I recently purchased a 02 F-150 XLT. Wanted to upgrade from the stock system. I have always heard great things about JL audio so I went to the only dealer in my area. They sold me and installed four 5x7 JLs and a 10" JL W3 sub under the back seat. The amp they paired with it is really my concern. The salesman didn`t even suggest a JL amp he said to go with a T.M.A. 500x1 because it is made by JL and would push the sub no problem. I am currently not happy with the sound I`m getting. I have great sound through the 5x7s but the sub cant keep up. I have the head unit sub output all the way up and the amp level output, bass boost, all the way up also. I have also adjusted the X-over on the amp properly. The sub barely jumps. You can hear the bass but only if I crank my head unit all the way up. My question is did they pair the right AMP for my sub. I can`t even adjust the bass at all. Its either all or nothin. Is their something I can adjust that I don`t know about? Please help I just spent alot of money and the people that installed it don`t know a damn thing.
Replies (7)
jamesp on 11/30/2007 11:15:20
Find out what impedence the dual voice coils are on your sub. If they sold you a dual 4 Ohm voice coil model that can be wired for a 2 Ohm load. It looks like your amp has received very good ratings ( I dont know if they are..but they may even be 1 Ohm stable..I think the TMA 1000.1 is)so if everything is prorperly installed it should thump..
What box do you have? Is it a prefab, sealed, ported or what?. That sub had less than 6" mounting depth. My F-150 supercab doesnt have enough room under the rear seat to mount a sub even that shallow but they changed the rear seat configuration several times over the years. My rear seat will not fold up out of the way, it folds out which gives you a metal topped storage area which is full width but it blocks access to the area under the seats.
Again, if that combo is properly installed it should bump pretty good....The box needs to be close to right but these subs can use relativly small sealed enclosures.
Grdevs24zero on 11/30/2007 23:00:14
I find it hard to belive the problem would lie in the box design. Even if it was seriously out of whack the sub would still pump out enough bass to keep up with, and even surpass in some cases, the sound coming from the mids and highs. The opposite seems to be occurring. The amp's ratings look good though.
I think they gave you a DVC sub, but only wired up one voice coil. It may already be blown, as one coil was only meant to take half of the subs net power. This scenario seems to be all I can think of.
swez on 12/2/2007 04:16:32
This amp seems very capable of delivering solid bass power to a well configured system. However, there's no substitute for good install practices.
In this case, if a shop installed the system and you paid a nice buck for a job that does not past muster, I would suggest going back to the shop, talk to the owner and ask them to double check all the details of the install. It could be as simple as a few minor adjustments or more complex like a bad amp, sub failure or faulty wiring.
The right sub for this amp would be a 4+4 DVC, wired for a 2 ohm load. That would be at minimum, the 10W3v2 -D4 sub. (300 RMS) A better sub for this amp would be the 10W6v2 -D4. This sub handles 400 watts continous power and is also able 2 ohms when both coils are wired in parallel.
Just curious here, what HU are you using to power this sub amp? The other thing to look at is the amp gain setting value. If that is way off, the sub will be very weak. A simple voltage test will tell how much power the amp is providing to the sub. (Details later if you need them)
Swez
Tbone on 12/2/2007 07:36:37
My box does fit under the seat and it is not ported ,fully sealed, I pulled the sub out this morning it is a 10W3v3-4 my head unit is a SONY 7" dual din. I noticed yesterday when i turn my EQ off the head unit the sub tries to jump out the box but its hard to turn the level down enough for a good sound. Plus I would like to EQ I can`t get good MIds or Highs like this. The bass is real boomy not a good quailty sound I listen to rock music and I wanna hear that KIck drum thump not a constent vibration. The amp doesnt show a gain control just a bass boost. Thanks for all your responses and help!
swez on 12/2/2007 09:21:39
Ahhh, that's part of the problem... this sub is a 4 ohm SVC and is getting about 250 watts from your amp. You need the 10W3v3-2 for this amp to get the most from it. That's an easy fix if the shop has the 2 ohm version on hand. (Demand it)
The muddiness/boomy is partly the bass boost and maybe the wrong LPF (Low Pass Filter called X-Over on this amp) setting. The X-Over dial should be set at 80-100 Hz. This will bring more punch and kick to the sub if the enclosure is well matched to the sub.
The Bass Boost should be used sparingly if at all. (+3 dB is plenty in most cases. Much higher than +6 is going to make most subs sound very sloppy and boomy.
