Hi everyone,
Apologies if this has already been asked elsewhere on this site, but... I have been puzzled by different/conflicting answers from people I know about mounting my two new subwoofers, what I would like to do ideally is mount them both on the outside of the same enclosure, so that the cones are facing inwards. (I want everyone to see the size of the magnets! GRIN )
But what are the advantages/disadvantages of doing this? How will it affect the subs operation or acoustics?
I know the specs of the subs and what volume of air is required for optimal operation, it'd just be nice if someone has a definitive answer, coz nobody I know at the moment does! HAPPY
Replies (43)
swez on 02/10/2008 15:51:21
Sound wise, it makes no difference if we mount the sub magnets and cage outside the box or in. Some like the looks of subs mounted outside the box, but the sound is pretty much the same.
Personally, mounting the subs inside the box and using a plexiglass or other clear acrylic window materials to see the basket, magnet and such does make sense. Some use lights as well to show off the details. Here, the window has to be thick, (1/2" or thicker) so it won't vibrate and is well sealed so it does not leak air.
The rub here, when subs are mouted outside the box, they are unprotected from prying fingers, loose metal objects can be grabbed by the magnets and balancing the box so it won't tip over on turns, hard stops and "jack rabbit" starts.
Frankly, I am well in favor of mounting the subs inside the box and using a viewing window if one wants some added pazzaz. It's not worth risking damage to an expensive sub as noted earlier.
Swez COFFEE
cplkittle on 02/10/2008 21:39:10
Agreed. I had mine inverted for many years. After about a year of fingers touching everything and cleaners to polish up the chrome plated backplate, the plating started to wear off, and they started to look bad.
If you were asking about midrange speakers, we would tell you not to do it. As far as clarity goes, the butt end of a speaker sounds like just that. For subs, clarity is not the top priority. A highly sensitive piece of audio equiptment might be able to measure some sound difference between inside or outside mounted subs, but the human ear will never be able to tell.
SQLThump on 02/11/2008 16:56:36
Now, what if we flipped one sub in a dual sub setup, and left the other cone side out? I saw this in a lowrider mag one time, and looked sick as all hell. I am considering doing this, as one of my subs looks horrible from the front, but fine on the magnet side. I do know that one of the drivers would have to be out of phase though.
admin on 02/11/2008 18:58:36
Im an older fella, I take it "sick" is the equiv to awesome, cool, rad, etc?
SQLThump on 02/11/2008 19:04:30
Yeah, there is a lot of terms like that, ill is also used. Basically, it would seem that the worse sounding adjective used, the better something is. Funny though, that the words gross and disgusting really don't come into play though. I have lived in many different parts of the US, and I swear I have to relearn all the slang of the area each time.
cplkittle on 02/12/2008 01:15:42
My coworker/mentor once told me that one of the custom enclosures I built looked like balls. That was his favorite word.
So we came up with our own trademark "Ballz"
That lead to Ballz custom fabrication
and the infamous (at least around the Chattanooga area) Ballz Box.
We had alot of fun with it, and even had our own decals made
"Ballz custom fabrication" for our customers, and
"Ballz custom fabricator" For our personal vehicles.
Everyone wants a box with Ballz!
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 01:53:29
Ballz.....Thats mad funky fresh yo! Generally, though around here, if something is good, and reffers to a body part, it is called "+!+$" or "nipples." Slang is ridicoulous sometimes!
Kit, any thoughts on one sub cone in, and one cone out?
newB on 02/12/2008 04:07:47
ive put my woofers magnet in and magnet out and i like it both ways, i'll usually go back and forth pretty regularly. keep in mind if your building a box for the woofers magnet in you need to compensate for the displacement of the woofer while magnet out you do not.
if you want to experiment with different ways, just build for magnet in, and in the situation you want to display the motor structure and flip it magnet out just have blocks ready to put in the box to balance the net internal volume.
also! if you have a consistent box volume flipping the woofer in or out will change the tone the woofer creates. not because the actual flip changes anything, but that in changing the volume of the box your changing the response curve.
example. you have 1.5cuft net internal volume with woofer in, and its a solid sound with crisp loud upper bass. you flip the woofer magnet out and have 1.65cuft net internal your sound will shift lower and you might notice more "boomy" lows with a smoother, less crisp upper range.
just decide what you want to try and go from there!
