http://www.firstshowing.net/2007/11/16/must-watch-21-trailer-card-counting-mit-students/
ok bear with me, kool story I though mr B would like.... about 5-6 yrs ago I decided to take some classes with the thought of continuing on for an engineering degree. I decided to take some math classes and needed to brush up on my calc and found a local community college that was a couple miles away that would transfer to ASU. The first day I was waiting for the teacher to come in and was amazed when a really young lookin asain guy said to take our seats to begin. Actually, my jaw hit my chest when with the THICKEST southern draw you ever heard "Yall take yer seats and we'll begin". Agian, from an asian guy, I almost broke out into laughter and pointed as it seemed really really strange. It got even stranger when he gave us a brief history of himself that he was from texas had been teaching or tutering calc for 20 yrs now. Again I was shocked as I did not think he was 30 yet but then asians tend to look young right? After spending ALOT of time in the math lab I found out that he was the stereotypical asian math prodigy who had been tutoring calc since around age 10. He worked fulltime at general dynamics and was a teacher only because he liked it. I was amazed to watch this man think as he obviously saw numbers differently them most people. He was passing out our tests one day and a student from his DIFEQ class had a question so he told him to write down what he had while he took care of getting our tests. Mr Lee was Very carefull as always to make sure that nobody had any cheat sheets(i don't know why, his tests had 5 questions, you could skip one show ALL your work) while his student filled a board with his equation. Mr lee never looked at the board once but when he was done with us he turned around, looked at this board FULLA writting for 2.5 secs and then said "AH, here!" He erased the students work, filled in 6-8 lines to complete the equation(it was a 3d one) and then told the guy to go get a beer.
Mr lee was a different teacher as you could tell that he knew this stuff inside and out, was there in class because he wanted to be, and even more amazing he could make calc interesting and break it down to an idiots level so we could understand it. To have all of these together was amazing to watch and was even more amazing to learn from. One day in the math lab I noticed the guy across from he had the same book open to the chapter before me. We started talking and found out that we had different teachers, and he had a test on the last section in 2 hrs. He asked if I still had my test and I said I did have it and slid it over to him. He looked at it(4 pages filled front and most of the back for the 4 equations I solved for a high B) and paged through the first two when he asked in amazement "how long did you have to take this?". We had 2 hrs but I was done in an hr and 15 mins. He looks stunned and then asked if we were allowed to use calculators for it and I was amazed to find out they had calculators for calc 2? He pulled out an old test of his that after what mr lee had prepaired me for I could have had this one done in 20 mins. It was mainly multiple choice........ Mr Lee was the kind of stickler that would drop 1/2 a point on every line of the equation if we left of some simple nomenclature(sp?), you only did it once. he also had great real life examples of where calc was used and how. One day he went into a story about a friend of his froom mit that used similar algorythm to count cards for blackjack. I didn't realize it at the time but now it seems clear to me that he was one of the few that was probably smart enough to do this easily, and you don't just have a "friend" that wins $$$$$$ doing something you could do easily and probably even enjoy the challenge of it. When I saw this preview a few days ago I was sure that there would be an asain dude in there somewhere and was not suprised...
Replies (5)
MrBrownstone on 01/10/2008 16:33:20
Unfortunately, because of teams like the MIT guys, most Vegas casinos changed the rules where none of this would ever be able to happen again because the game is rigged too much.
Here's the adjustments they since they kicked me out of 'the four corners' if you know what I mean:
Pitch: cards are dealt face down to all players to prevent players from getting any idea of how good the deck is until after the hand is over.
No double after split: essentially, when you know the dealer is 78% to bust & you are 78% to improve to a 16+ hand, you double down. In 2 deck 'pitch', this option is all but eliminated except @ Imperial Palace.
Dealing <50% of the cards in play: in a 2 deck shoe, they don't deal down to 20-25 cards like they did in the day. If they did, the mathematics become crazy as you know all but about 4 remaining cards. How'd you like to be 16-4? Some dealers will 'help a brutha out' for a shoe or 2 if we are heads up, but only if you don't make it too obvious or win too much in one sitting.
Continuous shufflers: since they instigated these, Bellagio hasn't lost a dime in any BJ pit ever. They are constant randomizers to an already rigged game.
Dealer Hits Soft 17: If the dealer gets A6, he takes a free hit at you.
