I already had 1 alpine type r in the 4runner and I had an extra alpine type r 12 laying around so I decided to build a dual chamber sealed box and put them both in my 4runner. I am not sure what amp to get to push them. I can run this setup at either 1 or 4 ohms. Any recommendations? Also, has anyone had any experience with KnuKonceptz wires? The prices are great but is the quality?
diddler
Replies (23)
newB on 04/22/2008 03:00:13
knus products have mixed reviews- but are solid for the $
i would get something 1000-1200 @1ohm
Hifonics makes a 1200w Class D for a good price.
Sundown makes a more expensive but better quality amps- a 1k and 1.5k that that can both push a pair of Rs
Elemental Designs E.d Nine.1 is rated at 12v and really comes through with average charging systems
any reason why your not going vented?
-Drew
swez on 04/22/2008 04:20:22
Have used Knu's for several customer installs and recommended them to many here with very good results so far. They may not be as robust as bigger names, (Monster, Stinger, RF) but for the $$, have no complaints. Streetwires are also a solid brand and pricing is good too. Both Streets and Knu have very low resistance per foot and carry low voltage signals well at longer runs. (Over 10 feet)
Amp... depends on how much you wish to pay. The R series subs are rated at 500 Wrms/ea. They can do a very nice job in small, sealed box designs of 0.85 cf/chamber. The key is clean power from whatever amp you choose. (800-1200 Wrms range)
If you wish for more low end bump, ported/vented chambers will deliver more output in the deep lows. Here, tuning to about 32-36 Hz of the vents is the target. The amp will need a sub-sonic or infrasonic filter if you go ported/vented. Am sure Drew, (newB) can give some enclosure ideas if you ask. He's been doing some very nice designs here of late and why not let him guide you through the steps?
Swez
diddler on 04/22/2008 06:35:27
I have already built the sealed enclosure (.85 cf/chamber). I chose enclosed because I believe they provide a cleaner bass (at least that is how it sounds to me) and I wanted to try and conserve as much of the cargo area as possible. I tend to lean more towards SQs than SPLs. This is my first experience with these woofs. In the past I have always had Eclipse Aluminums.
I was considering Hifonics but have read that they overrate their power. Is this your experience or are their power ratings fairly accurate?
diddler
diddler on 04/22/2008 09:00:45
newB - I am not sure but I believe the Hifonics amp you are refering to is - http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=19580
Again my question is does Hifonics overrate their power? With these subs I do not believe that it will matter that much but If I am please with the proformance of the type r's I am considering upgrading to a single type x at a later date. At that point it would matter a bit more if this amp proforms as advertised. I am fairly new at this hobby (having a blast so far though) so I really have no personal experience with vented boxes. If you have a design recommendation that would fit nicely in the cargo area of a 94 4runner and use as little space as possible I would love to give a crack at building. Complexity is no issue as I am an experienced carpenter and am not worried about clean cuts.
Swez - thanks for the info on knu, I believe I will give them a shot. Do you think I will need to make any changes to the 4runners electrical system running two amps? I have an Eclipse es3422 pushing my components and coaxials. In adding a second amp to push the woofs, do think this will present a significant problem? Should I look into a yellow top? Or will this require more modification?
diddler
newB on 04/22/2008 11:42:57
if you shot me potential dimensions of the area you are willing to fill with the box i will draw something up so you can see it and get a cut sheet.
yes that would be the correct link
Hifonics is really a throw up- IF you give them 14.4v then they tend to do rated +/-100w if voltage is bad they will dip a few hundred under rated. In my opinion they sound great regardless of drop and i have never been disappointed in a hifonics amp. they're not the strongest but they're the best bang for the buck.
similar comparision amps are also-
CRUNCH class D mono amps (associated with hifonics)
and the class D Power Acoustik is supposed to be good bang per buck
you can get good SQ from vented, it just depends on your taste in music and designing the box to achieve a goal for that genre
-Drew
swez on 04/22/2008 17:53:26
That HiFonics amp should be enough to get the job done, but at high bass levels, it will strain your stock electricals with both amps unless you "buffer the sub amp" with a dedicated battery, perhaps a Battery Isolation Kit and the Big 3 upgrade.
