I just did a tally of all the major forums and was astonished to find that most all of them died off!!!
Even spring break isn't the reason as there's a pattern of over a 3months of little activity.
Could it be that we've debunked all the myths?
Could it be that when you google a problem it leads to solutiosn?
Heck, even the competitor sites are broadcasting a cricket chorus
USFLAG
Replies (40)
Ash on 03/18/2008 15:11:34
I've been wondering for a while now what is contributing to demise of several aspects of this hobby. Could be better integration in newer vehicles, fear of recession resulting in less money spent for playtime, less do-it-yourselfers out there, etc.
Even with me, I haven't been fooling around with much, though I still have the love. Just seems like no one is really needing work done or they rather just settle with the setup they already have despite if it's bad.
Intriguing......
cplkittle on 03/18/2008 15:21:45
I spend some time on Yahoo answers, there seems to be a steady stream of "which sub is better", or "what kind of radio should I get"
Great topics for a long post, but in Y! answers, you only get one reply per person. I try to convert as many as I can. I met Raghu there, but he is the only one that has dropped by.
MrBrownstone on 03/19/2008 14:08:30
When you get older, you outgrow this gig. except for me, swez & the bald installer...we just get ...well, we ain't goin no where.
What isn't happening is young people entering the mix. I've noticed that kids aren't rushing to get their driver's licenses at age 15/16. That 2 year period is the incubation period for car audio as you have your own ride AND the need to do something about that pathetic 8 yr old factory stereo.....ahh...the crack starts early.
College is where you get to make all of your own decisions, hence, when you have $2300 in hardware on your dorm room desk deciding how to install all of it, noone second guesses our decisions.
We need to take a page out of old Brown & Bigelow & phillip Morris' playbook. That, or I wonder if this industry is a goner?
PS $3.50 gas isn't helping either. I know it sounds corny, but I remember when gas was $1.50a gallon...2001.
Heck, I remember when it was $1.97 in 2005. That probably has some to do with it.
ttocs on 03/19/2008 15:29:43
I have noticed that it has been slowing down, not sure why. I actually have been making more progress then ever on the stang and only have a couple of cover panels to finish before it is complete.
bluecat1 on 03/19/2008 16:09:19
Hey guys! It's funny your should mention the younger generation being into or lack of the whole audio thing. My 2 sons have absolutely no interest in this stuff. They rather drive with the radio off which is really weird to me. You mention gas prices. I remember when gas was .27c a gallon. That was in the late 70's. As far as my desire go's. I could look at gear set ups all day long and put together different designs to what I would do. I never get tired of this stuff!
MrBrownstone on 03/19/2008 18:48:14
Ahhhhhh Crap!
Just what I figured, Car Audio is not on VH1!!!
Now it's just me & us 'old farts' now. Why can't chicks get into stereos?
I blame the internet cellphones with video & mp3 capability. Heck, I have a cell phone that was designed by NASA. Course, I use it to capture video of random stuff, send pictures of the thermometer saying 84F in February and basically, I don't even know why I have one this sofisticated as I don't use it for a phone.
although I have send 1973 text messages so far this year. That's about it.
newB on 03/19/2008 18:57:04
i'm 19 and my girlfriend is 18, she is begging for a 1.6cuft @37hz single 10 box for the back of her extended cab. also wants to upgrade HU+interiors blah blah blah the list goes on.
but she is PRO bass and loves it
-Drew
ttocs on 03/20/2008 01:43:51
so your girl "is beggin" for something bigger then an 8" huh? You can give her my number.... I wouldn't advertise that if I were you but I have never had that problem so I wouldn't know.
How about the ipod revolution creating this effect? What good is a high quality set up if you only play mp3's? Everytime I look around I see somebody with their ipod style headphones on as if they could not imagine walking into the store with out it? I laughed really hard about a month ago when I saw a couple out enjoying each others company on a beautifull day, both with headphones on.......
I also laughed when last month I was looking for tech flex locally to finish the speaker wiring I wanted to run. I live in the 5th biggest city in the us(pa=ho=nix) surely there is a place in town that sells it. I had to do some searching to find a small, high end mom and pop shop that worked by appointment. I called them and told them I felt silly scheduling an appointment for maybe $50 worth of tech flex but he explained that it was because it was ran by him and his brother and they just wanted to make sure that somebody would be there to see me. When I made it in the store my eye was immediatly caught by a REALLY smooth lookin tube amp that was right at eye level as I walked in. It was a work of art man, brushed finish and blue led accents and of course 4 tubes(6 watt push-pull) dimly lit sticking out of the top. and the center piece, mounted in the middle of this brushed finished, beautifully blue lit 6 watt audiophile tube amp WAS NONE OTHER THAN A DAMN IPOD CRADLE........ TUBE AMP AND IPOD BELONG IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS MUCH AS TEETH AND PENIS(sorry to curse swez!)!
newB on 03/20/2008 02:16:09
you cant FEEL headphones
i'd rather sit in 140+ <70hz than 100db at full range ipod quality.
those mess up my hearing so fast
-Drew
swez on 03/20/2008 03:23:59
The troops are getting bored and restless I see?
Ttocs... go to your room and say 5 Hail Mary's, 4 Our Fathers and recite the stations of the cross. After that, all sins will be absolved. LOL
Bluecat1... welcome to our little corner of the world. Good to see some older cats in the game here again. Good to have some new/older blood in the house again.
Ehhem, was pumping gas at 28 cents a gallon in 1973-74 after school let out. Almost got fired one night when the District Mgr almost caught us pumping "Ethel'. We ran out of regular an hour earlier and the price was only 3 cents more.
Back then, we made 4 cents a gallon and even had a 4 cent discount pump for commercial vehicles. Good ol Tulsa Oil Company...a full service station too. (Check oil, wash windows, pump gas and add fluids as needed)
Mr B... good to see you come back to the roost again for some laughs and stir up the pot. Keep stirring pal... we're plenty bored right now.
Swez COFFEE
ttocs on 03/20/2008 04:58:33
I try not to tell anyone to go to hail, mary included.....
I am suprised at you swez...
jamesp on 03/20/2008 09:23:57
The first gas that I pumped into my own car, a 71 Super Beetle, was 27¢ a gallon. A week later there was a local gas war and it dropped to 17¢. I was mad because I had wasted over a dollar by filling it up the day I brought it home from the dealership.
The out the door price on the "loaded" bug was $2378.00. My 16 year old hands were shaking as I signed the bank note. I put down $478.00 and financed $1900.00. High finance. Funny that I dont remember any of the details of later vehicle purchases. Times sure have changed. I have paid more for a vehicle than my first house and 6 acres of land cost.
