Hey guys, have a 60,000 BTU space heater I'd like to use to heat my garage/shop this winter. It's jetted for natural gas now, but would like to use propane for now.
Am wondering what the propane usage would be, tank size needed and how to convert the natural gas regulator to propane. This unit is very old and was originally designed for propane, but the regulator was refitted to natural gas at some point before I got it.
This unit is an older "Monkey Wards" heater, 60,000 BTU unit w/ thermostat and standing pilot. It does require an outside exhaust pipe and I can manage that easily enough. The questions are:
1. What jet fittings are needed for propane?
2. How much propane will it consume? (lbs/hour of propane)
3. Want to keep a steady 60 degrees F (25-40 degree rise)
This unit does have a standing pilot, variable thermostat and can be used for natural gas or propane. It also has an internal low RPM fan, but I would guess it is low-moderate eff. (~20 years old)
It worked when I got it, (free) but am wondering what steps are needed to convert from N-gas to P-gas and how much propane per hour it may need. (Hopefully under 1.25 lbs/hr.)
Comments?
Swez
Replies (8)
ttocs on 11/25/2007 12:50:48
I live in the desert, if it was yer ac I might be able to help.....
swez on 11/25/2007 13:11:37
Yeah thanks a lot. Have you forgotten the many winters you endured while living in Indy? Well, it's all good but I don't envy the hot weather you guys go through for what... 9-10 months in a year?
It seems that Mr. B is really enjoying his stay in Mexicali and commutes to Vegas. The trouble here, are the wild fires and the eventual fact that has been predicted for many years.... California will fall into the ocean someday after a horrendous earthquake. The North Ridge Quake in the late 80's was just a warm-up burp tone compared to a major slippage along those notorious fault lines.
I hope we don't see that event in our lifetime. For now, bring on some propane heating info.
Swez
ttocs on 11/25/2007 21:38:17
it is really hot here 3 - 4 months of the year (jun-sept) but the rest of the year it is just beautifull. I am almost ready to turn on my heater tonight, still fighting it but it will be in the high 40's tonight.
swez on 11/25/2007 23:06:23
Hum, that's not too bad once a person gets used to the big heat of summer. It's been a long time since I was out to your area and parts of Texas too.
Frankly, a round of golf at 100 degrees, 10% RH and a light breeze felt very nice. (Much better than 85/85 we often get here in summer) But as desert dwellers know well, that heat drops fast after the sun goes down. When used to 90 degree days, a 40-ish night probably feels pretty chilly huh?
We has a high of 44 here today, but the wind was up a bit and felt a bit nippy. By 4:00 PM, the temps dropped to the mid 30's and the wind made it even more chilly. We got a light dusting of snow in the early PM and it's now warming up a bit again.
http://weather.weatherbug.com/MI/Garden-City-weather.html?zcode=z5602&zip=48135
Am dreading the cold, wintery days on this new gig too. It's been tough to meet daily quotas in good weather so far. I can only imagine how much this will change during the winter months of slush, snow, ice and freezing sleet. Can take the cold OK, but the longer drive times in tough weather could be a real PITA and less $$/day too. Hope this is a mild winter.
From past experience, this could be a mild winter and perhaps a bit more snow/ice/sleet than usual is possible. Anything under 35" of snow is a good year except for the farmers. They need that reserve melt for a good sping crop. It's those sub Zero days/nights I can do without. A -10 degree stretch in January for a few weeks at one time can be a real PITA. Add a little wind chill factor in the mix and it's brutal for guys who work outside a lot.
Uhm, 35-40 degree nights would be pretty darn nice here bro. Those are pretty much over til mid-March. Am not complaining though. Our guys in Canada have it much worse.
Swez
PS It seems that a 30 degree swing from day to night is doable to most. But a larger swing is tough to get used to. Anyway, time for bed. Have 6 hours of sleep and the routine starts all over again. Good night nurse!
jamesp on 11/26/2007 18:44:41
Swez, those old vented radiant heaters are only about 65% efficient. If you can find a used 30000 BTU (5 radiants) infrared heater cheap it will save on gas enough to pay for itself quickly.
The newer infrared heaters are not convertible from Lp to natural gas..You will have to find one set up for the proper fuel. The reason that they cant be easily converted is due to the fact that they have O2 depletion sensors on them that shut the heater off if they detect a drop in oxygen. This is a good thing. The 5 plaque models will burn 1, 3 or all 5 . 3 burner models on natural gas are about 18000 BTU's and burn 1,2 or 3 plaques. These things are 99% efficient.
I havent kept up on prices but I sold the 3 burner models for about 179.00 and the 5 for 269.00. They have available thermostats and blowers but I dont like the blowers on infrrared because they actually warm objects in a room like sunlight thru a window
I dont know how much space u need to heat but a 3 burner will take care of 250 ft/2 of marginally insulated open space pretty well.
Some of the old vented heaters didnt have the standing pilot operating off of the gas control valve so they arent controlled by the thermocouple...not a good or safe thing.
swez on 11/26/2007 19:31:14
Jimmy, thanks for the heads up and yes, IR heaters are far more efficient than the unit I have now and would be a good investment at another point in time. A neighbor used them in smaller shed we built and the 2 panel unit worked very well as it was well insulated too.
