i just tried for the first time to make a friends car theft "resistant" obviously its not theft proof but it deters the average peering eyes from the satisfaction of taking your equipment. example in my friends honda:
single 15 box for his old punch woofer.
OSH carries aircraft grade rubber coated steel cable for .99c a food. i ended up drilling the correct size hole in his box and running the bare wire in one wall and right out the opposite one. then i ran the wire up and through his rear deck (up through one speaker hole, across and back down near the other speaker)
now i had two ends of the wire meeting outside his box, while running through the mdf was air tight. i then used the right piece to loop the wire towards itself (its a figure 8 looking piece) and crimped it tight creating a loop on the end of each wire, and pad-locked. now to get the box out without the key involves completely destroying the rear deck.
to protect the woofer i did the same method but wrapped the wire through the basket (so the cone doesn't hit it) and then around the wire running through the box with another two loops and a pad lock. now the woofer cant leave the box and the box cant leave the car without 1) the keys 2) a cutting device able to cut the steel braided line 3) jigsaw for cutting the box apart to separate it from the line or 4) a cutting tool to tear apart the rear deck.
nothing is perfect but my goal in doing this is to make the process of removing it far more tedious than the setup is worth.
Replies (13)
swez on 02/13/2008 08:33:11
A good idea in concept, but when an average thief cannot get the goods they desire, they tend to destroy and make mayhem out of frustration. Fortunately, that is often covered by the "Comprehensive" part of a good insurance policy. (But not always)
The other option is a guy who shows off his goods to the wrong peeps and they have time to look for ways to work around the intended snares. Here, a good set of 10" "Lineman" pliers will cut 3/8" cables with a little effort. (Bolt cutters will too, but bulky and expensive)
Unfortunately, a determined thief is often well equipped to handle most any passive protection systems. If they are less skilled and get frustrated... they tend to trash the stuff and even the car to get revenge.
Sad, but true and we have many a reader here that has lost their stuff or had their car trashed in the process. Sorry to rain on this parade. Just wanted to advise that few systems can be totally theft/damage proof.
Swez
PS To beat a thief at his own game, one has to think like one. That's pretty hard to do if we are not so inclined.
newB on 02/13/2008 11:05:16
i understand what your saying swez. the intent for the wire is just for after they've passed the alarm, and caused damage to enter the car. more of a "last resort" just to not give them the satisfaction of walking off with anything. honestly with my car i would rather have had the crowbar damage to the sheet metal and inner door panel AND a handful of torn up damaged woofers than everything but the woofers.
-Drew
swez on 02/13/2008 11:32:25
Yes, I see your point and it's a good one. There's nothing wrong with the plan mentioned either. It's just unfortunate that thieves are so rampant and many are well prepared when they come to call on the victim of opportunity.
About 6 months ago, one of our readers did a very extensive install with some help from a "buddy". As part of his graduation present, someone broke into his car, stole most of his nice gear and did a fair amount of damage to his car in the process. He had good reason to think it was his "buddy" that helped install the gear, since the thief knew every detail on how to thwart the passive protection system used.
I don't recall all the details, but it was a major loss and all that nice work was laid to waste. Not sure if he ever recovered his gear either???
Swez
ttocs on 02/13/2008 13:14:56
any chance we can get a pic of this? I can't picture it in my head.
I am all for securing your gear, and while it is difficult to keep it clean cosmetics also plays in somewhere. I often accomplish this by mounting the box while the woofer is out of it with a bolt or two inside the box to some secure part of the vehicle(floor) and then secure the woofer with some security screws or some off type of screw(hex or torx screws). This way the box cannot come out with out the woofer comming out first and you will need the right bit for that. You can also slow somebody down by using multiple mounting points with L brackets on the sides or back.
My box is hung from the rear deck by 5 mounting points by L brackets I made. The box is mounted well enough that you can push the vehicle with it(phisically, not literally) and all the mounting points are hidden to keep people from knowing how it is done. Another obsticle I had to overcome on my build is that I wanted to be able to pull my gear out if I was going to the track. With a little creativity I was able to use some bolts to mount the box to the L brackets so I can put brace under the box, take out those 5 bolts and then lift the box out. With another person it takes me less then 5 mins since I know where everything is but I know it will take somebode else much much longer.