This amp has a gain control. It's marked "LEVEL" on the amp side with Bass Boost and Low Pass Filter, (X-over) adjustments. It has a range that says Min and Max. For now, I would split the difference and set this to midpoint and see how things sound.
Who did this install anyway? It seems like a few minor adjustments should clear up your bass and a total "NO-BRAINER" for even a rookie tech would know this.
If you, (Or a well-meaning buddy) did this install, just plead ignorance, lack of experience and chalk it up as being a newbie. We all started there at one time or another. It's good that you came here before something smokes out on you.
Finally, this is a sealed box and these are the easiest to make and use. The main idea is having the optimal size enclosure for the sub. In this case, the 10v3 is spec'd at 0.65 cf internally. We can be off +/- 10% and still be OK. However, if the sub enclosure is too large or too small, sub performance will suffer in bass quality and power handling ability.
Can you measure the outer dimensions of this box and run them back to us? If this is a wedge type box, we'll need to know the following outer dimensions:
Width is: xx.o inches wide
Depth: Front to Back in inches
Height: If this is a wedge, you have a shallow H1 and deeper H2 set of numbers (We need both)
Also, knowing the wood thickness used in this enclosure would be most helpful. (5/8" thickness is acceptable, 3/4" is also typical)
Finally, having adequate clearance between the sub cone and seat or floor is very important. If the rear seat can be stowed up and the sub faces up, that's a good scenario.
If the sub is firing into the carpeted floor or into the bottom of the rear seat, adequate airspace between cone and adjacent surfaces are very important. If that's not done well, it's going to sound like "Hammer Goose Poop".
Comments?
Swez
Tbone on 12/2/2007 13:27:31
enclosure size. 25 1/4 w x 11 7/8 d x 3/4 thick x 6 3/4 h1 5 3/4 h2 oh and by the way it was professionally installed by STREET CREATIONS of Shreveport, La I paid them over 1,700 dollars for the 4 5x7s and sub. amp installed. Doesnt included the head unit I have over 2,500 dollars in this system that sounds like I installed a wal-mart system! Again thanks for your help. By the way they are officially called **** CREATIONS!
swez on 12/2/2007 14:48:15
The box is right on target for that sub. I came up with 0.68 cf internally and when we subtract sub displacement, tight on the money.
I think I get the picture of how you might feel at the moment, but that rate is not outside the ball park for the quality of gear you bought. However, the results noted on the sub performance are not what they could be.
BTW, "Professionally Installed" means we paid someone a good buck to do the work for us. "Expertly Installed" is a whole nother game level. We aim for that level here with our readers.
Did a F-150 Super Crew with a guy and his buddy over a long weekend. We used JL amps, (300/1 and a 500/1) for his ProBox 10" sub. The rear speakers were Infinity 6x8 component type coaxials in the rear pillars and CDT 5.25's up front.
He had a Nakamichi HU and a Bahn AEQ6 pre-installed before he got to my place. We worked well together as a team. They did the sound dampening on doors and rear wall while I did the wiring, installed both amps behind the rear seats on the back wall and then dialed everything in. We did the speakers as a team too.
It turned out sweet and very much stealthy too. (Where are the amps again?) Very well hidden and out of prying eyes view. There was a wiring glitch at the HU/EQ, but was able to work around the matter after a few close looks and patch cable was fabricated.
Admittedly, we took our time as this was a very labor intensive install and very expensive gear. When all was said and done and they pulled out to head back home to Indiana, (from the western burbs of Detroit) the owner of the truck had a pretty wide grin the whole drive home as they jammed away w/ the new install. (So he told me later)
It was my first high end install at this level of product quality and system complexity. We planned the system for weeks before he came up for the work. We had a blast doing it and the experience was a very good step into high end Mobile Audio. My labor fee was very modest compared to the work that was done. However, the real payoff was the results and the sheer joy on that man's face when we finished tweaking everything in.
I hope we can get you to that point here too. Unfortunately, you live a long way off and dealing w/ Street Creations to fix the sub problems mentioned means going back to the owner, the Head Tech and probably twisting the saleman's arm to advocate on your behalf.
In the future, before you make the final payment for any job, go over everything with the installer and if there are problems to be addressed, they don't get the full payment until the work is done to your complete satisfaction.
What say you?
