Before school anyway. Yours truely is heading off for a crash course in electrical engineering. That's another topic though.
Slowly but surely I've been gaining all the knowledge I need for an active setup, and I've actually been active for a few months now. I'm now looking for some serious upgrades from what I have and to take my car to a very competative level.
Currently running:
Dayton RS28 tweeters
Dayton RS180 mids
Pro Box 12"
RF Power 1000
Spare parts-
Rockford 200-2
Polk SR6500 component set
Polk SR crossovers
I've convinced myself to delve into the fabrication alot more than what I have been, and put some Image Dynamics 8" woofers in the doors (1 in each). Both would be in .35 ft^3 sealed, the recommended for the ID8 v.3. http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/tech_page.php?name=ID8D4%20V.3&type=sub&id=id
I'm looking at the Seas W18NX for the mids : http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=173&products_id=1596
And a couple of Scan Speak D3004/6600's for tweets : http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=148&products_id=1738
I happened across a Pioneer PRS 880 for cheap, so I took it. I've got a very large order of sound deadening coming my way (shipping was expensive!!!), as well as quite a few yards of closed cell foam for extra absorbtion. I got enough to do a very large car, which I do not have, so I think I'll be golden there. Later this week comes the Big 3, and the deadener install.
There's a good chance I'll be needing some help in the deep deep bass, and it just so happens I'm on the trail of an IDQ15.
Anybody see any problems with this?
Replies (10)
cplkittle on 02/26/2008 22:47:47
wear old clothes if you are installing dynamat or the equivalent tar backed aluminum, and lay it out in the sun to warm it up before installing it. It sticks better when it is hot.
Sounds like a really well balanced SQ system.
Grdevs24zero on 02/27/2008 17:42:11
It's RAAMat actually, and it's sposed to be in the high 60's all week. Thanks for the sun tip, I hadn't thought of that. I will probably have to go in stages though, since my other DD is currently down from a water pump failure.
On my way home from work (~ 1 hour drive) I was thinking hard about driver placement. There just happens to be a nice little cutout where the sail panel would be on other cars that should house the Scan tweets nicely. I might have to re-route the defroster vent or block it entirely to keep it from blowing on the tweeters however.
I've always wanted to try mids in the kicks, but being that the factory fuse box and ECU are in each kick panel, it doesn't leave me alot of room to play with. Well I thought about removing the dead pedal and placing a mid in it's own enclosure there. After a little measureing I think it'll work out, the only problem I see is sealing it. I will probably have to make a fiberglass and MDF enclosure for it, both on the drivers' side and passenger's side.
The subs however can fit in the door with just a 3/4 ring while I can still roll the windows down. But I'm going to stick to the .35 sealed thing and make pods or build the enclosure inside the door itself.
For weeks I was thinking about how I was going to pull this off but something clicked today and I can see it pretty clearly.
ttocs on 02/29/2008 19:08:22
the only problem I see so far is powering the rf power 1000.... is that the old school beast? that thing will suck your alt and battery dry...
What kind of car? Are you going to be building enclosures for the 8's? With out a half descent enclosure I don't think you will get much more out of the 8's then you could with a good 6.5. I am running a 3 way diamond audio hex set that I built kicks for and an enclosure for the 6.5 in my door.
you can see my system at cardomain,com, ride#2395420
Grdevs24zero on 02/29/2008 22:58:27
It's the 25 to life version, at higher-than-tolerable listening levels at idle I'm sitting at 13.6. Engine off I'm around 12.4, and as long as I keep my headlights off (when the engine is off) it doesn't drain too much. Just got through a 2 hour tuning session actually, and never saw a serious voltage drop or dimming lights.
Car is a 1991 Nissan 240SX, or I may build this in my 300ZX, I'm not sure anymore.
Both 8's will be in the doors with their own sealed enclosures at .35 cubic feet. Both mids will be in the kick area (but not in the kick panels) in their own sealed enclosures, sized to whatever driver I go with. The tweeters will fit nicely in the bottom of the a-pillars in either car.
BTW, the birth sheet of the 1000:
69.771% efficiency
109 RMS @ 4 ohms x 4 channels
573 RMS @ 2 ohms x 2 front and rear bridged
676 RMS @ 1 ohm x 2 front and rear bridged
693 @ 2 ohms x 1 subwoofer channel
926 RMS @ 1 ohm x 1 subwoofer channel
Tests were done at 14.4 volts, so a better battery and/or a higher output alternator would bring me closer to tech specs. As is sits though, it can easily get loud enough to cause permanent hearing damage.
ttocs on 02/29/2008 23:56:43
you should really try to get all you speakers as close as possible to allow the imaging to be the best. With the tweeter in the sail panel that speaker is 3 foot from you on the drivers side and 6 foot on the pass side... IT is a great location to raise the soundstage as well as ruin the imaging if you are not carefull.
