Hey i've always loved music esp the electronic part but the math part is confusing. I have 2, 15'' kicker l7s dvc 4 ohm each coil @ 1000w per speaker (they are connected to give the amp a 2 ohm load). run by 1 2000w american pro amp(rated @ 2 ohm). They both are in one sealed enclosure. But the base isn't satisfactory. Could you guys help?
Also i have a 400w 4 channel American legacy mid amp but dont no what speakers is best to keep up with my base. I am currently using 2 , 6*9'' audiopipe 3 ways @ 500w each and 2, pyramid dome bullet tweeters @ 250w each. Is this recomended???
Replies (11)
rjuan on 02/22/2008 08:10:23
i dont have a car. I have a toyota rz minibus.
ttocs on 02/22/2008 11:32:46
just curious, where are you located?
If you enjoy stereos it will stick with you and the math will come with experience. You have 2k watts to 2 - 15" subs and the bass isn't satisfying, hmmmm..... What part of it do you not enjoy? Have you considered any kind of EQ to help you shape the signal to what you want? A good EQ with a subwoofer output can make a big difference. I had that little kenwood 5-band with sub out(wow, 15 yrs ago and they still make it) and loved it. Also look into a bass cube by pheonix gold. It is a single band parametric EQ that allows you to EQ only the bass, and give it a big boost. With any EQ you need to be carefull not to give any signal too much but i fused right then can help.
swez on 02/23/2008 09:01:11
What model number Americal Pro amp are you using here?
Also, these subs love huge ported/sealed boxes to get the best SPL/SQL performance from them. Yes, one can use a larger sealed box too, but the power ratings of the amp and enclosure internal airspace makes all the difference for a Kicker's L7 subs.
Swez
PS Depending on the amp used and sub wiring configuration used for these subs, have a 1 or 4 ohm sub wiring load option availble.
1. Class D MONO amp, 1 ohm stable is preferred (2000 watts RMS)
2. Class A/B 2 channel amp, 2 ohms per channel or 4 ohms stable in nridged mode are the 2 main options
Say more please...
newB on 02/23/2008 18:17:24
im just curious how he is getting net 2ohm load from two dual 4ohm woofers lol.
-Drew
swez on 02/23/2008 19:38:58
Quote: "im just curious how he is getting net 2ohm load from two dual 4ohm woofers lol."
He can't get 2 ohm in any traditional wiring configuration.
1. When using a 2 channel amp in stereo mode, each channel can get 2 ohms per sub and each sub has its own channel. That's the only way to do this. An option, but power consumption VS actual power to subs is not very efficient. (40% amp efficiency lost to heat)
2. On the other hand, he can also bridge a 2 channel amp to mono and wire the subs for a safe 4 ohm load too. (Same problem here, low efficiency)
3. The best option is a Class D amp that is 1 ohm stable. This allows the user to wire all coils in parallel for a net 1 ohm load. (Class D amps are about 80% efficient ans only 20% power losses to heat)
Finally, any amp that is truly able to produce 2000 watts of Continous/RMS power will draw huge current loads at full power. For a Class D amp to produce the rated wattage, (2,000 watts RMS output) it will consume roughly 2,500 watts of power. If we assume a 13.5 volt power source, the current draw at full power is: 2,500/13.5 = 185 A's of current. The fuses on such an amp would be more like 50A's x 4 or 100A's x 2. That requires a very major electrical upgrade to any vehicle and probably at least 2 dedicated batteries as current buffers.
Swez COFFEE
newB on 02/24/2008 02:21:16
sorry! i made the mistake of assuming that he had a 2k watt mono Class D amp and claimed to have a net 2ohm load from two dual 4ohm woofers. i wish people would look at the fuse ratings before claiming a 10,000watt amp does rated, if it says a thousand watts and has a single 40amp fuse you are not getting 1k.
-Drew
swez on 02/24/2008 08:38:23
Looked up a few amps from American Pro and noted these were all 2/4 channel amps. The one that is probably on the table for discussion, is the VS-2044. (1200 watts stated on the specs, but w/o a fuse rating, it's difficult to tell what the dual fuse ratings are by the pic)
http://www.americanproaudio.com/amplifiers.html
Swez
newB on 02/24/2008 15:24:53
am i crazy or does it display a 4 channel next to the 2ch specs?
-Drew
swez on 02/24/2008 15:51:45
From the looks of all amps shown in their website, they all look like 4 channel models on the side that is shown in the picture.
That suggests to me that they all share some common parts and profiles to keep costs low. The box and chassis are pretty much the same, but the amp guts and internal board parts can be modified for more power or made as 4 channel units. Just swap a few boards, change the stickers on the case and viola, you have a one size chassis that can be used in several configurations? Goofy shortcuts if ya ask me?
