Will an orion h2 12 be good for daily driven?
Replies (50)
Ash on 11/29/2007 21:43:11
Those series subs are very power demanding with a 2000 watt continuous handling. There are two models with 4+4 or 2+2 dual voice coils. That's a lot of power for stock electricals and daily drivers. That is what would be considered a strictly competition product.
What are your goals in a setup?
kcdakrt on 12/1/2007 00:26:34
loud but good quality bass
Ash on 12/1/2007 02:04:01
A SQL setup is what that sounds like your looking for. Give the full details on what you are currently running then maybe we can match up something for you that's good but not overbearing on the car's electricals.
swez on 12/1/2007 04:16:47
Consider a 500 watt sub here. One strong sub or a pair coupled w/ a high efficiency Class D amp would be a very good SQL performer, depending on how much bass is desired and how much electrical power is available to drive the sub part of your system.
Keep in mind, this is a small format Pickup truck. The cabin is small and it won't take a huge sub/amp system to get adequate sub SPL. Space may be a factor as well, for the enclosure needs. (Not to mention power consumption that can strain a stock electrical system)
Do you know the engine package and ALTERNATOR specs for this truck?
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/1/2007 10:34:09
Well... I've had an h2 sittin around for about two years because I never got into installing it. Right now I'm running the factory infinity setup. My truck has a 5.9L engine with an 130 amp alternator. I have a spare battery that can be used if needed.
kcdakrt on 12/1/2007 11:16:44
Are the kicker cvt's any good? I could get two 12's for $160 and I'm pretty sure that a matching amp wouldn't cost too much.
swez on 12/1/2007 13:28:59
Hum, I see your point and why not use the sub you have on hand?
Yes, this is an SPL Comp sub that loves lots of power. However, a good result may still be doable with a smaller amp and a well designed enclosure.
1. Look at the specs for this sub would be #1 on the list
2. How much amping power will be needed to give the desired results?
3. Match this sub, an amp and enclosure to this truck for best possible results
This truck has a pretty solid electrical package and better than average stock audio components. (Infinity audio package) But this sub was designed for SPL Competition. The 2+2 DVC voice coil makes for an interesting mix on any given amp you choose. However, a good amp that can deliver a solid 500-1000 watts RMS, (1 or 4 ohms) would be a good choice.
The venerable JL Slash series amps, (500/1 or 1000/1) would be solid choices for a 4 ohm sub configuration. (2+2 ohm VC's in series) For SQL apps, a sealed box of 1.0 cf would be a solid, compact and doable enclosure for SQL apps. Yes, this sub can take more power, but at added expense to your truck electricals. (Not needed unless you demand high SQL performance)
Here are the specs on that sub:
http://www.mainstreet-audio.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=27308&Category_Code=ORSU
Hum, I would probably opt for a compact sealed box of 1.0 cf for this sub. The wiring configuation would be 4 ohms. (Both coils in series) The JL 500/1 is a solid amp for this sub and vehicle. (50 A draw at full power)
If you want a few more dB of low bass and have the space, a vented box, (1.25 cf + vent) and the JL 1000/1 is plenty good. (100 A draw at full power) This amp will require electrical upgrades that are very expensive for minimal benefits. I would not go there, unless your wallet is fat.
Comments?
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/2/2007 01:32:14
Well I have decided not to use the H2 because a friend wants it for a good price. So now what?
swez on 12/2/2007 03:37:19
That's a good plan, sell that sub and start from a clean sheet of paper.
OK, let's look at setting some guideline and reasonable goals based on good planning, a reasonable budget and knowing more about the space available for a subwoofer in this truck.
1. How much space is available for a sub box in this truck? (Max Height, Width & Depth numbers are needed)
2. Amping power for the system is another factor to consider. Here, strong bass is very doable with a 400-500 watts RMS amp.
3. Choosing a sub and box configuration that fits also needs to be considered. Power handling of the sub would match the amp selected.
4. A reasonable budget for the system would be good to figure out right now. Knowing how much is in the budget, helps to pick the gear to be used later. (Have a number/range in mind?)
Once we know these basic parameters, then we can map out a plan for your install and assure getting some nice thump in this install. No need to worry as there is a lot of talent available on this forum to help out.
Just be patient, follow the recommendations as they come and ask plenty of questions as needed. Many of the Golds here are seasoned veterans in this field and collectively, we've helped hundreds of guys to get some very good results.
OK, that's the plan... just answer the questions above and then we'll proceed and develop a plan of attack.
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/3/2007 17:41:27
Max height is about 14",width-20", and depth is about 10". I'm wanting to spend about 400$
Ash on 12/3/2007 19:10:43
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_4281_Alpine+SWR-1242D+-TYPE+R-.html
kcdakrt on 12/4/2007 23:04:50
How do the type r's hold up?
swez on 12/5/2007 05:22:54
Very well when adequately powered, in a well designed enclosure and are not abused by the user.
This is a very solid SQL sub. In a compact, sealed enclosure, (0.85 cf) this sub does a great job of delivering strong bass and very good power handling as well. The prices are good on last years models and this sub has been in the game a long time. It's passed the time test year after year and getting better as they refine this well proven design.