-Drew
cplkittle on 02/12/2008 14:39:52
Drew hit that one dead on.
I did design an enclosure with 3 10's once where two were mounted normally, and the third was inverted just for show.
You have to be creative with the wiring of the sub to pull it off. An inverted sub is just that if the wiring is tacky, but an inverted sub with something creative as far as wiring goes is a piece of art. I used an 1/8" bar of aluminum bent in a half hexagon that was just flexible enough to pull apart and insert in to the voice coil terminals for the coil to coil wiring. I will dig around and see if I still have a picture...
newB on 02/12/2008 15:42:53
when wiring the three like that would you just wire the inverted sub out of phase? ive wired in and out, but never a combination of the two
-Drew
cplkittle on 02/12/2008 15:49:31
yes, only the inverted one(s) would be wired out of phase.
newB on 02/12/2008 16:30:08
wellll dang looks like i'll have to try that soon for kicks. i have two builds coming that would be interesting, if all goes to plan one will be designed by pete k so i'm pretty excited for that.
-Drew
cplkittle on 02/12/2008 16:40:07
Pete who?
just kidding, I know who he is. The first time I heard his name was when my 2 d612s hit 154 @ 33Hz. The guy running the mic said that I matched pete from team toxic bass. Funny thing is, I wasn't going for pure spl, or I would have tuned the box to up to around 40Hz.
TTB ain't got Ballz
newB on 02/12/2008 17:04:12
can you go into further details about that setup?? i just recently got out to a db drag/bass race in Sacramento and got to hear two Fi 15s on 6k watts tuned to 35hz do over 150db and it was by far the loudest car ive been in. it seemed like two 12s or 10s would have a very, very hard time producing what i felt. so i'm curious what its like having smaller drivers put up those numbers. will two 12s doing slightly over 150db sound exactly the same as these two 15s doing +150??
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 17:35:33
Right on on the responses guys. I figured it would be simple, and I knew one woofer would need to be out of phase, But things I was wondering is if the arispace would make a big difference (thanks again for that) or if there was more complicated issure at hand (there doesn't seem to be.)
I may have to do this, I did try it about a month ago, but my screws were too short, the sub fell off the box, and I flipped it back in to avoid any further troubles.
newB on 02/12/2008 17:42:27
yeah it gets tricky balancing the box (depending on the design) now that the subject is brought up and we're all discussing it, my question now would be if your running several woofers in a single chamber and flipped one (reversing the polarity) would there be that drastic of a change to the box? something like this-
2 woofers separate 1cuft chambers woofer inside. you flip one woofer now one is seeing 1cuft and the other 1.15cuft and it will severely effect sound BUT what if
2woofers same 2cuft chamber you flip one woofer and change the polarity now they are both seeing 2.15 to the pair, and will each put out the same larger compinsated tone, any need for a replacement woofer block?
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 18:14:44
I would think that sounds dangerous for a couple of reasons. First, single chambered boxes seem dangerous to me from the get go.
Second, I am sure the enclosure difference could cause troubles if it causes the situation to go over the reccomended box size. This could lead to some overexcursion.
Personally, I have only ever built one box, and it only had one enclosure size reccomended. Mind you, this was a BP enclosure, so flipping the woofer probably wouldn't have made too much a difference, the ported side would be a bit smaller I guess. Pops and I didn't even think to compensate for speaker or port displacement, but the box still slammed like crazy.
But other than these two small quibbles, I don't think it would cause too much an issue if the inverted sub was out of phase. If both were wired the same phase by accident or ignorance, I am pretty confident that if left alone, it would probably cause major damage to both subs, condifering they are pushing against each other violently in a non-isobaric setup. Even in isobaric setups though, a woofer has to be wired out of phase to keep them from smacking into each other.
I tried a ghetto little isobaric setup with some old house woofers from some tower speakers, and this ugly little box a buddy gave me, and wired them in the same phase at first, and it was the most ugly sound I ever heard. With the outside woofer in the other phase, it sounded better, but very similar to what two haggard old woofers isobarically mounted in a horribly designed box should sound like (no Ballz at all!)
