I decided to make a new thred because the old one was getting close to 100 and I was tired of scrolling all the way down..
Today I went to a audio shop and this is what I bought...
Single Sub
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_8754_Rockford+Fosgate+Punch+P2D412.html
Sub Amp
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=120&i=575P3001P&c=3&tp=115
Speaker amp
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=120&i=500MRPF250&c=3&tp=115
Sub Box
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7008542&productCategoryId=abcat0302036&type=product&tab=2&id=1099392684268#productdetail
The total was $581.23 with a 4 year warranty for the Sub..
I still need to get the speakers and wiring..
I know we went through this but the guy there said it was highly recommended that I get a capacitor..Is this true or is he just trying to get a sell??
Also I wanted to know what you thought about it because I went there to check prices and this is what I ended up coming out with..
Also I need a matching set of speakers that will go with the 4 Channel amp
Should I just Forget about the rears and just buy a good set of components for the front??
And everyone is telling me the sub box was a bad choice and I should have made one..Why is this?
Replies (74)
Grdevs24zero on 12/10/2007 13:41:59
Number one: Go back to the shop and slap the guy for saying you need a capacitor. These are for people that just want to bandaid things and not deal with the problems at hand. A good battery, proper sized wiring and good connections are what you want, not a capacitor.
I highly recommend just going with the quality front stage (just the front speakers). I used to be very adamant about the use of rear fill, but now that I've had the time and knowledge to go through and install and tune a system the way it should be, there is absolutely no need for rear fill other than added volume.
As for the box issue, I've never had the money to go buy one, so I've always made my own. If you have the tools, time, and know-how, then you shouldn't hesitate to build your own for optimal gains. If you are lacking in any of the three areas, you are pretty much forced to buy a box, which is never made specifically for your car, for your tastes, and your type of music. They have to incorporate alot of different people's tastes and make a box to accommodate as many as they can, thus sacrificing in the areas that you may deem the most important.
What would your budget for a pair of speakers be? With that 4 channel amp (40 watts x 4) I'm honestly a little worried that your sub will overpower the rest of the system, making it extremely baas heavy. The only way I see around this is to bridge the amp at 100 x 2, but then you are almost forced to just do the front stage. There would be a way around this, but it all depends on your leftover budget.
Tip that the shop might not have told you or might not have known: Rockford Fosgate will extend the warranty of any Rockford amp by 2 years (might be one, but I think mine was 2 years) if you use a Rockford wire kit. There will be a sticker inside the wiring kit, and you simply go online to register your amp and type in the code of the kit you used. The wire in itself is worthy of being used with any other amp on the market, it's truely quality stuff.
swez on 12/10/2007 18:11:58
Agreed on a few comments by GRD ...
1. Forget the Cap
2. Invest well in front stage speakers
3. Rear fill speakers need not be expensive or high power to get very good results
That sub will do well with the amp you have picked. The question is whether to go sealed or ported? Sealed units are generally the most accurate, but you'll have to modify, (add internal filler) to the box to get optimal internal airspace for this sub as a sealed unit.
If you go ported/vented, tuning this vent/port to optimal may take some time and listening w/ a critical ear. When using a ported/vented sub, always use a Subsonic/Infrasonic filter system. (Protects the sub)
Comments?
Swez
iXvXi on 12/10/2007 20:42:03
I would say around $150 but I think I can go over a little
iXvXi on 12/11/2007 09:52:37
I was looking at these because of the price break...
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=410&i=1085010CS&tp=106
But when the Alpine is bridged it is 100 watts RMS x 2 bridged output at 4 ohms Stable...
The Infinity's RMS Power Range is 2-75...Will they be fine or are they overpowered to much??
Also are they good quality speakers..Because I need something loud enough that won't get overpowered by the bass
iXvXi on 12/11/2007 09:59:08
Or these for a little more...
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?showAll=Y&g=410&i=107DB5250&tp=106
But will they be underpowered then??
Grdevs24zero on 12/11/2007 17:52:19
Either of those speakers should do just fine.
Would you consider ordering your speakers online? There are some nice savings you can get buying over the internet instead of going to the local shop.
I saw both of those speaker sets on www.sonicelectronix.com for about ~$20 cheaper than Crutch, just a heads up.
swez on 12/11/2007 18:33:10
Agreed... either would be a nice option for your needs. Am a tad partial to the Infinity as I have used both Polk and Infinity and like the Infinity setup well for front or rear speakers. (Not that Polk is a 2nd best choice, but Infinity just impressed me most)
Swez
iXvXi on 12/11/2007 22:23:45
okay infinity it is...
I was going to order from crutchfield because it comes with the brackets and harnesses for free..
Now that I look..They just sold out..
any other suggestions?
swez on 12/12/2007 03:25:42
Call them and find out when a restocking order will come in. It's Christmas and that means heavy orders, low stock and probably hot items will be on back order for a few weeks.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/12/2007 09:15:16
I already did..They said they were being discontinued so they will not going to get anymore in.. :(
On crutchfield it says the next best thing is the kenwood set..
I can buy them from sonic electronix but it doesn't come with all the stuff that crutchfield does
What do you think??
jamesp on 12/12/2007 12:34:10
I must have bought close to the last set of those Infinity 5010 components on closeout.$89.00
At the same time Sonicelectric also had them on closeout for 76.00 or so. They will also include the adapter brackets if you use thier, fit my car, feature
The 5010's seem to be the only 4 Ohm comps available from Infinity as the components that replaced the 5010's are 2 Ohms.
I have the 60.7 Infinity Kappas (this is the 5x7/6x8" )set for my front stage. They are 2 Ohm comps and will play very loud without distorting. You should maybe look at the Kappa line since you are amplifing them.
I ordered everything for a new system in my daughters car from Crutchfield a week or so ago and it was here 2 days later. Incredible service. If money is tight, you can find the Kappa's on Sonicelectronics ebay site for only a few dollars more than Crutchfield sells the Refrence series for normally. I have been satisfied with all purchases and service from Sonic also.The mastersheets on your specific vehicle that Crutchfield furnishes when you buy anything from them are priceless if you dont know the drill for taking your cars interior panels apart.
swez on 12/12/2007 15:17:55
If you are amping the front speakers, consider the 2 ohm version of the Infinity Kappa's as a solid option. If not, the Polks are a solid #2 choice if they are in stock and you can get it all from Crutch.
Most HU amps cannot handle 2 ohm loads well. But when amped and not bridged, the added power is adequate if you have a solid 60-80 Wrms at 2 ohms from your amp.
The worst case scenario here, use the 2 ohm Kappa's and add power resistors to get a solid 4 ohms to your HU. This will work, but not optimal w/o amping.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/12/2007 21:30:25
I never even Realized Sonicelectronix even had that feature...other wise I'd probably went with them..
Sonicelectronix still has the 5010cs, If this is my best option , I should just go with them..But from what Swez said, I should go with a 2 0hm set, so then the 5010cs wouldn't be good because they are 4 0hm
Also for the Kappa 50.7cs, there is a huge difference between prices with Crutchfield and sonicelectronix but still might be a little pricey but I'm going to talk my dad into buying them..
Swez said I shouldn't bridge but will my amp be able to handle the Kappa 50.7's when not bridged??
swez on 12/13/2007 00:30:51
Hold on.... either speakers would be suitable for your needs.
The 2 ohm version is nice, more expensive and bridging the amp is not advisable. These speakers like a lot of RMS power too. (50 Wrms per speaker is OK, but not enough to get the most from these at the premium price)
The 4 ohm version is fine, less expensive and you can bridge the amp for more power to these speakers.
With this amp, (Alpine MRP-F250) it can deliver the following power:
40 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms
50 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms
100 watts RMS x 2 bridged output at 4 ohms
In this case, using the 4 ohm Infinity's and bridging the amp down to a 2 channel amp makes the most $$$'s and sense. If you do plan to use rear speakers, power them off the HU amps.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/13/2007 00:41:57
haha okay...
I think I understand now
swez on 12/13/2007 06:06:50
Very good... take your time and plan well. One cannot rush a great install in the planning stages w/o suffering setbacks later.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/14/2007 21:24:10
I purchased the infinity 5010cs from sonicelectronix and then bought the brackets and harnesses from crutchfied..
The total was $121.00..
And I'm going to do what someone mentioned..To run the rears off the head unit for a fill in..I'm going to use whats already in the rears
I'm getting wiring hopefully this weekend
swez on 12/15/2007 08:50:18
Sounds like a good plan here. The 5010cs series likes clean power. Bridging that amp would feed them well.
Th rear speakers are just fill in most cases and they can be run off the HU amps and faded as needed to blend in with the front stage. If you wanted better speakers in the back stage later, that can be done at another time. These can be full range coaxials or simple MB fill as you wish.
Swez
SQLThump on 12/15/2007 16:15:40
Also, you may want to put in some basic "bass Blocker" crossovers in line with the rear speakers if you plan to run off internal power to block distortion causing bass from reeaching your rear speakers. This may not be neccassary, but if your rear speakers are distorting from H/U power before your fronts are even coming close, this can help prevent it.
jamesp on 12/15/2007 19:10:59
How much did Sonic charge for the 5010's they were 76.00 or so the other day. The set I bought from Crutchfield the other day was 89.00 with wiring pitails and 6x8 to 5.25 adapter plates .