Swez
PS I'm a Christian man and try to find fellow Christian's to team up with on almost everything. (Friends, work, hobbies and more) We don't claim to be perfect at all. But a solid Christian knows the value of putting others first, going the extra mile at work and even taking the financial hit to make things right. It's good to have a few mature Christian's in our inner circle. (When we are in deep weeds, we know there are others to pull us out)
There are several solid Christian's on this form as Golds and non-golds too. If you read their posts and such, it's not hard to figure out who they are. They serve others with excellence, diligence and a helpful demeanor. We put the readers first and only ask for a modest donation to keep this site going each month. We don't bash others or their product choices here either. That's what makes this site such a pleasure to serve on and watch other glow with glee when the job is completed and done with excellent results.
Replies (7)
jamesp on 11/30/2007 11:15:20
Find out what impedence the dual voice coils are on your sub. If they sold you a dual 4 Ohm voice coil model that can be wired for a 2 Ohm load. It looks like your amp has received very good ratings ( I dont know if they are..but they may even be 1 Ohm stable..I think the TMA 1000.1 is)so if everything is prorperly installed it should thump..
What box do you have? Is it a prefab, sealed, ported or what?. That sub had less than 6" mounting depth. My F-150 supercab doesnt have enough room under the rear seat to mount a sub even that shallow but they changed the rear seat configuration several times over the years. My rear seat will not fold up out of the way, it folds out which gives you a metal topped storage area which is full width but it blocks access to the area under the seats.
Again, if that combo is properly installed it should bump pretty good....The box needs to be close to right but these subs can use relativly small sealed enclosures.
Grdevs24zero on 11/30/2007 23:00:14
I find it hard to belive the problem would lie in the box design. Even if it was seriously out of whack the sub would still pump out enough bass to keep up with, and even surpass in some cases, the sound coming from the mids and highs. The opposite seems to be occurring. The amp's ratings look good though.
I think they gave you a DVC sub, but only wired up one voice coil. It may already be blown, as one coil was only meant to take half of the subs net power. This scenario seems to be all I can think of.
swez on 12/2/2007 04:16:32
This amp seems very capable of delivering solid bass power to a well configured system. However, there's no substitute for good install practices.
In this case, if a shop installed the system and you paid a nice buck for a job that does not past muster, I would suggest going back to the shop, talk to the owner and ask them to double check all the details of the install. It could be as simple as a few minor adjustments or more complex like a bad amp, sub failure or faulty wiring.
The right sub for this amp would be a 4+4 DVC, wired for a 2 ohm load. That would be at minimum, the 10W3v2 -D4 sub. (300 RMS) A better sub for this amp would be the 10W6v2 -D4. This sub handles 400 watts continous power and is also able 2 ohms when both coils are wired in parallel.
Just curious here, what HU are you using to power this sub amp? The other thing to look at is the amp gain setting value. If that is way off, the sub will be very weak. A simple voltage test will tell how much power the amp is providing to the sub. (Details later if you need them)
Swez
Tbone on 12/2/2007 07:36:37
My box does fit under the seat and it is not ported ,fully sealed, I pulled the sub out this morning it is a 10W3v3-4 my head unit is a SONY 7" dual din. I noticed yesterday when i turn my EQ off the head unit the sub tries to jump out the box but its hard to turn the level down enough for a good sound. Plus I would like to EQ I can`t get good MIds or Highs like this. The bass is real boomy not a good quailty sound I listen to rock music and I wanna hear that KIck drum thump not a constent vibration. The amp doesnt show a gain control just a bass boost. Thanks for all your responses and help!
swez on 12/2/2007 09:21:39
Ahhh, that's part of the problem... this sub is a 4 ohm SVC and is getting about 250 watts from your amp. You need the 10W3v3-2 for this amp to get the most from it. That's an easy fix if the shop has the 2 ohm version on hand. (Demand it)
The muddiness/boomy is partly the bass boost and maybe the wrong LPF (Low Pass Filter called X-Over on this amp) setting. The X-Over dial should be set at 80-100 Hz. This will bring more punch and kick to the sub if the enclosure is well matched to the sub.
The Bass Boost should be used sparingly if at all. (+3 dB is plenty in most cases. Much higher than +6 is going to make most subs sound very sloppy and boomy.
This amp has a gain control. It's marked "LEVEL" on the amp side with Bass Boost and Low Pass Filter, (X-over) adjustments. It has a range that says Min and Max. For now, I would split the difference and set this to midpoint and see how things sound.
Who did this install anyway? It seems like a few minor adjustments should clear up your bass and a total "NO-BRAINER" for even a rookie tech would know this.
If you, (Or a well-meaning buddy) did this install, just plead ignorance, lack of experience and chalk it up as being a newbie. We all started there at one time or another. It's good that you came here before something smokes out on you.
