I finally completed my installation. My next step is to adjust the overall sound. After reading a couple of guides I set my receiver to flat eq, receiver subwoofer volume to 0, and receiver loudness off. At this point my system sounded horrible with little to no bass at all. I figured ok here is where I adjust the amplifier gain to my sub and everything sounds great...right? I started at the lowest gain setting and then began turning it up and up and.... nothing.... I could barely even tell any change was made at all. The only way for me to get the bass to sound good is to turn loudness on the reciever on, adjust the reciever subwoofer setting to 6 out of 8 and have the gain set to 3/4 of full on my amp. Something seems like it is wrong. Of course I can leave my system setup with the settings that sound good to me but I would like to understand why following the instructions for good sound quality and gain adjustment ends up failing for me.
Here are the specs:
1999 Pontiac Grand Prix Sedan
JVC KD-G830
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9mFEvrcSBvS/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?I=105kdg830&search=JVC+KDg830
Polk Audio db5251 5 1/4"'s Components installed in the front doors
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=410&i=107DB5251&tp=106
Polk Audio db690 6"x9"'s in the rear deck
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9mFEvrcSBvS/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?I=107DB690&search=Polk+db690
SAS Bazooka Sub 8" - It's old (late 90's) so there are no links that I can find and there is no model # on it. The sub is very simple and only has connections for two speaker wires on the back no other switches wiring or adjustments.
Profile California A200 xl 200 Watt Amp - (also late 90's), set up in bridged mode for the sub. Gain adjustment is a turnable knob.
Replies (6)
swez on 03/29/2008 00:00:39
This HU is controlling gain output via the subwoofer level control menu. At "0", you'll get very little bass output to the amp and sub and just hear the main speakers. As you adjust the sub output levels on the HU, you'll have bass signals going to the amplifier and sub and can adjust amp gain to match your bass preferences.
In a nutshell, you have done thhe general setup process correctly for this HU. Now, it is just a case of fine tuning as needed. See these notes from Crutchfield:
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=105KDG830&search=JVC+KDg830&tp=5684&tab=detailed_info
Swez
wwatty on 03/29/2008 01:20:18
So basically the answer is that I have to set the HU subwoofer setting higher than "0" to get my preferred results and that would be the correct way to do it? With the amp gain at 3/4 of the way to maximum and the HU Subwoofer setting at "6" out of a maximum "8" it sounds right to me but it just seemed like "6" was a pretty high setting mixed with the almost maximum amp gain. At the end of the day it comes down to what sounds right but I just want to make sure I am not damaging the HU, Amp or Sub.
swez on 03/29/2008 09:21:19
Think of the HU's subwoofer output as a separate preamp that you can control from the driver's seat. Setting it at "5-6" is a good place to start as you now have bass signals going to the outboard amplifier that is powering your subwoofer. (When set at "0", there is no sub output to fed the amp)
Also, setting the amp gain between 1/2-3/4 is a good initial strategy as well. Here, one can control more or less bass from the HU as needed from the HU. If you note the bass is weak on some music, kick up the preamp number until it sounds clean and balanced with the mid/highs. If you note very strong bass or the bass gets sloppy and rough sounding, back off on the HU sub out setting until it sounds smooth and clean again.
This technique is called "gain riding". Audio Engineers that do live sound and recording studio work use this method to kick up or back down a given channel/track while mixing. You have the same tool available in this HU, but it's limited to bass output control.
Just use common sense as you experiment with this feature. If the woofer starts to pop or sound muddy and buzzy, back down on the HU preamp setting until it sounds full and clean.
Swez
wwatty on 03/29/2008 13:15:56
Once again swez, sound advice.
-Thanks
swez on 03/30/2008 04:08:31
Sure... glad to help out and feel free to experiment a little as you go. The key parameters to focus in on are:
1. HU Sub output levels
2. Loudness contour levels
3. Amp gain settings
4. Sub amp crossover settings
Since this is an 8" woofer, your Crossover settings on the amp will be between 60-120 Hz. (In most cases, amp LP settings of 80-100 Hz., should be most satisfactory) Other frequencies above this are generally managed by the F/R speakers.
Feel free to experiment as needed. If you get stuck, give CK a shout and we can help as needed.
Swez
Ash on 03/30/2008 09:02:38
That may work for a while, but it sounds like your in need of a subwoofer revamp. The smaller Bazooka tubes generally sound better in small hatchbacks and trucks where they can load up better. Essentially they are nothing more than a ported box and being such aren't that great in vehicles with trunks unless they're vented straight through the cab or the 10" & 12" models are used. Also they need to be loaded (facing) into a corner to get the maximum output as that is how they are designed to play.