At least you will get the master sheets from Crutch...they help a lot on unfamiliar vehicles.
iXvXi on 12/17/2007 12:41:15
$91.01 with shipping then crutchfield charged me $29.99 for the brackets and harnesses..
I'm looking to purchase wiring today so I'm checking lengths, but I'm referring back to the old topic because I can't remember the gauges we agreed on..
I looked at bestbuy for wiring because I had a $75 gift card but just the Rockford wiring kit was $110.00 alone so I think im sticking with KnuKonceptz but thats not up to me
Sorry for the late reply, I was sick for about 4 days..
iXvXi on 12/19/2007 09:42:45
I received the brackets and harnesses yesterday and should receive the components today..
A list of the wiring I'm buying
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLM-K4
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=PB-1448
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=PB-1448
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLM8PRL
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOL8BL
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KARSS4.4M
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KARSS2.1M
Another Question..
Do I need to run a Turn on lead to the 4 channel then to the Mono? Or do I need to run 2 separate ones from the HU..But when I was wiring the HU I realized that there is only one turn on remote lead..
Also The RCA that comes with the amp kit says the Remote Turn on Lead in built in..Do I use that or separate? Or Should I not even use the RCA that comes with it..Or then other way around (Not use the 2 Channel 1 meter RCA That I included in the list)
Sorry for all of the questions but I seem to be a little worried about wiring..I usually Work with Computer's so this is a big step.
iXvXi on 12/19/2007 09:49:02
Sorry for the links..I cant seem to fix it..When I goto edit it target=_blank isnt there
swez on 12/19/2007 18:18:48
That comes up sometimes and we can work around the "blank target" thing
The Main kit, offers the #4 power, ground, fuse/holder and a single pair RCA line that you won't be using for now. It's worth having as a spare if wiring changes between HU to sub amp are needed later. The #4 ground will not be needed here unless one amp can handle #4 wire.
As for the remote line, use #18 gage bulk wire from any good hardware store. You can probably get it in blue too. You'll need about 20 feet here and it's really low cost, so no biggie if you buy long and cut to length.
To wire both amp remotes, just use one blue wire jumper from the 4 channel to your sub amp. The connections are:
1. One end to HU REM turn on wire
2. Other end to 4 channel REM lug
3. A short jumper to sub amp Rem
As for speaker cable, use #16 for the 4 channel and #12 gage wire for sub.
The D-block noted is fine and all you need is about 6 feet of #8 ground wire. (That's about 3 feet of ground cable to each amp) The shorter the ground cable to chassis ground, the better.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/19/2007 18:31:19
So I won't be running the ground off a d block?
swez on 12/19/2007 18:53:15
No need to use a d-block for ground unless you want to. It looks cleaner and not a big expense either. Flip a coin... either way you win.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/19/2007 19:26:26
Okay..I'm not going to use one then..
what ever saves me a few bucks
iXvXi on 12/27/2007 15:14:55
everything came in...
I'm laying everything out so I can buy the wiring..then the only thing left would be the installation
swez on 12/28/2007 07:30:22
Very good. Plan your install well and expect a few challenges along the way.
Crutchfield has a few free install videos and diagrams that can help you visualize how to install your speakers, amps and wiring. The videos are pretty basic and make it look very easy too... but these guys are Pros and chose an easy car to work on.
http://www.crutchfield.com/learningcenter/car/amplifiers_movie.html?format=wmv
Wiring diagram:
http://www.crutchfield.com/learningcenter/car/amplifiers_wiring.html
Swez
iXvXi on 12/29/2007 02:18:06
Thanks..
I took apart my door panel today and took out the factory speaker to see what it looked like so I can plan a little better..I also found that I might have some trouble with the speaker installation but should be fixed with some modifications..
I also went to the Hardware store to check out the Remote Turn on Lead..They had a few different gauges and I wasn't sure what to get so I decided to ask you guys..What Gauge should I go with??
I figured it would be 16 because of the speaker wire but it looked a little small for the amp..
I already found out that I'm going to need to do some modifications in order to get everything to the way I want it..
For instance, When I laid everything out to see how much wiring I needed, I noticed that If I get a flat there is no way to getting to my spare without taking everything out in order to do that I'd need a screw driver..So I might look into building a box and try to moving everything to a place where I could still get to my spare if I needed to.
swez on 12/29/2007 06:34:07
As for the wire gage for HU to amp remotes, this is very low power and #16-20 gage is plenty good. (12 volts, 1/3A)
As for speaker installs, the driver's side door is often the most challenging if you have power windows, seats and mirror harnesses to remove in the process of getting the panel out of the way. Each harness is unique so that one does not get confused where they go again later.
As mentioned, do try to lay out your gear in the trunk so that the spare tire is easy to get at. Sometimes, it's easier to mount the amps on a board that can be mounted out of the way. (Perhaps on the back wall where the rear seats are, or below the rear deck speakers?) Just leave long enough wires to remove the board and have some working room as needed.
Once the amps are dialed in and tweaked the way you want it, then install the board w/ amps and excess wires that are easily hidden later.
Swez
trunkisloud on 12/29/2007 20:08:35
how extensive are you gonna be with your component install? you goin custom or just whatever is easy and looks nice.?? here are a couple pics of my 2 vehicles with the same component sets in them ...incase you need some ideas...pardon the wire on the truck install
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u317/v8mike/Picture005.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u317/v8mike/mikepics025-1.jpg
swez on 12/30/2007 14:30:16
On pic #2, (The truck door) how do the tweeters sound in that location after having some time listening to them?
Do they blend well or beam at the driver and passenger and cause "listener's fatigue" after some time at higher sound levels?
Would you choose that location again if doing another one?
Just curious,
Swez
trunkisloud on 12/30/2007 18:28:57
well the main purpose for putting them there was because i havnt seen anyone do that before...but they can get a little loud...but these crossovers have adjustable settings for the tweets so you can tone em down a bit...not too bad ...the quality stays clean at high volumes so yea i guess i would do it again...maybe just a little neater..
jamesp on 12/31/2007 09:59:15
Here is a woofer in the stock location with the tweeter flush mounted above. These tweets rotate in the mounting cups which allows you to aim them for best
http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p265/jamesp_1/F-150%20ext%20cab%20Lariat/?action=view¤t=DSCN2060.jpg
SQLThump on 01/1/2008 04:05:02
The Hyundia's comps looks waay sick man. They look better than factory. Like a speaker snowman or something.......
trunkisloud on 01/1/2008 13:18:42
lol snowman...i never look at it like that until you said that...thanx....im gettin rid of the truck in pursuit of a trans am ....hopefully soon.
iXvXi on 01/2/2008 09:11:24
There is a spot just along the side of the top of my seatbelt that looks like it has enough room to flush mount it..
is there any space limit that i should keep the tweeter from the crossover?
swez on 01/2/2008 19:29:23
There are several choices in tweeter placement, but the basic idea is not to aim them at the faces/head of the driver or passenger. They tend beam a narrow cone of high frequencies about 30 degrees and cause listener fatigue at high power levels. A little experimentation is usually a good option with 2-sided tape as a temporary locator.
Also, most prefer to keep the tweeter within a few inches of the Midrange speaker on on the same vertical plane. This insures the mids and highs reach our ears at the same time. (Like James P's pic) That shows a very well placed tweeter/mid combination. Ideal placememnt for this door panel design. (Well done Jimmy)
Finally, the length of wire from the crossover to either speaker is of little consequence. Some guys mount the crossovers back at the amps and run speaker wires from there, to the doors. (#16 gage wire is plenty here and try to keep speaker lines to equal lengths when possible. Yes, door mounted crossovers are fine, as long as they don't get excess moisture. In fact, one can even mount them under the dash if there's enough room. Just remember that crossovers will get warm at sustained high power levels. Allow enough air flow space to keep them reasonable.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/3/2008 09:58:15
For some reason I thought they were supposed to be aimed at you..
That's the reason why I picked that spot but from what you said makes it much easier to find a open place to flush mount them
swez on 01/3/2008 18:56:53
Quote: "For some reason I thought they were supposed to be aimed at you.." (meaning the driver and/or passenger, chest high, not the head)
Not a good plan. Tweets have a narrow dispersion characteristic that can be very objectionable/disturbing to the listener. Tweets are very efficient at beaming highs too. Put the plan in action and you'll say... "Dang... these tweeters are ripping my ears off". That's why we often suggest temporary install locations, moving them to various locations until the "sweet spot" is found. (That varies a lot)
All tweeters have an "on and off axis" sound radiating pattern. To figure out what sounds best in a given vehicle install, (And to the listener)some trial and error adjustments are often used) Let your ears be the guide and then figure out what sounds best for your preferences.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/4/2008 16:28:02
Another quick question...
do I need to run a 4 channel Rca from my HU to my 4 channel or can I just run two 2 channels??
