Hey looking to use these in a dome light and radio modification.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=1N5400FSCT-ND
Planing to isolate the right and left doors of the truck and trigger a latching relay from the drivers door to keep the radio on until the door is opened. and also wire in a dome light over ride that keeps the light off when switched so.
Oh and i much prefer the other forums layout and display. but i need and answer so here i am lol
Replies (14)
swez on 11/23/2007 21:14:18
Hey Jackets, welcome to CK!
OK, it looks like you want to use diodes to do something here, but not sure I get the full read on what the exact goal is? Can we try a slightly different method:
1. My truck does "this" now...
2. I want it to do "that" when opening the doors?
3. I hope to accomplish this project with the end result being???
Swez
cplkittle on 11/24/2007 01:50:22
Diode isolating door triggers is not a difficult task. You have to know the polarity of the trigger (most of the time they are negative).
I assume the diode isolation is for the driver's side retained accessory power. In this case, tap the door side of the diode on the door trigger wire and attach to the trigger terminal of the relay (85 or 86). Here is a good diagram:
http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page5.asp
Or you can use a timed relay for a longer output, just make sure you use another relay to disable the timed relay when the key is on and to prevent the retained acc power from backfeeding in to the switched circuit, powering everything that would come on if the key were in the acc or on position.
Jackets on 11/24/2007 03:01:54
Swez,
Its crash104936221 from the ezboard forum.
1. My truck is normal, key on = acc on, key off=acc off.
2. door closed key on = acc on, door closed key off = acc on, door opened key off =acc off. switch to kill the dome is simple.
3. isolate the door pins, and install a latching relay with diodes to prevent feedback into systems other then the ones I'm trying to modify.
cplkittle,
sounds about right.
My main interest is to know if that diode i listed will do the job i need it to?
Digikey part number 1N5400FSCT-ND
Thanks guys
swez on 11/24/2007 08:46:10
I think Kit is the better resourse for this scenario. He's a Pro Installer for alarms and audio gear and probably knows this one in his sleep. To that end, I'll just read the posted comments and maybe learn something to help others later.
Swez COFFEE
PS Glad you came to CK. It's a great site, well staffed and lots of talent here too. Once you get used to the format, it kinda grows on one like warts. LOL Welcome to our family!
cplkittle on 11/24/2007 10:39:58
That 3amp diode you listed is fine for the door triggers. I normally use 1 or 3 amp diodes on door trigger isolation when needed for alarms. The trigger is very low amperage, just a weak pulse that triggers a sensor in the BCM. probably 250 or 500 milliamps.
Jackets on 11/24/2007 14:05:57
Great thanks guys.
Another question on diodes different application.
Looking to interface a 12Vsystem on a 24V starting/charging system in a tug, its currently only pulling from one battery and causing starting problems. runs heaters, lights, fans and so on.
Looking for a PN for Diodes to build a harness to equalize the load on the the battery's, Needs to support up to say 50A or better if possible.
Thanks guys.
Joe
ttocs on 11/24/2007 15:03:58
my truck is actually got a similar circuit set up that I was able to use from my alarm. I have an old DEI sidewinder 7000 which was the installers alarm from 10 yrs ago. It has 4 button remote that with a different button sequence you can control up to 6 different outputs. It also has the ability to latch one of these outputs to the door circuit so I have it wired up so that if I push button 4 on my remote the alarm turns the deck on. I also have it set up so that it keeps the deck on until the door is closed.
AS for this other diode idea I am completely confused. You should be able to drive a 12v system from a 24 volt system. Drive the holy keck out of it but I don't know why.......
hey kit won't he need mulitple diodes even if he only wants to seperate one door? You would need to completly isolate that door from the passenger side or you will still get voltage with the pass door open. He would need 2 diodes for one door right?
swez on 11/24/2007 16:15:39
Am trying to sort out the tug boat issue and let's see if we are on the same page:
1. The charging system and primary electricals on this boat are a 24 volt charger, starter and main battery pack? (Dual 12 volt cells in series or a 24 volt main cell?)