As for pricing, have seen this sub sell for under $125.00 USD when supplies are high and demand is low. The link Ash showed us is a very good deal. Just not the S/H fees are a factor too. Some e-tailers will give a low-ball unit price, but whack ya with inflated S/H fees.
Swez
PS These guys ship from CA. I ran a S/H quote to MI and the cheapest fee is $32.00. (Ins may be extra?) Now, that $120 sub would cost $152.00. Not a bad deal... but this is a heavy item to ship long distances.
kcdakrt on 12/5/2007 16:22:39
Thanks. If I got two of these what would be a good amp that could hook up to the factory setup?
swez on 12/5/2007 19:03:23
Wow... two Type R's and the right amp to power them, will smoke your factory system with lots of heavy bass performance. Not only that, but the amp will really challenge most stock electrical systems too . (major/expensive electrical upgrades needed for dual SWR subs)
I would suggest a single Type R and a solid 500 watt RMS, Class D amp. That will be a lot of bass in such a small cabin space. If you really like Alpine as most of us do, the Alpine MRP-M650 would be plenty of amping power for now and later. This amp can easily drive the SWR-1242 D to full potential and have a little reserve too.
That would be a very good amp/sub pairing.
Comments?
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/5/2007 21:41:39
You def know more than me. I guess I was just use to seeing 2+ subs but one sounds good. Money saved is money made
SQLThump on 12/6/2007 03:02:06
If you really wanted to run two Alpine subs, on a resonable power budget, the Alpine Type E may fit the bill. It's power handling is half the Type R's, and IMO the swettest sounding entry level sub I have ever heard. Having trouble turning down a sweet deal from a freind on a pair of them right now..............
swez on 12/6/2007 05:16:37
Keep it simple... one strong sub here and paired with a good amp, it will do a very nice job in both sound levels and accuracy.
If one wants a real street thumper, then larger gear, more expenses and higher power ratings are the norm. If guys want to be heard from a block away, they go that route and annoy the heck out of most peeps that are not into that at all.
Personally, showing off to a buddy is fine if we enjoy what we've made and want go out in the boonies for a demo. But street thumpers also lose their gear to theft more often as well.
Be aware that lurkers will follow the Mad Thumpers around and when the time is right.... their cars get stripped. To limit this chance of lose, don't thump it hard near home and work or school. (Be responsible with this serious noise making toy)
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/6/2007 13:17:37
Would sealed or ported be needed here? I would run 4ga power wire right?
swez on 12/7/2007 05:00:46
It depends on the bass you want. Sealed units are tight, take quick beats well and remain crisp and accurate. They are also compact and handle additional clean power "transients", (Strong peak bass or kick drum spikes) very well.
Ported boxes are larger, a little less accurate but give better deep lows and slightly more low end bump at the expense of power handling and the tight response we get in sealed designs. Ported subs also need a Subsonic filter. The Alpine amp mentioned has this feature and a good choice for this install, be it sealed or ported.
Swez
Yes, #4 gage wire is best for this amp and if you ever add another amp later, (Mids/Highs) #4 wire will leave room to do that if needed.
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/9/2007 00:40:39
Well... today I built a sealed box with an internal volume of .9 cu ft.
swez on 12/9/2007 04:28:48
That should do it for the Alpine 12 we have been discussing here. This sub will need a few days to break in when new, but after the break in period, it will give nice deep lows and some solid punch from the kick drum.
You may wish to add about 1lb of polyfill stuffing to help dampen the rear bass waves in this enclosure: Like this...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-317
No need to pay $10.00 for this either. Can get the same thing for much less at WalMart or most fabric stores.
Enjoy the bass and use it wisely,
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/9/2007 12:49:59
Thanx for all the help :)
swez on 12/9/2007 13:11:18
Indeed and enjoy your new rig!
Swez
PS Mind tossing a few coins in the site donation fund... at this time of year, donations are far and few between. How much is up to you.
jamesp on 12/9/2007 15:51:14
I have the Alpine type R 12" w/ 4+4 voice coils wired for 2 Ohms..I am powering it with a Rockford Fosgate 600.1 bd. I bought a prefab 1 cu/ft shimmed to maybe .85 cu/ft and w/ polyfill stuffing all around.
Swez recommended this combo a while back and it sounds great. I have compared it to 2 type E's in a ported box and there was really no comparison. I dont know if the E's were in a properly sized enclosure but they were supposed to be. The pair of E's sounded like they always hit the same note, not at all tight like my sealed R which can keep up on fast, hard bass riffs as well as hit the Boom notes when called on to do so. I have been more than happy with this sub.
kcdakrt on 12/11/2007 00:12:05
Could I port this box in the future if needed or would it be too small?
SQLThump on 12/11/2007 03:18:29
Actually James, the problem with the Type-E's is that they are for use in sealed and bandpass enclosures only. I had an older model Type E, and put it in a ported box for a little while, and it was one of the worst sounding subs I have ever heard. I have heard several in sealed boxes, and am impressed every time with thier great performance for the power handling and cost. I have yet to hear them in a bandpass enclosure.
swez on 12/11/2007 04:03:34
This sub works best in compact sealed enclosures.