Grdevs24zero on 03/1/2008 13:01:22
I have noticed, even with time-alignment, the sound is more left-biased. I will experiment today with different angles and locations, so far it's just been the A-pillars and doors, with the A's sounding best.
SQLThump on 03/1/2008 21:40:56
In a personal opinion, mounting the midrange in the dead pedal area sounds kind of sketchy. The main issue I see is the mid having ability to reach your ear with all the things like passengers legs, the steering wheel/column and the center console blocking the way.
As with the tweets in the A pillar, this I think is a good way to go, so I located my tweets there personally, as well as the 8's in the doors, which I want to do. For the midrange, i would recommend somewhere in between the tweet and midbass, like higher up on the door than the 8's or something.
ttocs on 03/1/2008 22:11:26
see, exactly what I was talking about. No matter how you adjust the balence and fader that tweeter is almost 2X closer to your ear then the other speakers. I lost my dead pedal to make my kicks but in doing this, you move that tweeter on the driver side down closer to the speaker and further from your ear while the passenger side does not go much further away from you. It did take some adjusting to get use to either sliding my clutch foot back towards teh seat or slide it under the pedal. And as mentioned by sql you will have to deal with imaging problems when your passengers get their feet in the way but personally I am normally alone in my car and the gain in imaging for doing this is worth it imo.
SQLThump on 03/1/2008 22:14:00
Agree totally on the speakers being placed as close as possible too, but fortunately, my 5.25's fit right in the stock locations on the top of the pancake flat dash, facking upward, so tweeter A pillar mount is only about 2 inches away. Imaging rocks!!
Grdevs24zero on 03/2/2008 19:32:07
I got the idea for the kicks from this install:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29688
I do have a center console that runs up to the dash, so it's not open air like his truck. I drive without a passenger often enough to consider it though, so I think I'll go ahead and build the enclosures and if I don't like em at least I can say I tried it.
Slowly but surely I've been gaining all the knowledge I need for an active setup, and I've actually been active for a few months now. I'm now looking for some serious upgrades from what I have and to take my car to a very competative level.
Currently running:
Dayton RS28 tweeters
Dayton RS180 mids
Pro Box 12"
RF Power 1000
Spare parts-
Rockford 200-2
Polk SR6500 component set
Polk SR crossovers
I've convinced myself to delve into the fabrication alot more than what I have been, and put some Image Dynamics 8" woofers in the doors (1 in each). Both would be in .35 ft^3 sealed, the recommended for the ID8 v.3. http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/tech_page.php?name=ID8D4%20V.3&type=sub&id=id
I'm looking at the Seas W18NX for the mids : http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=173&products_id=1596
And a couple of Scan Speak D3004/6600's for tweets : http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=148&products_id=1738
I happened across a Pioneer PRS 880 for cheap, so I took it. I've got a very large order of sound deadening coming my way (shipping was expensive!!!), as well as quite a few yards of closed cell foam for extra absorbtion. I got enough to do a very large car, which I do not have, so I think I'll be golden there. Later this week comes the Big 3, and the deadener install.
There's a good chance I'll be needing some help in the deep deep bass, and it just so happens I'm on the trail of an IDQ15.
Anybody see any problems with this?
Replies (10)
cplkittle on 02/26/2008 22:47:47
wear old clothes if you are installing dynamat or the equivalent tar backed aluminum, and lay it out in the sun to warm it up before installing it. It sticks better when it is hot.
Sounds like a really well balanced SQ system.
Grdevs24zero on 02/27/2008 17:42:11
It's RAAMat actually, and it's sposed to be in the high 60's all week. Thanks for the sun tip, I hadn't thought of that. I will probably have to go in stages though, since my other DD is currently down from a water pump failure.
On my way home from work (~ 1 hour drive) I was thinking hard about driver placement. There just happens to be a nice little cutout where the sail panel would be on other cars that should house the Scan tweets nicely. I might have to re-route the defroster vent or block it entirely to keep it from blowing on the tweeters however.