Finally, this is a sealed box and these are the easiest to make and use. The main idea is having the optimal size enclosure for the sub. In this case, the 10v3 is spec'd at 0.65 cf internally. We can be off +/- 10% and still be OK. However, if the sub enclosure is too large or too small, sub performance will suffer in bass quality and power handling ability.
Can you measure the outer dimensions of this box and run them back to us? If this is a wedge type box, we'll need to know the following outer dimensions:
Width is: xx.o inches wide
Depth: Front to Back in inches
Height: If this is a wedge, you have a shallow H1 and deeper H2 set of numbers (We need both)
Also, knowing the wood thickness used in this enclosure would be most helpful. (5/8" thickness is acceptable, 3/4" is also typical)
Finally, having adequate clearance between the sub cone and seat or floor is very important. If the rear seat can be stowed up and the sub faces up, that's a good scenario.
If the sub is firing into the carpeted floor or into the bottom of the rear seat, adequate airspace between cone and adjacent surfaces are very important. If that's not done well, it's going to sound like "Hammer Goose Poop".
Comments?
Swez
Tbone on 12/2/2007 13:27:31
enclosure size. 25 1/4 w x 11 7/8 d x 3/4 thick x 6 3/4 h1 5 3/4 h2 oh and by the way it was professionally installed by STREET CREATIONS of Shreveport, La I paid them over 1,700 dollars for the 4 5x7s and sub. amp installed. Doesnt included the head unit I have over 2,500 dollars in this system that sounds like I installed a wal-mart system! Again thanks for your help. By the way they are officially called **** CREATIONS!
swez on 12/2/2007 14:48:15
The box is right on target for that sub. I came up with 0.68 cf internally and when we subtract sub displacement, tight on the money.
I think I get the picture of how you might feel at the moment, but that rate is not outside the ball park for the quality of gear you bought. However, the results noted on the sub performance are not what they could be.
BTW, "Professionally Installed" means we paid someone a good buck to do the work for us. "Expertly Installed" is a whole nother game level. We aim for that level here with our readers.
Did a F-150 Super Crew with a guy and his buddy over a long weekend. We used JL amps, (300/1 and a 500/1) for his ProBox 10" sub. The rear speakers were Infinity 6x8 component type coaxials in the rear pillars and CDT 5.25's up front.
He had a Nakamichi HU and a Bahn AEQ6 pre-installed before he got to my place. We worked well together as a team. They did the sound dampening on doors and rear wall while I did the wiring, installed both amps behind the rear seats on the back wall and then dialed everything in. We did the speakers as a team too.
It turned out sweet and very much stealthy too. (Where are the amps again?) Very well hidden and out of prying eyes view. There was a wiring glitch at the HU/EQ, but was able to work around the matter after a few close looks and patch cable was fabricated.
Admittedly, we took our time as this was a very labor intensive install and very expensive gear. When all was said and done and they pulled out to head back home to Indiana, (from the western burbs of Detroit) the owner of the truck had a pretty wide grin the whole drive home as they jammed away w/ the new install. (So he told me later)
It was my first high end install at this level of product quality and system complexity. We planned the system for weeks before he came up for the work. We had a blast doing it and the experience was a very good step into high end Mobile Audio. My labor fee was very modest compared to the work that was done. However, the real payoff was the results and the sheer joy on that man's face when we finished tweaking everything in.
I hope we can get you to that point here too. Unfortunately, you live a long way off and dealing w/ Street Creations to fix the sub problems mentioned means going back to the owner, the Head Tech and probably twisting the saleman's arm to advocate on your behalf.
In the future, before you make the final payment for any job, go over everything with the installer and if there are problems to be addressed, they don't get the full payment until the work is done to your complete satisfaction.
What say you?
Swez
PS I'm a Christian man and try to find fellow Christian's to team up with on almost everything. (Friends, work, hobbies and more) We don't claim to be perfect at all. But a solid Christian knows the value of putting others first, going the extra mile at work and even taking the financial hit to make things right. It's good to have a few mature Christian's in our inner circle. (When we are in deep weeds, we know there are others to pull us out)
There are several solid Christian's on this form as Golds and non-golds too. If you read their posts and such, it's not hard to figure out who they are. They serve others with excellence, diligence and a helpful demeanor. We put the readers first and only ask for a modest donation to keep this site going each month. We don't bash others or their product choices here either. That's what makes this site such a pleasure to serve on and watch other glow with glee when the job is completed and done with excellent results.
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