Yes, porting is possible, but a larger box is needed. (not an off the shelf item either) The low bass will be a tab louder, but may not be as clean and crisp as sealed.
That's a lot of extra work for a few dB more low bass that may actually sound worse then sealed. As a spare time project, you can try it though and report back your findings.
According to Crutchfield: "the ideal size recommended by Alpine is 1.7 cu/ft, so this is the enclosure recommended by Crutchfield. A slot port with the following dimensions should be used with the 1.7 cu/ft enclosure: W=12", H=1.25", L=21". If you cannot use a slot port in your enclosure, you will need a port tube with the following dimensions: Diameter=3", L=9.9".
Is it worth all the extra work and expense?
Swez
Swez
jamesp on 12/11/2007 08:02:36
Mcbusta-Thump, Yea, I thought that something was bad wrong with those E's. The owner seemed quite proud of them so I didnt mention it to him.
SQLThump on 12/11/2007 13:32:44
Hmmmm, didn't even know there was any kind of option for porting the Type E. That does sound like waay too much extra work to do that. That is one huge slotted port requirement as well.
Jamse, your a nice guy. I have never cared who the owner was or how proud they are of their gear, if something is not up to spec....they get told about it. Even if the proud owner is myself.
kcdakrt on 12/11/2007 15:48:55
I've got extra wood so I might try it just too see what it sounds like.
swez on 12/11/2007 19:36:53
Sure, why not if you have the time and materials. Then you can swap the sub in and out of either box and determine what sounds best aste in for your tastes.
Swez
jamesp on 12/12/2007 12:50:32
McBusta-Thump,
you're not tellin me that you would dis a brutha for having a set of board mounted drivers taped to his dash are youGRIN
Thse E's I was refering to eariler may well have been in a bandpass box, if so, it did not work out well IMO.
kcdakrt on 12/13/2007 23:06:58
Well today I was givin the chance to purchase a soundsplinter rl-s 12 really cheap for about $120. So alpine or soundsplinter? Oh and by the way, I heard a type r today it sounded great.
swez on 12/14/2007 03:28:21
From experience, the Alpine Type R series is one of the most versatile and solid subs on the market for under $200.
Yes, there are better subs out there for certain types of installs, but for everyday use and reliability, this is one tough sub to beat for the price.
Swez
SQLThump on 12/14/2007 03:54:23
James, I wouldn't diss a brotha for runnin the ghetto tweets if they sounded good!GRIN
I'd have to buy him a beer, and show him the light of 20W Alpine 5.25's, hooked up to a $20 JBL amp, that you can't turn up because of the low power handling! YEEEEEAH.
Last winter was a very looon boooorrrring winter, and I have a reputation to maintain of being not so much an audiophile, but more a board certified car audio nutjob. A lot of ghetto things happend last winter in the name of sound.
But......I am changing my ways....kind of. I'll still keep my reputation as being the most "hood-rich" (whatever the hell that REALLY means) foo' in the trailer park, but with much less ghetto results. Progress is being made.............
Which brings me to my next point: why you must step up and hold your boy a "car audio intervention" if you will,much like CK did for me, and come to him and be like
"Homeslice, yo bumps be fakin the funk"
"Fakin the funk?"
"Yeah, dats whattup son, You be needin one of dem Sealed boxes!"
"But......."
"NO BUT! Just do it, I'll help you out with it!"
"Alright then, lets get some duckets"
Or the proper English version of that. Whatever floats your boat. Ever since I first made a stereo work, I have felt the need to make better sound, acheive constant improvement, and get as many people with fakin the funk systems into better sounding stuff, including myself. GRIN
BTW....I will probably never live down the taped down tweeters, and get a great laugh every time they are brought up. I still use ont of the panels to hold up my hood. Ahhhhhh......... the sheer pleasures of driving a Bucket..............
KCD----
That Soundsplinter unit is a beast. With true 3 inch peak to peak excursion, 1200RMS power handling, a minimum enclosure of 2 cubic feet (with 6.0 reccomended for H/T for a flatter curve) this definitely does not quilify as a good daily driver sub. I will require box twice as large as the Alpine unit, more than twice the power, and will probably totally drown out any hopes of highs and mids if fully powered. Not to mention the single 4 ohm coil, which it says it says the only option for this sub, which will require an amp to make thaty power at four ohms, instead of a more efficeint one or two ohms which works great for most sub amps.
A link for this sub.
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=4
This website is selling the sub at $450, so you would be scoring a major price break here. If you still want this killer deal you must sit and ask yourself.....
Do I need this much bass?
Can I afford an amp to properly power this sub?
Will I be able to perform upgrades to the charging system if the amp I use to power this sub begins to bog down the charging system?
Do I have the interior space in my truck to run this sub, and still have a decent passenger compartment?
Is this much bass going to attract too much unwanted attention from police or performers of vehicle theft?
