This is actually a question for a friend of mine, he just bought the eclipse subs (SW87121.4) 4 ohm, max 300W continuous power handling and 5 1/4 component speakers (fronts, SC8352) 85W Continuous power handling running off a 4 channel amp Eclipse model PA5422, 85W per channel at 4ohm continuous power. For reference check www.eclipse-web.com .
My question is that well, frankly, the sound sucks, my belief is that the sub isnt getting enough power, cuz from what he told me, the installer is running the fronts and the sub off the amp. fronts are loud, thats for sure, sub is almost nonexistant. I mean it works, but it doesnt bump. I'm taking his car back to the shop today, what should i tell/yell/curse at him so I may A) not sound like an idiot and B) get what my friend wants/paid for, a pretty decent sounding and bumping system.
Oh and also the HU he is running doesnt have a seperate preout for subs. I am thinking he should just have the inside speakers run off the HU and run the sub off the amp, i dont know why he talked my friend into getting a 4 channel amp ( a weak one at that) when a two channel amp would have been just fine (for the sub)
ANy and all help is appreciated
PS im somewhat of an audio newb, i barely know the basics, hope ive provided enough info, oh and this forum ROCKS CLAP
Replies (9)
DreamerL007 on 09/5/2003 11:37:47
OH, forgot to mention, the car is a 98 Mitsubishi Eclipse
Tray on 09/5/2003 13:03:45
Is he running 1 or 2 subs? Sounds initially like 2, but then later on, like only 1.
Anyway, that sub or pair of subs is either getting 85w each, or around 140-150w if it is one bridged.
Options would be to
run components on a 2 channel amp, and the sub(s) on a mono sub amp.
run components on current 4 ch amp, and sub(s) as above.
Upgrade to a higher power amp, which will give more power to the subwoofer. Most likely would need a 5 ch amp, with around 200-250 watts on the 5th channel for the subwoofer.
DreamerL007 on 09/5/2003 13:24:34
yeah, just one sub, sorry for the confusion, but thats what i thought, the sub just wasnt getting enough power
Swez on 09/5/2003 14:38:13
Not a bad combo, but this amp will only put out ~85 RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms. That sub is a good sub and in the right box, it should do well with even a modest power level of ~170 RMS to the sub when rear channels are bridged and the gain control is up to snuff.
Before you go back to the install shop, try adjusting the amp gain to a higher sensitivity level (<2.0 volt) for the rear channels and see if that improves sub performance to any real degree. If you begin to get sub distortions at higher output, back off on the gain til it's gone.
This amp needs to be bridged to net any decent bass to that sub and not sure how the tech wired it into the HU system either. Hopefully, he used the rear channels of the HU rca jacks for the sub. In fact, try pulling one RCA jack off the rear amp channels and see if that improves/degrades woofer performance.
Finally, review the FAQ on tweaking subs. It give a step by step How To on setting up sub channels in conjunction with the amp and HU.
Let us know how you fare out OK?
Swez
ttocs on 09/6/2003 02:58:25
First, don't go in there with anything more then a good attitude. Unless they were twisting his arm while he was screeming, he did what he was paid to do. You should be able to get what you want out of the system as well, but if you go in with a bad attitude, you will probably leave empty handed, with a worse attitude.... If you go in there and explain the situation, and what you would like, hopefully they will try to accomodate you and him. I have gone well out of my way to help fix problems that were not my fault/problem for people that asked politly. I have also kicked people out of the shop/bay when they may have had a easy fix problem because they though yelling at me would get it done..
Swez this is one of the few times I disagree with you. Do NOT take it upon yourself to do ANYTHING to try and fix it yourself. #1, you paid them to do it, #2, doing anything to their install could negate any future warrenty. Even something as simple as adjusting the gain. Nothing upsets us installers worse then people getting into the system and changing things around, then bringing it back later.........
Take it to the shop, camly describe what you/he were wanting from the system, and how that is different from what was delivered.
Swez on 09/6/2003 05:41:56
Thanks for that input ttocks... agree with you about taking the hat in hand approach with going back to the install shop first and calmly explain and show them what your friend wants to obtain and see what they come up with.
Being an avid DIY'er myself, am inclined to do as much as I can on my own with skilled inputs along the way. This situation is different as another has paid for the install and needs to go back and allow the installer the opportunity to improve the present results.
Hey... we all make mistakes and such from time to time. Give the shop a fair chance to see what they can do, before taking matters into your own hands.
Will hold my peace on this one for now and let's see what the shop can do for your friend first. If that does work out... GREAT! But if still not satified, then other options can be explored.
Swez
PS Thanks ttocks... your perspective is right on!
DreamerL007 on 09/12/2003 00:22:48
Hi guys, almost forgot about this thread, the shop took care of everything, and yes I did come in with a smile on my face and was corteous and pleasant to deal with =) but i appreciate all of your help and suggestions, this is a great place, i look forward to learning a lot from the pages in this forum
Swez on 09/12/2003 13:36:50
So... what did the shop tech do to turn your frown to SMILE?
Am curious what tweaks they made... etc., so we can learn a trick or 2 or confirm what we already understand to be good install practices.