You guys have it lucky, living in states that actually have competitions, and like more than 5 people who are seroiusly talented in the field. The nearest competition I have found is in the next state over, Utah, and there is no way I am setting foot in that state again.
Round here, (Colorado) its lots of crap woofers by crap brands in crap, mismatched boxes that have people thinking labels like Boss and Legacy are worth the crap it takes to make them, maxxed out gains, and tons of blown stock speakers on head unit power. I think in my life I have seen one, maybe two systems I don't think could have been improved on by upgrading crap wiring, and setting up amps right. Hell, a few years ago, I didn't know any better myself.
newB on 02/12/2008 18:28:38
ive built one box that shared a chamber and it worked out fine, granted this was upon request of the customer and i would have otherwise separated the woofers myself. its been over a year on the same woofers and they are still in good condition so i would say that depending on the quality of the equipment a single chamber will work
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 18:42:52
Still not something I would want to try though. Good thing they hold up though. Why was your customer so stuck on a single chamber? Was it ported or sealed?
uvMatt on 02/12/2008 18:59:57
Thank you all so much for your responses! CLAP In 1 day I have recieved 16 emails notifying me of all of your replies, even if they did start to go a bit off topic....
This is all great stuff, and I will be recommending this forum to many people.
SQLThump, I loved the comment on everyone being so lucky to have sound competitions, I live in the UK and have never ever been to one nor seen any advertised, even at shows! ;)
An inverted setup sounds interesting... its amazing just how much you can play around with audio systems, some of you guys must be such audiophiles!
But, ultimately, all of you have answered my question, and that I thank you all for! If I need to know anything else I'll certainly post on here! HAPPY
I'm currently in the process of obtaining bits and pieces for a carputer install... So much to think about but I think I now know what i need to get it done! THINK I shall have to let you all know how it goes! Peace.
newB on 02/12/2008 19:13:20
build pix build pix build pix!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
or you'll be in trouble! ;-)
and sqlthump it was in a trunk back Toyota 3cubes net with 4" areos through the rear deck. im not sure why, i tried to convince him otherwise but he was stuck on a single chamber. maybe losing the volume the center board would have taken up? not 100% sure, i do know that i build it as big as possible outside the car.
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 19:14:05
Glad to see we gave you some good info. Now, stick around, and you can be right up there with us.
I am in the same boat man. Go to a car show, and nobody seems to care about their audio, no competition no advertisment, hell hardly any shows.
Car and home audio is my primary hobby, pretty much that and videogames. I mess around constantly just to make my stereo sound 1% better, and just to learn stuff.
Good luck with your Carputer, that is a complicated looking process that I would not have the nerve to mess with, show us all how it turns out.!
newB on 02/12/2008 19:16:27
yeah uvMatt- stick around and read as much as you can. i'm 100% self taught purely from forums just like this. and ive only been in the industry for 2.5yrs GRIN "AND YOU CAN TOO!!!!"
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 19:18:44
Hmm, interesting, what kind of Toyota was it? What subs? The one box I built funny enough was for a Toyota Cressida, with the bandpass port straight through the rear deck. Toyota's seem to have retarted small trunks sometimes. You couldn't fit any bigger subs than a 10" unless you angled the box to fire slightly upward towards the trunk lid.
newB on 02/12/2008 19:22:50
it was a mid 90s corolla. it was 3cuft net internal with two RD Sonance 12s sharing the chamber.
http://www.rdaudio.net/sonance/sonance.htm
-Drew
uvMatt on 02/12/2008 19:29:16
750w RMS sounds kinda good ;)
uvMatt on 02/12/2008 19:33:00
oooooooookay..... just checked out that RD 7250.1D amplifier... 13000w RMS x 1ch.... Isn't that.... well.... kind of excessive..? That could power two MTX Jackhammers! Because EVERYBODY has a 600A fuse just for this stuff don't they??? I didn't even know stuff like this existed for automobile audio..!
newB on 02/12/2008 19:40:38
hahahaha believe it or not- its not excessive when you get into the CrAzYneSs that is competition car audio. although i have not personally seen a car running 13k watts, at the competition i was at i sat in two cars the first was 9,000watts on six mtx 12s woofers, the other was 6,000watts on two Fi 15s.