Analyze these questions, and ask the same about the Type R. Look at your answers of Sub Vs. Sub, and from there draw a reasonable conclusion.
BTW that is a sweet deal on a sub that can handle a lot of power, and even I would have a hard time turning down deal like that. But you have to think about your real needs.
jamesp on 12/14/2007 08:05:57
Mcbusta thump be spending the duckets and pimpin the Bucket.
You be goin sealed, fa real? Heard dat dog. Tight.
Word, Holmes.
SQLThump on 12/14/2007 16:37:59
Yeah, I am actually canning the usually BP designs I use and will be going sealed for my next system.
And am pimpin the bucket now that I got the duckets......**** it!
kcdakrt on 12/15/2007 20:08:56
oops... meant the rl-p
jamesp on 12/15/2007 21:01:46
swez on 12/16/2007 08:21:08
Duckets? Had to look that one up as ghetto-slang is not part of this old square's daily word list... LOL "Am a chillin' as I's shillin"
Duckets or Ducats: A gold coin that was used as a trade currency throughout Europe before World War I. Its weight is 3.4909 grams of .986 gold, which is 0.1107 troy ounce real gold. (Odd this was not a .999 gold coin)
Too funny here guys... The King's English is hard enough, let alone Rappers' slang and a bag-o-chip ta go... whatever?
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/25/2007 14:24:09
After the alpine r, what would be your next choice?
swez on 12/25/2007 15:44:17
There are so many great subs out there, (And a lot of cheap junk too) it depends on your budget, enclosure size and power you want to throw at a given sub. It also depends on whether you want pure SPL, SQ of SQL performance. So far, we talked about SQL subs. (Accurate and push out solid bass)
Infinity, JBL, JL, Polk, Rockford & Resonance Engineering all come to mind as above average SQL subs.
If you want more low end and power to throw at a sub, then Kicker would be a good choice. (Comp VR's or Solobarics) These require large ported boxes and love lots of power. Expect to spend more for them though as they really need a lot of RMS power to get the most from them.
Frankly, depending on power, enclosure and preferred type of music, the Alpine Type R is one of the most affordable, reliable and above average over-all performer.
Swez
PS Am sure others will have other suggestions based on what they have used or played with too. Let's see what this list looks like when others fill in the list.
kcdakrt on 12/25/2007 16:48:12
Well a friend of mine wants the same setup, but he doesn't want the alpine amp. What amp could he use to push a type r
swez on 12/25/2007 17:48:33
If he has the cash, the JL 500/1 would be an excellent choice. If not, consider these:
JBL Grand Touring Series GTO601.1 II
Kenwood KAC-8103D
Kenwood Excelon KAC-X10D
MTX X Thunder 600XD
Infinity Reference 1600a
Yes, there are more to consider. But these are the newer models from Crutch. Older models are also useful, but harder to find. The key is 500-600 Wrms @ 2 ohms with that sub.
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/25/2007 18:39:18
He was looking at this SoundStorm 1F850. I've never heard of this company but I think he's lookin at it because of the price.
swez on 12/25/2007 20:49:14
Am not a big fan of this immitation knock off of the real deal... Sound Stream. For the budget, I think his best option would be the Kenwood KAC-8103D.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17789
If he really wants a first rate amp to power his Alpine, the Rockford Fosgate P600.1bd would be an even better choice:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=18338
Yes, tell him to save his pennies and buy well the first time out. The Sound Storm is just not a quality piece of gear. It's cheap all right... but reliabilty and solid performance are worth a few more bucks. If you buy a great sub, use a quality amp to get the best from it.
Swez
jamesp on 12/26/2007 08:28:21
I vote for the Rockford Fosgate P600.1 bd and a 12" type R in a 1ft³ box. You can find the amp for under 200 dollars if you look and mine barley gets warm running the Alpine sub and performs flawlessly. Buy right the first time and there will be no regrets. This is a well matched combo with headroom to spare.
kcdakrt on 01/3/2008 22:54:28
Off topic, but what range can i expect the spl to be in?
swez on 01/4/2008 04:08:02
Live concert levels are typically capped at 120dB. A typical nightclub reading at the apex, (Sound focal point) 110 - 115 dB is plenty loud and can leave ones ears ringing after a few hours at this SPL level.
In a vehicle, 120 dB is actually a very solid number and depending on several variables, you might well see low 130's dB of bass with the package we have laid out with you so far. Sedans with sealed trunk mounted subs are a few dB lower and in the mid 120's SPL range at this power level.
FYI: 120 dB is considered hazzardous to long-term hearing losses w/o hearing protection and long exposure times. After doing many live concerts and nightclub systems, the mids and highs above 110dB can be very detrimental to long-term hearing. We often cap these at 105-108 dB at the apex for that very reason. (Why do you think most long- term DJ's wear head sets?)
Don't take this info lightly my friend... hearing loss is a very real concern. Any Audiologist will tell you the same thing. Exposure to high SPL levels over extended periods of time, will damage hearing permanently and is irreversible.
Are we clear on this one?
