later and it's the older version of what you have and a tad less power. It came out of a buddy's truck when he upgraded to DLS Audio amps.
As Victor mentioned, you can save a good deal of money by doing much of the work yourself. That depends on available time, getting some key info here and having us walk you through the steps as we have done for many cubbies before.
For the most part, it takes a few basic tools, some quality time in researching your install steps, some wiring guides and the proper hardware. In this car, the battery is located in the back of the car. That will make it much easier and cheaper to feed power to your amps. I believe this car comes with a 130-145A ALT as well. That's a big plus if you go a bit larger on the Bass Engine part of this install.
Think about it. If you wish, search our archives for a guy named "Demetman". (Circa latter part of 2006-07) He did a very good install job with our help on his 06 Magnum. His biggest snag was the rear panel speakers were not very robust on midbass. He had to fabricate some adapters to make the aftermarket speakers fit well, but the limited cavity space for them may make it challenging to get solid rear fill MB from the stock locations.
Consider your skills, time and plenty of help from the CK team,
Swez
PS Found info on Dem's install process. Here's a link to help ya review what he went through:
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/archives/4222.html
Dr1zzzt on 06/19/2008 04:11:59
....I accept!!!!!....
....while I still have a LOT to learn, I'd love to be able to navigate
thru MY equipment with at least a small modum of understanding...
....after reviewing some of Demetman's archived posts, and the
detailed instructions and guidance he received as well as offered,
I'm willing to take my install to the next level (for me,anyway)...
....>rubbing hands vigorously<...okay, I'm ready & willing - I'll take
some photos of what my setup looks like at this point, start a new
post, ask a LOT of questions, and await instructions...
...thanx in advance for what I perceive to be an exciting learning
experience!!!...
.....ummmmm, how does one make donations to this site anyway?
swez on 06/19/2008 04:42:43
You can use Paypal, check or MO.
There's a white box below/left of the "Make Reply" tab. Just click on that and you'll get Walter Hargrave's Paypal account info. If you wish to send a check or MO, you can e-mail Walt personally and he will give you a mailing address.
In the meantime, study D-man's posts and threads as you will be using a similar process. If you need one-on-one helps, I now have some time to do this for a modest fee. That includes phone chats, e-mails and detailed schematic drawings in Power Point as needed.
I can also provide recommended wiring kits and hardware at great prices if you so desire. It worked out pretty well for D-man and we became good buddies in the process. Enjoying doing this with/for others, but it's not a money maker on this end. It's more like I help you reach your car audio goals and you help fund my fishing gear purchases. hehe It's a "gentleman's agreement and the client only pays for services they request. (You'll get more than paid for... but that's OK)
It's great to see a pupil learn and grow as time goes by. It's a real kick to have a guy come back after his first major install and say... "Dang, I never expected the results to be this good and am well-pleased with the end results". That's the goal!
Think it over and if you wish to go that route, we'll just swap e-mails and phone numbers as needed.
Swez
Dr1zzzt on 06/22/2008 09:25:34
...hey Swez, ready, willing, & able pupil here...my email is
fenwick247@aol.com....I'm a BIG freshwater angler myself, so I
completely understand the sheer joy of getting new gear!!...I'm
converting my photos now to a viewable size, and will post them
here in a new segment labled "Learning the Bass-ix"...let's get this
newbie up to speed...!!!
swez on 06/22/2008 10:25:23
Ahhh, we have other common interests as well. Yeah, love fly fishing and am thinking about heading out tonight for a few hours, just to get some time in on the new #5 rig purchased last winter.
Ever heard of Quarrow rods? They make private lable and branded name rods for others in the biz. Have a 9', 3 pc #7 and a matching 9', 2 pc, #5 now. Both are 44MM modulus, rated medium-fast action and stacks up well to Redington, Fenwick and St.Croix rods that cost much more.
Just bought a new pair of Orvis Breathable waders, (Endura Series) and they feel great. Have never used felt soled boots before, but here in MI. when the weeds and algae start to grow, a good grip is assured. We'll see:
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_choice.asp?pf_id=42EC&dir_id=758&group_id=777&cat_id=5593&subcat_id=7310&feature_id=17
OK, will shoot you an e-mail and we can begin sorting out the process needed and see how much you understand already and take it from there. I look forward to working with you and when the job is complete, that big grin you'll get when all the work is done. HAPPY
Swez
swez on 06/22/2008 11:05:54
Hey Fenwick, tried to shoot you an e-mail and got a return message that your e-mail box is full. Shoot me a line after you clean up your e-mails OK?
swezdp@yahoo.com
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