Am trying to hobble along with what I have now and yes, I know about oxy-depletion too. (Have a 250,000 BTU flame thrower that eats propane at 1.75 lbs/hr) I have to crack a door when using it to limit O2 depletion.
The garage is 24' x 24' x and about 10' high. It leaks like a seive and is not well insulated to date. (Gable roof peaks at ~12') In this case, I realize that a lot of heat will be trapped at the peak and can use a fan to pull some of that down to help efficiencies.
For now, the 250,000 BTU blast jet is just too costly and noisy to operate for more than 15-20 minutes per hour. It heat the air temp in the space well, but you know the drawbacks as well as I do... Expensive to operate, noisey and very ineffecient for regurlar use.
My thoughts are to have a reasonably eff heating system, (for now)using what I have on hand for now. No, it's not optimal nor used everyday either. (Mostly weekends when I have time to use such a thing) But look to more efficient methods later.
Knowing these parameters, what do you suggest? More out of pocket expenses on newer products now, is not an option. What would you do based on the info as is?
Swez
cplkittle on 11/26/2007 23:00:28
I use an 8" round attachment for a standard gas grill propane tank. It puts off quite a bit of heat! Enough for a 20x40 shop. It heats it up in about 15 minutes, and it keeps it warm pretty well (until the shop doors are opened).
I only use it when it is extremely cold here in the north georgia mountains, where it can drop to a fridgid 25F. I don't konw how well it will stand up to the artic conditions in Sweztown :)
swez on 11/27/2007 05:49:33
Have tried the 2 burner BBQ routine, (15-20,000 BTU?) and using those ceramic coals as heat keepers and it's fine at 30 degrees and acts like a small pot-bellied stove.
Also use a fan to push air around the thing to radiate more heat into the work area. But when we get the really cold days of 10 degrees or lower, that will not raise temps more than about 10 degrees. Anything below 55 degrees, does not let the flourescent lamps fire up to adequate lighting. (Light emission is very poor below that temp)
The goal is to get a steady 55-60 degrees and comfortable enough to do most things well. Can get that now w/ a combination of the blast furnace and BBQ grill, but propane use/cost goes up dramatically too.
The more I look at this, Jimmy's idea of multiple IR heating panels makes the most sense. They are very efficient to operate, provide good, safe heat and over time, the propane cost savings will pay for the investment. These things can run on standard 20# tanks for a long time. Add a little "Irish Coffee" to the mix and good nuff huh? ;~)
Swez
Am wondering what the propane usage would be, tank size needed and how to convert the natural gas regulator to propane. This unit is very old and was originally designed for propane, but the regulator was refitted to natural gas at some point before I got it.
This unit is an older "Monkey Wards" heater, 60,000 BTU unit w/ thermostat and standing pilot. It does require an outside exhaust pipe and I can manage that easily enough. The questions are:
1. What jet fittings are needed for propane?
2. How much propane will it consume? (lbs/hour of propane)
3. Want to keep a steady 60 degrees F (25-40 degree rise)
This unit does have a standing pilot, variable thermostat and can be used for natural gas or propane. It also has an internal low RPM fan, but I would guess it is low-moderate eff. (~20 years old)
It worked when I got it, (free) but am wondering what steps are needed to convert from N-gas to P-gas and how much propane per hour it may need. (Hopefully under 1.25 lbs/hr.)
Comments?
Swez
Replies (8)
ttocs on 11/25/2007 12:50:48
I live in the desert, if it was yer ac I might be able to help.....
swez on 11/25/2007 13:11:37
Yeah thanks a lot. Have you forgotten the many winters you endured while living in Indy? Well, it's all good but I don't envy the hot weather you guys go through for what... 9-10 months in a year?
It seems that Mr. B is really enjoying his stay in Mexicali and commutes to Vegas. The trouble here, are the wild fires and the eventual fact that has been predicted for many years.... California will fall into the ocean someday after a horrendous earthquake. The North Ridge Quake in the late 80's was just a warm-up burp tone compared to a major slippage along those notorious fault lines.
I hope we don't see that event in our lifetime. For now, bring on some propane heating info.
Swez
ttocs on 11/25/2007 21:38:17
it is really hot here 3 - 4 months of the year (jun-sept) but the rest of the year it is just beautifull. I am almost ready to turn on my heater tonight, still fighting it but it will be in the high 40's tonight.
swez on 11/25/2007 23:06:23
Hum, that's not too bad once a person gets used to the big heat of summer. It's been a long time since I was out to your area and parts of Texas too.
Frankly, a round of golf at 100 degrees, 10% RH and a light breeze felt very nice. (Much better than 85/85 we often get here in summer) But as desert dwellers know well, that heat drops fast after the sun goes down. When used to 90 degree days, a 40-ish night probably feels pretty chilly huh?