Swez
Replies (50)
Ash on 11/29/2007 21:43:11
Those series subs are very power demanding with a 2000 watt continuous handling. There are two models with 4+4 or 2+2 dual voice coils. That's a lot of power for stock electricals and daily drivers. That is what would be considered a strictly competition product.
What are your goals in a setup?
kcdakrt on 12/1/2007 00:26:34
loud but good quality bass
Ash on 12/1/2007 02:04:01
A SQL setup is what that sounds like your looking for. Give the full details on what you are currently running then maybe we can match up something for you that's good but not overbearing on the car's electricals.
swez on 12/1/2007 04:16:47
Consider a 500 watt sub here. One strong sub or a pair coupled w/ a high efficiency Class D amp would be a very good SQL performer, depending on how much bass is desired and how much electrical power is available to drive the sub part of your system.
Keep in mind, this is a small format Pickup truck. The cabin is small and it won't take a huge sub/amp system to get adequate sub SPL. Space may be a factor as well, for the enclosure needs. (Not to mention power consumption that can strain a stock electrical system)
Do you know the engine package and ALTERNATOR specs for this truck?
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/1/2007 10:34:09
Well... I've had an h2 sittin around for about two years because I never got into installing it. Right now I'm running the factory infinity setup. My truck has a 5.9L engine with an 130 amp alternator. I have a spare battery that can be used if needed.
kcdakrt on 12/1/2007 11:16:44
Are the kicker cvt's any good? I could get two 12's for $160 and I'm pretty sure that a matching amp wouldn't cost too much.
swez on 12/1/2007 13:28:59
Hum, I see your point and why not use the sub you have on hand?
Yes, this is an SPL Comp sub that loves lots of power. However, a good result may still be doable with a smaller amp and a well designed enclosure.
1. Look at the specs for this sub would be #1 on the list
2. How much amping power will be needed to give the desired results?
3. Match this sub, an amp and enclosure to this truck for best possible results
This truck has a pretty solid electrical package and better than average stock audio components. (Infinity audio package) But this sub was designed for SPL Competition. The 2+2 DVC voice coil makes for an interesting mix on any given amp you choose. However, a good amp that can deliver a solid 500-1000 watts RMS, (1 or 4 ohms) would be a good choice.
The venerable JL Slash series amps, (500/1 or 1000/1) would be solid choices for a 4 ohm sub configuration. (2+2 ohm VC's in series) For SQL apps, a sealed box of 1.0 cf would be a solid, compact and doable enclosure for SQL apps. Yes, this sub can take more power, but at added expense to your truck electricals. (Not needed unless you demand high SQL performance)
Here are the specs on that sub:
http://www.mainstreet-audio.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=27308&Category_Code=ORSU
Hum, I would probably opt for a compact sealed box of 1.0 cf for this sub. The wiring configuation would be 4 ohms. (Both coils in series) The JL 500/1 is a solid amp for this sub and vehicle. (50 A draw at full power)
If you want a few more dB of low bass and have the space, a vented box, (1.25 cf + vent) and the JL 1000/1 is plenty good. (100 A draw at full power) This amp will require electrical upgrades that are very expensive for minimal benefits. I would not go there, unless your wallet is fat.
Comments?
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/2/2007 01:32:14
Well I have decided not to use the H2 because a friend wants it for a good price. So now what?
swez on 12/2/2007 03:37:19
That's a good plan, sell that sub and start from a clean sheet of paper.
OK, let's look at setting some guideline and reasonable goals based on good planning, a reasonable budget and knowing more about the space available for a subwoofer in this truck.
1. How much space is available for a sub box in this truck? (Max Height, Width & Depth numbers are needed)
2. Amping power for the system is another factor to consider. Here, strong bass is very doable with a 400-500 watts RMS amp.
3. Choosing a sub and box configuration that fits also needs to be considered. Power handling of the sub would match the amp selected.
4. A reasonable budget for the system would be good to figure out right now. Knowing how much is in the budget, helps to pick the gear to be used later. (Have a number/range in mind?)
Once we know these basic parameters, then we can map out a plan for your install and assure getting some nice thump in this install. No need to worry as there is a lot of talent available on this forum to help out.
Just be patient, follow the recommendations as they come and ask plenty of questions as needed. Many of the Golds here are seasoned veterans in this field and collectively, we've helped hundreds of guys to get some very good results.
OK, that's the plan... just answer the questions above and then we'll proceed and develop a plan of attack.
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/3/2007 17:41:27
Max height is about 14",width-20", and depth is about 10". I'm wanting to spend about 400$
Ash on 12/3/2007 19:10:43
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_4281_Alpine+SWR-1242D+-TYPE+R-.html
kcdakrt on 12/4/2007 23:04:50
How do the type r's hold up?
swez on 12/5/2007 05:22:54
Very well when adequately powered, in a well designed enclosure and are not abused by the user.
This is a very solid SQL sub. In a compact, sealed enclosure, (0.85 cf) this sub does a great job of delivering strong bass and very good power handling as well. The prices are good on last years models and this sub has been in the game a long time. It's passed the time test year after year and getting better as they refine this well proven design.