Swez
DreamerL007 on 09/15/2003 18:25:19
He didnt do anything, hehe, its one of those things, its like you show up to the shop and it works. What i think was that the fronts were just so Loud, that we didnt hear the sub, you needed to turn it up considerably louder to begin to hear the sub as it was intended to sound. it was installed clean, we shook the box really hard and rechecked all the connections and everything was clean. So thats the only thing I could conclude was that the fronts were just too loud
My question is that well, frankly, the sound sucks, my belief is that the sub isnt getting enough power, cuz from what he told me, the installer is running the fronts and the sub off the amp. fronts are loud, thats for sure, sub is almost nonexistant. I mean it works, but it doesnt bump. I'm taking his car back to the shop today, what should i tell/yell/curse at him so I may A) not sound like an idiot and B) get what my friend wants/paid for, a pretty decent sounding and bumping system.
Oh and also the HU he is running doesnt have a seperate preout for subs. I am thinking he should just have the inside speakers run off the HU and run the sub off the amp, i dont know why he talked my friend into getting a 4 channel amp ( a weak one at that) when a two channel amp would have been just fine (for the sub)
ANy and all help is appreciated
PS im somewhat of an audio newb, i barely know the basics, hope ive provided enough info, oh and this forum ROCKS CLAP
Replies (9)
DreamerL007 on 09/5/2003 11:37:47
OH, forgot to mention, the car is a 98 Mitsubishi Eclipse
Tray on 09/5/2003 13:03:45
Is he running 1 or 2 subs? Sounds initially like 2, but then later on, like only 1.
Anyway, that sub or pair of subs is either getting 85w each, or around 140-150w if it is one bridged.
Options would be to
run components on a 2 channel amp, and the sub(s) on a mono sub amp.
run components on current 4 ch amp, and sub(s) as above.
Upgrade to a higher power amp, which will give more power to the subwoofer. Most likely would need a 5 ch amp, with around 200-250 watts on the 5th channel for the subwoofer.
DreamerL007 on 09/5/2003 13:24:34
yeah, just one sub, sorry for the confusion, but thats what i thought, the sub just wasnt getting enough power
Swez on 09/5/2003 14:38:13
Not a bad combo, but this amp will only put out ~85 RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms. That sub is a good sub and in the right box, it should do well with even a modest power level of ~170 RMS to the sub when rear channels are bridged and the gain control is up to snuff.
Before you go back to the install shop, try adjusting the amp gain to a higher sensitivity level (<2.0 volt) for the rear channels and see if that improves sub performance to any real degree. If you begin to get sub distortions at higher output, back off on the gain til it's gone.
This amp needs to be bridged to net any decent bass to that sub and not sure how the tech wired it into the HU system either. Hopefully, he used the rear channels of the HU rca jacks for the sub. In fact, try pulling one RCA jack off the rear amp channels and see if that improves/degrades woofer performance.
Finally, review the FAQ on tweaking subs. It give a step by step How To on setting up sub channels in conjunction with the amp and HU.
Let us know how you fare out OK?
Swez
ttocs on 09/6/2003 02:58:25
First, don't go in there with anything more then a good attitude. Unless they were twisting his arm while he was screeming, he did what he was paid to do. You should be able to get what you want out of the system as well, but if you go in with a bad attitude, you will probably leave empty handed, with a worse attitude.... If you go in there and explain the situation, and what you would like, hopefully they will try to accomodate you and him. I have gone well out of my way to help fix problems that were not my fault/problem for people that asked politly. I have also kicked people out of the shop/bay when they may have had a easy fix problem because they though yelling at me would get it done..
Swez this is one of the few times I disagree with you. Do NOT take it upon yourself to do ANYTHING to try and fix it yourself. #1, you paid them to do it, #2, doing anything to their install could negate any future warrenty. Even something as simple as adjusting the gain. Nothing upsets us installers worse then people getting into the system and changing things around, then bringing it back later.........
Take it to the shop, camly describe what you/he were wanting from the system, and how that is different from what was delivered.
Swez on 09/6/2003 05:41:56
Thanks for that input ttocks... agree with you about taking the hat in hand approach with going back to the install shop first and calmly explain and show them what your friend wants to obtain and see what they come up with.
Being an avid DIY'er myself, am inclined to do as much as I can on my own with skilled inputs along the way. This situation is different as another has paid for the install and needs to go back and allow the installer the opportunity to improve the present results.
Hey... we all make mistakes and such from time to time. Give the shop a fair chance to see what they can do, before taking matters into your own hands.
Will hold my peace on this one for now and let's see what the shop can do for your friend first. If that does work out... GREAT! But if still not satified, then other options can be explored.
Swez
PS Thanks ttocks... your perspective is right on!
DreamerL007 on 09/12/2003 00:22:48
Hi guys, almost forgot about this thread, the shop took care of everything, and yes I did come in with a smile on my face and was corteous and pleasant to deal with =) but i appreciate all of your help and suggestions, this is a great place, i look forward to learning a lot from the pages in this forum
Swez on 09/12/2003 13:36:50
So... what did the shop tech do to turn your frown to SMILE?
Am curious what tweaks they made... etc., so we can learn a trick or 2 or confirm what we already understand to be good install practices.
Swez
DreamerL007 on 09/15/2003 18:25:19
He didnt do anything, hehe, its one of those things, its like you show up to the shop and it works. What i think was that the fronts were just so Loud, that we didnt hear the sub, you needed to turn it up considerably louder to begin to hear the sub as it was intended to sound. it was installed clean, we shook the box really hard and rechecked all the connections and everything was clean. So thats the only thing I could conclude was that the fronts were just too loud
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