My son, give me a couple of Hail Marys and a half dozen Our Fahdders and call it good.
bluecat1 on 03/20/2008 10:27:34
swez,
Thank you for welcoming me to the nest. It's kind of lonely when you have no one to play with or talk too about the good old days. I tell my kids about the days of old and they look at me as if I have three heads. I worked at this little mobil station back in the early 70's when self service was insult to the attendent. Back then cars were so easy to work on. You had a simple engine that it didn't take a rocket sientist to work on. Cassette players was the big thing and musle cars were the attraction to the ladies. You could hang on the corner with your friends, drink some beers and have a good time. Try doing that today and you get pinched for loitering, disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace and public drinking. What has this world come too. Now I drive around in a family van, listen to music I can understand the words to and watch a new generation conform to ipods, computers on cell phones and what ever the car manufacturers push out the door.
MrBrownstone on 03/20/2008 17:18:11
Hey Swez
I don't get to the Old folks Home much, so sorry I haven't visited you much. END RANT
I was just marveling at a few of the things I used to do, and to comemorate a historic day when I filed for my bus license, I got a little sentimental and looked up the websites that used to be in operation.
Only a few left now, NONE of them with the original ownership. I went to all the forums, and only termpro (dbDrag), elite & this one are active...although all are a fraction of their heyday.
I'm just curious if the internet didn't assist in the degredation of the industry after the economic shutdown. Granted, all 'optional' equipment has taken an beating since 2000...still, I'm a little amazed that it was so severe.
I mean, c'mon, they're college kids. They have the most disposable income in all the age brackets...even vs seniors. Yet, somehow, I guess maybe it's over. No more high end equipment. Just a better than average factory, mp3s (which sound poor), and car audio going the way of the 8 track.
Hey, at least noone is asking about which capacitor is the best one on the market anymore!
USFLAG
newB on 03/20/2008 19:34:16
hahahaha
idk what college your at/been to that has the most disposable income but I'm digging for food and gas money!!!
kids i know are in one of two situations-
first, mommy and daddy drop them an 80s honda or 90s coupe and they dont want to put any money into it looking/sounding decent
OR
second, mommy and daddy give them 03 mustang GTs (friend of mine, and he is 16) and he would rather do body/muffler/engine mods than enjoying his drive with clean sound.
@_@
i'm on 7 different forums, NOT Caraudio.com because they are.... not my style...
8 if you include walts recently established Myspace.com/clubknowlege group (dont quote me on that URL i'm just taking it off the top of my head)
-Drew
SQLThump on 03/20/2008 20:47:16
A lot of these are agreat observations of why car audio and related forums are in decline.
I am also with Drew on kids and cars nowadays for the most part, but I have a few freinds who the only reason they don't have loud cldean sound in the car is because they don't have a car, and can't afford one, or are dirt poor rolling in something not too unlike the Bucket, and can't afford for me to peice them together a dirt poor rig.
Sales at my buddies "CarToys" shop has taken a major hit in the last year, with little signs of picking up. Even his cell phones are selling poorly right now.
Personally I think the unfortunate car audio downturn is caused by reasons in this order
Econonomic problems, fewer jobs available, retarted gas prices.
The near impossibility of intergrating aftermarket head units with many of today's new cars.
A combination of noise ordinance laws, and hoodjackers giving enthusiasts a hard time
Fewer people shaking the asphalt, making other people want to shake the asphalt harder
Major losses in innovation and interest that was associated with car audio, even just a few years ago
The huge amount of af junk gear and BS myths finding their way into the hands of mobile electronics rookies.
Fewer places to buy non-junk gear from, and even fewer that are honest and worth a crap
These are my main hunches to why we are in a slump. Maybe we need more advertising for new products, and the joy and sportingness the hobby provides. That, and the Ipod/cellphone craze that everybody has mentioned. Young dudes are spending there loose cash on different, lamer things like a new cellphone every 3 months, or a PS3, or things of that nature. I used to know people who would buy a new system every few months just for the fun of it, and now I know nobody like this besides myself and those on CK. My own sister would rather listen to her Ipod or PDA while driving than have me hook up a CD player she already has purchased free of installation charge. Never felt such a desire to strangle my own flesh and blood...........
Drew, hit me up with a link for the Myspace group! I'll join!
newB on 03/20/2008 21:27:32
http://groups.myspace.com/cknet
and their cross promotion
http://groups.myspace.com/CarAudioRespek
i'm on both forums, look for my A3 thread in respek
-Drew
SQLThump on 03/20/2008 22:00:25
Word man, I joined them both.......dont mind my profile though......not to be taken at all seroiusly........
newB on 03/21/2008 00:06:23
no prob. dont be a stranger! (all of you)
i support all audio forums!!!
-Drew
Ash on 03/21/2008 03:34:38
Well, one thing is for sure, the price of decent gear hasn't gone down from any of these reasons. Heck, even my favorite place to shop, Partexpress, has increased prices a bit. In rough times that surely doesn't help at all. What it has done is motivate me to start getting rid of excess gear and concentrate on improving my own setup.
This tax season was a decent one for me. Yet, with all the usual sprees that occur around this time of year I have yet to see. Still see people buying newer rides but not doing anything with them. I used to get asked all the time on what to use. Now all they want to talk about is paying their car note on time.
Perhaps I shall have to come up with cheap rigs that integrate easily and sound decent. That will require the testing some of the "el cheapo" stuff out there to separate the "okay" from the bad. It's a shame!
MrBrownstone on 03/21/2008 12:24:59
It's like the 'community' broke up or something.
I remember when www.carsound.com had everybody contributing. There were competing car audio magazines...now I think there might still be one...but I haven't bought one in years because you don't see them on stands anymore & I never subscribe to stuff.
I do in part blame the economy, but the auto manufacturers making it supremely difficult to install aftermarket parts is a strong contributing factor.
Before, you unscrewed or snapped off the panel & voila`!! you had instant access. Now, with those stupid double din faces, those moronic climate control systems, you have to get converter brackets just to hold the thing in there.
PS concerning college & HS kids having the most discretionary money, they do. They don't have house or car payments. Few have kids, not worried about contributing to their retirement accounts. For every dollar made, they have the most choice in how it is spent...hence the word discretionary.
PPS I see hundreds of college pukes (95% dudes) playing poker & telling each other how they're broke after losing to a bad beat. I think POKER is the craze where all the money must be going. That, & I blame the Terrrrrrrr.
Ash on 03/21/2008 21:56:05
I have came to the conclusion a while back when experimenting with budget gear that it winds up being an age old adage:
"If you can't beat em', join em'!"
What I mean by that is apparently people aren't willing to pay for quality stuff anymore, at least the majority isn't. Even when they are, they're not getting the stuff that we used to obtain back in the days. All have admitted that quite a few of the major players have drop the ball. Alpine, Rockford, Sony, Phoenix Gold, Kicker, and Lanzar to name a few just aren't what they used to be. Instead of pining over this, perhaps it's time to turn to new sources, new ideas (or old ones), different ways to beat the sytem.