cardomain ride# 2395420
newB on 02/13/2008 13:52:49
my solution to this would be a crowbar. with proper leverage any screw can be pulled right through mdf, this includes speaker and L bracket screws. (thats how they got my stuff)
and swez that situation your referring to would be my own past situation ;-) and i helped him with his system, after impressing him with mine. and he was never found guilty. he is actually buying a DD 9512 and Sundown Saz1500 soon and i'm building his box (hoping if i can get close enough now that i dont have any equipment maybe manipulate further details from him about my ride)
ok- visualize this.... box is in the trunk. a steel cable runs through two parellel sides. each end of this cable run through the sheet metal under the car and meet in the middle where they are looped and padlocked together.
a second cable loops a support in the woofer basket and around the cable running through the box again held by a padlock.
i'll try and draw something up on Paint
-Drew
newB on 02/13/2008 14:13:09
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/saxwonder05/JoeyCK.jpg
YAY for being bad at paint
-Drew
PS i'm thinking about dressing up the 1/4in cable in that plastic wire cover and blend it in with the amp wiring in an attempt to limit who knows how it is set up
-Drew
swez on 02/13/2008 14:26:41
Got the picture and have used this type of hardware before too.
We do this a lot in large venue nightclub installs were large speaker boxes are suspended from ceiling struts and such. We use aircraft cable, eyebolts and compression type attachment hardware and grooved cable stays as well. They can support a lot of weight and even if some dummy tried to hang from a box, it won't come down.
The 3-point mounting method works best for aiming and rendering these large enclosures to a specific target area. It's tricky at first, but with the right tools, hardware and some practice, it's a very robust method.
Swez
PS Try using Power Point drawing tools. Freehand sketching is difficult, but with radius, circle, rectangles and oval tools, you'll get a very nice rendering.
cplkittle on 02/13/2008 15:21:23
I had one customer that wanted an alarm/remote start with a siren mounted inside the vehicle to protect his stereo system. I though it was a little silly, but it is very effective.
I have listened to loud music for 15 years now, even got a nosebleed once.. but NOTHING is as painful as an alarm siren in an enclosed area!!! I doubt anyone would hang around even to destroy the equiptment in that car.
newB on 02/13/2008 17:06:51
AIR HORN!!!!!!!
i just need a new car.
btw i think i'm going to compete in bass race next season, maybe in the 139 class, depending on how my scores do.
i wish i got this metered:
http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/saxwonder05/audio/?action=view¤t=MVI_8627.flv
any bets on what numbers it hit?
-Drew
Victor on 02/14/2008 00:19:31
i wanna say something....
wont even try to guess how loud that is... although will give u a suggestion to make it louder....
I have seen a lot of people show off in that manner....
but hey thats not car audio... that actually should not be happening to your car if you wanna hear some solid, clean crisp loud music....
it simply tells me the lack of sound and vibration damping... i wud not go wooooow on that ...
if you are planning to compete and make it to the top order.. rip off ur car and use a lot of damping material in every place possible.. mats and paint where required... specially the roof, doors and boot.... u'll get a raise of another additional 3 to 6 db.......
if u already have installed some damping... go ahead and feel free to use some more.. cause u need it...
have fun..
Victor...
newB on 02/14/2008 00:54:20
what i liked about it, is that i could crank it and get the flex (shown in the video) but that was only at high volume. i know i had panels rattling in places, but i had the car pretty well done up around the middle, although i never touched the roof. the interior rear quarter panels, doors, under the blue fiberglass piece and the entire rear deck were dampened and made no noise. it takes two objects hitting each other to make rattle, and the flex in the video had relatively low audible noise (the roof liner was soft and flexible) so it was more of a loss in db than a loss in quality through an increase in rattle.
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/14/2008 04:06:39
Pretty solid idea there I think. In my time, for better or worse, I have known many "hood jackers" and have began to learn how to think like them, without the desire to act like them.
#1 deterrent, a removed faceplate. Every single person I have known said that seing a removed faceplate seems to make breaking into the car not worth it, no matter what else is in the vehicle. Reason being is the H/U can generally fetch the highest fence out of all the gear, and is by far the smallest and most portable of all the gear.
#2 deterrent, location and type of vehicle. Y0u would be suprised how much of a difference this makes. Most, not all, will not enter a vehicle in a well lit area. Just common "keep my hoodjacker ass outta jail" maneuver.