IF i didn't have to leave early i was invited to sit in steve meades SUV with 8 18s and 30,000 watts of power...... 160db @32hz anyone??
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 19:42:48
Dude, if I had the money to build a project around that amp, I would do it in a heartbeat. Here we have a statement (which accounts for all of our pollution here) "Nothing succeeds like excess" It worked in the muscle car era............
Fosgate makes a 20,000W RMS amp if I am not mistaken. Let me check this book I have, but it was for sure in the quintuple digits of RMS power.
newB on 02/12/2008 19:44:29
that RF amp is the one Meade has in his SUV its rated 15,000rms and he has TWO of them GRIN
as for that RD amp, the number your looking at is TWO 7250.1s strapped together (working as one amp)
-Drew
uvMatt on 02/12/2008 19:50:36
*attempts to imagine 160db @ 32hz, but fails*
newB on 02/12/2008 19:56:18
it took me 20min to recover from true 152db @35hz @_@
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 19:56:42
Word Drew. Wasn't sure if it was 15 or 20K
BTW who is Meade? I don't know the names of any of the greats in competitions and the like because we don't have that stuff here. Dude I need to move......
newB on 02/12/2008 19:59:43
steavemeadedesigns.com
good stuff if you feel like browsing in your free time. he has a video of his bass removing a womans fake eyeball. (pretty funny)
-Drew
uvMatt on 02/12/2008 20:06:14
You mean http://stevemeadedesigns.com/ ? ;)
newB on 02/12/2008 20:16:32
yes
-Drew
newB on 02/12/2008 22:15:19
MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.realmofexcursion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45533&referrerid=4093
-Drew
uvMatt on 02/13/2008 12:42:49
Drew, that is insane.
There is no practical cause for this much power...
Someone on that forum has commented that one of those installs is drawing near to 200,000 watts.....
Surely the vehicles power supply would see that as a dead short??
newB on 02/13/2008 13:54:45
well, they run a 300amp alt per X # of amps, and those cars will only pull that wattage for under 8 seconds. then the batteries go on the charger ;-)
-Drew
cplkittle on 02/13/2008 15:53:41
Most of these vehicles don't even have engines. That space is converted to battery racks.
I really like those JBL crown 6000w amps :)
I'll take one of those anyday over these so called 10,000 watt amps on the market today.
Dave Jennings set records a few years back with this setup.
What does that tell you when he can hang with or exceed some of these 200,000 watt systems?
SQLThump on 02/13/2008 16:45:54
Efficency is king really. Uv is right when saying there is no practical use for these amps, which in a sence there is none, except to compete in the case of vehicles with battery racks instead of engines.
But I understand the nature of the competition, and the desire to set world records. I feel it, but there isn't a door around here to try and get my foot in.
Got a link to one of these JBL crown 6000 watters?
newB on 02/13/2008 17:02:55
i <3 JBL at work we use them all the time, speakers and amps they make such quality products. (idk the link) but i did see a pic that had a massive array of alts in the front rather than a battery box (but i'm sure your right people do do that)
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/14/2008 03:22:48
Yeah, JBL is some kickass gear. I am very loyal to Harmon International, which is why the majority of my gear for the car is made by them. Both amps are JBL, and my front components are Infinity.
Every live music venue I have been to had some JBL gear kicking around somewhere. Stuff like this reminds me much of how racing effects the car market. Crazy stuff is done to catch the public eye, and from there, it tricles down to new technology for common passenger vehicles, and can skyrocket vehicle sales. "Win on Sunday, Sell On Monday," was the saying that held true much through the muscle car era, and was key in developing many of the muscle and sports cars that dominated the day. Even GM, whith it's "no racing" policy of the 60's, was crankiing out some wicked race vehicles. The first generation Camaro Z-28's were built specifically to dominate the SCCA Trans Am series, and they did just that.
More companies need to step up their Pro Audio and live music game. It is this competive market that privides the need for business to constantly one-up the next guy, and everybody benefits, expecially us, the end user.