Bose, for example uses the cheapest of drivers, yet they keep winning people over. Could it be that they have realized something that we don't like to admit? The majority of people don't know good sound when they hear it. Let's face it, the type of people here are what I would call neo-audiophiles. True enough there are guys here that have keen insights, exquisite tastes, and a true passion for the art, I mean, really know their stuff. But look at what the majority of posts in the past few years have been; people trying to make do with the very little that they have or simply not wanting to go the extra mile or even inch. Usually it's the off brands or used good brand gear that they turn to.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in high quality and paying for it somewhat, but you're going to have a hard time convincing that to someone who thinks his stock bose is the best in the world and may not be able to see too far past adding some more bass. Coming up with similar setups, integration packages, or perhaps a step up or two in drivers wouldn't hurt, as it's easy to see they will settle with that. Instead of ripping out a whole stock stereo, maybe finding adequate replacements where needed may be an important key. Ever seen some of the stock replacement prices?
Example:
A buddy of mine who owns a late model tahoe with a bose system with a 8" sub in the rear quarter panel recently had trouble if you remember the post. He only wanted a replacement which was impossible to find unless paying for an overly expensive unit from the dealer, so I went to work. Using up to date test gear, I was able enough to pull the parameters off the sub to see how bose was actually configuring it. After a long search I found a match suitable to the orignal's performance. With enough money he could've had a little better, but bare in mind he was dang near broke. Right now he is as happy as a hog wallowing in slop because all he wanted is it to work again. I fulfilled that for him and now he thinks I'm some kind of audio celebrity. Won him over for future upgrades when he needs at least he says.
To me it's not good enough, but then I have to remind myself of my tastes and how most don't or won't have that aspect. The main point is that he is satisfied.
See where I'm going? I know I'll probably chastised, but what other choice did I have..... If that's all I can get to "keep me in the game", I'll take it.
Making sense or am I'm just rambling?
newB on 03/21/2008 22:21:36
rambling.
GRIN J/K
people just dont care about quality sound!!
if i had extra $ i would love to do a nice 3way comp set up front with 8" 5.25 and tweet, giving me the chance to learn more about crossovers
i cant say for the general audio community, i deal mostly with High School students working 10-15hrs a week at minimum wage.
-Drew
Ash on 03/21/2008 23:59:48
Rambling, then I might have had too much french brandy before writing this. It is spring break you know, gimme a break! GRIN
I work in a plant as a technician/group leader. The few remaining from back when the plant was just starting out have the know how of course. Yet, the young bucks (19 the youngest!) that are in there now don't care too much to learn. All they want is a paycheck to party with. They don't even realize how good they have it making $11 per hour @40-50 hours a week just as a temp.
Back when I started out around 25, I was only pulling about 8 smackers full-time and was proud to able to do for my family & myself. Of course you're talking about 12 years ago......
It's not that they really have to be able to discern quality, it's all about getting your money's worth. They don't care about putting back for hard times or anything of the liike. Heck, just thursday when I was telling a few of the young bunch on the job about paying all their bills with the first half of the month's pay and then putting the second portion straight in savings (except for menial things), they looked at me as if I was Einstein. Maybe not to that extreme, but you could tell it hadn't crossed their mind to do so. I thought that was just common sense if you were able to.
As a installer, it is not your job to give everyone qualtiy sound, because we are not the standard to go by. The consumer is! How can they complain if it is what they wanted and understand that? No matter how much you try, you will not be able to convince everyone of your beliefs. In fact it is offensive to do so. If a mind is wanting & willing to grow, their fields will not be hard to till.
Ash,
You could do the 3-way if you really wanted to. Given what you know, and where to get gear for cheaper, what's stopping you? Crossovers are not that hard when you go all active....hint, hint. SMILE
newB on 03/22/2008 00:18:42
the whole jobless factor comes into play here.
only monthly payment i have is a 20$ laptop payment which i make building/installing.
im actually doing an entire semester of school without buying a single book, i'm fairly proud of myself
-Drew
swez on 03/22/2008 08:45:33
Agree w/ Ash on all counts here. When we are working our magic for others, (Paying customers) they dictate the level of work and quality to be done by the budget set aside for any given project.
Yes, it's nice to have a good demo car of our own so they can hear the results and then decide on what level of the game they can afford at a given time. Even if we have to install sub-par gear, the skill of the installer will be the main element that determines the outcome. Better gear does make it easier, but 80-90% of the outcome is pretty much in the hands of the installer and acoustic quirks of the vehicle we are working with. (Stock speaker size, location, sound dampening and use of proper crossovers and filters as needed)
A quick word on money management in tight times...
"Learn to live below our means". A good method is to live on 80% of what we make each month and save the rest. If we get OT pay or a pay rate increase, put as much as possible into savings and pay off all high interest bearing consumer debt as soon as possible.
Since credit card interest percentages are often very high, get them out of the way ASAP. Car notes are generally fixed and simple interest loans whereby much of the interest is paid in years 1-3 of the loan. There is little advantage to pay them off faster after year 3 as the damage has already been done.
It's also a lot cheaper to buy a quality used car then a cheap new one. The cost of a new car is high on the front end and may take 5 years to pay off. A 2 year old car with under 30,000 miles on it is often deemed the better bargain. Depreciation of the vehicle has already been paid buy the original owner and the used car buyer benefits from the depreciation in lower cost and lots of good miles left on a given ride.
OK, so we need brakes and tires at some point down the road. That's not a huge expense and if one is handy and has the proper tools, we can do most of that work ourselves and save here too. Just be sure to buy quality parts in the process. They cost a bit more, but in the long run, they last longer and cost less. If we average that cost over time and miles, it's usually the best way to go. (Labor is the big cost here, not the parts)
See how that works?
Swez COFFEE
Ash on 03/22/2008 10:19:33
Exactly so Swez! In trying to keep things alive we have to find good alternatives that work. It may not be something that we would use for ourselves, but you almost have to in order to prove so.
It's all economics and going with the tides. There still will be those that are willing to go further and get the best gear, but we can not afford to overlook the little guy either. Take Pyramid & Legacy for instance.... True they may lie about quite a bit of the gear they produce. At the same time they have had and still make some gear that is usable to a degree. Look how some of the lines have remained around all these years. It must be working enough for them to still keep them on the market.
As a installer, you must continually find the little hidden gems, try them, and push them as well. Like Swez pointed out, it is your working knowledge that will make them satisfactory.
One item that I could not possibly do without right now is the Dayton WT3. This will let you know which driver's specs are correct and how to correctly use ones that aren't or don't even come with them. Very handy. If you remember the post I wrote on it you will get the picture.
newB on 03/22/2008 16:12:00
OT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPApRN97WRs
-Drew
Ash on 03/22/2008 17:29:03
That's just what I'm talking about! When someone says they want something that really pounds or even able to break glass, we can show them how to do it with the cheapest of speakers.
