I had a question, I know it's probably really simple but I'm kinda lost. I have 2 ten inch subs powered by a 400w mono kicker amp and it's all controled with an ARC Audio EQ. I've been told that my EQ puts out about 9volts to the signal cables, so when I turn off my ignition my subs pop, any idea's as to what is going on? I also was wondering what the difference's between the different class amps are. (class d or class a)?
Replies (16)
bgmikeseay on 03/9/2008 00:10:20
2001 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
Ash on 03/9/2008 08:05:24
There are several things that can cause that and since you have added a EQ it can definitely add to the mix. If you disconnect the EQ from the amp will it still do it?
Check to see if the all components have a good ground. Make sure the amp's gain isn't set too high. If the eq is able to put out that much voltage you want to make sure the amp's input is compatible. The eq's voltage isn't 9 volts all the time, only if driven to the max, but if the output exceeds the limits of the amps input there could be trouble there. Turn the amp's gain down to see if it improves.
What model amp is the kicker? Could be possible that it doesn't have turn off mute. That may not be a problem with normal installs, but the more electronics you add in the chain certain things will reveal themselves.
What are you running for a head unit? Give full details of the whole system so someone can try to track down what's going on....
Ash,
Raghu on 03/9/2008 14:55:06
You really need to measure the volts on amp. input. Accordingly, you need to set gain on your amp.
Regarding amp. classes, the following details may help: (credit: crutchfield.com)
Amplifiers are categorized into different classes based on their performance characteristics. Each class determines a specific design employed in the amp circuitry. And each design has different performance characteristics such as, power dissipation (in the form of heat) and distortion characteristics determining the efficiency of an amp.
* Class A amplifiers are desirable for the high quality of their sound but inefficient and runs very hot. This is because even when there is no audio signal, the output transistor(s) always have current running through them. The current flowing through the output transistor(s) (with no audio signal) causes the amp to heat up unnecessarily, and "waste" input energy. Most car amplifiers that boast "Class A" circuitry are really Class A/Class AB hybrids.
* Class AB amplifiers are most commonly available amp design. They allow current to run through the output transistors when there is no audio signal, but at a much lower level. A class AB amplifier runs cooler, and therefore, more efficiently than a class A, with low distortion and high reliability.
* Class D amplifiers boast higher efficiency, produce less heat, and draw less current than traditional Class AB designs. They use output transistors as switches to control power distribution — the transistors "turn off" when there is too much voltage across them. Class D amplifiers produce higher distortion than AB designs due to the high-speed switching on and off of the transistors, but this distortion occurs at high frequencies that are typically removed by a low-pass filter.
* Class T amplifiers are bit expensive and provide the sort of sonic advantages of conventional Class AB designs, combined with the high power efficiency and low heat production of a Class D design. Class T amps are able to generate 2-4 times more power than a comparably-sized Class AB amp.
Raghu
bgmikeseay on 03/9/2008 16:15:18
Ash,
Here's a better discription of what I'm work'n with. I have a DEN-P6800mp Pioneer head unit,a KEQ5 ARC Audio EQ, a 300watt 2ch Fosgate for mids/highs,a ZX400.1 Kicker Amp, and two 10" JL Audio W1's wired in a series to put it all at about 2ohms. I hope this will help, I've never had this problem before. Origionally I was think'n that the amp gain was too high but was'nt sure.
swez on 03/9/2008 16:18:59
Nice piece there Raghu! (A very good review of amplifier technologies used in most car audio products)
This audible thump mentioned is often created by poor grounding of all audio signal components in the chain.
1. HU grounding (Dedicated ground needed for Aftermarket HU's)
2. Signal Processors grounds and output levels
3. Amp gains settings and soft on/off noise suppression circuits
As Ash mentioned, a process of elimination is often used to determine the culprit. If the amp and HU are grounded properly and the amp gain is set correctly, we usually don't have thumps and pops at turn on/off.
When adding an outboard signal processor between them, it is important to adjust amp gain and signal output levels from the processor to match. Depending on where the processor is located, use the same ground location as the amp or HU to limit or eliminate such noise.
Swez
bgmikeseay on 03/9/2008 16:35:34
Raghu,
Thank you for the info about the different class ratings, I've been installing my own system's and occasionally a friend's for years, but never knew about the different rating's and what they ment. I appretiate the help,
Victor on 03/9/2008 16:53:59
At last another indian... after 5 years...... Welcome to CK raghu.... COFFEE....
Lets give the credit to that piece of information to Crutchfield ....
Raghu on 03/10/2008 00:46:15
Yep! You are right. That & the12volt.com are my learning centers!
Raghu on 03/10/2008 01:31:52
Yet another useful info. on class of amp. , deep into technicals:
http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/ampclasses.html
Victor on 03/10/2008 01:47:20
what part of the country are you from???
Raghu on 03/10/2008 01:55:58
From Bangalore, Karnataka. How about you?