I've always wanted to try mids in the kicks, but being that the factory fuse box and ECU are in each kick panel, it doesn't leave me alot of room to play with. Well I thought about removing the dead pedal and placing a mid in it's own enclosure there. After a little measureing I think it'll work out, the only problem I see is sealing it. I will probably have to make a fiberglass and MDF enclosure for it, both on the drivers' side and passenger's side.
The subs however can fit in the door with just a 3/4 ring while I can still roll the windows down. But I'm going to stick to the .35 sealed thing and make pods or build the enclosure inside the door itself.
For weeks I was thinking about how I was going to pull this off but something clicked today and I can see it pretty clearly.
ttocs on 02/29/2008 19:08:22
the only problem I see so far is powering the rf power 1000.... is that the old school beast? that thing will suck your alt and battery dry...
What kind of car? Are you going to be building enclosures for the 8's? With out a half descent enclosure I don't think you will get much more out of the 8's then you could with a good 6.5. I am running a 3 way diamond audio hex set that I built kicks for and an enclosure for the 6.5 in my door.
you can see my system at cardomain,com, ride#2395420
Grdevs24zero on 02/29/2008 22:58:27
It's the 25 to life version, at higher-than-tolerable listening levels at idle I'm sitting at 13.6. Engine off I'm around 12.4, and as long as I keep my headlights off (when the engine is off) it doesn't drain too much. Just got through a 2 hour tuning session actually, and never saw a serious voltage drop or dimming lights.
Car is a 1991 Nissan 240SX, or I may build this in my 300ZX, I'm not sure anymore.
Both 8's will be in the doors with their own sealed enclosures at .35 cubic feet. Both mids will be in the kick area (but not in the kick panels) in their own sealed enclosures, sized to whatever driver I go with. The tweeters will fit nicely in the bottom of the a-pillars in either car.
BTW, the birth sheet of the 1000:
69.771% efficiency
109 RMS @ 4 ohms x 4 channels
573 RMS @ 2 ohms x 2 front and rear bridged
676 RMS @ 1 ohm x 2 front and rear bridged
693 @ 2 ohms x 1 subwoofer channel
926 RMS @ 1 ohm x 1 subwoofer channel
Tests were done at 14.4 volts, so a better battery and/or a higher output alternator would bring me closer to tech specs. As is sits though, it can easily get loud enough to cause permanent hearing damage.
ttocs on 02/29/2008 23:56:43
you should really try to get all you speakers as close as possible to allow the imaging to be the best. With the tweeter in the sail panel that speaker is 3 foot from you on the drivers side and 6 foot on the pass side... IT is a great location to raise the soundstage as well as ruin the imaging if you are not carefull.
Grdevs24zero on 03/1/2008 13:01:22
I have noticed, even with time-alignment, the sound is more left-biased. I will experiment today with different angles and locations, so far it's just been the A-pillars and doors, with the A's sounding best.
SQLThump on 03/1/2008 21:40:56
In a personal opinion, mounting the midrange in the dead pedal area sounds kind of sketchy. The main issue I see is the mid having ability to reach your ear with all the things like passengers legs, the steering wheel/column and the center console blocking the way.
As with the tweets in the A pillar, this I think is a good way to go, so I located my tweets there personally, as well as the 8's in the doors, which I want to do. For the midrange, i would recommend somewhere in between the tweet and midbass, like higher up on the door than the 8's or something.
ttocs on 03/1/2008 22:11:26
see, exactly what I was talking about. No matter how you adjust the balence and fader that tweeter is almost 2X closer to your ear then the other speakers. I lost my dead pedal to make my kicks but in doing this, you move that tweeter on the driver side down closer to the speaker and further from your ear while the passenger side does not go much further away from you. It did take some adjusting to get use to either sliding my clutch foot back towards teh seat or slide it under the pedal. And as mentioned by sql you will have to deal with imaging problems when your passengers get their feet in the way but personally I am normally alone in my car and the gain in imaging for doing this is worth it imo.
SQLThump on 03/1/2008 22:14:00
Agree totally on the speakers being placed as close as possible too, but fortunately, my 5.25's fit right in the stock locations on the top of the pancake flat dash, facking upward, so tweeter A pillar mount is only about 2 inches away. Imaging rocks!!
Grdevs24zero on 03/2/2008 19:32:07
I got the idea for the kicks from this install:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29688
I do have a center console that runs up to the dash, so it's not open air like his truck. I drive without a passenger often enough to consider it though, so I think I'll go ahead and build the enclosures and if I don't like em at least I can say I tried it.
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