We can pound the body of the car and bust out their windows with some Pyramid Phase III's....!!! "Boom! There you are sir, are you satisfied with the work? Done just as promised." GRIN
newB on 03/22/2008 19:13:51
hahahaha
that link was all over meade's forum... back story is that he needed to take out his old back window and replace it with a new one. The problem was that the wall for his two 15s made the back of the car impossible to reach through the inside, so he had to find a way to get it out from the outside... hense the 18" Fi BTL doing what it does best, smash'n windows!!
-Drew
Ash on 03/22/2008 20:21:36
I got to admit, I thought he was going to blow out the glass with actual db's. That caught me off guard, but was funny. Could you imagine the look on peoples faces if you did that?
swez on 03/23/2008 08:16:59
The guy in that video could have just called Mike's Mobile AutoGlass to remove the rear window w/o breaking it, had access to his gear and retint the window before re-installing it. Wonder how much the new glass cost him and the trip to the hospital to sew up his cut fingers?
Would it be reasonable to assume from this clip that high Bass SPL from Rap music impairs good judgement in some males?
Well, it was all in good fun and the car owner is happy now, so there seems to be some methodology to his madness. Can think of better ways to do this job at much less cost... hehe D'oh!
Swez
Ash on 03/23/2008 15:41:15
That's another aspect where the hobby has gotten out of hand. People like that make it look like everyone in it is wasteful with money and/or rash with decisions.
That has to change as well as the stigma that all systems are nothing but noise pollution devices. Naturally most people assume that when you install one that your intentions are to boom the block ,but nothing else could be further from the truth.
After playing around with some high powered setups, I quickly missed my medium output SQ system. Yet trying to convince those that are new to this and some that are just ignorant that you don't need a whole lot is almost impossible.
MrBrownstone on 03/23/2008 22:25:55
I have noticed that the jobs HS kids & college pukes used to do are not done by our illegals in MN, Nev, WI, & esp in CA. That is a lot of where the money is going in my areas.
I may be soon losing much of my contacts for the equipment as distributors are combining or going out of business.
In the next few months I'll be in transistion so if you don't hear much from me, I'm not incarcerated. If anything happens, please keep me posted.
swez on 03/24/2008 04:47:10
Actually, have see a dramaitic shift in our local labor force. What was once suitable for younger and less experienced kids, they don't want these jobs, don't show up for work and when they do, they are not focused on the tasks at hand.
To fill that void, older workers that have been down-sized, had the corporate rug pulled out from under them and need a steady paycheck are now doing many jobs that pay about 75% less then what they once had. Yes, it's boon to the employer as older adults have a good work ethic, come to work everyday and have enough experience in life to transfer high level skills to low paying jobs that require one to think and stay focused.
Things are changing fast in this new economic downturn. We either adapt of go hungry. Unfortunately, too many baby boomer kids got soft and used to Mom and Dad forking out cash to Jenny and Johnny when they wanted the latest new toys. They are not willing to stoop to low paying jobs if Mom & Dad just hand out cash at the blink of an eye. These kids often feel a sense of entitlement now. "You owe me an easy life" is a lousy mentality to get stuck on.
Sooner or later, school will be over and they will have to leave the nest and figure things out on their own. What a shock that will be when they realize that life is a lot harsher out there in the real world than the cushy ones they live in now. Can you say that a "rude awakening" is just around the next curve?
Swez
Ash on 03/24/2008 15:13:22
I would say that is to blame on my generation unfortunately. My lady's kids are the perfect example of what you speak of as they will only do things when forced and nothing more. They lack any type of drive to go get things on their own and expect mom & dad to do it. I have even seen it go so far as either lying or making excuses in order to get out of menial tasks such as cutting the grass, washing the dishes, or even cleaning up their rooms.
Heck, the oldest has a car, cell phone, is a senior is high school, and doesn't even have job to help pay for any of his expenses. All he does is wait for his dad to send him money every month (welfare mentality) and mom to pick up the slack. No consideration for getting the things he really doesn't need on his own or even what he does need. The parents are the fools for doing it though..... And to think he is even considering going into the military after graduation, or is that another excuse of " I'm gonna do it". Well that I'm waiting to see, because I don't believe that either.
Their parents lives will be ruined as they will have to constantly tend grown men or they will be forced to push them out of the nest totally unprepared. Yet the kids know what they are doing and at times I want to blame them for they know better. It's all just a matter of being able to get away with things and not having to accept responsibility. Like you said, it's going to be hard having to grow up when you aren't ready. I'm waiting, that day for them is very soon. All I will be able to say is "I told you so!".
newB on 03/24/2008 19:08:27
i am a lazy hippie college student and the world owes me everything.
jk of course
and meade could have taken the window out traditionally, and didnt think things through by not wearing gloves. the whole stunt was created on his forum where people were begging for a BTL through the back window ;-) good'ol entertainment.
-Drew
Ash on 03/24/2008 19:56:34
Of course things really wasn't taken serious in that aspect Drew, but when you have been around for a while like us older guys the demise is somewhat painful. You gotta remember we were there when the whole car audio thing started.
I remember when radio speaker outputs were common ground. If you ran a 40 watt booster hooked up to a pair of 6x9" 2-3 ways you were "jammin". 8 track tape players were part of stock "premium car sytems". There were no such thing as a subwoofer in a car. Jensen was one of the reigning brands. Radio Shack/Tandy produced quite a bit of car audio. Pyle Driver was a awesome company. Metal cassette HU's with Dolby II were considered top of the line. Onkyo made some of the finest HU's. And you didn't get stopped by the cops for loud music......
I must say we are lucky to see the advancements in the hobby, all to be taken for granted and almost ignored. SAD
swez on 03/24/2008 23:17:09
Oh... those names take me back to a much simpler time in life when things were fun, easy and relatively cheap. Not quiet so simple and cheap these days though. But for those that are old enough to remember these hayday events of the 70's & early 80's... we've come a LONG want from those kinds of toys huh?
Unfortunately, with so many options and all that power at our fingertips now, there are greater responsibilities that go with them as well.
Swez
PS The world owes us nothing! Our parents owe us nothing! It's our time, (or time coming soon) to make our own mark on the world. When we see that reality and face it square on, good things can and will happen! It's a choice and that power will soon be in the hands of of a fresh generation. We've seen what some morons have done in the past... learn from their mistakes. (Just wach the news and see what happens to the present mayor of Detroit as he faces a new reality he never considered along the path) Imagine that... telling the truth, no spin and accepting full resposibility for his own actions. That's the path to maturity and healthy living.
ttocs on 03/24/2008 23:26:48
I don't have any kids, I have just watched my neighbors kids grow up over the years. One of them dropped out of HS at 15, when I asked him why he would just shrug his shoulders and tell me that he could not handle school. he didn't like having to sit there and listen to them so his mother signed the form and he lost his license till he was 18 but didn't care. They take that as an excuse now? I don't like school? I am pretty sure I made that argument to my folks once or twice but I knew that it was their way, or their way and they said go to school.... My other neighbors(good friends next door) 2 kids graduated and everything! The oldest just moved out at age 22, the youngest (19)almost has enough money for a car, their heads are on straight as they know their momma won't take no crap from them.