Also I'm looking to buy this because I have a gift card
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8286883&productCategoryId=abcat0307006&type=product&tab=1&id=1172276905085#productdetail
It already comes with a long 2 channel Rca which means all I have to do is buy another long 2 channel and a short one for the Sub amp..(If Im able to run two 2 channels)
Also I'd buy this
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8286972&type=product&id=1174091579312
Then the only thing that would be left is another Ground wire, Two Power wires from the block to the amps, 12 guage speaker wire
(Correct me if im wrong)
Also whats the guage of the power wire that goes from the d block to the amps?
iXvXi on 01/4/2008 16:29:39
I must of typed that about three times..
First time I hit escape and the second I pushed backspace when I wasn't clicked on the page :(
swez on 01/4/2008 22:42:11
Hum, hate when that happens...
Help me out here Xi... which Comps did you buy for the front stage? (2 ohm or 4 ohm Infinity's)
As for the mentioned wiring kit, it's doable as is and all you'll need is some #8 gage power and ground wiring for each amp mentioned earlier.
As for the RCA's, if you bridge the F250 down to 2 stronger channels and power the rear speakers off the HU amps, you'll only need 1 long pair of RCA's from the HU to 4 channel amp. As for audio signals to the sub amp, the F250 has a pair of preouts to feed your sub amp and need only a short RCA line for that.
Read your amp manuals carefully as they have the options and how to wire them for the system you plan are planning now.
As for the comments on that RF sub, it's not top of the line Rockford gear, but in the proper enclosure, it should make some decent bass. The thing that makes this sub an iffy choice, is the poly-foam surround. That material breaks down over time as the foam rots from heat and moisture. It may take several years before that happens, so no need to sweat that issue for now. For the price, it's just an OK purchase.
Swez
PS I hope you have the 4 ohm Infinity Comps on hand right now. That would be the proper choice if bridging the F250 amp down to a stronger 2 channel version. If you did buy the 2 ohm version, then amping the rear speakers would be a good option and another long pair of RCA's are needed. If these are 4 ohm Comps, good to go as is.
Comments please?
iXvXi on 01/4/2008 23:32:20
I don't think I'm going to have to worry about that because I'm probably going to build another in a couple of years..
The infinity's are 4 0hm...
And Thanks for filling me in on the RCA's..For some reason it never clicked in that I wasn't running the rears off the amp..
As For the RF Sub..Is the P3 a lot better In quality and sound??
If so I might regret not buying that instead..I was trying to save a little money and I believe ASH recommend it..Correct me if I'm wrong..
Another Quick question..
I have a 6' Recoton AC211 Stereo RCA Cable laying around and I got to thinking if I could use it from the 4 Channel to the Sub amp...
If not then I'll go buy one..No biggie
But why not use something you already have then going out and buying the same thing
P.S.
I'll get on reading the manuals..I read the Sub manual but never got around on reading the rest
cplkittle on 01/5/2008 00:17:30
I didn't read the entire post, so I may be off a little here..
If the HU has a subwoofer output, it is better to use that RCA out than jumping off a mids/highs amplifier. That way you get full controll of the sub gain, and sometimes (depending on the HU) LPF adjustments from the driver's seat.
If you only have 4 RCA outputs on the HU, a short RCA will be fine to jump to the sub amp. The Recoton AC 211 looks to be an unshielded RCA. I would try to avoid running it anywhere near power wires. If you get a 'hum' in the subs it is because this is not a shielded pair of RCA cables, and a nicer pair may be needed.
iXvXi on 01/5/2008 01:06:51
Yeah Thats what I figured..But I wanted to find out for sure
And I not sure about the Sub output..I have to check tom.
swez on 01/5/2008 10:57:10
Forgot to answer a key question... the ohmic rating of your Infinity Comps? (2 or 4 ohm)
Swez
iXvXi on 01/5/2008 13:54:39
4 Ohm..
It was up a few posts because I was talking to cplkittle
swez on 01/5/2008 14:16:39
Great, that means you can bridge the F250 to a stronger 2 channel and feed the Comps very well. That was not clear to me before, so I needed confirmation to guide you best later. Proceed as planned.
Kit also made a good suggestion about using the rear channel RCA's off your HU to power the sub amp. Yes, it means running 2 pair of long RCA's, but if the HU control features can help manage your bass output on the fly, (Menu controls) all the better and worth the extra time and $.
I just looked back on the HU choice mentioned way back when. The Pioneer DEH-P3900 MP. This HU has 3 pair of RCA's. (Front/Rear/Sub outputs)
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=300&i=130DEHP390&tp=5684&tab=detailed_info
If this is what you'll be using, use the sub channel RCA's to manage the bass engine from the HU. You don't need the LP Filter as the sub amp already has that feature. However, the variable output feature is nice if you don't use the remote bass control feature on that RF amp. They can be combined as well for even more bass engine control.
It's a simple process when using the amp remote bass controller as you need not hunt through HU menus for adequate bass control. The menus are helpful, but also cumbersome too. Keep that in mind as you do the install. We'll walk you through the steps, but read your manuals for a clear understanding of each system components capabilities.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/5/2008 19:43:02
I went with your advice with the sub output and decided to go for it..
Couple of this that I bought..
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8286883&type=product&id=1172276905085
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8286721&type=product&id=1174091579002
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8287365&type=product&id=1174091579746
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8286703&type=product&id=1174091578940
And I bought 30' of 16 AWG speaker wire that wasnt on the site..
I bought the Capacitor install kit for the ground on the sub amp instead of buying a whole another amp install kit..
Anything I forgot??
swez on 01/6/2008 05:55:00
Just the #8 gage ground wires for each amp and Cap is all. You can buy that in bulk wire and add crimp terminals as needed. Each ground should be as short as possible. (Under 3.0 feet)
The rest of the kit and add ons are OK as noted.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/6/2008 11:08:40
okay..
Im starting the installation today and I thought of a few more questions..
When you install the componants you run your own speaker wire..So what do you do with the old wire already ran from the factory?? Do I leave it there or pull it all out
swez on 01/6/2008 12:37:36
In most cases, just leave the stock wiring in place. Most of it can be used in your install.
As for amp to front stage Comp wiring strategy, most guys do well with running speaker lines from the amp up to the HU and tap into the stock speaker lines at the HU. The speaker wires out of the HU harness pigtail must be snipped and taped off and splice your new speaker lines at the HU. Crimp type barrel connectors are use to splice new and factory lines as needed.
Then, inside the door panels, we use the stock speaker wires and feed them to the input side of the crossover and the output side of the crossover to woofer and tweeter as needed. Try to locate a well protected spot in the door panel to mount the crossover. Then extend wires as needed for a 1st rate job.
Tech Tip: Crossovers need to be kept dry and away from water that tends to drip down into the door cavity at the window seals. A weather proof flap of Neoprene gasket works well and can take the heat often generated by passive crossovers and deflect water as well. A single sheet of 0.250" thick, 8" x 8" is enough for both crossovers. Just cut to the size needed and use short self tapping sheet metal screws or pop rivets to hold them in place. This is the last item to install before reinstalling the door panels. (Test your system before putting the door panels back on)
You'll want to make sure you have plenty of the blue barrel type crimp connectors (#16-18 wire gage) on hand. A good wire stripper,cutter & crimper tool is also needed. The 4 in 1 type crimper tool, (Handy Dutchman) does well for most folks and cheap too. It looks like this:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=092-580
Hope that helps,
Swez
PS Take your time and make sure all crimp connections are solid before you button things up. "DO NOT USE ELECTRICAL TAPE AS A SPLICING TOOL"!!! Tape is fine for bundling loose wires, but makes for a lousy wire connection method.
iXvXi on 01/6/2008 17:57:18
I have a good wire stripper and crimper tool on hand..
I was thinking of just mounting the crossover on the door panel
(On the inside of the car) then drilling a small hole for the wires..
I wish I knew I could of went from the old speaker wiring..Can I still just leave the old and wire the new myself?
So far I wired both RCA's the remote turn on lead both speaker wires and the power..
Here's a couple of pictures of the mess I made lol..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0106081516b.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0106081516a.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0106081516.jpg
Another thing..
Can I use the 16 gauge speaker wire for the tweeter and stuff or is that a smaller gauge?? The manual it came with isn't very good
And what gauge do I run from the sub amp to the sub?
Last thing..
Do I have to purchase a Y splitter in order to bridge the 4 channel to the ininitys??
swez on 01/8/2008 04:57:26
Nice mess there Xi... that's what it takes though... big job huh?
Yes, just leave the factory wires as is, but make sure there is no amp signal voltage running to them. (Snip the wires at the HU and cap them off to prevent shorts) That's for the front speakers only. The stock wires that feed the rear speaker can be used to power the rear speakers as noted before.
#16 wire is fine for your tweeters. Since that is what you have on hand, no need to use a different gage.
For the speaker lines from sub amp to subs, use #12 gage wire here. #12 wire can handle up to 2400 watts and be fine.