Swez
PS It would be interesting to test that theory and test the amp specs too.
rjuan on 02/29/2008 22:13:12
just to clear a few things up.
Im from Guyana, only south american country with english as its native language.
This is my amp ---
http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cluster?q=american+pro+2000+watts&pid=4918632187040469345&oid=13251907156733812287&btnG=Search+Froogle&scoring=mrd
and it has a 80amp fuse
I currently dont have an upgraded power supply but not plaaing to get a better alternator. I do plan though, to add a base capacitor or a few batteries.
The base that comes from the sealed enclosure is VERRRRY loud in my vehicle but can bearley be hear outside.
What can i do to get optimal SQL SPl performance??
I have to specs from kicker printed out for the vented street base and SPL enclosure but debating wheater to build it myself or go to a professional.
Can i just build 2 new enclosures? One sealed and one vented.
If i do this would i need a better amp or maybe 2 better amps?
swez on 03/2/2008 10:50:35
Chances are very good that this amp will not produce what these subs are actually capable of.
Into a 4 ohm load and bridged or each sub wired at 2 ohms and one channel each, they may see about 300-350 watts of Continous power before the amp runs out of gas and heavy distortion sets in. (Amp is clipping badly as the power supply system cannot do anymore)
Here, it would be ideal to have two Class D amps that can deliver a clean 1000 watts Continous power to each sub. (Each sub is wired 2 ohms and has its own amp)
That is expensive and feeding each amp enough power, will be a real challenge too. Forget "Surge Caps" here and consider using 2 larger capacity batteries as "Current Buffers". (One for each amp) Using a "Solinoid type" battery isolator charging device would also be a good option too.
Do you know the "Current Output Capacity" of the present ALT in this Mini-bus? If this vehicle is fitted with a Commercial/Industrial grade ALT of 200 A's or higher, it might do the trick. If not, there are a few choices to consider:
1. Scale back to 1 robust amp and one sub (Ported box will give the most bass SPL... low 140's dB of Bass SPL is pretty solid)
2. Bite the bullet, upgrade the entire charging system and plan to spend a good deal of time/money in the process (Expensive and very time consuming to get the most from these subs)
3. Plan the project well from the desired "end-results" to where things are now (We can guide you, but plan on a long and expensive progression for this process)
Swez
PS
Welcome to CK! SMILE We've had a few people from South Africa visit this board. The hard part in supporting your efforts will be what products are available in your region and cost factors to reach the desired results.
Also i have a 400w 4 channel American legacy mid amp but dont no what speakers is best to keep up with my base. I am currently using 2 , 6*9'' audiopipe 3 ways @ 500w each and 2, pyramid dome bullet tweeters @ 250w each. Is this recomended???
Replies (11)
rjuan on 02/22/2008 08:10:23
i dont have a car. I have a toyota rz minibus.
ttocs on 02/22/2008 11:32:46
just curious, where are you located?
If you enjoy stereos it will stick with you and the math will come with experience. You have 2k watts to 2 - 15" subs and the bass isn't satisfying, hmmmm..... What part of it do you not enjoy? Have you considered any kind of EQ to help you shape the signal to what you want? A good EQ with a subwoofer output can make a big difference. I had that little kenwood 5-band with sub out(wow, 15 yrs ago and they still make it) and loved it. Also look into a bass cube by pheonix gold. It is a single band parametric EQ that allows you to EQ only the bass, and give it a big boost. With any EQ you need to be carefull not to give any signal too much but i fused right then can help.
swez on 02/23/2008 09:01:11
What model number Americal Pro amp are you using here?
Also, these subs love huge ported/sealed boxes to get the best SPL/SQL performance from them. Yes, one can use a larger sealed box too, but the power ratings of the amp and enclosure internal airspace makes all the difference for a Kicker's L7 subs.
Swez
PS Depending on the amp used and sub wiring configuration used for these subs, have a 1 or 4 ohm sub wiring load option availble.
1. Class D MONO amp, 1 ohm stable is preferred (2000 watts RMS)
2. Class A/B 2 channel amp, 2 ohms per channel or 4 ohms stable in nridged mode are the 2 main options
Say more please...
newB on 02/23/2008 18:17:24
im just curious how he is getting net 2ohm load from two dual 4ohm woofers lol.
-Drew
swez on 02/23/2008 19:38:58
Quote: "im just curious how he is getting net 2ohm load from two dual 4ohm woofers lol."
He can't get 2 ohm in any traditional wiring configuration.