Apologies if this has already been asked elsewhere on this site, but... I have been puzzled by different/conflicting answers from people I know about mounting my two new subwoofers, what I would like to do ideally is mount them both on the outside of the same enclosure, so that the cones are facing inwards. (I want everyone to see the size of the magnets! GRIN )
But what are the advantages/disadvantages of doing this? How will it affect the subs operation or acoustics?
I know the specs of the subs and what volume of air is required for optimal operation, it'd just be nice if someone has a definitive answer, coz nobody I know at the moment does! HAPPY
Replies (43)
swez on 02/10/2008 15:51:21
Sound wise, it makes no difference if we mount the sub magnets and cage outside the box or in. Some like the looks of subs mounted outside the box, but the sound is pretty much the same.
Personally, mounting the subs inside the box and using a plexiglass or other clear acrylic window materials to see the basket, magnet and such does make sense. Some use lights as well to show off the details. Here, the window has to be thick, (1/2" or thicker) so it won't vibrate and is well sealed so it does not leak air.
The rub here, when subs are mouted outside the box, they are unprotected from prying fingers, loose metal objects can be grabbed by the magnets and balancing the box so it won't tip over on turns, hard stops and "jack rabbit" starts.
Frankly, I am well in favor of mounting the subs inside the box and using a viewing window if one wants some added pazzaz. It's not worth risking damage to an expensive sub as noted earlier.
Swez COFFEE
cplkittle on 02/10/2008 21:39:10
Agreed. I had mine inverted for many years. After about a year of fingers touching everything and cleaners to polish up the chrome plated backplate, the plating started to wear off, and they started to look bad.
If you were asking about midrange speakers, we would tell you not to do it. As far as clarity goes, the butt end of a speaker sounds like just that. For subs, clarity is not the top priority. A highly sensitive piece of audio equiptment might be able to measure some sound difference between inside or outside mounted subs, but the human ear will never be able to tell.
SQLThump on 02/11/2008 16:56:36
Now, what if we flipped one sub in a dual sub setup, and left the other cone side out? I saw this in a lowrider mag one time, and looked sick as all hell. I am considering doing this, as one of my subs looks horrible from the front, but fine on the magnet side. I do know that one of the drivers would have to be out of phase though.
admin on 02/11/2008 18:58:36
Im an older fella, I take it "sick" is the equiv to awesome, cool, rad, etc?
SQLThump on 02/11/2008 19:04:30
Yeah, there is a lot of terms like that, ill is also used. Basically, it would seem that the worse sounding adjective used, the better something is. Funny though, that the words gross and disgusting really don't come into play though. I have lived in many different parts of the US, and I swear I have to relearn all the slang of the area each time.
cplkittle on 02/12/2008 01:15:42
My coworker/mentor once told me that one of the custom enclosures I built looked like balls. That was his favorite word.
So we came up with our own trademark "Ballz"
That lead to Ballz custom fabrication
and the infamous (at least around the Chattanooga area) Ballz Box.
We had alot of fun with it, and even had our own decals made
"Ballz custom fabrication" for our customers, and
"Ballz custom fabricator" For our personal vehicles.
Everyone wants a box with Ballz!
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 01:53:29
Ballz.....Thats mad funky fresh yo! Generally, though around here, if something is good, and reffers to a body part, it is called "+!+$" or "nipples." Slang is ridicoulous sometimes!
Kit, any thoughts on one sub cone in, and one cone out?
newB on 02/12/2008 04:07:47
ive put my woofers magnet in and magnet out and i like it both ways, i'll usually go back and forth pretty regularly. keep in mind if your building a box for the woofers magnet in you need to compensate for the displacement of the woofer while magnet out you do not.
if you want to experiment with different ways, just build for magnet in, and in the situation you want to display the motor structure and flip it magnet out just have blocks ready to put in the box to balance the net internal volume.
also! if you have a consistent box volume flipping the woofer in or out will change the tone the woofer creates. not because the actual flip changes anything, but that in changing the volume of the box your changing the response curve.
example. you have 1.5cuft net internal volume with woofer in, and its a solid sound with crisp loud upper bass. you flip the woofer magnet out and have 1.65cuft net internal your sound will shift lower and you might notice more "boomy" lows with a smoother, less crisp upper range.
just decide what you want to try and go from there!