That Eclipse amp mentioned, what are the specs on it? (Looked at Eclipse web site and could not not find specs, power ratings and fuse info) Fill in those details and we can get a better handle on what you'll face later. (Got a hyper link?)
Choose your Knu wires and hardware carefully. There are several grades and price/features to each kit. I like the bundled 4 wire RCA set they offer. It all depends on the # of HU output channels available. Like the 1/0 D-block input and #4 and #8 outs they offer too.
Swez
PS Do you know the ALT specs on this 4-Runner?
A. Output @ idle
B. Max output @ ? RPM (2,300 RPM or so)
diddler on 04/22/2008 19:47:34
swez - sorry, just realized I misspelled the amp in my post. It is the ea3422.
The specs are as follows:
4/3/2 Channel Power Amplifier with Channel Flex Crossover plus Subsonic Filter
Features
* 123W × 4 Channel Max. Power Output at 2 Stereo
* 70W × 4 Channel 0.1% THD at 2 Stereo @13.8V (RMS Continuous Power)
* 50W × 4 Channel 0.1% THD at 4 Stereo @13.8V (RMS Continuous Power)
* ChannelFlex Crossover
* Adjustable High-Pass Frequency (50–200Hz, L/R Independent)
* Low-Pass Frequency (90Hz)
* Adjustable Bass-Boost Level (45Hz, 0–9dB, F/R Separate)
* High-Current, High-Speed Output Devices
* High-Efficiency, High-Energy MOSFET Power Supply
* Audiophile Grade Component Selection
* Intelligent 7-Way Discrete Protection Circuitry
* Noise Reduction with Low Distortion & Ultra-Low Negative Feedback
* High-Level Input – Add on Capability
* Epoxy Composite PCB
* 2 Stable Design
It calls for a 50 amp fuse.
My HU is an Alpine IDA-X001 w/3 preamp outs.
Not sure about the ALT specs on the 4runner. I will look into it and report back.
Drew - I will get measurements and post as soon as possible.
What do ya'll think about Alpine Amps? The PDX's seem impressive on paper.
diddler
diddler on 04/22/2008 21:26:41
Drew - the more I think about it the more I am leaning towards the eD Nine1. Do you have personal experience with this amp?
Swez - How bout you? What is your take on them?
diddler
newB on 04/22/2008 23:48:22
i have a friend pushing two RD 12" sonances with his nine.1 and it has pounded hard for him for over a year, and sounds good!
although i have heard that Elemental designs can be a hit or miss with the quality of their products- be smart and it should put out and last a while
-Drew
swez on 04/23/2008 02:54:41
eD has been around a few years and have a lot of fresh talent in their team and some good videos to review if you like, on their website.
Have no personal experience with their products to date, but they seem to stand behind what they sell and many are moving over to their products as an alternative to higher priced Branded name competition. Other than that, am pretty open and neutral to this brand. Don't know anyone who has tried their amps, but that does not mean much. Most amps will do a pretty good job when used as designed.
Swez
PS If you want to get a flavor for this company and their niche, have a good look at their many videos at:
http://www.icixsound.com/iv/search_result.php?search_id=Nine1
diddler on 04/25/2008 07:14:34
I am debating between the eD amp and an alpine PDX-1.1000. Any recommendations to sway my final decision? I will be making the purchase this weekend.
swez on 04/25/2008 15:36:56
The Alpine would be great if you have the 2+2 DVC's version subs. (SWR-1222D's) It's not rated for below 2 ohms and if you have the 4+4 DVC (SWR-1242D's) version, there are only 2 main options:
1. A Class D amp that is 1 ohm stable
2. A Class A/B, 2 channel amp that is bridgable and can deliver about 1,000 Wrms @ 4 ohms
Which subs do you have now?
Swez
diddler on 04/25/2008 19:38:28
The specs on the PDX say that it can deliver 1000w rms into both a 2 ohm and 4 ohm load. All alpine pdx amps state the same watts regardless of 2 ohm or 4 ohm. If this is the case could i not just rewire for a 4 ohm load or do you know their claim to be untrue?
diddler on 04/25/2008 19:47:20
I have type r 1242d
SQLThump on 04/25/2008 19:54:30
This can probably work for you then. A pair of 4 ohm DVC can be ran at 4 ohms, and the PDX can do this with it's digital technology.