The California series were always a decent budget amp with good power. The older series may be limited on input voltage, but that would put you on the other side of the spectrum when adjusting gain. IE you would probably have to turn the gain down to it's lower end since the signal would be strong for it.
Perhaps you may be able to run a single 150-200 rms 10" or 12" and get better results from more cone area. The larger cone area will load better in that mid-size sedan and be more efficient in the lower frequencies. There are plenty of good inexpensive subs that should fit your application.
Here are the specs:
1999 Pontiac Grand Prix Sedan
JVC KD-G830
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9mFEvrcSBvS/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?I=105kdg830&search=JVC+KDg830
Polk Audio db5251 5 1/4"'s Components installed in the front doors
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=410&i=107DB5251&tp=106
Polk Audio db690 6"x9"'s in the rear deck
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9mFEvrcSBvS/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?I=107DB690&search=Polk+db690
SAS Bazooka Sub 8" - It's old (late 90's) so there are no links that I can find and there is no model # on it. The sub is very simple and only has connections for two speaker wires on the back no other switches wiring or adjustments.
Profile California A200 xl 200 Watt Amp - (also late 90's), set up in bridged mode for the sub. Gain adjustment is a turnable knob.
Replies (6)
swez on 03/29/2008 00:00:39
This HU is controlling gain output via the subwoofer level control menu. At "0", you'll get very little bass output to the amp and sub and just hear the main speakers. As you adjust the sub output levels on the HU, you'll have bass signals going to the amplifier and sub and can adjust amp gain to match your bass preferences.
In a nutshell, you have done thhe general setup process correctly for this HU. Now, it is just a case of fine tuning as needed. See these notes from Crutchfield:
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=105KDG830&search=JVC+KDg830&tp=5684&tab=detailed_info
Swez
wwatty on 03/29/2008 01:20:18
So basically the answer is that I have to set the HU subwoofer setting higher than "0" to get my preferred results and that would be the correct way to do it? With the amp gain at 3/4 of the way to maximum and the HU Subwoofer setting at "6" out of a maximum "8" it sounds right to me but it just seemed like "6" was a pretty high setting mixed with the almost maximum amp gain. At the end of the day it comes down to what sounds right but I just want to make sure I am not damaging the HU, Amp or Sub.
swez on 03/29/2008 09:21:19
Think of the HU's subwoofer output as a separate preamp that you can control from the driver's seat. Setting it at "5-6" is a good place to start as you now have bass signals going to the outboard amplifier that is powering your subwoofer. (When set at "0", there is no sub output to fed the amp)
Also, setting the amp gain between 1/2-3/4 is a good initial strategy as well. Here, one can control more or less bass from the HU as needed from the HU. If you note the bass is weak on some music, kick up the preamp number until it sounds clean and balanced with the mid/highs. If you note very strong bass or the bass gets sloppy and rough sounding, back off on the HU sub out setting until it sounds smooth and clean again.
This technique is called "gain riding". Audio Engineers that do live sound and recording studio work use this method to kick up or back down a given channel/track while mixing. You have the same tool available in this HU, but it's limited to bass output control.
Just use common sense as you experiment with this feature. If the woofer starts to pop or sound muddy and buzzy, back down on the HU preamp setting until it sounds full and clean.
Swez
wwatty on 03/29/2008 13:15:56
Once again swez, sound advice.
-Thanks
swez on 03/30/2008 04:08:31
Sure... glad to help out and feel free to experiment a little as you go. The key parameters to focus in on are:
1. HU Sub output levels
2. Loudness contour levels
3. Amp gain settings
4. Sub amp crossover settings
Since this is an 8" woofer, your Crossover settings on the amp will be between 60-120 Hz. (In most cases, amp LP settings of 80-100 Hz., should be most satisfactory) Other frequencies above this are generally managed by the F/R speakers.
Feel free to experiment as needed. If you get stuck, give CK a shout and we can help as needed.
Swez
Ash on 03/30/2008 09:02:38
That may work for a while, but it sounds like your in need of a subwoofer revamp. The smaller Bazooka tubes generally sound better in small hatchbacks and trucks where they can load up better. Essentially they are nothing more than a ported box and being such aren't that great in vehicles with trunks unless they're vented straight through the cab or the 10" & 12" models are used. Also they need to be loaded (facing) into a corner to get the maximum output as that is how they are designed to play.
The California series were always a decent budget amp with good power. The older series may be limited on input voltage, but that would put you on the other side of the spectrum when adjusting gain. IE you would probably have to turn the gain down to it's lower end since the signal would be strong for it.
Perhaps you may be able to run a single 150-200 rms 10" or 12" and get better results from more cone area. The larger cone area will load better in that mid-size sedan and be more efficient in the lower frequencies. There are plenty of good inexpensive subs that should fit your application.
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