As for pricing, have seen this sub sell for under $125.00 USD when supplies are high and demand is low. The link Ash showed us is a very good deal. Just not the S/H fees are a factor too. Some e-tailers will give a low-ball unit price, but whack ya with inflated S/H fees.
Swez
PS These guys ship from CA. I ran a S/H quote to MI and the cheapest fee is $32.00. (Ins may be extra?) Now, that $120 sub would cost $152.00. Not a bad deal... but this is a heavy item to ship long distances.
kcdakrt on 12/5/2007 16:22:39
Thanks. If I got two of these what would be a good amp that could hook up to the factory setup?
swez on 12/5/2007 19:03:23
Wow... two Type R's and the right amp to power them, will smoke your factory system with lots of heavy bass performance. Not only that, but the amp will really challenge most stock electrical systems too . (major/expensive electrical upgrades needed for dual SWR subs)
I would suggest a single Type R and a solid 500 watt RMS, Class D amp. That will be a lot of bass in such a small cabin space. If you really like Alpine as most of us do, the Alpine MRP-M650 would be plenty of amping power for now and later. This amp can easily drive the SWR-1242 D to full potential and have a little reserve too.
That would be a very good amp/sub pairing.
Comments?
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/5/2007 21:41:39
You def know more than me. I guess I was just use to seeing 2+ subs but one sounds good. Money saved is money made
SQLThump on 12/6/2007 03:02:06
If you really wanted to run two Alpine subs, on a resonable power budget, the Alpine Type E may fit the bill. It's power handling is half the Type R's, and IMO the swettest sounding entry level sub I have ever heard. Having trouble turning down a sweet deal from a freind on a pair of them right now..............
swez on 12/6/2007 05:16:37
Keep it simple... one strong sub here and paired with a good amp, it will do a very nice job in both sound levels and accuracy.
If one wants a real street thumper, then larger gear, more expenses and higher power ratings are the norm. If guys want to be heard from a block away, they go that route and annoy the heck out of most peeps that are not into that at all.
Personally, showing off to a buddy is fine if we enjoy what we've made and want go out in the boonies for a demo. But street thumpers also lose their gear to theft more often as well.
Be aware that lurkers will follow the Mad Thumpers around and when the time is right.... their cars get stripped. To limit this chance of lose, don't thump it hard near home and work or school. (Be responsible with this serious noise making toy)
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/6/2007 13:17:37
Would sealed or ported be needed here? I would run 4ga power wire right?
swez on 12/7/2007 05:00:46
It depends on the bass you want. Sealed units are tight, take quick beats well and remain crisp and accurate. They are also compact and handle additional clean power "transients", (Strong peak bass or kick drum spikes) very well.
Ported boxes are larger, a little less accurate but give better deep lows and slightly more low end bump at the expense of power handling and the tight response we get in sealed designs. Ported subs also need a Subsonic filter. The Alpine amp mentioned has this feature and a good choice for this install, be it sealed or ported.
Swez
Yes, #4 gage wire is best for this amp and if you ever add another amp later, (Mids/Highs) #4 wire will leave room to do that if needed.
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/9/2007 00:40:39
Well... today I built a sealed box with an internal volume of .9 cu ft.
swez on 12/9/2007 04:28:48
That should do it for the Alpine 12 we have been discussing here. This sub will need a few days to break in when new, but after the break in period, it will give nice deep lows and some solid punch from the kick drum.
You may wish to add about 1lb of polyfill stuffing to help dampen the rear bass waves in this enclosure: Like this...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-317
No need to pay $10.00 for this either. Can get the same thing for much less at WalMart or most fabric stores.
Enjoy the bass and use it wisely,
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/9/2007 12:49:59
Thanx for all the help :)
swez on 12/9/2007 13:11:18
Indeed and enjoy your new rig!
Swez
PS Mind tossing a few coins in the site donation fund... at this time of year, donations are far and few between. How much is up to you.
jamesp on 12/9/2007 15:51:14
I have the Alpine type R 12" w/ 4+4 voice coils wired for 2 Ohms..I am powering it with a Rockford Fosgate 600.1 bd. I bought a prefab 1 cu/ft shimmed to maybe .85 cu/ft and w/ polyfill stuffing all around.
Swez recommended this combo a while back and it sounds great. I have compared it to 2 type E's in a ported box and there was really no comparison. I dont know if the E's were in a properly sized enclosure but they were supposed to be. The pair of E's sounded like they always hit the same note, not at all tight like my sealed R which can keep up on fast, hard bass riffs as well as hit the Boom notes when called on to do so. I have been more than happy with this sub.
kcdakrt on 12/11/2007 00:12:05
Could I port this box in the future if needed or would it be too small?
SQLThump on 12/11/2007 03:18:29
Actually James, the problem with the Type-E's is that they are for use in sealed and bandpass enclosures only. I had an older model Type E, and put it in a ported box for a little while, and it was one of the worst sounding subs I have ever heard. I have heard several in sealed boxes, and am impressed every time with thier great performance for the power handling and cost. I have yet to hear them in a bandpass enclosure.
swez on 12/11/2007 04:03:34
This sub works best in compact sealed enclosures.