The last question answer is in the amp manual. It will explain what input signal wiring needs and how to do them. Some amps have internal summing circuits and Y splitters are not required. (Some do not)
Since you will be bridging the 4 channel down to a 2 channel version for the front Comps, most amps will have enough gain when only using 1 pair of RCA inputs.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/8/2008 20:22:08
Couple of questions about bridging..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/Alpine2.jpg
Why are they only using Left and not right??or am I supposed to do that for right to..
Next Question..
On the top of the page do I wire my component's the same way but use High Pass instead? or do I just use the front, Left and Right
P.S.
Sorry for all the questions but I don't really have anyone to double check myself and when I do try I find myself explaining something I don't really understand..
I appreciate all of your help and walking me through this..I don't have much money (I passed the $1,000 mark $100 ago) but I set aside $10.00 before I started purchasing everything so I would be able to donate if I came short of money..So I should be able to get around into putting that into my pay pal account this weekend
swez on 01/10/2008 07:19:46
Use the wiring diagram as shown in Fig. 7 for your Alpine 4 channel. (Top of the page)
1. Here, you'll need two "Y Splitters" at the amp as shown in the top diagram. (Audio inputs from HU RCA's) This is the proper method for Bridging and a true L/R stereo output to each Component speaker kit. (Inputs are RF/RR & LF/LR as shown)
2. Bridging the amp is done as shown in the diagram. (Observe polarity as shown on this page)
3. Set the HPF to ~80 Hz initially for both F/R Channels (Tweak as needed later)
4. Set amp gains for each channel at 2.0 Volts (Tweak as needed later)
This will give you 2 stronger channels when done as shown in the upper diagram. The HP filters will block deep lows to the Components up front. When bridged as shown, you'll have 2 x 100 watts RMS to power your 4 ohm Component kit. (L & R speakers)
Got all that now?
Swez
PS We'll work on the sub system when you are ready for that part of the system. It will be simple as you only have 1 sub and a MONO amp to deal with here. This sub is well matched to the RF amp noted earlier. If you have a AC voltage meter, it will help set your gain properly later.
iXvXi on 01/10/2008 09:12:24
Here's a link to the "Y" splitters I'm buying..
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?search=Y&i=211ZN5Y2M
Also I think I might have a problem..
When I ran the RCA's I forgot to label one of them so I'd know what RCA goes to which amp..Is there anyway to find out which RCA is what or do I have to pull them out then re-label it?
P.S.
I have a AC voltage meter but its just the matter of finding where its at..
jamesp on 01/10/2008 15:14:04
That will be easy...just set your DVM to resistance(Ohms). Use the tone feature if you want, touch one of the leads to one side of the front of one of the usb cable and the other lead to the same color on the rear end of a cable, if you get a tone, or a reading, you will know that you have the same cable.
If only one pair isnt labeled though you should know where the UNLABELED pair goes since the other pairs are labeled.
swez on 01/10/2008 16:29:20
Huuh? (I know what you mean here Jimmy... but a Newbie may not) LOL You are now a seasoned Veteran. Xi is feeling his way blindly.
"Usb cables", "tone feature"... what the heck are we talking about here now? GRIN
This is a process of elimination. There's a 50/50 chance of getting it right the 1st time around. Worst case here, you'll get the right channel HU, playing out of the left amp channel and visa-versa. That's a simple fix... swap RCA wires at the "Y Splitter" hardware and move along. Using the R/L balance control will tell you is it's right or bass-ack-wards.
Yes, these are the correct "Y Splitter" cables needed. Not a cheap fix, but quality wires and connectors count too. I would guess that Radio Shack has the same option for about $5.00 per set. That's up to you.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/11/2008 22:48:23
Okay I'll try that Tomorrow..
Thanks Swez for explaining that better..Thank you Jamesp for explaining it but yous my's well be speaking chinese..
I might take a look at Radio-Shack and see what they got if not I'll just go with Crutchfield..
If the weather isnt bad then I'll get to working on the front speakers and flush mounting the tweeter..Or should I wait to flush mount it until the end so I can listen to it fisrt?
swez on 01/12/2008 02:05:27
Install the midrange as planned and your crossovers too. Use 2 sided tape for temporary mounting expeiriments for the tweeters. Use long speaker lines for tweeters until you find the best sounding location. Once that is determined, then make it permanent with the proper mounting hardware that came with the kit. (You can then shorten the wires as needed, but leave a foot extra for working ease)
Can you take a few clear pics of the driver's side door panel? We may be able to help you figure out the best placements for the tweeters by pics.
Swez
swez on 01/12/2008 02:12:14
By the way, you did a very good job at dismanteling the dash, doors and other vehicle panels.
What vehicle is this anyway?
Swez
iXvXi on 01/12/2008 15:03:18
Thanks...
Today Is nice So I'll Take a few pics and maybe get started wiring the crossover..Thanks for the heads up..
Its a 1997 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24
Here's a link just in case..
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z187/default.aspx
iXvXi on 01/12/2008 16:43:50
Heres a bunch of pictures I took..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/Car.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081628a.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081628.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081627.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081624.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081618.jpg
swez on 01/12/2008 18:04:32
Very good pics here and from the looks of things, the rear stowage pocket in the front doors, look ideal for the crossover mounting location?
As for the tweeter mount, it looks like a good place to start, would be above/front of the door speaker or above the seam and just forward of the door latch system. Play with the tweeter location as needed to get good coverage, but not beaming at the driver/passenger head, but up to a focal point near the rear view mirror.
The aiming/focal point here, is a matter of personal taste and preference. The sail panels would be a good choice, but the manual joystick makes that all but impossible.
What do you see?
Swez
PS Just for laughs, do you know what "Cavalier" actually means?
iXvXi on 01/12/2008 21:13:05
I thought of the same exact places for both the crossover and tweeter as you..
And as far as knowing what Cavalier means..
(I have no clue whats so ever)
swez on 01/13/2008 11:17:55
Very good, we are on the same page and if the crossovers fit in those rear pockets, the rest will be a breeze.
These tweeters, do they have adjustable or swivel type gimble type mounts? It appears they do when used in the flush mount cup system supplied in this kit.
Quote from Crutchfield:
"Flush Mount: Flush mounting is made easy through the use of the threaded flush-mount adapter and plastic locking nut. Once a cutout is made, the flush-mount adapter (with the tweeter installed) is inserted into the hole. The large plastic locking nut is threaded onto the adapter (from behind the mounting surface) to hold the complete assembly securely in place. When flush mounted, the tweeters may be angled for optimum response and imaging".
Noting the dimensions of the cup, (2.0" D and 1.75" cutout and a 2" OD) locating a place in the door panel that can accomodate that may prove a bit tricky.
From what is shown in this pic, it looks like the logical location for the tweeter would be just forward of the door latch handle and above the woofer. It looks like there is a good size access hole in the metal door facing and covered with the plastic membrane. (Moisture barrier)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081624.jpg
Is there a cutout, (trapazoid shape) there or no?
Swez
PS Cavalier means: "Jumper". Or another meaning in history for the flamboyant dress of the weathy. (swashbuckling, swaggering and gallant attitudes of that day)
iXvXi on 01/13/2008 16:17:53
Yes, when the tweeter is flush mounted it allows it to move in a up and down motion..in order for it to move side ways I believe you have to mount it on the side..
Yes, there is cutout above the speaker mount and left of the door handle..The door interior where we were talking about mounting the tweeter bows out a little bit so there should be plenty of room to flush mount it..
I wounder why they would base a car model over a definition such as that..Unless maybe they thought the name was cool or something..lol
P.S.
Do you think the one 12" Rockford will be heavy bass for my sized car?
Also If it isn't, what would I have to do to get another sub to work with everything else?
(You don't have to go real detailed, I just wanna know what I would have to go through)
swez on 01/13/2008 22:30:56
That's a solid sub/amp combo and you'll have good bass, but not to the point of blowing out your windows. I did some number crunching here and see that you can expect about 107dB of bass at 250 watts RMS.
Then, we factor in another conservative +10dB from cabin gain for a solid 117dB of bass SPL at full power. (Nothing to break a brag book record, but not wimpy either)
In this car, the rear seats drop down and that makes it more like a hatchback. So, I would expect with them down, you'll get a few more free dB's of bass here too. (Very respectable number for the budget)
If you went to a larger amp and dual subs, power consumption issues will become an issue and electrical upgrades would be likely as well. That gets expensive going from a stock 100/105A ALT to a High Output one of say 175A's. (~$400 upgrade here)
Until your budget can handle that upgrade, better to stand pat on where things are right now.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/14/2008 09:21:22
Okay, I'm probably not going to go that far until maybe I get a better job..But its not to the point where I wanna save my money for another year for more bass..
swez on 01/14/2008 19:07:46
Right... but the cost is not just a larger amp and another sub either. That's what I want to bring to your attention. There's more to it ... is a few dB more bass really worth all the added expense? (Only the user can rationlize the cost VS benefits)
Swez
iXvXi on 01/23/2008 08:48:50
I just wanted to let you guys know I didn't forget about you..
I'm still working on everything little by little because of the Cold and I don't have a garage to park it in..