Even spring break isn't the reason as there's a pattern of over a 3months of little activity.
Could it be that we've debunked all the myths?
Could it be that when you google a problem it leads to solutiosn?
Heck, even the competitor sites are broadcasting a cricket chorus
USFLAG
Replies (40)
Ash on 03/18/2008 15:11:34
I've been wondering for a while now what is contributing to demise of several aspects of this hobby. Could be better integration in newer vehicles, fear of recession resulting in less money spent for playtime, less do-it-yourselfers out there, etc.
Even with me, I haven't been fooling around with much, though I still have the love. Just seems like no one is really needing work done or they rather just settle with the setup they already have despite if it's bad.
Intriguing......
cplkittle on 03/18/2008 15:21:45
I spend some time on Yahoo answers, there seems to be a steady stream of "which sub is better", or "what kind of radio should I get"
Great topics for a long post, but in Y! answers, you only get one reply per person. I try to convert as many as I can. I met Raghu there, but he is the only one that has dropped by.
MrBrownstone on 03/19/2008 14:08:30
When you get older, you outgrow this gig. except for me, swez & the bald installer...we just get ...well, we ain't goin no where.
What isn't happening is young people entering the mix. I've noticed that kids aren't rushing to get their driver's licenses at age 15/16. That 2 year period is the incubation period for car audio as you have your own ride AND the need to do something about that pathetic 8 yr old factory stereo.....ahh...the crack starts early.
College is where you get to make all of your own decisions, hence, when you have $2300 in hardware on your dorm room desk deciding how to install all of it, noone second guesses our decisions.
We need to take a page out of old Brown & Bigelow & phillip Morris' playbook. That, or I wonder if this industry is a goner?
PS $3.50 gas isn't helping either. I know it sounds corny, but I remember when gas was $1.50a gallon...2001.
Heck, I remember when it was $1.97 in 2005. That probably has some to do with it.
ttocs on 03/19/2008 15:29:43
I have noticed that it has been slowing down, not sure why. I actually have been making more progress then ever on the stang and only have a couple of cover panels to finish before it is complete.
bluecat1 on 03/19/2008 16:09:19
Hey guys! It's funny your should mention the younger generation being into or lack of the whole audio thing. My 2 sons have absolutely no interest in this stuff. They rather drive with the radio off which is really weird to me. You mention gas prices. I remember when gas was .27c a gallon. That was in the late 70's. As far as my desire go's. I could look at gear set ups all day long and put together different designs to what I would do. I never get tired of this stuff!
MrBrownstone on 03/19/2008 18:48:14
Ahhhhhh Crap!
Just what I figured, Car Audio is not on VH1!!!
Now it's just me & us 'old farts' now. Why can't chicks get into stereos?
I blame the internet cellphones with video & mp3 capability. Heck, I have a cell phone that was designed by NASA. Course, I use it to capture video of random stuff, send pictures of the thermometer saying 84F in February and basically, I don't even know why I have one this sofisticated as I don't use it for a phone.
although I have send 1973 text messages so far this year. That's about it.
newB on 03/19/2008 18:57:04
i'm 19 and my girlfriend is 18, she is begging for a 1.6cuft @37hz single 10 box for the back of her extended cab. also wants to upgrade HU+interiors blah blah blah the list goes on.
but she is PRO bass and loves it
-Drew
ttocs on 03/20/2008 01:43:51
so your girl "is beggin" for something bigger then an 8" huh? You can give her my number.... I wouldn't advertise that if I were you but I have never had that problem so I wouldn't know.
How about the ipod revolution creating this effect? What good is a high quality set up if you only play mp3's? Everytime I look around I see somebody with their ipod style headphones on as if they could not imagine walking into the store with out it? I laughed really hard about a month ago when I saw a couple out enjoying each others company on a beautifull day, both with headphones on.......
I also laughed when last month I was looking for tech flex locally to finish the speaker wiring I wanted to run. I live in the 5th biggest city in the us(pa=ho=nix) surely there is a place in town that sells it. I had to do some searching to find a small, high end mom and pop shop that worked by appointment. I called them and told them I felt silly scheduling an appointment for maybe $50 worth of tech flex but he explained that it was because it was ran by him and his brother and they just wanted to make sure that somebody would be there to see me. When I made it in the store my eye was immediatly caught by a REALLY smooth lookin tube amp that was right at eye level as I walked in. It was a work of art man, brushed finish and blue led accents and of course 4 tubes(6 watt push-pull) dimly lit sticking out of the top. and the center piece, mounted in the middle of this brushed finished, beautifully blue lit 6 watt audiophile tube amp WAS NONE OTHER THAN A DAMN IPOD CRADLE........ TUBE AMP AND IPOD BELONG IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS MUCH AS TEETH AND PENIS(sorry to curse swez!)!
newB on 03/20/2008 02:16:09
you cant FEEL headphones
i'd rather sit in 140+ <70hz than 100db at full range ipod quality.
those mess up my hearing so fast
-Drew
swez on 03/20/2008 03:23:59
The troops are getting bored and restless I see?
Ttocs... go to your room and say 5 Hail Mary's, 4 Our Fathers and recite the stations of the cross. After that, all sins will be absolved. LOL
Bluecat1... welcome to our little corner of the world. Good to see some older cats in the game here again. Good to have some new/older blood in the house again.
Ehhem, was pumping gas at 28 cents a gallon in 1973-74 after school let out. Almost got fired one night when the District Mgr almost caught us pumping "Ethel'. We ran out of regular an hour earlier and the price was only 3 cents more.
Back then, we made 4 cents a gallon and even had a 4 cent discount pump for commercial vehicles. Good ol Tulsa Oil Company...a full service station too. (Check oil, wash windows, pump gas and add fluids as needed)
Mr B... good to see you come back to the roost again for some laughs and stir up the pot. Keep stirring pal... we're plenty bored right now.
Swez COFFEE
ttocs on 03/20/2008 04:58:33
I try not to tell anyone to go to hail, mary included.....
I am suprised at you swez...
jamesp on 03/20/2008 09:23:57
The first gas that I pumped into my own car, a 71 Super Beetle, was 27¢ a gallon. A week later there was a local gas war and it dropped to 17¢. I was mad because I had wasted over a dollar by filling it up the day I brought it home from the dealership.
The out the door price on the "loaded" bug was $2378.00. My 16 year old hands were shaking as I signed the bank note. I put down $478.00 and financed $1900.00. High finance. Funny that I dont remember any of the details of later vehicle purchases. Times sure have changed. I have paid more for a vehicle than my first house and 6 acres of land cost.