Yes, porting is possible, but a larger box is needed. (not an off the shelf item either) The low bass will be a tab louder, but may not be as clean and crisp as sealed.
That's a lot of extra work for a few dB more low bass that may actually sound worse then sealed. As a spare time project, you can try it though and report back your findings.
According to Crutchfield: "the ideal size recommended by Alpine is 1.7 cu/ft, so this is the enclosure recommended by Crutchfield. A slot port with the following dimensions should be used with the 1.7 cu/ft enclosure: W=12", H=1.25", L=21". If you cannot use a slot port in your enclosure, you will need a port tube with the following dimensions: Diameter=3", L=9.9".
Is it worth all the extra work and expense?
Swez
Swez
jamesp on 12/11/2007 08:02:36
Mcbusta-Thump, Yea, I thought that something was bad wrong with those E's. The owner seemed quite proud of them so I didnt mention it to him.
SQLThump on 12/11/2007 13:32:44
Hmmmm, didn't even know there was any kind of option for porting the Type E. That does sound like waay too much extra work to do that. That is one huge slotted port requirement as well.
Jamse, your a nice guy. I have never cared who the owner was or how proud they are of their gear, if something is not up to spec....they get told about it. Even if the proud owner is myself.
kcdakrt on 12/11/2007 15:48:55
I've got extra wood so I might try it just too see what it sounds like.
swez on 12/11/2007 19:36:53
Sure, why not if you have the time and materials. Then you can swap the sub in and out of either box and determine what sounds best aste in for your tastes.
Swez
jamesp on 12/12/2007 12:50:32
McBusta-Thump,
you're not tellin me that you would dis a brutha for having a set of board mounted drivers taped to his dash are youGRIN
Thse E's I was refering to eariler may well have been in a bandpass box, if so, it did not work out well IMO.
kcdakrt on 12/13/2007 23:06:58
Well today I was givin the chance to purchase a soundsplinter rl-s 12 really cheap for about $120. So alpine or soundsplinter? Oh and by the way, I heard a type r today it sounded great.
swez on 12/14/2007 03:28:21
From experience, the Alpine Type R series is one of the most versatile and solid subs on the market for under $200.
Yes, there are better subs out there for certain types of installs, but for everyday use and reliability, this is one tough sub to beat for the price.
Swez
SQLThump on 12/14/2007 03:54:23
James, I wouldn't diss a brotha for runnin the ghetto tweets if they sounded good!GRIN
I'd have to buy him a beer, and show him the light of 20W Alpine 5.25's, hooked up to a $20 JBL amp, that you can't turn up because of the low power handling! YEEEEEAH.
Last winter was a very looon boooorrrring winter, and I have a reputation to maintain of being not so much an audiophile, but more a board certified car audio nutjob. A lot of ghetto things happend last winter in the name of sound.
But......I am changing my ways....kind of. I'll still keep my reputation as being the most "hood-rich" (whatever the hell that REALLY means) foo' in the trailer park, but with much less ghetto results. Progress is being made.............
Which brings me to my next point: why you must step up and hold your boy a "car audio intervention" if you will,much like CK did for me, and come to him and be like
"Homeslice, yo bumps be fakin the funk"
"Fakin the funk?"
"Yeah, dats whattup son, You be needin one of dem Sealed boxes!"
"But......."
"NO BUT! Just do it, I'll help you out with it!"
"Alright then, lets get some duckets"
Or the proper English version of that. Whatever floats your boat. Ever since I first made a stereo work, I have felt the need to make better sound, acheive constant improvement, and get as many people with fakin the funk systems into better sounding stuff, including myself. GRIN
BTW....I will probably never live down the taped down tweeters, and get a great laugh every time they are brought up. I still use ont of the panels to hold up my hood. Ahhhhhh......... the sheer pleasures of driving a Bucket..............
KCD----
That Soundsplinter unit is a beast. With true 3 inch peak to peak excursion, 1200RMS power handling, a minimum enclosure of 2 cubic feet (with 6.0 reccomended for H/T for a flatter curve) this definitely does not quilify as a good daily driver sub. I will require box twice as large as the Alpine unit, more than twice the power, and will probably totally drown out any hopes of highs and mids if fully powered. Not to mention the single 4 ohm coil, which it says it says the only option for this sub, which will require an amp to make thaty power at four ohms, instead of a more efficeint one or two ohms which works great for most sub amps.
A link for this sub.
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=4
This website is selling the sub at $450, so you would be scoring a major price break here. If you still want this killer deal you must sit and ask yourself.....
Do I need this much bass?
Can I afford an amp to properly power this sub?
Will I be able to perform upgrades to the charging system if the amp I use to power this sub begins to bog down the charging system?
Do I have the interior space in my truck to run this sub, and still have a decent passenger compartment?
Is this much bass going to attract too much unwanted attention from police or performers of vehicle theft?