Today I went to a audio shop and this is what I bought...
Single Sub
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_8754_Rockford+Fosgate+Punch+P2D412.html
Sub Amp
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=120&i=575P3001P&c=3&tp=115
Speaker amp
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=120&i=500MRPF250&c=3&tp=115
Sub Box
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7008542&productCategoryId=abcat0302036&type=product&tab=2&id=1099392684268#productdetail
The total was $581.23 with a 4 year warranty for the Sub..
I still need to get the speakers and wiring..
I know we went through this but the guy there said it was highly recommended that I get a capacitor..Is this true or is he just trying to get a sell??
Also I wanted to know what you thought about it because I went there to check prices and this is what I ended up coming out with..
Also I need a matching set of speakers that will go with the 4 Channel amp
Should I just Forget about the rears and just buy a good set of components for the front??
And everyone is telling me the sub box was a bad choice and I should have made one..Why is this?
Replies (74)
Grdevs24zero on 12/10/2007 13:41:59
Number one: Go back to the shop and slap the guy for saying you need a capacitor. These are for people that just want to bandaid things and not deal with the problems at hand. A good battery, proper sized wiring and good connections are what you want, not a capacitor.
I highly recommend just going with the quality front stage (just the front speakers). I used to be very adamant about the use of rear fill, but now that I've had the time and knowledge to go through and install and tune a system the way it should be, there is absolutely no need for rear fill other than added volume.
As for the box issue, I've never had the money to go buy one, so I've always made my own. If you have the tools, time, and know-how, then you shouldn't hesitate to build your own for optimal gains. If you are lacking in any of the three areas, you are pretty much forced to buy a box, which is never made specifically for your car, for your tastes, and your type of music. They have to incorporate alot of different people's tastes and make a box to accommodate as many as they can, thus sacrificing in the areas that you may deem the most important.
What would your budget for a pair of speakers be? With that 4 channel amp (40 watts x 4) I'm honestly a little worried that your sub will overpower the rest of the system, making it extremely baas heavy. The only way I see around this is to bridge the amp at 100 x 2, but then you are almost forced to just do the front stage. There would be a way around this, but it all depends on your leftover budget.
Tip that the shop might not have told you or might not have known: Rockford Fosgate will extend the warranty of any Rockford amp by 2 years (might be one, but I think mine was 2 years) if you use a Rockford wire kit. There will be a sticker inside the wiring kit, and you simply go online to register your amp and type in the code of the kit you used. The wire in itself is worthy of being used with any other amp on the market, it's truely quality stuff.
swez on 12/10/2007 18:11:58
Agreed on a few comments by GRD ...
1. Forget the Cap
2. Invest well in front stage speakers
3. Rear fill speakers need not be expensive or high power to get very good results
That sub will do well with the amp you have picked. The question is whether to go sealed or ported? Sealed units are generally the most accurate, but you'll have to modify, (add internal filler) to the box to get optimal internal airspace for this sub as a sealed unit.
If you go ported/vented, tuning this vent/port to optimal may take some time and listening w/ a critical ear. When using a ported/vented sub, always use a Subsonic/Infrasonic filter system. (Protects the sub)
Comments?
Swez
iXvXi on 12/10/2007 20:42:03
I would say around $150 but I think I can go over a little
iXvXi on 12/11/2007 09:52:37
I was looking at these because of the price break...
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=410&i=1085010CS&tp=106
But when the Alpine is bridged it is 100 watts RMS x 2 bridged output at 4 ohms Stable...
The Infinity's RMS Power Range is 2-75...Will they be fine or are they overpowered to much??
Also are they good quality speakers..Because I need something loud enough that won't get overpowered by the bass
iXvXi on 12/11/2007 09:59:08
Or these for a little more...
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?showAll=Y&g=410&i=107DB5250&tp=106
But will they be underpowered then??
Grdevs24zero on 12/11/2007 17:52:19
Either of those speakers should do just fine.
Would you consider ordering your speakers online? There are some nice savings you can get buying over the internet instead of going to the local shop.
I saw both of those speaker sets on www.sonicelectronix.com for about ~$20 cheaper than Crutch, just a heads up.
swez on 12/11/2007 18:33:10
Agreed... either would be a nice option for your needs. Am a tad partial to the Infinity as I have used both Polk and Infinity and like the Infinity setup well for front or rear speakers. (Not that Polk is a 2nd best choice, but Infinity just impressed me most)
Swez
iXvXi on 12/11/2007 22:23:45
okay infinity it is...
I was going to order from crutchfield because it comes with the brackets and harnesses for free..
Now that I look..They just sold out..
any other suggestions?
swez on 12/12/2007 03:25:42
Call them and find out when a restocking order will come in. It's Christmas and that means heavy orders, low stock and probably hot items will be on back order for a few weeks.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/12/2007 09:15:16
I already did..They said they were being discontinued so they will not going to get anymore in.. :(
On crutchfield it says the next best thing is the kenwood set..
I can buy them from sonic electronix but it doesn't come with all the stuff that crutchfield does
What do you think??
jamesp on 12/12/2007 12:34:10
I must have bought close to the last set of those Infinity 5010 components on closeout.$89.00
At the same time Sonicelectric also had them on closeout for 76.00 or so. They will also include the adapter brackets if you use thier, fit my car, feature
The 5010's seem to be the only 4 Ohm comps available from Infinity as the components that replaced the 5010's are 2 Ohms.
I have the 60.7 Infinity Kappas (this is the 5x7/6x8" )set for my front stage. They are 2 Ohm comps and will play very loud without distorting. You should maybe look at the Kappa line since you are amplifing them.
I ordered everything for a new system in my daughters car from Crutchfield a week or so ago and it was here 2 days later. Incredible service. If money is tight, you can find the Kappa's on Sonicelectronics ebay site for only a few dollars more than Crutchfield sells the Refrence series for normally. I have been satisfied with all purchases and service from Sonic also.The mastersheets on your specific vehicle that Crutchfield furnishes when you buy anything from them are priceless if you dont know the drill for taking your cars interior panels apart.
swez on 12/12/2007 15:17:55
If you are amping the front speakers, consider the 2 ohm version of the Infinity Kappa's as a solid option. If not, the Polks are a solid #2 choice if they are in stock and you can get it all from Crutch.
Most HU amps cannot handle 2 ohm loads well. But when amped and not bridged, the added power is adequate if you have a solid 60-80 Wrms at 2 ohms from your amp.
The worst case scenario here, use the 2 ohm Kappa's and add power resistors to get a solid 4 ohms to your HU. This will work, but not optimal w/o amping.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/12/2007 21:30:25
I never even Realized Sonicelectronix even had that feature...other wise I'd probably went with them..
Sonicelectronix still has the 5010cs, If this is my best option , I should just go with them..But from what Swez said, I should go with a 2 0hm set, so then the 5010cs wouldn't be good because they are 4 0hm
Also for the Kappa 50.7cs, there is a huge difference between prices with Crutchfield and sonicelectronix but still might be a little pricey but I'm going to talk my dad into buying them..
Swez said I shouldn't bridge but will my amp be able to handle the Kappa 50.7's when not bridged??
swez on 12/13/2007 00:30:51
Hold on.... either speakers would be suitable for your needs.
The 2 ohm version is nice, more expensive and bridging the amp is not advisable. These speakers like a lot of RMS power too. (50 Wrms per speaker is OK, but not enough to get the most from these at the premium price)
The 4 ohm version is fine, less expensive and you can bridge the amp for more power to these speakers.
With this amp, (Alpine MRP-F250) it can deliver the following power:
40 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms
50 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms
100 watts RMS x 2 bridged output at 4 ohms
In this case, using the 4 ohm Infinity's and bridging the amp down to a 2 channel amp makes the most $$$'s and sense. If you do plan to use rear speakers, power them off the HU amps.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/13/2007 00:41:57
haha okay...
I think I understand now
swez on 12/13/2007 06:06:50
Very good... take your time and plan well. One cannot rush a great install in the planning stages w/o suffering setbacks later.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/14/2007 21:24:10
I purchased the infinity 5010cs from sonicelectronix and then bought the brackets and harnesses from crutchfied..
The total was $121.00..
And I'm going to do what someone mentioned..To run the rears off the head unit for a fill in..I'm going to use whats already in the rears
I'm getting wiring hopefully this weekend
swez on 12/15/2007 08:50:18
Sounds like a good plan here. The 5010cs series likes clean power. Bridging that amp would feed them well.
Th rear speakers are just fill in most cases and they can be run off the HU amps and faded as needed to blend in with the front stage. If you wanted better speakers in the back stage later, that can be done at another time. These can be full range coaxials or simple MB fill as you wish.
Swez
SQLThump on 12/15/2007 16:15:40
Also, you may want to put in some basic "bass Blocker" crossovers in line with the rear speakers if you plan to run off internal power to block distortion causing bass from reeaching your rear speakers. This may not be neccassary, but if your rear speakers are distorting from H/U power before your fronts are even coming close, this can help prevent it.
jamesp on 12/15/2007 19:10:59
How much did Sonic charge for the 5010's they were 76.00 or so the other day. The set I bought from Crutchfield the other day was 89.00 with wiring pitails and 6x8 to 5.25 adapter plates .