Floor distractions: If you win, they are always talking to you being 'friendly' as they are responsible if a pit loses money in a particular shift. Like I wanna talk to an old wiseguy from brooklynn. If Gisele Bundchen wants to pretend that I'm attractive, then it'd be worth a few dimes...even if I have to pay her in Euros!! USFLAG
Why is this all important?
Dealers have to hit 16, stand in 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & Bust. Here's all the available options:
17 (hard) 16.5%
18 33%
19 50%
20 67%
21 83.5%
BUST 0%
If you the player have 17, you lose 4/6 times, push 1x and win 1x. Therefore, you are 67% to LOSE!!! You win 1/6, 16.5%, and push 16.5%
Even if you you hit 21, you ONLY win 83.5% of the time!!!! So how can counting cards matter?
When the dealer has an up card of a:
2-6: He must hit no matter what, therefore more likely to buts
7-10: including facecards, he's likely to have 17 or higher 5/6 times (83.5)
A: if he doesn't have blackjack, it will take 2 cards to bust him...happening so rarely, you might as well consider his upcard to be an 11 or 1!!!
In any case, since the major rule changes, side bets, etc, making money counting is a thing of the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s. Since about 1999, it's very difficult to do without enlisting a dealer who is willing to lose his job over 1 score.
Team Blackjack is hard because you share your profits with many and as with any team, everyone thinks they are worth more than an equal share.
Scouting a table is great
Math guy playing is essential
Security/diversion is imperative
Gorilla is a nice touch
Banker--the only way a team works is with someone that doesn't get involved in the heat of battle and can make rational decisions.
If you are willing to win $100s, it's a great side income in the midwest where the rules are decent. Of course, you can't make enough to significantly offset travel expenses very well or change your life as the limits rarely exceed a 1/10 ratio in higher limits.
In Vegas, AC, etc., Fagetaboutit! you can't even get a fair game for a decent amount of money.
END RANT
MrBrownstone on 01/10/2008 16:34:19
PS the only thing I'm interested with in that movie 21 is Kate Bosworth :-) USFLAG
swez on 01/10/2008 22:53:42
Saw this on the History Channel some time back and this MIT team was making some serious money back in the days when...
As some may know, Mr. B used to be a solid player on the 21 tables. He explained some details on how it works and my mind was spinning like... a blender making frozen banana/rum/cokes.
As I listened to his "low-down", it hit me that Mr. B is a math wiz and understood probablites and outcomes like few I have met since whenever. The guy's mind is like a steel bear trap when numbers are on the line. (Very impressive to say the least)
Anyway, kudo's to B as he now plays poker as a 2nd job and probably does a fair job at it too. And kudo's to ttocs. (Seems like you've come out of the shell a bit more this month?) Hope you are feeling better.
Swez
MrBrownstone on 01/11/2008 15:20:13
Hee Hee
If BJ was a 'fair game' again, it would be interesting being 328 miles from vegas. I don't think I'd be able to go to the 'four corners' anymore.
There's so much math involved, that was simplfied by identies. The Exact Normalized Count & other shortcuts make it so someone that can memorize most of the charts doesn't even need to know a whole lot about math, other than your advantage is only a few percent when counting...therefore, you can't deviate from the advanced strategy or face losing money very quickly.
The main issue is that if we know there are more BIG cards than small cards left in the deck, we can make certain moves (doubling down & splitting) to stretch our 2% advantage to ~10%. However, to do this, the game must be fair.
When betting $10/hand, you play 100 hands per hour (heads up or 2 players). That's $1000 wagered, & $100 earned at full capacity.
Although $100/hr seems quite profound, it's because you are raising your bet to 10X the minimum ($100) per hand when the deck is solid, losing money at $10 per hand for a while when waiting for the count to change or shuffle.
Oh...the tales of getting harassed by floor people...intimidation, friendly...my favorite one, just before they pulled my card was,
"..Gosh Mr B, you're a great customer and helpful at the table. Others love playing with you, my dealers are tipped very well. But you know, it'd make my job so much easier if you didn't come around so often."
END BIOGRAPHY
ttocs on 01/12/2008 22:05:51
I sas that same video swez did about the mit people. They got blackballed from all the US casino's and went to monte carlo. I guess after doing VERY well as usual they pulled them aside and searched them for machines, and then told them that it would be very VERY wise to leave and never EVER come back.... Talk about intimidation... They could lock ya up in a room and throw the room away.....
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