My son, give me a couple of Hail Marys and a half dozen Our Fahdders and call it good.
bluecat1 on 03/20/2008 10:27:34
swez,
Thank you for welcoming me to the nest. It's kind of lonely when you have no one to play with or talk too about the good old days. I tell my kids about the days of old and they look at me as if I have three heads. I worked at this little mobil station back in the early 70's when self service was insult to the attendent. Back then cars were so easy to work on. You had a simple engine that it didn't take a rocket sientist to work on. Cassette players was the big thing and musle cars were the attraction to the ladies. You could hang on the corner with your friends, drink some beers and have a good time. Try doing that today and you get pinched for loitering, disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace and public drinking. What has this world come too. Now I drive around in a family van, listen to music I can understand the words to and watch a new generation conform to ipods, computers on cell phones and what ever the car manufacturers push out the door.
MrBrownstone on 03/20/2008 17:18:11
Hey Swez
I don't get to the Old folks Home much, so sorry I haven't visited you much. END RANT
I was just marveling at a few of the things I used to do, and to comemorate a historic day when I filed for my bus license, I got a little sentimental and looked up the websites that used to be in operation.
Only a few left now, NONE of them with the original ownership. I went to all the forums, and only termpro (dbDrag), elite & this one are active...although all are a fraction of their heyday.
I'm just curious if the internet didn't assist in the degredation of the industry after the economic shutdown. Granted, all 'optional' equipment has taken an beating since 2000...still, I'm a little amazed that it was so severe.
I mean, c'mon, they're college kids. They have the most disposable income in all the age brackets...even vs seniors. Yet, somehow, I guess maybe it's over. No more high end equipment. Just a better than average factory, mp3s (which sound poor), and car audio going the way of the 8 track.
Hey, at least noone is asking about which capacitor is the best one on the market anymore!
USFLAG
newB on 03/20/2008 19:34:16
hahahaha
idk what college your at/been to that has the most disposable income but I'm digging for food and gas money!!!
kids i know are in one of two situations-
first, mommy and daddy drop them an 80s honda or 90s coupe and they dont want to put any money into it looking/sounding decent
OR
second, mommy and daddy give them 03 mustang GTs (friend of mine, and he is 16) and he would rather do body/muffler/engine mods than enjoying his drive with clean sound.
@_@
i'm on 7 different forums, NOT Caraudio.com because they are.... not my style...
8 if you include walts recently established Myspace.com/clubknowlege group (dont quote me on that URL i'm just taking it off the top of my head)
-Drew
SQLThump on 03/20/2008 20:47:16
A lot of these are agreat observations of why car audio and related forums are in decline.
I am also with Drew on kids and cars nowadays for the most part, but I have a few freinds who the only reason they don't have loud cldean sound in the car is because they don't have a car, and can't afford one, or are dirt poor rolling in something not too unlike the Bucket, and can't afford for me to peice them together a dirt poor rig.
Sales at my buddies "CarToys" shop has taken a major hit in the last year, with little signs of picking up. Even his cell phones are selling poorly right now.
Personally I think the unfortunate car audio downturn is caused by reasons in this order
Econonomic problems, fewer jobs available, retarted gas prices.
The near impossibility of intergrating aftermarket head units with many of today's new cars.
A combination of noise ordinance laws, and hoodjackers giving enthusiasts a hard time
Fewer people shaking the asphalt, making other people want to shake the asphalt harder
Major losses in innovation and interest that was associated with car audio, even just a few years ago
The huge amount of af junk gear and BS myths finding their way into the hands of mobile electronics rookies.
Fewer places to buy non-junk gear from, and even fewer that are honest and worth a crap
These are my main hunches to why we are in a slump. Maybe we need more advertising for new products, and the joy and sportingness the hobby provides. That, and the Ipod/cellphone craze that everybody has mentioned. Young dudes are spending there loose cash on different, lamer things like a new cellphone every 3 months, or a PS3, or things of that nature. I used to know people who would buy a new system every few months just for the fun of it, and now I know nobody like this besides myself and those on CK. My own sister would rather listen to her Ipod or PDA while driving than have me hook up a CD player she already has purchased free of installation charge. Never felt such a desire to strangle my own flesh and blood...........
Drew, hit me up with a link for the Myspace group! I'll join!
newB on 03/20/2008 21:27:32
http://groups.myspace.com/cknet
and their cross promotion
http://groups.myspace.com/CarAudioRespek
i'm on both forums, look for my A3 thread in respek
-Drew
SQLThump on 03/20/2008 22:00:25
Word man, I joined them both.......dont mind my profile though......not to be taken at all seroiusly........
newB on 03/21/2008 00:06:23
no prob. dont be a stranger! (all of you)
i support all audio forums!!!
-Drew
Ash on 03/21/2008 03:34:38
Well, one thing is for sure, the price of decent gear hasn't gone down from any of these reasons. Heck, even my favorite place to shop, Partexpress, has increased prices a bit. In rough times that surely doesn't help at all. What it has done is motivate me to start getting rid of excess gear and concentrate on improving my own setup.
This tax season was a decent one for me. Yet, with all the usual sprees that occur around this time of year I have yet to see. Still see people buying newer rides but not doing anything with them. I used to get asked all the time on what to use. Now all they want to talk about is paying their car note on time.
Perhaps I shall have to come up with cheap rigs that integrate easily and sound decent. That will require the testing some of the "el cheapo" stuff out there to separate the "okay" from the bad. It's a shame!
MrBrownstone on 03/21/2008 12:24:59
It's like the 'community' broke up or something.
I remember when www.carsound.com had everybody contributing. There were competing car audio magazines...now I think there might still be one...but I haven't bought one in years because you don't see them on stands anymore & I never subscribe to stuff.
I do in part blame the economy, but the auto manufacturers making it supremely difficult to install aftermarket parts is a strong contributing factor.
Before, you unscrewed or snapped off the panel & voila`!! you had instant access. Now, with those stupid double din faces, those moronic climate control systems, you have to get converter brackets just to hold the thing in there.
PS concerning college & HS kids having the most discretionary money, they do. They don't have house or car payments. Few have kids, not worried about contributing to their retirement accounts. For every dollar made, they have the most choice in how it is spent...hence the word discretionary.
PPS I see hundreds of college pukes (95% dudes) playing poker & telling each other how they're broke after losing to a bad beat. I think POKER is the craze where all the money must be going. That, & I blame the Terrrrrrrr.
Ash on 03/21/2008 21:56:05
I have came to the conclusion a while back when experimenting with budget gear that it winds up being an age old adage:
"If you can't beat em', join em'!"
What I mean by that is apparently people aren't willing to pay for quality stuff anymore, at least the majority isn't. Even when they are, they're not getting the stuff that we used to obtain back in the days. All have admitted that quite a few of the major players have drop the ball. Alpine, Rockford, Sony, Phoenix Gold, Kicker, and Lanzar to name a few just aren't what they used to be. Instead of pining over this, perhaps it's time to turn to new sources, new ideas (or old ones), different ways to beat the sytem.