At least you will get the master sheets from Crutch...they help a lot on unfamiliar vehicles.
iXvXi on 12/17/2007 12:41:15
$91.01 with shipping then crutchfield charged me $29.99 for the brackets and harnesses..
I'm looking to purchase wiring today so I'm checking lengths, but I'm referring back to the old topic because I can't remember the gauges we agreed on..
I looked at bestbuy for wiring because I had a $75 gift card but just the Rockford wiring kit was $110.00 alone so I think im sticking with KnuKonceptz but thats not up to me
Sorry for the late reply, I was sick for about 4 days..
iXvXi on 12/19/2007 09:42:45
I received the brackets and harnesses yesterday and should receive the components today..
A list of the wiring I'm buying
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLM-K4
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=PB-1448
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=PB-1448
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLM8PRL
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOL8BL
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KARSS4.4M
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KARSS2.1M
Another Question..
Do I need to run a Turn on lead to the 4 channel then to the Mono? Or do I need to run 2 separate ones from the HU..But when I was wiring the HU I realized that there is only one turn on remote lead..
Also The RCA that comes with the amp kit says the Remote Turn on Lead in built in..Do I use that or separate? Or Should I not even use the RCA that comes with it..Or then other way around (Not use the 2 Channel 1 meter RCA That I included in the list)
Sorry for all of the questions but I seem to be a little worried about wiring..I usually Work with Computer's so this is a big step.
iXvXi on 12/19/2007 09:49:02
Sorry for the links..I cant seem to fix it..When I goto edit it target=_blank isnt there
swez on 12/19/2007 18:18:48
That comes up sometimes and we can work around the "blank target" thing
The Main kit, offers the #4 power, ground, fuse/holder and a single pair RCA line that you won't be using for now. It's worth having as a spare if wiring changes between HU to sub amp are needed later. The #4 ground will not be needed here unless one amp can handle #4 wire.
As for the remote line, use #18 gage bulk wire from any good hardware store. You can probably get it in blue too. You'll need about 20 feet here and it's really low cost, so no biggie if you buy long and cut to length.
To wire both amp remotes, just use one blue wire jumper from the 4 channel to your sub amp. The connections are:
1. One end to HU REM turn on wire
2. Other end to 4 channel REM lug
3. A short jumper to sub amp Rem
As for speaker cable, use #16 for the 4 channel and #12 gage wire for sub.
The D-block noted is fine and all you need is about 6 feet of #8 ground wire. (That's about 3 feet of ground cable to each amp) The shorter the ground cable to chassis ground, the better.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/19/2007 18:31:19
So I won't be running the ground off a d block?
swez on 12/19/2007 18:53:15
No need to use a d-block for ground unless you want to. It looks cleaner and not a big expense either. Flip a coin... either way you win.
Swez
iXvXi on 12/19/2007 19:26:26
Okay..I'm not going to use one then..
what ever saves me a few bucks
iXvXi on 12/27/2007 15:14:55
everything came in...
I'm laying everything out so I can buy the wiring..then the only thing left would be the installation
swez on 12/28/2007 07:30:22
Very good. Plan your install well and expect a few challenges along the way.
Crutchfield has a few free install videos and diagrams that can help you visualize how to install your speakers, amps and wiring. The videos are pretty basic and make it look very easy too... but these guys are Pros and chose an easy car to work on.
http://www.crutchfield.com/learningcenter/car/amplifiers_movie.html?format=wmv
Wiring diagram:
http://www.crutchfield.com/learningcenter/car/amplifiers_wiring.html
Swez
iXvXi on 12/29/2007 02:18:06
Thanks..
I took apart my door panel today and took out the factory speaker to see what it looked like so I can plan a little better..I also found that I might have some trouble with the speaker installation but should be fixed with some modifications..
I also went to the Hardware store to check out the Remote Turn on Lead..They had a few different gauges and I wasn't sure what to get so I decided to ask you guys..What Gauge should I go with??
I figured it would be 16 because of the speaker wire but it looked a little small for the amp..
I already found out that I'm going to need to do some modifications in order to get everything to the way I want it..
For instance, When I laid everything out to see how much wiring I needed, I noticed that If I get a flat there is no way to getting to my spare without taking everything out in order to do that I'd need a screw driver..So I might look into building a box and try to moving everything to a place where I could still get to my spare if I needed to.
swez on 12/29/2007 06:34:07
As for the wire gage for HU to amp remotes, this is very low power and #16-20 gage is plenty good. (12 volts, 1/3A)
As for speaker installs, the driver's side door is often the most challenging if you have power windows, seats and mirror harnesses to remove in the process of getting the panel out of the way. Each harness is unique so that one does not get confused where they go again later.
As mentioned, do try to lay out your gear in the trunk so that the spare tire is easy to get at. Sometimes, it's easier to mount the amps on a board that can be mounted out of the way. (Perhaps on the back wall where the rear seats are, or below the rear deck speakers?) Just leave long enough wires to remove the board and have some working room as needed.
Once the amps are dialed in and tweaked the way you want it, then install the board w/ amps and excess wires that are easily hidden later.
Swez
trunkisloud on 12/29/2007 20:08:35
how extensive are you gonna be with your component install? you goin custom or just whatever is easy and looks nice.?? here are a couple pics of my 2 vehicles with the same component sets in them ...incase you need some ideas...pardon the wire on the truck install
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u317/v8mike/Picture005.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u317/v8mike/mikepics025-1.jpg
swez on 12/30/2007 14:30:16
On pic #2, (The truck door) how do the tweeters sound in that location after having some time listening to them?
Do they blend well or beam at the driver and passenger and cause "listener's fatigue" after some time at higher sound levels?
Would you choose that location again if doing another one?
Just curious,
Swez
trunkisloud on 12/30/2007 18:28:57
well the main purpose for putting them there was because i havnt seen anyone do that before...but they can get a little loud...but these crossovers have adjustable settings for the tweets so you can tone em down a bit...not too bad ...the quality stays clean at high volumes so yea i guess i would do it again...maybe just a little neater..
jamesp on 12/31/2007 09:59:15
Here is a woofer in the stock location with the tweeter flush mounted above. These tweets rotate in the mounting cups which allows you to aim them for best
http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p265/jamesp_1/F-150%20ext%20cab%20Lariat/?action=view¤t=DSCN2060.jpg
SQLThump on 01/1/2008 04:05:02
The Hyundia's comps looks waay sick man. They look better than factory. Like a speaker snowman or something.......
trunkisloud on 01/1/2008 13:18:42
lol snowman...i never look at it like that until you said that...thanx....im gettin rid of the truck in pursuit of a trans am ....hopefully soon.
iXvXi on 01/2/2008 09:11:24
There is a spot just along the side of the top of my seatbelt that looks like it has enough room to flush mount it..
is there any space limit that i should keep the tweeter from the crossover?
swez on 01/2/2008 19:29:23
There are several choices in tweeter placement, but the basic idea is not to aim them at the faces/head of the driver or passenger. They tend beam a narrow cone of high frequencies about 30 degrees and cause listener fatigue at high power levels. A little experimentation is usually a good option with 2-sided tape as a temporary locator.
Also, most prefer to keep the tweeter within a few inches of the Midrange speaker on on the same vertical plane. This insures the mids and highs reach our ears at the same time. (Like James P's pic) That shows a very well placed tweeter/mid combination. Ideal placememnt for this door panel design. (Well done Jimmy)
Finally, the length of wire from the crossover to either speaker is of little consequence. Some guys mount the crossovers back at the amps and run speaker wires from there, to the doors. (#16 gage wire is plenty here and try to keep speaker lines to equal lengths when possible. Yes, door mounted crossovers are fine, as long as they don't get excess moisture. In fact, one can even mount them under the dash if there's enough room. Just remember that crossovers will get warm at sustained high power levels. Allow enough air flow space to keep them reasonable.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/3/2008 09:58:15
For some reason I thought they were supposed to be aimed at you..
That's the reason why I picked that spot but from what you said makes it much easier to find a open place to flush mount them
swez on 01/3/2008 18:56:53
Quote: "For some reason I thought they were supposed to be aimed at you.." (meaning the driver and/or passenger, chest high, not the head)
Not a good plan. Tweets have a narrow dispersion characteristic that can be very objectionable/disturbing to the listener. Tweets are very efficient at beaming highs too. Put the plan in action and you'll say... "Dang... these tweeters are ripping my ears off". That's why we often suggest temporary install locations, moving them to various locations until the "sweet spot" is found. (That varies a lot)
All tweeters have an "on and off axis" sound radiating pattern. To figure out what sounds best in a given vehicle install, (And to the listener)some trial and error adjustments are often used) Let your ears be the guide and then figure out what sounds best for your preferences.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/4/2008 16:28:02
Another quick question...
do I need to run a 4 channel Rca from my HU to my 4 channel or can I just run two 2 channels??