#3 deterrent, Size of gear. Many people have told me they will not move on any sub enclosures, and weren't too fond of doing amps. Reason being, is many of these guys don't have a car themselves, (which explains whay they have no feeling whatsoever of what their vicim is going through), or choose not to use a vehicle because it can severly complicate running from the cops. In my area, many cops are some donut chewing obese fools, and it is much easeir for them to catch a person with their Crown Vic, than outrun some skinny kid who threw a head unit at them, and are used to escaping the police on foot regularly.
#4 deterrent, type of vehicle. Ghetto hoopty buckets, like my car are generally skipped right past, because nobody thinks somebody would put a system in such a peice of crap. Most don't either. Likewise, they are less likely to go crack somebody's nice brand new Bimmer or Lexus due to the complication in entering the vehicle, removing things, the advanced security in place out of the factory. It takes somebody a cut above in motor vehicle theft and burglary to sucessfully crack one of these and ont end up in the slam.
Generally, they are looking for the guy with a decent looking late 80's to mid 90's luxury or sports car, with lots of bling that screams, "my owner loves me very much and has plenty of duckets." Plain screwed up that it works like this, but it frequently does.
And actually, what should be the #1 deterrent, common sence and not need to be said at all.........Don't pound the bumps all the damn time! Turn it down at stoplights, and expecially when sitting next to some hinky fools, or old people. And just turn the damn thing off completely when rolling through "that side of town." And if caught slippin' make sure these punks aren't about to folow you home. I have been followed once, and it took driving all over the damn place at high velocity to keep these fools from finding out where I live. Obviously it worked, because 1.5 years later, I haven't had any problems.
I have never seen a system fortified like that, and frankly, I think it is a great idea. IMO, I think unless a person has a personal vendetta against the vehicle owner, if the system can't be stolen it is definitely not worth the time or effort to stick around and trash things. Unless severly disgruntled with the owners, not a single person I have talked to about this would risk being arrested to senselessy destoy some poor schmuck's ride.
I think your efforts are definitely in the right direction Drew, and would stick to them. As for the alarm horn mounted inside the vehicle, you could likely tell who broke into the car by the train of urine and feces leading to their current location after hearing that crap and taking off running for the hills. A great idea, and I think I will do this when I get an alarm. I'll definitely hope I don't accidently set it off while in the car........
MrBrownstone on 02/15/2008 13:48:55
Best theft deterent...stealth. If they can't hear no evil or see no evil, there is no evil.
single 15 box for his old punch woofer.
OSH carries aircraft grade rubber coated steel cable for .99c a food. i ended up drilling the correct size hole in his box and running the bare wire in one wall and right out the opposite one. then i ran the wire up and through his rear deck (up through one speaker hole, across and back down near the other speaker)
now i had two ends of the wire meeting outside his box, while running through the mdf was air tight. i then used the right piece to loop the wire towards itself (its a figure 8 looking piece) and crimped it tight creating a loop on the end of each wire, and pad-locked. now to get the box out without the key involves completely destroying the rear deck.
to protect the woofer i did the same method but wrapped the wire through the basket (so the cone doesn't hit it) and then around the wire running through the box with another two loops and a pad lock. now the woofer cant leave the box and the box cant leave the car without 1) the keys 2) a cutting device able to cut the steel braided line 3) jigsaw for cutting the box apart to separate it from the line or 4) a cutting tool to tear apart the rear deck.
nothing is perfect but my goal in doing this is to make the process of removing it far more tedious than the setup is worth.
Replies (13)
swez on 02/13/2008 08:33:11
A good idea in concept, but when an average thief cannot get the goods they desire, they tend to destroy and make mayhem out of frustration. Fortunately, that is often covered by the "Comprehensive" part of a good insurance policy. (But not always)
The other option is a guy who shows off his goods to the wrong peeps and they have time to look for ways to work around the intended snares. Here, a good set of 10" "Lineman" pliers will cut 3/8" cables with a little effort. (Bolt cutters will too, but bulky and expensive)
Unfortunately, a determined thief is often well equipped to handle most any passive protection systems. If they are less skilled and get frustrated... they tend to trash the stuff and even the car to get revenge.
Sad, but true and we have many a reader here that has lost their stuff or had their car trashed in the process. Sorry to rain on this parade. Just wanted to advise that few systems can be totally theft/damage proof.
Swez
PS To beat a thief at his own game, one has to think like one. That's pretty hard to do if we are not so inclined.
newB on 02/13/2008 11:05:16
i understand what your saying swez. the intent for the wire is just for after they've passed the alarm, and caused damage to enter the car. more of a "last resort" just to not give them the satisfaction of walking off with anything. honestly with my car i would rather have had the crowbar damage to the sheet metal and inner door panel AND a handful of torn up damaged woofers than everything but the woofers.