2. Also wish to use a 12 volt circuit to power other things that are based on 12 volt DC? (Up to 50 Ampere load?)
3. Want to balance out the load between each 12 volt cell so that both are sharing the load and equalized? (Neither 12 volt cell is being strained excessively and shares the load equally as possible?)
Hum, am not sure diodes are the answer here. However, a DC to DC converter might be a good option. Here, we look for a device that can take in 24 volts DC, drop it down to 12 volts and adequate current to supply all devices used and a margin of additional current as a reserve for short term peaks.
That's going to be a tough one at the wattage level desired. I would be tempted to suggest a separate "dedicated" battery pack of 2 x 12 volt Deep Cycle batteries in parallel and a charger to keep them topped off.
If the Tug has 120 volt AC as part of its package, it can be done well this way and just use a normal battery charger of the appropriate current supply to keep the 12 volt system well charged. If not, we are back to the DC/DC Step-down convertor as the charging source. (24 VDC input, 12 VDC output and at least 10-15 A's of charging capacity.
Say more please,
Swez
Jackets on 11/24/2007 17:32:40
Ttocs, Yes two are needed for what i have in mind
Swez,
1. Yes 24v Main system for starting, nav lights, 2 12v batts wired in series for that system.
2. Yes
3. Yes
Thinking that with the diodes they will keep the batterys seperated, and voltages close to the same on each, and its simple to package and protect. The current draw is a rough guess should be close.
120V is a negative.
Only other option is a dedicated 12V system with its own alt and batteys although thats not really a bad idea lol. keeps all the load off the 24v system and even if it was drawn down while engine off, the starting system would still be fine. but thats alot of extra cost...
cplkittle on 11/24/2007 19:56:07
you want to pull 12 volts from each battery and diode isolate the positives so that they do not try to equalize through the accessory wire you are adding right?
Novel Idea, but you can't do it. Battery #1 is grounded to the chassis. That is the battery that should be connected to the 12 volt system (using the chassis ground for a common ground).
Battery #2 is not grounded to the chassis, and therefore would have to be an independent floating circuit (can not use chassis ground on any part of the system) If you did ground the negative from battery #2 you would create a complete circuit in battery #1 to ground (battery #1 positive connected to battery #2 negative).
Jackets on 11/25/2007 03:36:21
Ah yes never thought of the ground thanks.
So a hole second system it is then lol.
swez on 11/25/2007 04:30:13
Yep, that's about the end game here. A 50A continous draw is considerable on any battery pack.
Since they are used for long durations of time and no charging system to feed them when the engine(s) are shut off, a Deep Cycle battery pack is the only thing that can take that kind of discharge and come back for more when the charging circuit is off. When the engines are started again, the ALT will take over to power the load and charge the battery pack again.
Another option to consider here might be the use of a stand alone gas pwered generator. It's a self-supporting device that can be used to run all 12 volt devices and no need for a 12 volt ALT. They are cheap to operate, a bit noisy but can be a very effective system of charging and a steady supply of needed power. Most commercial Gens will deliver 120 VAC and/or 12 VDC, depending on how they are configured.
For marine use, one needs reliability and durability as well. (Harsh conditions) The same thing for the battery pack. Marine level battery packs are more expensive, but designed to take hard use. Here, it would be a good idea to talk this over with a marine electronics specialist. They'll know the details and spec products to use and give a generous safety margin as well. (Duty cycle current x 1.5 or higher is probably a good starting place)
Swez
ttocs on 11/25/2007 12:52:23
wouldn't this be the time for a transformer for the power problem?
swez on 11/25/2007 13:18:39
Transformers only work with AC and pulsed DC voltage supplies. That's where a DC to DC converter would make sense. However, to get the power he is talking about, (600 - 1000 watts continously) a stand alone generator makes a lot more sense.
A DC to DC converter would be very expensive in this power range and to feed it, it would still drain the main batteries on this boat. So, the best option I can see, would be a stand alone generator and a battery backup pack if the generator ever goes down.