Also I'm looking to buy this because I have a gift card
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8286883&productCategoryId=abcat0307006&type=product&tab=1&id=1172276905085#productdetail
It already comes with a long 2 channel Rca which means all I have to do is buy another long 2 channel and a short one for the Sub amp..(If Im able to run two 2 channels)
Also I'd buy this
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8286972&type=product&id=1174091579312
Then the only thing that would be left is another Ground wire, Two Power wires from the block to the amps, 12 guage speaker wire
(Correct me if im wrong)
Also whats the guage of the power wire that goes from the d block to the amps?
iXvXi on 01/4/2008 16:29:39
I must of typed that about three times..
First time I hit escape and the second I pushed backspace when I wasn't clicked on the page :(
swez on 01/4/2008 22:42:11
Hum, hate when that happens...
Help me out here Xi... which Comps did you buy for the front stage? (2 ohm or 4 ohm Infinity's)
As for the mentioned wiring kit, it's doable as is and all you'll need is some #8 gage power and ground wiring for each amp mentioned earlier.
As for the RCA's, if you bridge the F250 down to 2 stronger channels and power the rear speakers off the HU amps, you'll only need 1 long pair of RCA's from the HU to 4 channel amp. As for audio signals to the sub amp, the F250 has a pair of preouts to feed your sub amp and need only a short RCA line for that.
Read your amp manuals carefully as they have the options and how to wire them for the system you plan are planning now.
As for the comments on that RF sub, it's not top of the line Rockford gear, but in the proper enclosure, it should make some decent bass. The thing that makes this sub an iffy choice, is the poly-foam surround. That material breaks down over time as the foam rots from heat and moisture. It may take several years before that happens, so no need to sweat that issue for now. For the price, it's just an OK purchase.
Swez
PS I hope you have the 4 ohm Infinity Comps on hand right now. That would be the proper choice if bridging the F250 amp down to a stronger 2 channel version. If you did buy the 2 ohm version, then amping the rear speakers would be a good option and another long pair of RCA's are needed. If these are 4 ohm Comps, good to go as is.
Comments please?
iXvXi on 01/4/2008 23:32:20
I don't think I'm going to have to worry about that because I'm probably going to build another in a couple of years..
The infinity's are 4 0hm...
And Thanks for filling me in on the RCA's..For some reason it never clicked in that I wasn't running the rears off the amp..
As For the RF Sub..Is the P3 a lot better In quality and sound??
If so I might regret not buying that instead..I was trying to save a little money and I believe ASH recommend it..Correct me if I'm wrong..
Another Quick question..
I have a 6' Recoton AC211 Stereo RCA Cable laying around and I got to thinking if I could use it from the 4 Channel to the Sub amp...
If not then I'll go buy one..No biggie
But why not use something you already have then going out and buying the same thing
P.S.
I'll get on reading the manuals..I read the Sub manual but never got around on reading the rest
cplkittle on 01/5/2008 00:17:30
I didn't read the entire post, so I may be off a little here..
If the HU has a subwoofer output, it is better to use that RCA out than jumping off a mids/highs amplifier. That way you get full controll of the sub gain, and sometimes (depending on the HU) LPF adjustments from the driver's seat.
If you only have 4 RCA outputs on the HU, a short RCA will be fine to jump to the sub amp. The Recoton AC 211 looks to be an unshielded RCA. I would try to avoid running it anywhere near power wires. If you get a 'hum' in the subs it is because this is not a shielded pair of RCA cables, and a nicer pair may be needed.
iXvXi on 01/5/2008 01:06:51
Yeah Thats what I figured..But I wanted to find out for sure
And I not sure about the Sub output..I have to check tom.
swez on 01/5/2008 10:57:10
Forgot to answer a key question... the ohmic rating of your Infinity Comps? (2 or 4 ohm)
Swez
iXvXi on 01/5/2008 13:54:39
4 Ohm..
It was up a few posts because I was talking to cplkittle
swez on 01/5/2008 14:16:39
Great, that means you can bridge the F250 to a stronger 2 channel and feed the Comps very well. That was not clear to me before, so I needed confirmation to guide you best later. Proceed as planned.
Kit also made a good suggestion about using the rear channel RCA's off your HU to power the sub amp. Yes, it means running 2 pair of long RCA's, but if the HU control features can help manage your bass output on the fly, (Menu controls) all the better and worth the extra time and $.
I just looked back on the HU choice mentioned way back when. The Pioneer DEH-P3900 MP. This HU has 3 pair of RCA's. (Front/Rear/Sub outputs)
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=300&i=130DEHP390&tp=5684&tab=detailed_info
If this is what you'll be using, use the sub channel RCA's to manage the bass engine from the HU. You don't need the LP Filter as the sub amp already has that feature. However, the variable output feature is nice if you don't use the remote bass control feature on that RF amp. They can be combined as well for even more bass engine control.
It's a simple process when using the amp remote bass controller as you need not hunt through HU menus for adequate bass control. The menus are helpful, but also cumbersome too. Keep that in mind as you do the install. We'll walk you through the steps, but read your manuals for a clear understanding of each system components capabilities.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/5/2008 19:43:02
I went with your advice with the sub output and decided to go for it..
Couple of this that I bought..
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8286883&type=product&id=1172276905085
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8286721&type=product&id=1174091579002
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8287365&type=product&id=1174091579746
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8286703&type=product&id=1174091578940
And I bought 30' of 16 AWG speaker wire that wasnt on the site..
I bought the Capacitor install kit for the ground on the sub amp instead of buying a whole another amp install kit..
Anything I forgot??
swez on 01/6/2008 05:55:00
Just the #8 gage ground wires for each amp and Cap is all. You can buy that in bulk wire and add crimp terminals as needed. Each ground should be as short as possible. (Under 3.0 feet)
The rest of the kit and add ons are OK as noted.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/6/2008 11:08:40
okay..
Im starting the installation today and I thought of a few more questions..
When you install the componants you run your own speaker wire..So what do you do with the old wire already ran from the factory?? Do I leave it there or pull it all out
swez on 01/6/2008 12:37:36
In most cases, just leave the stock wiring in place. Most of it can be used in your install.
As for amp to front stage Comp wiring strategy, most guys do well with running speaker lines from the amp up to the HU and tap into the stock speaker lines at the HU. The speaker wires out of the HU harness pigtail must be snipped and taped off and splice your new speaker lines at the HU. Crimp type barrel connectors are use to splice new and factory lines as needed.
Then, inside the door panels, we use the stock speaker wires and feed them to the input side of the crossover and the output side of the crossover to woofer and tweeter as needed. Try to locate a well protected spot in the door panel to mount the crossover. Then extend wires as needed for a 1st rate job.
Tech Tip: Crossovers need to be kept dry and away from water that tends to drip down into the door cavity at the window seals. A weather proof flap of Neoprene gasket works well and can take the heat often generated by passive crossovers and deflect water as well. A single sheet of 0.250" thick, 8" x 8" is enough for both crossovers. Just cut to the size needed and use short self tapping sheet metal screws or pop rivets to hold them in place. This is the last item to install before reinstalling the door panels. (Test your system before putting the door panels back on)
You'll want to make sure you have plenty of the blue barrel type crimp connectors (#16-18 wire gage) on hand. A good wire stripper,cutter & crimper tool is also needed. The 4 in 1 type crimper tool, (Handy Dutchman) does well for most folks and cheap too. It looks like this:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=092-580
Hope that helps,
Swez
PS Take your time and make sure all crimp connections are solid before you button things up. "DO NOT USE ELECTRICAL TAPE AS A SPLICING TOOL"!!! Tape is fine for bundling loose wires, but makes for a lousy wire connection method.
iXvXi on 01/6/2008 17:57:18
I have a good wire stripper and crimper tool on hand..
I was thinking of just mounting the crossover on the door panel
(On the inside of the car) then drilling a small hole for the wires..
I wish I knew I could of went from the old speaker wiring..Can I still just leave the old and wire the new myself?
So far I wired both RCA's the remote turn on lead both speaker wires and the power..
Here's a couple of pictures of the mess I made lol..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0106081516b.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0106081516a.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0106081516.jpg
Another thing..
Can I use the 16 gauge speaker wire for the tweeter and stuff or is that a smaller gauge?? The manual it came with isn't very good
And what gauge do I run from the sub amp to the sub?
Last thing..
Do I have to purchase a Y splitter in order to bridge the 4 channel to the ininitys??
swez on 01/8/2008 04:57:26
Nice mess there Xi... that's what it takes though... big job huh?
Yes, just leave the factory wires as is, but make sure there is no amp signal voltage running to them. (Snip the wires at the HU and cap them off to prevent shorts) That's for the front speakers only. The stock wires that feed the rear speaker can be used to power the rear speakers as noted before.
#16 wire is fine for your tweeters. Since that is what you have on hand, no need to use a different gage.
For the speaker lines from sub amp to subs, use #12 gage wire here. #12 wire can handle up to 2400 watts and be fine.
