so all my projects have been for friends or customers, and my experiments have all been taken away so i think i'm finally going to sit down and draw up a new box for MY car. something i can enjoy for months and months to come.
rather than building for a box to fit through my trunk, i can get far more volume from inserting through the door/cabin of the car and sliding it into place through the dropped down back seats. this is draft #1 and the baffle is not slanted like it potentially will be, and its also not shown with a double baffle, that of which the final will have.
all the Gold input would be awesome!!
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/saxwonder05/FirstDraft1.png
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/saxwonder05/FirstDraft2.png
box external is: 15x24x29
Gross internal volume is: 4.8cuft
net internal cuft is: ~4cuft
port is: 2.5x22.5x23 @ 36hz
box is for two 10s
"Questions? Comments? COFFEE"
-Drew
Replies (8)
swez on 02/16/2008 09:50:13
Got the idea and like the renderings too.
The trick here is to match the box to meet the subs needs. Next is to figure out the shape and size, (Profile) to match the sub needs to a given vehicle install.
What 10's are we looking at for a box that's ~2.0 ft^3/chamber? This is a huge box for most main-line subs except maybe for Kicker Comps and even these 10's are 1.75 ft^3 max. Most ported 10's do well in 1.2 - 1.5 ft^3 when ported. (It depends on the sub makers T/Sspecs and how much power/output is required at PTF)
Swez
cplkittle on 02/16/2008 13:48:10
36 is as high as I would go with a box this size.
The bigger boxes will porduce a thicker rumbling bass. When you listen to this enclosure, the word that should come to mind is either 'thick' or 'heavy'. Normally I would tune a 4 cuft box to somewhere between 28-34.
Smaller boxes actually seem louder to me. Put a 12" sub in a 1.25cuft box with a long 2"x12"x 40"port (34Hz), and it will register louder on a meter than the big box with the short port. However, the long port box does not have a smooth spectrum of bass, but rather a more defined peak.
That is what I learned when I was in your shoes, building 3 or 4 boxes a week trying different designs.
If you want to dabble with bandpass, I had alot of luck with a ratio of 1:3. (1cuft sealed, 3cuft ported). You have to go a little above the manufacturer's recommendation for the sealed side (25%) so that the sealed side does not dampen the cone movement so much that the ported side is useless.
Have fun, that is the important part. Are you using screws or staples/nails? Staples or nails are much easier if you have a little air compressor. I always use Titebond III wood glue. I tried all of the other brands, but this stuff is the shiz!
newB on 02/16/2008 14:05:40
i was thinking the ICON SSA 10s, i would be giving them 1/2 the rated RMS, i think this will compensate well for the size of the box. i want a CrAzY daily driver, something that will make two 10s on 1k-1.2k watts sound loud because i'm considering competing in the 139.9 bass race class. Rep said that its a bit big for the ICONS but is possible. i played my RD 10 in 2cuft for several months and it had no problem
-Drew
Victor on 02/16/2008 14:37:48
"""""""Smaller boxes actually seem louder to me. Put a 12" sub in a 1.25cuft box with a long 2"x12"x 40"port (34Hz), and it will register louder on a meter than the big box with the short port.""""""
Kittle i'd request you to think twice before you make generalized statements....
do not forget considering the TS parameters... and quit generalizing on basis of woofer sizes....
......................................................................................................................
anyways,
just one suggestion newB, i'd suggest seperating the two subs , and making two different chambers for each sub in the same enclosure rather then loading them in the same space...
just to ensure the safety of each sub...
Victor...
cplkittle on 02/16/2008 15:28:01
I should have stated that differently. That's not necessarily a generalization. I tinkered around with enclosures for almost 6 years at a car audio shop. When the manufacturer recommends 1.25-1.75 cu ft on a ported enclosure, and I went with the smaller size (using WinIsd to calculate box size and port length) they registered a higher dB than the larger enclosure, even when tuned identically. Out of the hundreds of boxes I have built, this seems to hold true.
I do realize the importance of the TS parameters, and I know that all woofers are different. I also know that you can bend the rules. Not all woofer specs are true. Take Audiobahn for example... a few years ago I designed an enclosure and all of the TS parameters were rounded off numbers. (Qes .3, Qms 4, Qts .2) Those numbers to not jive with each other if Qes = .3 and Qms = 4, then the Qts = 2.79. Granted most subs at least give you a 2 decimal value on all parameters, but no 2 subs that come off the same assembly line are going to be identical either.
I didn't start with a full understanding of T/S parameters.. that came later. I started by following the manufacturer's recommendations, then started experimenting. Luckily, I was in a position that I was allowed to do so. There were a few boxes that I had to toss in the dumpster, and I killed a few subs in the process, but I learned alot.
newB on 02/17/2008 01:48:45
the problem i'm having is just a block in my brain saying keep it 2cuft per chamber, this is because i experimented with 3-4 different boxes for my RD and By Far the best sounding was 2cuft @32hz for my single 10. other boxes were 1.8 and 1.5
-Drew
swez on 02/17/2008 02:47:46
Take it you mean these bad boyz?
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/products/icon/icon10.html
Also, there is an interesting review on SSA's forum, posted by Devil Driver. He did a very interesting series of tests on the 15", 2+2 DVC sub offered by SSA. It's more subjective in nature than objective, but I think he covered a lot of good ground when testing the limits of this sub.
Yes, it's long, very detailed and "subjective" to his taste and enclosure alignments he tried. A good read in all, but this is the 15" sub. I wonder if any if any have looked closely at the 10" ICON subs?