Analyze these questions, and ask the same about the Type R. Look at your answers of Sub Vs. Sub, and from there draw a reasonable conclusion.
BTW that is a sweet deal on a sub that can handle a lot of power, and even I would have a hard time turning down deal like that. But you have to think about your real needs.
jamesp on 12/14/2007 08:05:57
Mcbusta thump be spending the duckets and pimpin the Bucket.
You be goin sealed, fa real? Heard dat dog. Tight.
Word, Holmes.
SQLThump on 12/14/2007 16:37:59
Yeah, I am actually canning the usually BP designs I use and will be going sealed for my next system.
And am pimpin the bucket now that I got the duckets......**** it!
kcdakrt on 12/15/2007 20:08:56
oops... meant the rl-p
jamesp on 12/15/2007 21:01:46
swez on 12/16/2007 08:21:08
Duckets? Had to look that one up as ghetto-slang is not part of this old square's daily word list... LOL "Am a chillin' as I's shillin"
Duckets or Ducats: A gold coin that was used as a trade currency throughout Europe before World War I. Its weight is 3.4909 grams of .986 gold, which is 0.1107 troy ounce real gold. (Odd this was not a .999 gold coin)
Too funny here guys... The King's English is hard enough, let alone Rappers' slang and a bag-o-chip ta go... whatever?
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/25/2007 14:24:09
After the alpine r, what would be your next choice?
swez on 12/25/2007 15:44:17
There are so many great subs out there, (And a lot of cheap junk too) it depends on your budget, enclosure size and power you want to throw at a given sub. It also depends on whether you want pure SPL, SQ of SQL performance. So far, we talked about SQL subs. (Accurate and push out solid bass)
Infinity, JBL, JL, Polk, Rockford & Resonance Engineering all come to mind as above average SQL subs.
If you want more low end and power to throw at a sub, then Kicker would be a good choice. (Comp VR's or Solobarics) These require large ported boxes and love lots of power. Expect to spend more for them though as they really need a lot of RMS power to get the most from them.
Frankly, depending on power, enclosure and preferred type of music, the Alpine Type R is one of the most affordable, reliable and above average over-all performer.
Swez
PS Am sure others will have other suggestions based on what they have used or played with too. Let's see what this list looks like when others fill in the list.
kcdakrt on 12/25/2007 16:48:12
Well a friend of mine wants the same setup, but he doesn't want the alpine amp. What amp could he use to push a type r
swez on 12/25/2007 17:48:33
If he has the cash, the JL 500/1 would be an excellent choice. If not, consider these:
JBL Grand Touring Series GTO601.1 II
Kenwood KAC-8103D
Kenwood Excelon KAC-X10D
MTX X Thunder 600XD
Infinity Reference 1600a
Yes, there are more to consider. But these are the newer models from Crutch. Older models are also useful, but harder to find. The key is 500-600 Wrms @ 2 ohms with that sub.
Swez
kcdakrt on 12/25/2007 18:39:18
He was looking at this SoundStorm 1F850. I've never heard of this company but I think he's lookin at it because of the price.
swez on 12/25/2007 20:49:14
Am not a big fan of this immitation knock off of the real deal... Sound Stream. For the budget, I think his best option would be the Kenwood KAC-8103D.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17789
If he really wants a first rate amp to power his Alpine, the Rockford Fosgate P600.1bd would be an even better choice:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=18338
Yes, tell him to save his pennies and buy well the first time out. The Sound Storm is just not a quality piece of gear. It's cheap all right... but reliabilty and solid performance are worth a few more bucks. If you buy a great sub, use a quality amp to get the best from it.
Swez
jamesp on 12/26/2007 08:28:21
I vote for the Rockford Fosgate P600.1 bd and a 12" type R in a 1ft³ box. You can find the amp for under 200 dollars if you look and mine barley gets warm running the Alpine sub and performs flawlessly. Buy right the first time and there will be no regrets. This is a well matched combo with headroom to spare.
kcdakrt on 01/3/2008 22:54:28
Off topic, but what range can i expect the spl to be in?
swez on 01/4/2008 04:08:02
Live concert levels are typically capped at 120dB. A typical nightclub reading at the apex, (Sound focal point) 110 - 115 dB is plenty loud and can leave ones ears ringing after a few hours at this SPL level.
In a vehicle, 120 dB is actually a very solid number and depending on several variables, you might well see low 130's dB of bass with the package we have laid out with you so far. Sedans with sealed trunk mounted subs are a few dB lower and in the mid 120's SPL range at this power level.
FYI: 120 dB is considered hazzardous to long-term hearing losses w/o hearing protection and long exposure times. After doing many live concerts and nightclub systems, the mids and highs above 110dB can be very detrimental to long-term hearing. We often cap these at 105-108 dB at the apex for that very reason. (Why do you think most long- term DJ's wear head sets?)
Don't take this info lightly my friend... hearing loss is a very real concern. Any Audiologist will tell you the same thing. Exposure to high SPL levels over extended periods of time, will damage hearing permanently and is irreversible.
Are we clear on this one?
Swez
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