The last question answer is in the amp manual. It will explain what input signal wiring needs and how to do them. Some amps have internal summing circuits and Y splitters are not required. (Some do not)
Since you will be bridging the 4 channel down to a 2 channel version for the front Comps, most amps will have enough gain when only using 1 pair of RCA inputs.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/8/2008 20:22:08
Couple of questions about bridging..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/Alpine2.jpg
Why are they only using Left and not right??or am I supposed to do that for right to..
Next Question..
On the top of the page do I wire my component's the same way but use High Pass instead? or do I just use the front, Left and Right
P.S.
Sorry for all the questions but I don't really have anyone to double check myself and when I do try I find myself explaining something I don't really understand..
I appreciate all of your help and walking me through this..I don't have much money (I passed the $1,000 mark $100 ago) but I set aside $10.00 before I started purchasing everything so I would be able to donate if I came short of money..So I should be able to get around into putting that into my pay pal account this weekend
swez on 01/10/2008 07:19:46
Use the wiring diagram as shown in Fig. 7 for your Alpine 4 channel. (Top of the page)
1. Here, you'll need two "Y Splitters" at the amp as shown in the top diagram. (Audio inputs from HU RCA's) This is the proper method for Bridging and a true L/R stereo output to each Component speaker kit. (Inputs are RF/RR & LF/LR as shown)
2. Bridging the amp is done as shown in the diagram. (Observe polarity as shown on this page)
3. Set the HPF to ~80 Hz initially for both F/R Channels (Tweak as needed later)
4. Set amp gains for each channel at 2.0 Volts (Tweak as needed later)
This will give you 2 stronger channels when done as shown in the upper diagram. The HP filters will block deep lows to the Components up front. When bridged as shown, you'll have 2 x 100 watts RMS to power your 4 ohm Component kit. (L & R speakers)
Got all that now?
Swez
PS We'll work on the sub system when you are ready for that part of the system. It will be simple as you only have 1 sub and a MONO amp to deal with here. This sub is well matched to the RF amp noted earlier. If you have a AC voltage meter, it will help set your gain properly later.
iXvXi on 01/10/2008 09:12:24
Here's a link to the "Y" splitters I'm buying..
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?search=Y&i=211ZN5Y2M
Also I think I might have a problem..
When I ran the RCA's I forgot to label one of them so I'd know what RCA goes to which amp..Is there anyway to find out which RCA is what or do I have to pull them out then re-label it?
P.S.
I have a AC voltage meter but its just the matter of finding where its at..
jamesp on 01/10/2008 15:14:04
That will be easy...just set your DVM to resistance(Ohms). Use the tone feature if you want, touch one of the leads to one side of the front of one of the usb cable and the other lead to the same color on the rear end of a cable, if you get a tone, or a reading, you will know that you have the same cable.
If only one pair isnt labeled though you should know where the UNLABELED pair goes since the other pairs are labeled.
swez on 01/10/2008 16:29:20
Huuh? (I know what you mean here Jimmy... but a Newbie may not) LOL You are now a seasoned Veteran. Xi is feeling his way blindly.
"Usb cables", "tone feature"... what the heck are we talking about here now? GRIN
This is a process of elimination. There's a 50/50 chance of getting it right the 1st time around. Worst case here, you'll get the right channel HU, playing out of the left amp channel and visa-versa. That's a simple fix... swap RCA wires at the "Y Splitter" hardware and move along. Using the R/L balance control will tell you is it's right or bass-ack-wards.
Yes, these are the correct "Y Splitter" cables needed. Not a cheap fix, but quality wires and connectors count too. I would guess that Radio Shack has the same option for about $5.00 per set. That's up to you.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/11/2008 22:48:23
Okay I'll try that Tomorrow..
Thanks Swez for explaining that better..Thank you Jamesp for explaining it but yous my's well be speaking chinese..
I might take a look at Radio-Shack and see what they got if not I'll just go with Crutchfield..
If the weather isnt bad then I'll get to working on the front speakers and flush mounting the tweeter..Or should I wait to flush mount it until the end so I can listen to it fisrt?
swez on 01/12/2008 02:05:27
Install the midrange as planned and your crossovers too. Use 2 sided tape for temporary mounting expeiriments for the tweeters. Use long speaker lines for tweeters until you find the best sounding location. Once that is determined, then make it permanent with the proper mounting hardware that came with the kit. (You can then shorten the wires as needed, but leave a foot extra for working ease)
Can you take a few clear pics of the driver's side door panel? We may be able to help you figure out the best placements for the tweeters by pics.
Swez
swez on 01/12/2008 02:12:14
By the way, you did a very good job at dismanteling the dash, doors and other vehicle panels.
What vehicle is this anyway?
Swez
iXvXi on 01/12/2008 15:03:18
Thanks...
Today Is nice So I'll Take a few pics and maybe get started wiring the crossover..Thanks for the heads up..
Its a 1997 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24
Here's a link just in case..
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z187/default.aspx
iXvXi on 01/12/2008 16:43:50
Heres a bunch of pictures I took..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/Car.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081628a.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081628.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081627.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081624.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081618.jpg
swez on 01/12/2008 18:04:32
Very good pics here and from the looks of things, the rear stowage pocket in the front doors, look ideal for the crossover mounting location?
As for the tweeter mount, it looks like a good place to start, would be above/front of the door speaker or above the seam and just forward of the door latch system. Play with the tweeter location as needed to get good coverage, but not beaming at the driver/passenger head, but up to a focal point near the rear view mirror.
The aiming/focal point here, is a matter of personal taste and preference. The sail panels would be a good choice, but the manual joystick makes that all but impossible.
What do you see?
Swez
PS Just for laughs, do you know what "Cavalier" actually means?
iXvXi on 01/12/2008 21:13:05
I thought of the same exact places for both the crossover and tweeter as you..
And as far as knowing what Cavalier means..
(I have no clue whats so ever)
swez on 01/13/2008 11:17:55
Very good, we are on the same page and if the crossovers fit in those rear pockets, the rest will be a breeze.
These tweeters, do they have adjustable or swivel type gimble type mounts? It appears they do when used in the flush mount cup system supplied in this kit.
Quote from Crutchfield:
"Flush Mount: Flush mounting is made easy through the use of the threaded flush-mount adapter and plastic locking nut. Once a cutout is made, the flush-mount adapter (with the tweeter installed) is inserted into the hole. The large plastic locking nut is threaded onto the adapter (from behind the mounting surface) to hold the complete assembly securely in place. When flush mounted, the tweeters may be angled for optimum response and imaging".
Noting the dimensions of the cup, (2.0" D and 1.75" cutout and a 2" OD) locating a place in the door panel that can accomodate that may prove a bit tricky.
From what is shown in this pic, it looks like the logical location for the tweeter would be just forward of the door latch handle and above the woofer. It looks like there is a good size access hole in the metal door facing and covered with the plastic membrane. (Moisture barrier)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/iXvXi/0112081624.jpg
Is there a cutout, (trapazoid shape) there or no?
Swez
PS Cavalier means: "Jumper". Or another meaning in history for the flamboyant dress of the weathy. (swashbuckling, swaggering and gallant attitudes of that day)
iXvXi on 01/13/2008 16:17:53
Yes, when the tweeter is flush mounted it allows it to move in a up and down motion..in order for it to move side ways I believe you have to mount it on the side..
Yes, there is cutout above the speaker mount and left of the door handle..The door interior where we were talking about mounting the tweeter bows out a little bit so there should be plenty of room to flush mount it..
I wounder why they would base a car model over a definition such as that..Unless maybe they thought the name was cool or something..lol
P.S.
Do you think the one 12" Rockford will be heavy bass for my sized car?
Also If it isn't, what would I have to do to get another sub to work with everything else?
(You don't have to go real detailed, I just wanna know what I would have to go through)
swez on 01/13/2008 22:30:56
That's a solid sub/amp combo and you'll have good bass, but not to the point of blowing out your windows. I did some number crunching here and see that you can expect about 107dB of bass at 250 watts RMS.
Then, we factor in another conservative +10dB from cabin gain for a solid 117dB of bass SPL at full power. (Nothing to break a brag book record, but not wimpy either)
In this car, the rear seats drop down and that makes it more like a hatchback. So, I would expect with them down, you'll get a few more free dB's of bass here too. (Very respectable number for the budget)
If you went to a larger amp and dual subs, power consumption issues will become an issue and electrical upgrades would be likely as well. That gets expensive going from a stock 100/105A ALT to a High Output one of say 175A's. (~$400 upgrade here)
Until your budget can handle that upgrade, better to stand pat on where things are right now.
Swez
iXvXi on 01/14/2008 09:21:22
Okay, I'm probably not going to go that far until maybe I get a better job..But its not to the point where I wanna save my money for another year for more bass..
swez on 01/14/2008 19:07:46
Right... but the cost is not just a larger amp and another sub either. That's what I want to bring to your attention. There's more to it ... is a few dB more bass really worth all the added expense? (Only the user can rationlize the cost VS benefits)
Swez
iXvXi on 01/23/2008 08:48:50
I just wanted to let you guys know I didn't forget about you..
I'm still working on everything little by little because of the Cold and I don't have a garage to park it in..
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