1. When using a 2 channel amp in stereo mode, each channel can get 2 ohms per sub and each sub has its own channel. That's the only way to do this. An option, but power consumption VS actual power to subs is not very efficient. (40% amp efficiency lost to heat)
2. On the other hand, he can also bridge a 2 channel amp to mono and wire the subs for a safe 4 ohm load too. (Same problem here, low efficiency)
3. The best option is a Class D amp that is 1 ohm stable. This allows the user to wire all coils in parallel for a net 1 ohm load. (Class D amps are about 80% efficient ans only 20% power losses to heat)
Finally, any amp that is truly able to produce 2000 watts of Continous/RMS power will draw huge current loads at full power. For a Class D amp to produce the rated wattage, (2,000 watts RMS output) it will consume roughly 2,500 watts of power. If we assume a 13.5 volt power source, the current draw at full power is: 2,500/13.5 = 185 A's of current. The fuses on such an amp would be more like 50A's x 4 or 100A's x 2. That requires a very major electrical upgrade to any vehicle and probably at least 2 dedicated batteries as current buffers.
Swez COFFEE
newB on 02/24/2008 02:21:16
sorry! i made the mistake of assuming that he had a 2k watt mono Class D amp and claimed to have a net 2ohm load from two dual 4ohm woofers. i wish people would look at the fuse ratings before claiming a 10,000watt amp does rated, if it says a thousand watts and has a single 40amp fuse you are not getting 1k.
-Drew
swez on 02/24/2008 08:38:23
Looked up a few amps from American Pro and noted these were all 2/4 channel amps. The one that is probably on the table for discussion, is the VS-2044. (1200 watts stated on the specs, but w/o a fuse rating, it's difficult to tell what the dual fuse ratings are by the pic)
http://www.americanproaudio.com/amplifiers.html
Swez
newB on 02/24/2008 15:24:53
am i crazy or does it display a 4 channel next to the 2ch specs?
-Drew
swez on 02/24/2008 15:51:45
From the looks of all amps shown in their website, they all look like 4 channel models on the side that is shown in the picture.
That suggests to me that they all share some common parts and profiles to keep costs low. The box and chassis are pretty much the same, but the amp guts and internal board parts can be modified for more power or made as 4 channel units. Just swap a few boards, change the stickers on the case and viola, you have a one size chassis that can be used in several configurations? Goofy shortcuts if ya ask me?
Swez
PS It would be interesting to test that theory and test the amp specs too.
rjuan on 02/29/2008 22:13:12
just to clear a few things up.
Im from Guyana, only south american country with english as its native language.
This is my amp ---
http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cluster?q=american+pro+2000+watts&pid=4918632187040469345&oid=13251907156733812287&btnG=Search+Froogle&scoring=mrd
and it has a 80amp fuse
I currently dont have an upgraded power supply but not plaaing to get a better alternator. I do plan though, to add a base capacitor or a few batteries.
The base that comes from the sealed enclosure is VERRRRY loud in my vehicle but can bearley be hear outside.
What can i do to get optimal SQL SPl performance??
I have to specs from kicker printed out for the vented street base and SPL enclosure but debating wheater to build it myself or go to a professional.
Can i just build 2 new enclosures? One sealed and one vented.
If i do this would i need a better amp or maybe 2 better amps?
swez on 03/2/2008 10:50:35
Chances are very good that this amp will not produce what these subs are actually capable of.
Into a 4 ohm load and bridged or each sub wired at 2 ohms and one channel each, they may see about 300-350 watts of Continous power before the amp runs out of gas and heavy distortion sets in. (Amp is clipping badly as the power supply system cannot do anymore)
Here, it would be ideal to have two Class D amps that can deliver a clean 1000 watts Continous power to each sub. (Each sub is wired 2 ohms and has its own amp)
That is expensive and feeding each amp enough power, will be a real challenge too. Forget "Surge Caps" here and consider using 2 larger capacity batteries as "Current Buffers". (One for each amp) Using a "Solinoid type" battery isolator charging device would also be a good option too.
Do you know the "Current Output Capacity" of the present ALT in this Mini-bus? If this vehicle is fitted with a Commercial/Industrial grade ALT of 200 A's or higher, it might do the trick. If not, there are a few choices to consider:
1. Scale back to 1 robust amp and one sub (Ported box will give the most bass SPL... low 140's dB of Bass SPL is pretty solid)
2. Bite the bullet, upgrade the entire charging system and plan to spend a good deal of time/money in the process (Expensive and very time consuming to get the most from these subs)
3. Plan the project well from the desired "end-results" to where things are now (We can guide you, but plan on a long and expensive progression for this process)
Swez
PS
Welcome to CK! SMILE We've had a few people from South Africa visit this board. The hard part in supporting your efforts will be what products are available in your region and cost factors to reach the desired results.
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