-Drew
cplkittle on 02/12/2008 14:39:52
Drew hit that one dead on.
I did design an enclosure with 3 10's once where two were mounted normally, and the third was inverted just for show.
You have to be creative with the wiring of the sub to pull it off. An inverted sub is just that if the wiring is tacky, but an inverted sub with something creative as far as wiring goes is a piece of art. I used an 1/8" bar of aluminum bent in a half hexagon that was just flexible enough to pull apart and insert in to the voice coil terminals for the coil to coil wiring. I will dig around and see if I still have a picture...
newB on 02/12/2008 15:42:53
when wiring the three like that would you just wire the inverted sub out of phase? ive wired in and out, but never a combination of the two
-Drew
cplkittle on 02/12/2008 15:49:31
yes, only the inverted one(s) would be wired out of phase.
newB on 02/12/2008 16:30:08
wellll dang looks like i'll have to try that soon for kicks. i have two builds coming that would be interesting, if all goes to plan one will be designed by pete k so i'm pretty excited for that.
-Drew
cplkittle on 02/12/2008 16:40:07
Pete who?
just kidding, I know who he is. The first time I heard his name was when my 2 d612s hit 154 @ 33Hz. The guy running the mic said that I matched pete from team toxic bass. Funny thing is, I wasn't going for pure spl, or I would have tuned the box to up to around 40Hz.
TTB ain't got Ballz
newB on 02/12/2008 17:04:12
can you go into further details about that setup?? i just recently got out to a db drag/bass race in Sacramento and got to hear two Fi 15s on 6k watts tuned to 35hz do over 150db and it was by far the loudest car ive been in. it seemed like two 12s or 10s would have a very, very hard time producing what i felt. so i'm curious what its like having smaller drivers put up those numbers. will two 12s doing slightly over 150db sound exactly the same as these two 15s doing +150??
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 17:35:33
Right on on the responses guys. I figured it would be simple, and I knew one woofer would need to be out of phase, But things I was wondering is if the arispace would make a big difference (thanks again for that) or if there was more complicated issure at hand (there doesn't seem to be.)
I may have to do this, I did try it about a month ago, but my screws were too short, the sub fell off the box, and I flipped it back in to avoid any further troubles.
newB on 02/12/2008 17:42:27
yeah it gets tricky balancing the box (depending on the design) now that the subject is brought up and we're all discussing it, my question now would be if your running several woofers in a single chamber and flipped one (reversing the polarity) would there be that drastic of a change to the box? something like this-
2 woofers separate 1cuft chambers woofer inside. you flip one woofer now one is seeing 1cuft and the other 1.15cuft and it will severely effect sound BUT what if
2woofers same 2cuft chamber you flip one woofer and change the polarity now they are both seeing 2.15 to the pair, and will each put out the same larger compinsated tone, any need for a replacement woofer block?
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 18:14:44
I would think that sounds dangerous for a couple of reasons. First, single chambered boxes seem dangerous to me from the get go.
Second, I am sure the enclosure difference could cause troubles if it causes the situation to go over the reccomended box size. This could lead to some overexcursion.
Personally, I have only ever built one box, and it only had one enclosure size reccomended. Mind you, this was a BP enclosure, so flipping the woofer probably wouldn't have made too much a difference, the ported side would be a bit smaller I guess. Pops and I didn't even think to compensate for speaker or port displacement, but the box still slammed like crazy.
But other than these two small quibbles, I don't think it would cause too much an issue if the inverted sub was out of phase. If both were wired the same phase by accident or ignorance, I am pretty confident that if left alone, it would probably cause major damage to both subs, condifering they are pushing against each other violently in a non-isobaric setup. Even in isobaric setups though, a woofer has to be wired out of phase to keep them from smacking into each other.
I tried a ghetto little isobaric setup with some old house woofers from some tower speakers, and this ugly little box a buddy gave me, and wired them in the same phase at first, and it was the most ugly sound I ever heard. With the outside woofer in the other phase, it sounded better, but very similar to what two haggard old woofers isobarically mounted in a horribly designed box should sound like (no Ballz at all!)