Swez
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=1N5400FSCT-ND
Planing to isolate the right and left doors of the truck and trigger a latching relay from the drivers door to keep the radio on until the door is opened. and also wire in a dome light over ride that keeps the light off when switched so.
Oh and i much prefer the other forums layout and display. but i need and answer so here i am lol
Replies (14)
swez on 11/23/2007 21:14:18
Hey Jackets, welcome to CK!
OK, it looks like you want to use diodes to do something here, but not sure I get the full read on what the exact goal is? Can we try a slightly different method:
1. My truck does "this" now...
2. I want it to do "that" when opening the doors?
3. I hope to accomplish this project with the end result being???
Swez
cplkittle on 11/24/2007 01:50:22
Diode isolating door triggers is not a difficult task. You have to know the polarity of the trigger (most of the time they are negative).
I assume the diode isolation is for the driver's side retained accessory power. In this case, tap the door side of the diode on the door trigger wire and attach to the trigger terminal of the relay (85 or 86). Here is a good diagram:
http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page5.asp
Or you can use a timed relay for a longer output, just make sure you use another relay to disable the timed relay when the key is on and to prevent the retained acc power from backfeeding in to the switched circuit, powering everything that would come on if the key were in the acc or on position.
Jackets on 11/24/2007 03:01:54
Swez,
Its crash104936221 from the ezboard forum.
1. My truck is normal, key on = acc on, key off=acc off.
2. door closed key on = acc on, door closed key off = acc on, door opened key off =acc off. switch to kill the dome is simple.
3. isolate the door pins, and install a latching relay with diodes to prevent feedback into systems other then the ones I'm trying to modify.
cplkittle,
sounds about right.
My main interest is to know if that diode i listed will do the job i need it to?
Digikey part number 1N5400FSCT-ND
Thanks guys
swez on 11/24/2007 08:46:10
I think Kit is the better resourse for this scenario. He's a Pro Installer for alarms and audio gear and probably knows this one in his sleep. To that end, I'll just read the posted comments and maybe learn something to help others later.
Swez COFFEE
PS Glad you came to CK. It's a great site, well staffed and lots of talent here too. Once you get used to the format, it kinda grows on one like warts. LOL Welcome to our family!
cplkittle on 11/24/2007 10:39:58
That 3amp diode you listed is fine for the door triggers. I normally use 1 or 3 amp diodes on door trigger isolation when needed for alarms. The trigger is very low amperage, just a weak pulse that triggers a sensor in the BCM. probably 250 or 500 milliamps.
Jackets on 11/24/2007 14:05:57
Great thanks guys.
Another question on diodes different application.
Looking to interface a 12Vsystem on a 24V starting/charging system in a tug, its currently only pulling from one battery and causing starting problems. runs heaters, lights, fans and so on.
Looking for a PN for Diodes to build a harness to equalize the load on the the battery's, Needs to support up to say 50A or better if possible.
Thanks guys.
Joe
ttocs on 11/24/2007 15:03:58
my truck is actually got a similar circuit set up that I was able to use from my alarm. I have an old DEI sidewinder 7000 which was the installers alarm from 10 yrs ago. It has 4 button remote that with a different button sequence you can control up to 6 different outputs. It also has the ability to latch one of these outputs to the door circuit so I have it wired up so that if I push button 4 on my remote the alarm turns the deck on. I also have it set up so that it keeps the deck on until the door is closed.
AS for this other diode idea I am completely confused. You should be able to drive a 12v system from a 24 volt system. Drive the holy keck out of it but I don't know why.......
hey kit won't he need mulitple diodes even if he only wants to seperate one door? You would need to completly isolate that door from the passenger side or you will still get voltage with the pass door open. He would need 2 diodes for one door right?
swez on 11/24/2007 16:15:39
Am trying to sort out the tug boat issue and let's see if we are on the same page:
1. The charging system and primary electricals on this boat are a 24 volt charger, starter and main battery pack? (Dual 12 volt cells in series or a 24 volt main cell?)