On a side note, the PDX is a pretty pricey amp, and has had reliablilty problems with random deaths and spontaniously blowing fuses. Some things to chew when making a finalized amp selection.
diddler on 04/25/2008 19:55:35
swez - here is the link to the PDX-1.1000 amp. Take a look and tell me what you think. I have found this amp elsewhere at a cost not much more than the eD amp. I really think the PDX is the way to go but would like your opinion.
diddler
diddler on 04/25/2008 19:56:14
Forgot to add - http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=PDX-1.1000&lang=en&tab=D
swez on 04/25/2008 20:36:33
Hum, I did look up this amp at Crutchfield and it said 1000 RMS @ 2 ohms but did not state specifically it could deliver same power @ 4 ohms.
After looking at your link, Alpine says 1000 watts @ 2 or 4 ohm loads and that is novel for most class D amps except the JL Slash series and PG's Xenon series.
That being true, you have a winner here if the right price is found. CLAP
Swez
diddler on 04/25/2008 22:10:57
then the decision is made. PDX it is. I have tried to find out what the output of my alt is and can not find it anywhere. How do I test it to see? I am trying to figure out what additional modifications I must make so that I can do it all at once. Also, I decided to stay with the sealed enclosure simply because of the space issue. I am going to build another box though once the amp is here. I am going to incorporate amp shelves into one box. I think it is going to be pretty nice once it is done.
diddler
swez on 04/26/2008 07:00:11
Any good auto parts store can test your ALT right in the parking lot. It would be best to have them test output at idle speeds and also at ~2,300 RPM.
Most OEM ALT's will deliver about 50-60% of max capacity at idle and full capacity above 2,000 RPM. The faster the ALT spins, the more output it can deliver.
After looking it up, this Toyota 4Runner seems to have a 60-70A ALT as stock. (Probably Nippondenso)
http://www2.partstrain.com/store/index.php?Ntt=Alternator&N=1725+11779+4294966971+11921
In your case, a H.O. version that can deliver ~150 A's, (or higher) would be a good choice. As for price, use $1.25 per ampere as a guide for shopping. Try these guys:
http://www.motorcityreman.com/high-amp-alternators.html
Swez
diddler on 04/27/2008 08:22:25
Swez - Before I make this purchase I am considering one other option. What do you think about this combo - Alpine MRP-M1000 amp with (1) Alpine SWX-1243D? I was considering upgrading to the SWX at a later date but I can get both of these for approximately the same price as what the PDX-1.1000 would cost. I know that by adding the second type r I would only be gaining 3 db and losing valuable space. By going back to a single sub setup I could then entertain the idea of a vented enclosure.
diddler
swez on 04/27/2008 11:48:24
This is a tough call as both systems match up very well. If you really want to maintain a small footprint inside this truck, the SWX in a vented box would be the best choice.
When venting, we often pick up about +3dB more deep bass at the tuning frequency. That can be a good thing depending on the type of music one likes most. Here, the vented box will be optimal at 1.8 ft^3. (Internally) Tune to between 32 - 36 Hz., for maximum deep lows.
The MRP-M1000 will draw more current , (~15 more A's) then the PDX, but with a 200 Ampere alternator in the package, that should cover you very well.
In a nutshell, either system is sure to please all but the extreme "Bassheads". (150 dB+ class street beaters) In this case, am estimating you'll get mid to high 130's dB levels with either rig in this smaller SUV.
Swez
diddler on 05/6/2008 14:33:47
Ok.....Went with the PDX-1.1000 & 2 SWR-1242Ds. Box is built (.85 ft3) and all is wired. Sounds good but could use tweaking. Any and all advice or tips on tuning would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all for the guidance so far. This is a work in progress but is coming along nicely. I am searching now for a High Output Alt (around 150 to 170 amps) and am going to do the big three this weekend, though I have not noticed any dimming as it is now unless I have it a loud volume and there is a hard bass hit. Even then it is barelly noticeable. While changing the battery terminal i took a close look at the power and ground running to the battery and it appears as if someone prior to me might have already upgraded them. They are both 4 gauge but I am upgrading them to 1/0 gauge when I replace the alt. Am I headed in the right direction?