You guys have it lucky, living in states that actually have competitions, and like more than 5 people who are seroiusly talented in the field. The nearest competition I have found is in the next state over, Utah, and there is no way I am setting foot in that state again.
Round here, (Colorado) its lots of crap woofers by crap brands in crap, mismatched boxes that have people thinking labels like Boss and Legacy are worth the crap it takes to make them, maxxed out gains, and tons of blown stock speakers on head unit power. I think in my life I have seen one, maybe two systems I don't think could have been improved on by upgrading crap wiring, and setting up amps right. Hell, a few years ago, I didn't know any better myself.
newB on 02/12/2008 18:28:38
ive built one box that shared a chamber and it worked out fine, granted this was upon request of the customer and i would have otherwise separated the woofers myself. its been over a year on the same woofers and they are still in good condition so i would say that depending on the quality of the equipment a single chamber will work
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 18:42:52
Still not something I would want to try though. Good thing they hold up though. Why was your customer so stuck on a single chamber? Was it ported or sealed?
uvMatt on 02/12/2008 18:59:57
Thank you all so much for your responses! CLAP In 1 day I have recieved 16 emails notifying me of all of your replies, even if they did start to go a bit off topic....
This is all great stuff, and I will be recommending this forum to many people.
SQLThump, I loved the comment on everyone being so lucky to have sound competitions, I live in the UK and have never ever been to one nor seen any advertised, even at shows! ;)
An inverted setup sounds interesting... its amazing just how much you can play around with audio systems, some of you guys must be such audiophiles!
But, ultimately, all of you have answered my question, and that I thank you all for! If I need to know anything else I'll certainly post on here! HAPPY
I'm currently in the process of obtaining bits and pieces for a carputer install... So much to think about but I think I now know what i need to get it done! THINK I shall have to let you all know how it goes! Peace.
newB on 02/12/2008 19:13:20
build pix build pix build pix!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
or you'll be in trouble! ;-)
and sqlthump it was in a trunk back Toyota 3cubes net with 4" areos through the rear deck. im not sure why, i tried to convince him otherwise but he was stuck on a single chamber. maybe losing the volume the center board would have taken up? not 100% sure, i do know that i build it as big as possible outside the car.
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 19:14:05
Glad to see we gave you some good info. Now, stick around, and you can be right up there with us.
I am in the same boat man. Go to a car show, and nobody seems to care about their audio, no competition no advertisment, hell hardly any shows.
Car and home audio is my primary hobby, pretty much that and videogames. I mess around constantly just to make my stereo sound 1% better, and just to learn stuff.
Good luck with your Carputer, that is a complicated looking process that I would not have the nerve to mess with, show us all how it turns out.!
newB on 02/12/2008 19:16:27
yeah uvMatt- stick around and read as much as you can. i'm 100% self taught purely from forums just like this. and ive only been in the industry for 2.5yrs GRIN "AND YOU CAN TOO!!!!"
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 19:18:44
Hmm, interesting, what kind of Toyota was it? What subs? The one box I built funny enough was for a Toyota Cressida, with the bandpass port straight through the rear deck. Toyota's seem to have retarted small trunks sometimes. You couldn't fit any bigger subs than a 10" unless you angled the box to fire slightly upward towards the trunk lid.
newB on 02/12/2008 19:22:50
it was a mid 90s corolla. it was 3cuft net internal with two RD Sonance 12s sharing the chamber.
http://www.rdaudio.net/sonance/sonance.htm
-Drew
uvMatt on 02/12/2008 19:29:16
750w RMS sounds kinda good ;)
uvMatt on 02/12/2008 19:33:00
oooooooookay..... just checked out that RD 7250.1D amplifier... 13000w RMS x 1ch.... Isn't that.... well.... kind of excessive..? That could power two MTX Jackhammers! Because EVERYBODY has a 600A fuse just for this stuff don't they??? I didn't even know stuff like this existed for automobile audio..!
newB on 02/12/2008 19:40:38
hahahaha believe it or not- its not excessive when you get into the CrAzYneSs that is competition car audio. although i have not personally seen a car running 13k watts, at the competition i was at i sat in two cars the first was 9,000watts on six mtx 12s woofers, the other was 6,000watts on two Fi 15s.