2. Also wish to use a 12 volt circuit to power other things that are based on 12 volt DC? (Up to 50 Ampere load?)
3. Want to balance out the load between each 12 volt cell so that both are sharing the load and equalized? (Neither 12 volt cell is being strained excessively and shares the load equally as possible?)
Hum, am not sure diodes are the answer here. However, a DC to DC converter might be a good option. Here, we look for a device that can take in 24 volts DC, drop it down to 12 volts and adequate current to supply all devices used and a margin of additional current as a reserve for short term peaks.
That's going to be a tough one at the wattage level desired. I would be tempted to suggest a separate "dedicated" battery pack of 2 x 12 volt Deep Cycle batteries in parallel and a charger to keep them topped off.
If the Tug has 120 volt AC as part of its package, it can be done well this way and just use a normal battery charger of the appropriate current supply to keep the 12 volt system well charged. If not, we are back to the DC/DC Step-down convertor as the charging source. (24 VDC input, 12 VDC output and at least 10-15 A's of charging capacity.
Say more please,
Swez
Jackets on 11/24/2007 17:32:40
Ttocs, Yes two are needed for what i have in mind
Swez,
1. Yes 24v Main system for starting, nav lights, 2 12v batts wired in series for that system.
2. Yes
3. Yes
Thinking that with the diodes they will keep the batterys seperated, and voltages close to the same on each, and its simple to package and protect. The current draw is a rough guess should be close.
120V is a negative.
Only other option is a dedicated 12V system with its own alt and batteys although thats not really a bad idea lol. keeps all the load off the 24v system and even if it was drawn down while engine off, the starting system would still be fine. but thats alot of extra cost...
cplkittle on 11/24/2007 19:56:07
you want to pull 12 volts from each battery and diode isolate the positives so that they do not try to equalize through the accessory wire you are adding right?
Novel Idea, but you can't do it. Battery #1 is grounded to the chassis. That is the battery that should be connected to the 12 volt system (using the chassis ground for a common ground).
Battery #2 is not grounded to the chassis, and therefore would have to be an independent floating circuit (can not use chassis ground on any part of the system) If you did ground the negative from battery #2 you would create a complete circuit in battery #1 to ground (battery #1 positive connected to battery #2 negative).
Jackets on 11/25/2007 03:36:21
Ah yes never thought of the ground thanks.
So a hole second system it is then lol.
swez on 11/25/2007 04:30:13
Yep, that's about the end game here. A 50A continous draw is considerable on any battery pack.
Since they are used for long durations of time and no charging system to feed them when the engine(s) are shut off, a Deep Cycle battery pack is the only thing that can take that kind of discharge and come back for more when the charging circuit is off. When the engines are started again, the ALT will take over to power the load and charge the battery pack again.
Another option to consider here might be the use of a stand alone gas pwered generator. It's a self-supporting device that can be used to run all 12 volt devices and no need for a 12 volt ALT. They are cheap to operate, a bit noisy but can be a very effective system of charging and a steady supply of needed power. Most commercial Gens will deliver 120 VAC and/or 12 VDC, depending on how they are configured.
For marine use, one needs reliability and durability as well. (Harsh conditions) The same thing for the battery pack. Marine level battery packs are more expensive, but designed to take hard use. Here, it would be a good idea to talk this over with a marine electronics specialist. They'll know the details and spec products to use and give a generous safety margin as well. (Duty cycle current x 1.5 or higher is probably a good starting place)
Swez
ttocs on 11/25/2007 12:52:23
wouldn't this be the time for a transformer for the power problem?
swez on 11/25/2007 13:18:39
Transformers only work with AC and pulsed DC voltage supplies. That's where a DC to DC converter would make sense. However, to get the power he is talking about, (600 - 1000 watts continously) a stand alone generator makes a lot more sense.
A DC to DC converter would be very expensive in this power range and to feed it, it would still drain the main batteries on this boat. So, the best option I can see, would be a stand alone generator and a battery backup pack if the generator ever goes down.
Swez
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