Sorry....got another question.....I am considering lining the enclosure with something thin (maybe fiberglass) to insure that it does not ever leak. Is there any recomendations on this? I am also still going around on what to cover it with. I am not sure I want to cover with carpet. What are the cons on vinyl? I think I could find a close match in color.
diddler
Replies (23)
newB on 04/22/2008 03:00:13
knus products have mixed reviews- but are solid for the $
i would get something 1000-1200 @1ohm
Hifonics makes a 1200w Class D for a good price.
Sundown makes a more expensive but better quality amps- a 1k and 1.5k that that can both push a pair of Rs
Elemental Designs E.d Nine.1 is rated at 12v and really comes through with average charging systems
any reason why your not going vented?
-Drew
swez on 04/22/2008 04:20:22
Have used Knu's for several customer installs and recommended them to many here with very good results so far. They may not be as robust as bigger names, (Monster, Stinger, RF) but for the $$, have no complaints. Streetwires are also a solid brand and pricing is good too. Both Streets and Knu have very low resistance per foot and carry low voltage signals well at longer runs. (Over 10 feet)
Amp... depends on how much you wish to pay. The R series subs are rated at 500 Wrms/ea. They can do a very nice job in small, sealed box designs of 0.85 cf/chamber. The key is clean power from whatever amp you choose. (800-1200 Wrms range)
If you wish for more low end bump, ported/vented chambers will deliver more output in the deep lows. Here, tuning to about 32-36 Hz of the vents is the target. The amp will need a sub-sonic or infrasonic filter if you go ported/vented. Am sure Drew, (newB) can give some enclosure ideas if you ask. He's been doing some very nice designs here of late and why not let him guide you through the steps?
Swez
diddler on 04/22/2008 06:35:27
I have already built the sealed enclosure (.85 cf/chamber). I chose enclosed because I believe they provide a cleaner bass (at least that is how it sounds to me) and I wanted to try and conserve as much of the cargo area as possible. I tend to lean more towards SQs than SPLs. This is my first experience with these woofs. In the past I have always had Eclipse Aluminums.
I was considering Hifonics but have read that they overrate their power. Is this your experience or are their power ratings fairly accurate?
diddler
diddler on 04/22/2008 09:00:45
newB - I am not sure but I believe the Hifonics amp you are refering to is - http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=19580
Again my question is does Hifonics overrate their power? With these subs I do not believe that it will matter that much but If I am please with the proformance of the type r's I am considering upgrading to a single type x at a later date. At that point it would matter a bit more if this amp proforms as advertised. I am fairly new at this hobby (having a blast so far though) so I really have no personal experience with vented boxes. If you have a design recommendation that would fit nicely in the cargo area of a 94 4runner and use as little space as possible I would love to give a crack at building. Complexity is no issue as I am an experienced carpenter and am not worried about clean cuts.
Swez - thanks for the info on knu, I believe I will give them a shot. Do you think I will need to make any changes to the 4runners electrical system running two amps? I have an Eclipse es3422 pushing my components and coaxials. In adding a second amp to push the woofs, do think this will present a significant problem? Should I look into a yellow top? Or will this require more modification?
diddler
newB on 04/22/2008 11:42:57
if you shot me potential dimensions of the area you are willing to fill with the box i will draw something up so you can see it and get a cut sheet.
yes that would be the correct link
Hifonics is really a throw up- IF you give them 14.4v then they tend to do rated +/-100w if voltage is bad they will dip a few hundred under rated. In my opinion they sound great regardless of drop and i have never been disappointed in a hifonics amp. they're not the strongest but they're the best bang for the buck.
similar comparision amps are also-
CRUNCH class D mono amps (associated with hifonics)
and the class D Power Acoustik is supposed to be good bang per buck
you can get good SQ from vented, it just depends on your taste in music and designing the box to achieve a goal for that genre
-Drew
swez on 04/22/2008 17:53:26
That HiFonics amp should be enough to get the job done, but at high bass levels, it will strain your stock electricals with both amps unless you "buffer the sub amp" with a dedicated battery, perhaps a Battery Isolation Kit and the Big 3 upgrade.
That Eclipse amp mentioned, what are the specs on it? (Looked at Eclipse web site and could not not find specs, power ratings and fuse info) Fill in those details and we can get a better handle on what you'll face later. (Got a hyper link?)