-Drew
swez on 02/13/2008 11:32:25
Yes, I see your point and it's a good one. There's nothing wrong with the plan mentioned either. It's just unfortunate that thieves are so rampant and many are well prepared when they come to call on the victim of opportunity.
About 6 months ago, one of our readers did a very extensive install with some help from a "buddy". As part of his graduation present, someone broke into his car, stole most of his nice gear and did a fair amount of damage to his car in the process. He had good reason to think it was his "buddy" that helped install the gear, since the thief knew every detail on how to thwart the passive protection system used.
I don't recall all the details, but it was a major loss and all that nice work was laid to waste. Not sure if he ever recovered his gear either???
Swez
ttocs on 02/13/2008 13:14:56
any chance we can get a pic of this? I can't picture it in my head.
I am all for securing your gear, and while it is difficult to keep it clean cosmetics also plays in somewhere. I often accomplish this by mounting the box while the woofer is out of it with a bolt or two inside the box to some secure part of the vehicle(floor) and then secure the woofer with some security screws or some off type of screw(hex or torx screws). This way the box cannot come out with out the woofer comming out first and you will need the right bit for that. You can also slow somebody down by using multiple mounting points with L brackets on the sides or back.
My box is hung from the rear deck by 5 mounting points by L brackets I made. The box is mounted well enough that you can push the vehicle with it(phisically, not literally) and all the mounting points are hidden to keep people from knowing how it is done. Another obsticle I had to overcome on my build is that I wanted to be able to pull my gear out if I was going to the track. With a little creativity I was able to use some bolts to mount the box to the L brackets so I can put brace under the box, take out those 5 bolts and then lift the box out. With another person it takes me less then 5 mins since I know where everything is but I know it will take somebode else much much longer.
cardomain ride# 2395420
newB on 02/13/2008 13:52:49
my solution to this would be a crowbar. with proper leverage any screw can be pulled right through mdf, this includes speaker and L bracket screws. (thats how they got my stuff)
and swez that situation your referring to would be my own past situation ;-) and i helped him with his system, after impressing him with mine. and he was never found guilty. he is actually buying a DD 9512 and Sundown Saz1500 soon and i'm building his box (hoping if i can get close enough now that i dont have any equipment maybe manipulate further details from him about my ride)
ok- visualize this.... box is in the trunk. a steel cable runs through two parellel sides. each end of this cable run through the sheet metal under the car and meet in the middle where they are looped and padlocked together.
a second cable loops a support in the woofer basket and around the cable running through the box again held by a padlock.
i'll try and draw something up on Paint
-Drew
newB on 02/13/2008 14:13:09
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/saxwonder05/JoeyCK.jpg
YAY for being bad at paint
-Drew
PS i'm thinking about dressing up the 1/4in cable in that plastic wire cover and blend it in with the amp wiring in an attempt to limit who knows how it is set up
-Drew
swez on 02/13/2008 14:26:41
Got the picture and have used this type of hardware before too.
We do this a lot in large venue nightclub installs were large speaker boxes are suspended from ceiling struts and such. We use aircraft cable, eyebolts and compression type attachment hardware and grooved cable stays as well. They can support a lot of weight and even if some dummy tried to hang from a box, it won't come down.
The 3-point mounting method works best for aiming and rendering these large enclosures to a specific target area. It's tricky at first, but with the right tools, hardware and some practice, it's a very robust method.
Swez
PS Try using Power Point drawing tools. Freehand sketching is difficult, but with radius, circle, rectangles and oval tools, you'll get a very nice rendering.
cplkittle on 02/13/2008 15:21:23
I had one customer that wanted an alarm/remote start with a siren mounted inside the vehicle to protect his stereo system. I though it was a little silly, but it is very effective.
I have listened to loud music for 15 years now, even got a nosebleed once.. but NOTHING is as painful as an alarm siren in an enclosed area!!! I doubt anyone would hang around even to destroy the equiptment in that car.
newB on 02/13/2008 17:06:51
AIR HORN!!!!!!!
i just need a new car.
btw i think i'm going to compete in bass race next season, maybe in the 139 class, depending on how my scores do.
i wish i got this metered:
http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/saxwonder05/audio/?action=view¤t=MVI_8627.flv
any bets on what numbers it hit?