IF i didn't have to leave early i was invited to sit in steve meades SUV with 8 18s and 30,000 watts of power...... 160db @32hz anyone??
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 19:42:48
Dude, if I had the money to build a project around that amp, I would do it in a heartbeat. Here we have a statement (which accounts for all of our pollution here) "Nothing succeeds like excess" It worked in the muscle car era............
Fosgate makes a 20,000W RMS amp if I am not mistaken. Let me check this book I have, but it was for sure in the quintuple digits of RMS power.
newB on 02/12/2008 19:44:29
that RF amp is the one Meade has in his SUV its rated 15,000rms and he has TWO of them GRIN
as for that RD amp, the number your looking at is TWO 7250.1s strapped together (working as one amp)
-Drew
uvMatt on 02/12/2008 19:50:36
*attempts to imagine 160db @ 32hz, but fails*
newB on 02/12/2008 19:56:18
it took me 20min to recover from true 152db @35hz @_@
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/12/2008 19:56:42
Word Drew. Wasn't sure if it was 15 or 20K
BTW who is Meade? I don't know the names of any of the greats in competitions and the like because we don't have that stuff here. Dude I need to move......
newB on 02/12/2008 19:59:43
steavemeadedesigns.com
good stuff if you feel like browsing in your free time. he has a video of his bass removing a womans fake eyeball. (pretty funny)
-Drew
uvMatt on 02/12/2008 20:06:14
You mean http://stevemeadedesigns.com/ ? ;)
newB on 02/12/2008 20:16:32
yes
-Drew
newB on 02/12/2008 22:15:19
MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.realmofexcursion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45533&referrerid=4093
-Drew
uvMatt on 02/13/2008 12:42:49
Drew, that is insane.
There is no practical cause for this much power...
Someone on that forum has commented that one of those installs is drawing near to 200,000 watts.....
Surely the vehicles power supply would see that as a dead short??
newB on 02/13/2008 13:54:45
well, they run a 300amp alt per X # of amps, and those cars will only pull that wattage for under 8 seconds. then the batteries go on the charger ;-)
-Drew
cplkittle on 02/13/2008 15:53:41
Most of these vehicles don't even have engines. That space is converted to battery racks.
I really like those JBL crown 6000w amps :)
I'll take one of those anyday over these so called 10,000 watt amps on the market today.
Dave Jennings set records a few years back with this setup.
What does that tell you when he can hang with or exceed some of these 200,000 watt systems?
SQLThump on 02/13/2008 16:45:54
Efficency is king really. Uv is right when saying there is no practical use for these amps, which in a sence there is none, except to compete in the case of vehicles with battery racks instead of engines.
But I understand the nature of the competition, and the desire to set world records. I feel it, but there isn't a door around here to try and get my foot in.
Got a link to one of these JBL crown 6000 watters?
newB on 02/13/2008 17:02:55
i <3 JBL at work we use them all the time, speakers and amps they make such quality products. (idk the link) but i did see a pic that had a massive array of alts in the front rather than a battery box (but i'm sure your right people do do that)
-Drew
SQLThump on 02/14/2008 03:22:48
Yeah, JBL is some kickass gear. I am very loyal to Harmon International, which is why the majority of my gear for the car is made by them. Both amps are JBL, and my front components are Infinity.
Every live music venue I have been to had some JBL gear kicking around somewhere. Stuff like this reminds me much of how racing effects the car market. Crazy stuff is done to catch the public eye, and from there, it tricles down to new technology for common passenger vehicles, and can skyrocket vehicle sales. "Win on Sunday, Sell On Monday," was the saying that held true much through the muscle car era, and was key in developing many of the muscle and sports cars that dominated the day. Even GM, whith it's "no racing" policy of the 60's, was crankiing out some wicked race vehicles. The first generation Camaro Z-28's were built specifically to dominate the SCCA Trans Am series, and they did just that.
More companies need to step up their Pro Audio and live music game. It is this competive market that privides the need for business to constantly one-up the next guy, and everybody benefits, expecially us, the end user.
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