We has a high of 44 here today, but the wind was up a bit and felt a bit nippy. By 4:00 PM, the temps dropped to the mid 30's and the wind made it even more chilly. We got a light dusting of snow in the early PM and it's now warming up a bit again.
http://weather.weatherbug.com/MI/Garden-City-weather.html?zcode=z5602&zip=48135
Am dreading the cold, wintery days on this new gig too. It's been tough to meet daily quotas in good weather so far. I can only imagine how much this will change during the winter months of slush, snow, ice and freezing sleet. Can take the cold OK, but the longer drive times in tough weather could be a real PITA and less $$/day too. Hope this is a mild winter.
From past experience, this could be a mild winter and perhaps a bit more snow/ice/sleet than usual is possible. Anything under 35" of snow is a good year except for the farmers. They need that reserve melt for a good sping crop. It's those sub Zero days/nights I can do without. A -10 degree stretch in January for a few weeks at one time can be a real PITA. Add a little wind chill factor in the mix and it's brutal for guys who work outside a lot.
Uhm, 35-40 degree nights would be pretty darn nice here bro. Those are pretty much over til mid-March. Am not complaining though. Our guys in Canada have it much worse.
Swez
PS It seems that a 30 degree swing from day to night is doable to most. But a larger swing is tough to get used to. Anyway, time for bed. Have 6 hours of sleep and the routine starts all over again. Good night nurse!
jamesp on 11/26/2007 18:44:41
Swez, those old vented radiant heaters are only about 65% efficient. If you can find a used 30000 BTU (5 radiants) infrared heater cheap it will save on gas enough to pay for itself quickly.
The newer infrared heaters are not convertible from Lp to natural gas..You will have to find one set up for the proper fuel. The reason that they cant be easily converted is due to the fact that they have O2 depletion sensors on them that shut the heater off if they detect a drop in oxygen. This is a good thing. The 5 plaque models will burn 1, 3 or all 5 . 3 burner models on natural gas are about 18000 BTU's and burn 1,2 or 3 plaques. These things are 99% efficient.
I havent kept up on prices but I sold the 3 burner models for about 179.00 and the 5 for 269.00. They have available thermostats and blowers but I dont like the blowers on infrrared because they actually warm objects in a room like sunlight thru a window
I dont know how much space u need to heat but a 3 burner will take care of 250 ft/2 of marginally insulated open space pretty well.
Some of the old vented heaters didnt have the standing pilot operating off of the gas control valve so they arent controlled by the thermocouple...not a good or safe thing.
swez on 11/26/2007 19:31:14
Jimmy, thanks for the heads up and yes, IR heaters are far more efficient than the unit I have now and would be a good investment at another point in time. A neighbor used them in smaller shed we built and the 2 panel unit worked very well as it was well insulated too.
Am trying to hobble along with what I have now and yes, I know about oxy-depletion too. (Have a 250,000 BTU flame thrower that eats propane at 1.75 lbs/hr) I have to crack a door when using it to limit O2 depletion.
The garage is 24' x 24' x and about 10' high. It leaks like a seive and is not well insulated to date. (Gable roof peaks at ~12') In this case, I realize that a lot of heat will be trapped at the peak and can use a fan to pull some of that down to help efficiencies.
For now, the 250,000 BTU blast jet is just too costly and noisy to operate for more than 15-20 minutes per hour. It heat the air temp in the space well, but you know the drawbacks as well as I do... Expensive to operate, noisey and very ineffecient for regurlar use.
My thoughts are to have a reasonably eff heating system, (for now)using what I have on hand for now. No, it's not optimal nor used everyday either. (Mostly weekends when I have time to use such a thing) But look to more efficient methods later.
Knowing these parameters, what do you suggest? More out of pocket expenses on newer products now, is not an option. What would you do based on the info as is?
Swez
cplkittle on 11/26/2007 23:00:28
I use an 8" round attachment for a standard gas grill propane tank. It puts off quite a bit of heat! Enough for a 20x40 shop. It heats it up in about 15 minutes, and it keeps it warm pretty well (until the shop doors are opened).
I only use it when it is extremely cold here in the north georgia mountains, where it can drop to a fridgid 25F. I don't konw how well it will stand up to the artic conditions in Sweztown :)
swez on 11/27/2007 05:49:33
Have tried the 2 burner BBQ routine, (15-20,000 BTU?) and using those ceramic coals as heat keepers and it's fine at 30 degrees and acts like a small pot-bellied stove.
Also use a fan to push air around the thing to radiate more heat into the work area. But when we get the really cold days of 10 degrees or lower, that will not raise temps more than about 10 degrees. Anything below 55 degrees, does not let the flourescent lamps fire up to adequate lighting. (Light emission is very poor below that temp)
The goal is to get a steady 55-60 degrees and comfortable enough to do most things well. Can get that now w/ a combination of the blast furnace and BBQ grill, but propane use/cost goes up dramatically too.
The more I look at this, Jimmy's idea of multiple IR heating panels makes the most sense. They are very efficient to operate, provide good, safe heat and over time, the propane cost savings will pay for the investment. These things can run on standard 20# tanks for a long time. Add a little "Irish Coffee" to the mix and good nuff huh? ;~)
Swez
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