Choose your Knu wires and hardware carefully. There are several grades and price/features to each kit. I like the bundled 4 wire RCA set they offer. It all depends on the # of HU output channels available. Like the 1/0 D-block input and #4 and #8 outs they offer too.
Swez
PS Do you know the ALT specs on this 4-Runner?
A. Output @ idle
B. Max output @ ? RPM (2,300 RPM or so)
diddler on 04/22/2008 19:47:34
swez - sorry, just realized I misspelled the amp in my post. It is the ea3422.
The specs are as follows:
4/3/2 Channel Power Amplifier with Channel Flex Crossover plus Subsonic Filter
Features
* 123W × 4 Channel Max. Power Output at 2 Stereo
* 70W × 4 Channel 0.1% THD at 2 Stereo @13.8V (RMS Continuous Power)
* 50W × 4 Channel 0.1% THD at 4 Stereo @13.8V (RMS Continuous Power)
* ChannelFlex Crossover
* Adjustable High-Pass Frequency (50–200Hz, L/R Independent)
* Low-Pass Frequency (90Hz)
* Adjustable Bass-Boost Level (45Hz, 0–9dB, F/R Separate)
* High-Current, High-Speed Output Devices
* High-Efficiency, High-Energy MOSFET Power Supply
* Audiophile Grade Component Selection
* Intelligent 7-Way Discrete Protection Circuitry
* Noise Reduction with Low Distortion & Ultra-Low Negative Feedback
* High-Level Input – Add on Capability
* Epoxy Composite PCB
* 2 Stable Design
It calls for a 50 amp fuse.
My HU is an Alpine IDA-X001 w/3 preamp outs.
Not sure about the ALT specs on the 4runner. I will look into it and report back.
Drew - I will get measurements and post as soon as possible.
What do ya'll think about Alpine Amps? The PDX's seem impressive on paper.
diddler
diddler on 04/22/2008 21:26:41
Drew - the more I think about it the more I am leaning towards the eD Nine1. Do you have personal experience with this amp?
Swez - How bout you? What is your take on them?
diddler
newB on 04/22/2008 23:48:22
i have a friend pushing two RD 12" sonances with his nine.1 and it has pounded hard for him for over a year, and sounds good!
although i have heard that Elemental designs can be a hit or miss with the quality of their products- be smart and it should put out and last a while
-Drew
swez on 04/23/2008 02:54:41
eD has been around a few years and have a lot of fresh talent in their team and some good videos to review if you like, on their website.
Have no personal experience with their products to date, but they seem to stand behind what they sell and many are moving over to their products as an alternative to higher priced Branded name competition. Other than that, am pretty open and neutral to this brand. Don't know anyone who has tried their amps, but that does not mean much. Most amps will do a pretty good job when used as designed.
Swez
PS If you want to get a flavor for this company and their niche, have a good look at their many videos at:
http://www.icixsound.com/iv/search_result.php?search_id=Nine1
diddler on 04/25/2008 07:14:34
I am debating between the eD amp and an alpine PDX-1.1000. Any recommendations to sway my final decision? I will be making the purchase this weekend.
swez on 04/25/2008 15:36:56
The Alpine would be great if you have the 2+2 DVC's version subs. (SWR-1222D's) It's not rated for below 2 ohms and if you have the 4+4 DVC (SWR-1242D's) version, there are only 2 main options:
1. A Class D amp that is 1 ohm stable
2. A Class A/B, 2 channel amp that is bridgable and can deliver about 1,000 Wrms @ 4 ohms
Which subs do you have now?
Swez
diddler on 04/25/2008 19:38:28
The specs on the PDX say that it can deliver 1000w rms into both a 2 ohm and 4 ohm load. All alpine pdx amps state the same watts regardless of 2 ohm or 4 ohm. If this is the case could i not just rewire for a 4 ohm load or do you know their claim to be untrue?
diddler on 04/25/2008 19:47:20
I have type r 1242d
SQLThump on 04/25/2008 19:54:30
This can probably work for you then. A pair of 4 ohm DVC can be ran at 4 ohms, and the PDX can do this with it's digital technology.