Victor on 03/10/2008 02:00:56
Gujarat....Ahmedabad.. guess we are stealing someones post...
if you got a real time id on yahoo or msn messenger we cud catch up there for a while...
my msn id is victorexports@hotmail.com and yahoo is victorginger@yahoo.com
bgmikeseay on 03/10/2008 13:23:01
Well I turned down the gain on my amp and I ended up getting rid of the pop, but NO gain!! I had to turn it pretty-much completely off, does this mean the input gains on my EQ are too high?
SQLThump on 03/10/2008 17:04:19
Mike, from this point, I would go through and make sure all the grounds for your H/U, EQ, and sub amp to make sure everything is up to snuff. Make sure each is grounded to the bare metal of the car body (remove all paint and whatnot), the grounds for H/U and EQ are not connected into the stock wiring, but more like an amp.
I also reccomend keeping ground points as short as possible, some say up to 3 feet is okay, but I try yo keep it at a foot or less. The ground for my upper range amp is only 3.5 inches long!
Good choice on the Kicker ZX400.1 BTW. That amp packs a good amount of sound in one hell of a small package.
Ash on 03/10/2008 17:06:19
That is a class D amp and a rather nice one. It's low level (rca) input is limited to 5 volts which isn't bad, but make sure it isn't exceeded. When running the maximum voltage to it the gain will be set quite low. This may seem bad, but is actually good for the amp's longevity and clean output. That amp puts out 400rms watts in a 2 ohm load which exceeds the 125 (250 total) thermal handling of the subs, so be careful on the volume.
As for the JL W1's, they came in either 4 or 8 ohms. You should have a pair of the 4's wired in "parallel" or the 8 ohms paralleled will work with that amp too. This would be both subs positive ran to the positive on the amp and negatives to negative. Saying that you got a net 2 ohms would be ran as such, you maybe just have the naming wrong. Series wiring with the 4 ohms will work decent on the Kicker with about 100 rms going to each. You still want to check that to make sure you are getting the proper output.
As far as the Arc eq, it has a volume knob that will control it's output. You may need a digital multimeter to read it's output to make sure the amps input capabilities is not exceeded. A very nice eq, but it can easily cause trouble if the output is not known.
Like Swez states, check for good grounds as that is what it sounds like may be the problem. You should have plenty voltage to drive your system to it's limits easily. Take the time to set it up right and you shouldn't have any problems.
cplkittle on 03/10/2008 23:04:56
ON / OFF pops are generally caused by multiple components powering on at different times. I would try turning them on at different times and see if the pop is still there. Turn on the radio, then the EQ. If there is no pop, use the radio's remote wire to trigger a relay to power on the EQ.
If you turn on the EQ then the radio to avoid the pop, you can wire the radio power on the EQ's remote wire through a relay.
Here is how you will wire the relay:
http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page5.asp#rtol
I see you found us, Raghu. Welcome to CK!
Replies (16)
bgmikeseay on 03/9/2008 00:10:20
2001 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
Ash on 03/9/2008 08:05:24
There are several things that can cause that and since you have added a EQ it can definitely add to the mix. If you disconnect the EQ from the amp will it still do it?
Check to see if the all components have a good ground. Make sure the amp's gain isn't set too high. If the eq is able to put out that much voltage you want to make sure the amp's input is compatible. The eq's voltage isn't 9 volts all the time, only if driven to the max, but if the output exceeds the limits of the amps input there could be trouble there. Turn the amp's gain down to see if it improves.
What model amp is the kicker? Could be possible that it doesn't have turn off mute. That may not be a problem with normal installs, but the more electronics you add in the chain certain things will reveal themselves.
What are you running for a head unit? Give full details of the whole system so someone can try to track down what's going on....
Ash,
Raghu on 03/9/2008 14:55:06
You really need to measure the volts on amp. input. Accordingly, you need to set gain on your amp.
Regarding amp. classes, the following details may help: (credit: crutchfield.com)
Amplifiers are categorized into different classes based on their performance characteristics. Each class determines a specific design employed in the amp circuitry. And each design has different performance characteristics such as, power dissipation (in the form of heat) and distortion characteristics determining the efficiency of an amp.
* Class A amplifiers are desirable for the high quality of their sound but inefficient and runs very hot. This is because even when there is no audio signal, the output transistor(s) always have current running through them. The current flowing through the output transistor(s) (with no audio signal) causes the amp to heat up unnecessarily, and "waste" input energy. Most car amplifiers that boast "Class A" circuitry are really Class A/Class AB hybrids.
* Class AB amplifiers are most commonly available amp design. They allow current to run through the output transistors when there is no audio signal, but at a much lower level. A class AB amplifier runs cooler, and therefore, more efficiently than a class A, with low distortion and high reliability.
* Class D amplifiers boast higher efficiency, produce less heat, and draw less current than traditional Class AB designs. They use output transistors as switches to control power distribution — the transistors "turn off" when there is too much voltage across them. Class D amplifiers produce higher distortion than AB designs due to the high-speed switching on and off of the transistors, but this distortion occurs at high frequencies that are typically removed by a low-pass filter.