Bose, for example uses the cheapest of drivers, yet they keep winning people over. Could it be that they have realized something that we don't like to admit? The majority of people don't know good sound when they hear it. Let's face it, the type of people here are what I would call neo-audiophiles. True enough there are guys here that have keen insights, exquisite tastes, and a true passion for the art, I mean, really know their stuff. But look at what the majority of posts in the past few years have been; people trying to make do with the very little that they have or simply not wanting to go the extra mile or even inch. Usually it's the off brands or used good brand gear that they turn to.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in high quality and paying for it somewhat, but you're going to have a hard time convincing that to someone who thinks his stock bose is the best in the world and may not be able to see too far past adding some more bass. Coming up with similar setups, integration packages, or perhaps a step up or two in drivers wouldn't hurt, as it's easy to see they will settle with that. Instead of ripping out a whole stock stereo, maybe finding adequate replacements where needed may be an important key. Ever seen some of the stock replacement prices?
Example:
A buddy of mine who owns a late model tahoe with a bose system with a 8" sub in the rear quarter panel recently had trouble if you remember the post. He only wanted a replacement which was impossible to find unless paying for an overly expensive unit from the dealer, so I went to work. Using up to date test gear, I was able enough to pull the parameters off the sub to see how bose was actually configuring it. After a long search I found a match suitable to the orignal's performance. With enough money he could've had a little better, but bare in mind he was dang near broke. Right now he is as happy as a hog wallowing in slop because all he wanted is it to work again. I fulfilled that for him and now he thinks I'm some kind of audio celebrity. Won him over for future upgrades when he needs at least he says.
To me it's not good enough, but then I have to remind myself of my tastes and how most don't or won't have that aspect. The main point is that he is satisfied.
See where I'm going? I know I'll probably chastised, but what other choice did I have..... If that's all I can get to "keep me in the game", I'll take it.
Making sense or am I'm just rambling?
newB on 03/21/2008 22:21:36
rambling.
GRIN J/K
people just dont care about quality sound!!
if i had extra $ i would love to do a nice 3way comp set up front with 8" 5.25 and tweet, giving me the chance to learn more about crossovers
i cant say for the general audio community, i deal mostly with High School students working 10-15hrs a week at minimum wage.
-Drew
Ash on 03/21/2008 23:59:48
Rambling, then I might have had too much french brandy before writing this. It is spring break you know, gimme a break! GRIN
I work in a plant as a technician/group leader. The few remaining from back when the plant was just starting out have the know how of course. Yet, the young bucks (19 the youngest!) that are in there now don't care too much to learn. All they want is a paycheck to party with. They don't even realize how good they have it making $11 per hour @40-50 hours a week just as a temp.
Back when I started out around 25, I was only pulling about 8 smackers full-time and was proud to able to do for my family & myself. Of course you're talking about 12 years ago......
It's not that they really have to be able to discern quality, it's all about getting your money's worth. They don't care about putting back for hard times or anything of the liike. Heck, just thursday when I was telling a few of the young bunch on the job about paying all their bills with the first half of the month's pay and then putting the second portion straight in savings (except for menial things), they looked at me as if I was Einstein. Maybe not to that extreme, but you could tell it hadn't crossed their mind to do so. I thought that was just common sense if you were able to.
As a installer, it is not your job to give everyone qualtiy sound, because we are not the standard to go by. The consumer is! How can they complain if it is what they wanted and understand that? No matter how much you try, you will not be able to convince everyone of your beliefs. In fact it is offensive to do so. If a mind is wanting & willing to grow, their fields will not be hard to till.
Ash,
You could do the 3-way if you really wanted to. Given what you know, and where to get gear for cheaper, what's stopping you? Crossovers are not that hard when you go all active....hint, hint. SMILE
newB on 03/22/2008 00:18:42
the whole jobless factor comes into play here.
only monthly payment i have is a 20$ laptop payment which i make building/installing.
im actually doing an entire semester of school without buying a single book, i'm fairly proud of myself
-Drew
swez on 03/22/2008 08:45:33
Agree w/ Ash on all counts here. When we are working our magic for others, (Paying customers) they dictate the level of work and quality to be done by the budget set aside for any given project.
Yes, it's nice to have a good demo car of our own so they can hear the results and then decide on what level of the game they can afford at a given time. Even if we have to install sub-par gear, the skill of the installer will be the main element that determines the outcome. Better gear does make it easier, but 80-90% of the outcome is pretty much in the hands of the installer and acoustic quirks of the vehicle we are working with. (Stock speaker size, location, sound dampening and use of proper crossovers and filters as needed)
A quick word on money management in tight times...
"Learn to live below our means". A good method is to live on 80% of what we make each month and save the rest. If we get OT pay or a pay rate increase, put as much as possible into savings and pay off all high interest bearing consumer debt as soon as possible.
Since credit card interest percentages are often very high, get them out of the way ASAP. Car notes are generally fixed and simple interest loans whereby much of the interest is paid in years 1-3 of the loan. There is little advantage to pay them off faster after year 3 as the damage has already been done.
It's also a lot cheaper to buy a quality used car then a cheap new one. The cost of a new car is high on the front end and may take 5 years to pay off. A 2 year old car with under 30,000 miles on it is often deemed the better bargain. Depreciation of the vehicle has already been paid buy the original owner and the used car buyer benefits from the depreciation in lower cost and lots of good miles left on a given ride.
OK, so we need brakes and tires at some point down the road. That's not a huge expense and if one is handy and has the proper tools, we can do most of that work ourselves and save here too. Just be sure to buy quality parts in the process. They cost a bit more, but in the long run, they last longer and cost less. If we average that cost over time and miles, it's usually the best way to go. (Labor is the big cost here, not the parts)
See how that works?
Swez COFFEE
Ash on 03/22/2008 10:19:33
Exactly so Swez! In trying to keep things alive we have to find good alternatives that work. It may not be something that we would use for ourselves, but you almost have to in order to prove so.
It's all economics and going with the tides. There still will be those that are willing to go further and get the best gear, but we can not afford to overlook the little guy either. Take Pyramid & Legacy for instance.... True they may lie about quite a bit of the gear they produce. At the same time they have had and still make some gear that is usable to a degree. Look how some of the lines have remained around all these years. It must be working enough for them to still keep them on the market.
As a installer, you must continually find the little hidden gems, try them, and push them as well. Like Swez pointed out, it is your working knowledge that will make them satisfactory.
One item that I could not possibly do without right now is the Dayton WT3. This will let you know which driver's specs are correct and how to correctly use ones that aren't or don't even come with them. Very handy. If you remember the post I wrote on it you will get the picture.
newB on 03/22/2008 16:12:00
OT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPApRN97WRs
-Drew
Ash on 03/22/2008 17:29:03
That's just what I'm talking about! When someone says they want something that really pounds or even able to break glass, we can show them how to do it with the cheapest of speakers.
We can pound the body of the car and bust out their windows with some Pyramid Phase III's....!!! "Boom! There you are sir, are you satisfied with the work? Done just as promised." GRIN
newB on 03/22/2008 19:13:51
hahahaha
that link was all over meade's forum... back story is that he needed to take out his old back window and replace it with a new one. The problem was that the wall for his two 15s made the back of the car impossible to reach through the inside, so he had to find a way to get it out from the outside... hense the 18" Fi BTL doing what it does best, smash'n windows!!