On a side note, the PDX is a pretty pricey amp, and has had reliablilty problems with random deaths and spontaniously blowing fuses. Some things to chew when making a finalized amp selection.
diddler on 04/25/2008 19:55:35
swez - here is the link to the PDX-1.1000 amp. Take a look and tell me what you think. I have found this amp elsewhere at a cost not much more than the eD amp. I really think the PDX is the way to go but would like your opinion.
diddler
diddler on 04/25/2008 19:56:14
Forgot to add - http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=PDX-1.1000&lang=en&tab=D
swez on 04/25/2008 20:36:33
Hum, I did look up this amp at Crutchfield and it said 1000 RMS @ 2 ohms but did not state specifically it could deliver same power @ 4 ohms.
After looking at your link, Alpine says 1000 watts @ 2 or 4 ohm loads and that is novel for most class D amps except the JL Slash series and PG's Xenon series.
That being true, you have a winner here if the right price is found. CLAP
Swez
diddler on 04/25/2008 22:10:57
then the decision is made. PDX it is. I have tried to find out what the output of my alt is and can not find it anywhere. How do I test it to see? I am trying to figure out what additional modifications I must make so that I can do it all at once. Also, I decided to stay with the sealed enclosure simply because of the space issue. I am going to build another box though once the amp is here. I am going to incorporate amp shelves into one box. I think it is going to be pretty nice once it is done.
diddler
swez on 04/26/2008 07:00:11
Any good auto parts store can test your ALT right in the parking lot. It would be best to have them test output at idle speeds and also at ~2,300 RPM.
Most OEM ALT's will deliver about 50-60% of max capacity at idle and full capacity above 2,000 RPM. The faster the ALT spins, the more output it can deliver.
After looking it up, this Toyota 4Runner seems to have a 60-70A ALT as stock. (Probably Nippondenso)
http://www2.partstrain.com/store/index.php?Ntt=Alternator&N=1725+11779+4294966971+11921
In your case, a H.O. version that can deliver ~150 A's, (or higher) would be a good choice. As for price, use $1.25 per ampere as a guide for shopping. Try these guys:
http://www.motorcityreman.com/high-amp-alternators.html
Swez
diddler on 04/27/2008 08:22:25
Swez - Before I make this purchase I am considering one other option. What do you think about this combo - Alpine MRP-M1000 amp with (1) Alpine SWX-1243D? I was considering upgrading to the SWX at a later date but I can get both of these for approximately the same price as what the PDX-1.1000 would cost. I know that by adding the second type r I would only be gaining 3 db and losing valuable space. By going back to a single sub setup I could then entertain the idea of a vented enclosure.
diddler
swez on 04/27/2008 11:48:24
This is a tough call as both systems match up very well. If you really want to maintain a small footprint inside this truck, the SWX in a vented box would be the best choice.
When venting, we often pick up about +3dB more deep bass at the tuning frequency. That can be a good thing depending on the type of music one likes most. Here, the vented box will be optimal at 1.8 ft^3. (Internally) Tune to between 32 - 36 Hz., for maximum deep lows.
The MRP-M1000 will draw more current , (~15 more A's) then the PDX, but with a 200 Ampere alternator in the package, that should cover you very well.
In a nutshell, either system is sure to please all but the extreme "Bassheads". (150 dB+ class street beaters) In this case, am estimating you'll get mid to high 130's dB levels with either rig in this smaller SUV.
Swez
diddler on 05/6/2008 14:33:47
Ok.....Went with the PDX-1.1000 & 2 SWR-1242Ds. Box is built (.85 ft3) and all is wired. Sounds good but could use tweaking. Any and all advice or tips on tuning would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all for the guidance so far. This is a work in progress but is coming along nicely. I am searching now for a High Output Alt (around 150 to 170 amps) and am going to do the big three this weekend, though I have not noticed any dimming as it is now unless I have it a loud volume and there is a hard bass hit. Even then it is barelly noticeable. While changing the battery terminal i took a close look at the power and ground running to the battery and it appears as if someone prior to me might have already upgraded them. They are both 4 gauge but I am upgrading them to 1/0 gauge when I replace the alt. Am I headed in the right direction?
Sorry....got another question.....I am considering lining the enclosure with something thin (maybe fiberglass) to insure that it does not ever leak. Is there any recomendations on this? I am also still going around on what to cover it with. I am not sure I want to cover with carpet. What are the cons on vinyl? I think I could find a close match in color.
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