* Class T amplifiers are bit expensive and provide the sort of sonic advantages of conventional Class AB designs, combined with the high power efficiency and low heat production of a Class D design. Class T amps are able to generate 2-4 times more power than a comparably-sized Class AB amp.
Raghu
bgmikeseay on 03/9/2008 16:15:18
Ash,
Here's a better discription of what I'm work'n with. I have a DEN-P6800mp Pioneer head unit,a KEQ5 ARC Audio EQ, a 300watt 2ch Fosgate for mids/highs,a ZX400.1 Kicker Amp, and two 10" JL Audio W1's wired in a series to put it all at about 2ohms. I hope this will help, I've never had this problem before. Origionally I was think'n that the amp gain was too high but was'nt sure.
swez on 03/9/2008 16:18:59
Nice piece there Raghu! (A very good review of amplifier technologies used in most car audio products)
This audible thump mentioned is often created by poor grounding of all audio signal components in the chain.
1. HU grounding (Dedicated ground needed for Aftermarket HU's)
2. Signal Processors grounds and output levels
3. Amp gains settings and soft on/off noise suppression circuits
As Ash mentioned, a process of elimination is often used to determine the culprit. If the amp and HU are grounded properly and the amp gain is set correctly, we usually don't have thumps and pops at turn on/off.
When adding an outboard signal processor between them, it is important to adjust amp gain and signal output levels from the processor to match. Depending on where the processor is located, use the same ground location as the amp or HU to limit or eliminate such noise.
Swez
bgmikeseay on 03/9/2008 16:35:34
Raghu,
Thank you for the info about the different class ratings, I've been installing my own system's and occasionally a friend's for years, but never knew about the different rating's and what they ment. I appretiate the help,
Victor on 03/9/2008 16:53:59
At last another indian... after 5 years...... Welcome to CK raghu.... COFFEE....
Lets give the credit to that piece of information to Crutchfield ....
Raghu on 03/10/2008 00:46:15
Yep! You are right. That & the12volt.com are my learning centers!
Raghu on 03/10/2008 01:31:52
Yet another useful info. on class of amp. , deep into technicals:
http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/ampclasses.html
Victor on 03/10/2008 01:47:20
what part of the country are you from???
Raghu on 03/10/2008 01:55:58
From Bangalore, Karnataka. How about you?
Victor on 03/10/2008 02:00:56
Gujarat....Ahmedabad.. guess we are stealing someones post...
if you got a real time id on yahoo or msn messenger we cud catch up there for a while...
my msn id is victorexports@hotmail.com and yahoo is victorginger@yahoo.com
bgmikeseay on 03/10/2008 13:23:01
Well I turned down the gain on my amp and I ended up getting rid of the pop, but NO gain!! I had to turn it pretty-much completely off, does this mean the input gains on my EQ are too high?
SQLThump on 03/10/2008 17:04:19
Mike, from this point, I would go through and make sure all the grounds for your H/U, EQ, and sub amp to make sure everything is up to snuff. Make sure each is grounded to the bare metal of the car body (remove all paint and whatnot), the grounds for H/U and EQ are not connected into the stock wiring, but more like an amp.
I also reccomend keeping ground points as short as possible, some say up to 3 feet is okay, but I try yo keep it at a foot or less. The ground for my upper range amp is only 3.5 inches long!
Good choice on the Kicker ZX400.1 BTW. That amp packs a good amount of sound in one hell of a small package.
Ash on 03/10/2008 17:06:19
That is a class D amp and a rather nice one. It's low level (rca) input is limited to 5 volts which isn't bad, but make sure it isn't exceeded. When running the maximum voltage to it the gain will be set quite low. This may seem bad, but is actually good for the amp's longevity and clean output. That amp puts out 400rms watts in a 2 ohm load which exceeds the 125 (250 total) thermal handling of the subs, so be careful on the volume.
As for the JL W1's, they came in either 4 or 8 ohms. You should have a pair of the 4's wired in "parallel" or the 8 ohms paralleled will work with that amp too. This would be both subs positive ran to the positive on the amp and negatives to negative. Saying that you got a net 2 ohms would be ran as such, you maybe just have the naming wrong. Series wiring with the 4 ohms will work decent on the Kicker with about 100 rms going to each. You still want to check that to make sure you are getting the proper output.
As far as the Arc eq, it has a volume knob that will control it's output. You may need a digital multimeter to read it's output to make sure the amps input capabilities is not exceeded. A very nice eq, but it can easily cause trouble if the output is not known.
Like Swez states, check for good grounds as that is what it sounds like may be the problem. You should have plenty voltage to drive your system to it's limits easily. Take the time to set it up right and you shouldn't have any problems.
cplkittle on 03/10/2008 23:04:56
ON / OFF pops are generally caused by multiple components powering on at different times. I would try turning them on at different times and see if the pop is still there. Turn on the radio, then the EQ. If there is no pop, use the radio's remote wire to trigger a relay to power on the EQ.
If you turn on the EQ then the radio to avoid the pop, you can wire the radio power on the EQ's remote wire through a relay.
Here is how you will wire the relay:
http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page5.asp#rtol
I see you found us, Raghu. Welcome to CK!
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