Swez
newB on 02/17/2008 05:04:18
yes these are the little monsters i have had my eyes on, also looking at the T3 woofers as well. i think i will contact SSA and ask them recommended net internal volume and recommended square inches of port, then go from there and incorperate that into my final design
-Drew
rather than building for a box to fit through my trunk, i can get far more volume from inserting through the door/cabin of the car and sliding it into place through the dropped down back seats. this is draft #1 and the baffle is not slanted like it potentially will be, and its also not shown with a double baffle, that of which the final will have.
all the Gold input would be awesome!!
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/saxwonder05/FirstDraft1.png
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/saxwonder05/FirstDraft2.png
box external is: 15x24x29
Gross internal volume is: 4.8cuft
net internal cuft is: ~4cuft
port is: 2.5x22.5x23 @ 36hz
box is for two 10s
"Questions? Comments? COFFEE"
-Drew
Replies (8)
swez on 02/16/2008 09:50:13
Got the idea and like the renderings too.
The trick here is to match the box to meet the subs needs. Next is to figure out the shape and size, (Profile) to match the sub needs to a given vehicle install.
What 10's are we looking at for a box that's ~2.0 ft^3/chamber? This is a huge box for most main-line subs except maybe for Kicker Comps and even these 10's are 1.75 ft^3 max. Most ported 10's do well in 1.2 - 1.5 ft^3 when ported. (It depends on the sub makers T/Sspecs and how much power/output is required at PTF)
Swez
cplkittle on 02/16/2008 13:48:10
36 is as high as I would go with a box this size.
The bigger boxes will porduce a thicker rumbling bass. When you listen to this enclosure, the word that should come to mind is either 'thick' or 'heavy'. Normally I would tune a 4 cuft box to somewhere between 28-34.
Smaller boxes actually seem louder to me. Put a 12" sub in a 1.25cuft box with a long 2"x12"x 40"port (34Hz), and it will register louder on a meter than the big box with the short port. However, the long port box does not have a smooth spectrum of bass, but rather a more defined peak.
That is what I learned when I was in your shoes, building 3 or 4 boxes a week trying different designs.
If you want to dabble with bandpass, I had alot of luck with a ratio of 1:3. (1cuft sealed, 3cuft ported). You have to go a little above the manufacturer's recommendation for the sealed side (25%) so that the sealed side does not dampen the cone movement so much that the ported side is useless.
Have fun, that is the important part. Are you using screws or staples/nails? Staples or nails are much easier if you have a little air compressor. I always use Titebond III wood glue. I tried all of the other brands, but this stuff is the shiz!
newB on 02/16/2008 14:05:40
i was thinking the ICON SSA 10s, i would be giving them 1/2 the rated RMS, i think this will compensate well for the size of the box. i want a CrAzY daily driver, something that will make two 10s on 1k-1.2k watts sound loud because i'm considering competing in the 139.9 bass race class. Rep said that its a bit big for the ICONS but is possible. i played my RD 10 in 2cuft for several months and it had no problem
-Drew
Victor on 02/16/2008 14:37:48
"""""""Smaller boxes actually seem louder to me. Put a 12" sub in a 1.25cuft box with a long 2"x12"x 40"port (34Hz), and it will register louder on a meter than the big box with the short port.""""""
Kittle i'd request you to think twice before you make generalized statements....
do not forget considering the TS parameters... and quit generalizing on basis of woofer sizes....
......................................................................................................................
anyways,
just one suggestion newB, i'd suggest seperating the two subs , and making two different chambers for each sub in the same enclosure rather then loading them in the same space...
just to ensure the safety of each sub...
Victor...
cplkittle on 02/16/2008 15:28:01
I should have stated that differently. That's not necessarily a generalization. I tinkered around with enclosures for almost 6 years at a car audio shop. When the manufacturer recommends 1.25-1.75 cu ft on a ported enclosure, and I went with the smaller size (using WinIsd to calculate box size and port length) they registered a higher dB than the larger enclosure, even when tuned identically. Out of the hundreds of boxes I have built, this seems to hold true.
I do realize the importance of the TS parameters, and I know that all woofers are different. I also know that you can bend the rules. Not all woofer specs are true. Take Audiobahn for example... a few years ago I designed an enclosure and all of the TS parameters were rounded off numbers. (Qes .3, Qms 4, Qts .2) Those numbers to not jive with each other if Qes = .3 and Qms = 4, then the Qts = 2.79. Granted most subs at least give you a 2 decimal value on all parameters, but no 2 subs that come off the same assembly line are going to be identical either.
I didn't start with a full understanding of T/S parameters.. that came later. I started by following the manufacturer's recommendations, then started experimenting. Luckily, I was in a position that I was allowed to do so. There were a few boxes that I had to toss in the dumpster, and I killed a few subs in the process, but I learned alot.
newB on 02/17/2008 01:48:45
the problem i'm having is just a block in my brain saying keep it 2cuft per chamber, this is because i experimented with 3-4 different boxes for my RD and By Far the best sounding was 2cuft @32hz for my single 10. other boxes were 1.8 and 1.5
-Drew
swez on 02/17/2008 02:47:46
Take it you mean these bad boyz?
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/products/icon/icon10.html
Also, there is an interesting review on SSA's forum, posted by Devil Driver. He did a very interesting series of tests on the 15", 2+2 DVC sub offered by SSA. It's more subjective in nature than objective, but I think he covered a lot of good ground when testing the limits of this sub.
Yes, it's long, very detailed and "subjective" to his taste and enclosure alignments he tried. A good read in all, but this is the 15" sub. I wonder if any if any have looked closely at the 10" ICON subs?
Swez
newB on 02/17/2008 05:04:18
yes these are the little monsters i have had my eyes on, also looking at the T3 woofers as well. i think i will contact SSA and ask them recommended net internal volume and recommended square inches of port, then go from there and incorperate that into my final design
-Drew
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