-Drew
Ash on 03/22/2008 20:21:36
I got to admit, I thought he was going to blow out the glass with actual db's. That caught me off guard, but was funny. Could you imagine the look on peoples faces if you did that?
swez on 03/23/2008 08:16:59
The guy in that video could have just called Mike's Mobile AutoGlass to remove the rear window w/o breaking it, had access to his gear and retint the window before re-installing it. Wonder how much the new glass cost him and the trip to the hospital to sew up his cut fingers?
Would it be reasonable to assume from this clip that high Bass SPL from Rap music impairs good judgement in some males?
Well, it was all in good fun and the car owner is happy now, so there seems to be some methodology to his madness. Can think of better ways to do this job at much less cost... hehe D'oh!
Swez
Ash on 03/23/2008 15:41:15
That's another aspect where the hobby has gotten out of hand. People like that make it look like everyone in it is wasteful with money and/or rash with decisions.
That has to change as well as the stigma that all systems are nothing but noise pollution devices. Naturally most people assume that when you install one that your intentions are to boom the block ,but nothing else could be further from the truth.
After playing around with some high powered setups, I quickly missed my medium output SQ system. Yet trying to convince those that are new to this and some that are just ignorant that you don't need a whole lot is almost impossible.
MrBrownstone on 03/23/2008 22:25:55
I have noticed that the jobs HS kids & college pukes used to do are not done by our illegals in MN, Nev, WI, & esp in CA. That is a lot of where the money is going in my areas.
I may be soon losing much of my contacts for the equipment as distributors are combining or going out of business.
In the next few months I'll be in transistion so if you don't hear much from me, I'm not incarcerated. If anything happens, please keep me posted.
swez on 03/24/2008 04:47:10
Actually, have see a dramaitic shift in our local labor force. What was once suitable for younger and less experienced kids, they don't want these jobs, don't show up for work and when they do, they are not focused on the tasks at hand.
To fill that void, older workers that have been down-sized, had the corporate rug pulled out from under them and need a steady paycheck are now doing many jobs that pay about 75% less then what they once had. Yes, it's boon to the employer as older adults have a good work ethic, come to work everyday and have enough experience in life to transfer high level skills to low paying jobs that require one to think and stay focused.
Things are changing fast in this new economic downturn. We either adapt of go hungry. Unfortunately, too many baby boomer kids got soft and used to Mom and Dad forking out cash to Jenny and Johnny when they wanted the latest new toys. They are not willing to stoop to low paying jobs if Mom & Dad just hand out cash at the blink of an eye. These kids often feel a sense of entitlement now. "You owe me an easy life" is a lousy mentality to get stuck on.
Sooner or later, school will be over and they will have to leave the nest and figure things out on their own. What a shock that will be when they realize that life is a lot harsher out there in the real world than the cushy ones they live in now. Can you say that a "rude awakening" is just around the next curve?
Swez
Ash on 03/24/2008 15:13:22
I would say that is to blame on my generation unfortunately. My lady's kids are the perfect example of what you speak of as they will only do things when forced and nothing more. They lack any type of drive to go get things on their own and expect mom & dad to do it. I have even seen it go so far as either lying or making excuses in order to get out of menial tasks such as cutting the grass, washing the dishes, or even cleaning up their rooms.
Heck, the oldest has a car, cell phone, is a senior is high school, and doesn't even have job to help pay for any of his expenses. All he does is wait for his dad to send him money every month (welfare mentality) and mom to pick up the slack. No consideration for getting the things he really doesn't need on his own or even what he does need. The parents are the fools for doing it though..... And to think he is even considering going into the military after graduation, or is that another excuse of " I'm gonna do it". Well that I'm waiting to see, because I don't believe that either.
Their parents lives will be ruined as they will have to constantly tend grown men or they will be forced to push them out of the nest totally unprepared. Yet the kids know what they are doing and at times I want to blame them for they know better. It's all just a matter of being able to get away with things and not having to accept responsibility. Like you said, it's going to be hard having to grow up when you aren't ready. I'm waiting, that day for them is very soon. All I will be able to say is "I told you so!".
newB on 03/24/2008 19:08:27
i am a lazy hippie college student and the world owes me everything.
jk of course
and meade could have taken the window out traditionally, and didnt think things through by not wearing gloves. the whole stunt was created on his forum where people were begging for a BTL through the back window ;-) good'ol entertainment.
-Drew
Ash on 03/24/2008 19:56:34
Of course things really wasn't taken serious in that aspect Drew, but when you have been around for a while like us older guys the demise is somewhat painful. You gotta remember we were there when the whole car audio thing started.
I remember when radio speaker outputs were common ground. If you ran a 40 watt booster hooked up to a pair of 6x9" 2-3 ways you were "jammin". 8 track tape players were part of stock "premium car sytems". There were no such thing as a subwoofer in a car. Jensen was one of the reigning brands. Radio Shack/Tandy produced quite a bit of car audio. Pyle Driver was a awesome company. Metal cassette HU's with Dolby II were considered top of the line. Onkyo made some of the finest HU's. And you didn't get stopped by the cops for loud music......
I must say we are lucky to see the advancements in the hobby, all to be taken for granted and almost ignored. SAD
swez on 03/24/2008 23:17:09
Oh... those names take me back to a much simpler time in life when things were fun, easy and relatively cheap. Not quiet so simple and cheap these days though. But for those that are old enough to remember these hayday events of the 70's & early 80's... we've come a LONG want from those kinds of toys huh?
Unfortunately, with so many options and all that power at our fingertips now, there are greater responsibilities that go with them as well.
Swez
PS The world owes us nothing! Our parents owe us nothing! It's our time, (or time coming soon) to make our own mark on the world. When we see that reality and face it square on, good things can and will happen! It's a choice and that power will soon be in the hands of of a fresh generation. We've seen what some morons have done in the past... learn from their mistakes. (Just wach the news and see what happens to the present mayor of Detroit as he faces a new reality he never considered along the path) Imagine that... telling the truth, no spin and accepting full resposibility for his own actions. That's the path to maturity and healthy living.
ttocs on 03/24/2008 23:26:48
I don't have any kids, I have just watched my neighbors kids grow up over the years. One of them dropped out of HS at 15, when I asked him why he would just shrug his shoulders and tell me that he could not handle school. he didn't like having to sit there and listen to them so his mother signed the form and he lost his license till he was 18 but didn't care. They take that as an excuse now? I don't like school? I am pretty sure I made that argument to my folks once or twice but I knew that it was their way, or their way and they said go to school.... My other neighbors(good friends next door) 2 kids graduated and everything! The oldest just moved out at age 22, the youngest (19)almost has enough money for a car, their heads are on straight as they know their momma won't take no crap from them.
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