-Drew
Victor on 02/14/2008 00:19:31
i wanna say something....
wont even try to guess how loud that is... although will give u a suggestion to make it louder....
I have seen a lot of people show off in that manner....
but hey thats not car audio... that actually should not be happening to your car if you wanna hear some solid, clean crisp loud music....
it simply tells me the lack of sound and vibration damping... i wud not go wooooow on that ...
if you are planning to compete and make it to the top order.. rip off ur car and use a lot of damping material in every place possible.. mats and paint where required... specially the roof, doors and boot.... u'll get a raise of another additional 3 to 6 db.......
if u already have installed some damping... go ahead and feel free to use some more.. cause u need it...
have fun..
Victor...
newB on 02/14/2008 00:54:20
what i liked about it, is that i could crank it and get the flex (shown in the video) but that was only at high volume. i know i had panels rattling in places, but i had the car pretty well done up around the middle, although i never touched the roof. the interior rear quarter panels, doors, under the blue fiberglass piece and the entire rear deck were dampened and made no noise. it takes two objects hitting each other to make rattle, and the flex in the video had relatively low audible noise (the roof liner was soft and flexible) so it was more of a loss in db than a loss in quality through an increase in rattle.
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/14/2008 04:06:39
Pretty solid idea there I think. In my time, for better or worse, I have known many "hood jackers" and have began to learn how to think like them, without the desire to act like them.
#1 deterrent, a removed faceplate. Every single person I have known said that seing a removed faceplate seems to make breaking into the car not worth it, no matter what else is in the vehicle. Reason being is the H/U can generally fetch the highest fence out of all the gear, and is by far the smallest and most portable of all the gear.
#2 deterrent, location and type of vehicle. Y0u would be suprised how much of a difference this makes. Most, not all, will not enter a vehicle in a well lit area. Just common "keep my hoodjacker ass outta jail" maneuver.
#3 deterrent, Size of gear. Many people have told me they will not move on any sub enclosures, and weren't too fond of doing amps. Reason being, is many of these guys don't have a car themselves, (which explains whay they have no feeling whatsoever of what their vicim is going through), or choose not to use a vehicle because it can severly complicate running from the cops. In my area, many cops are some donut chewing obese fools, and it is much easeir for them to catch a person with their Crown Vic, than outrun some skinny kid who threw a head unit at them, and are used to escaping the police on foot regularly.
#4 deterrent, type of vehicle. Ghetto hoopty buckets, like my car are generally skipped right past, because nobody thinks somebody would put a system in such a peice of crap. Most don't either. Likewise, they are less likely to go crack somebody's nice brand new Bimmer or Lexus due to the complication in entering the vehicle, removing things, the advanced security in place out of the factory. It takes somebody a cut above in motor vehicle theft and burglary to sucessfully crack one of these and ont end up in the slam.
Generally, they are looking for the guy with a decent looking late 80's to mid 90's luxury or sports car, with lots of bling that screams, "my owner loves me very much and has plenty of duckets." Plain screwed up that it works like this, but it frequently does.
And actually, what should be the #1 deterrent, common sence and not need to be said at all.........Don't pound the bumps all the damn time! Turn it down at stoplights, and expecially when sitting next to some hinky fools, or old people. And just turn the damn thing off completely when rolling through "that side of town." And if caught slippin' make sure these punks aren't about to folow you home. I have been followed once, and it took driving all over the damn place at high velocity to keep these fools from finding out where I live. Obviously it worked, because 1.5 years later, I haven't had any problems.
I have never seen a system fortified like that, and frankly, I think it is a great idea. IMO, I think unless a person has a personal vendetta against the vehicle owner, if the system can't be stolen it is definitely not worth the time or effort to stick around and trash things. Unless severly disgruntled with the owners, not a single person I have talked to about this would risk being arrested to senselessy destoy some poor schmuck's ride.
I think your efforts are definitely in the right direction Drew, and would stick to them. As for the alarm horn mounted inside the vehicle, you could likely tell who broke into the car by the train of urine and feces leading to their current location after hearing that crap and taking off running for the hills. A great idea, and I think I will do this when I get an alarm. I'll definitely hope I don't accidently set it off while in the car........
MrBrownstone on 02/15/2008 13:48:55
Best theft deterent...stealth. If they can't hear no evil or see no evil, there is no evil.
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