Hi guys,
so im looking at some amps...and for a sub, what is better? Class D or Class A/B? im looking at the phoenix gold 500.2 but its A/B and ive heard that Class D amps are better.
Replies (17)
UKinstaller on 11/5/2007 20:16:42
what kind of sub(s)?
-UK
swez on 11/5/2007 20:24:26
For bass only, Class D amps are often the best route to go. These amps have high efficiencies, (80 % +) cost less and do bass very well. They draw less power per watt than Class A/B amps too. (~60% eff. VS 80%)
They, (Class D amps) also offer more watts per $ and flexibility not matched by Class A/B amps. (Low ohmic loads like 1 or 2 ohms are fine with many/most Class D amps) Most Class A/B amps cannot manage these low ohmic load w/o a trade-off... (Large current draw demands)
HC, (High Current) versions can, but the cost per watt is high and not a real issue for subs.
Had enought?
Swez
gsandha99 on 11/6/2007 11:31:47
Lol..thanks swez...I am thinking about gettin the Phoenix Gold 500.2 from someone too power my 10 inch DVC Type S sub. My kenwood is just draining too much power. Any Advice?
ttocs on 11/6/2007 16:03:46
what series of PG? i would take a 10 yr old piece over a new one with a warrenty any day, they ain't what they use to be by any means.
gsandha99 on 11/6/2007 18:04:15
thats what ive heard....its a tantrum 500.2 but i think im gonna let that go. I have found a SoundStream Rubicon Class A 5.2 500 Watt Amp and a SoundStream Renoir Class A 200 Watt Amp. Any advice on these? i am running a Type S at 2ohms. And what is Class A?
gsandha99 on 11/6/2007 18:57:41
Also, I already own a Soundstream mc245. its a 5 channell amp with the once channel for a sub. I have a dvc sub that can runs at 2 ohms and im wondering if my soundstream will be 2ohm stable. Does anyone know?
swez on 11/7/2007 06:08:15
I think you are not wanting a Class A amp bud! These are super clean sounding, but have an eff rating of like 35-40%. If you think you are having current drain problems now, this topology will make things even worse later for a sub application.
Here's the manual for the 245:
http://www.soundstream.com/manuals/AMP/sa_mc_d_class%20a/mc140245/mc140245.pdf
From what I see here, this amp is not designed for 2 ohm loads on the sub channel. It can deliver a solid 100 watts @ 4 ohms to the sub channel and 35 x 4 in 5 channel mode. A nice amps for sure, but not for SPL geeks. (SQ geeks yes... SPL Geeks, NO)
Swez
gsandha99 on 11/7/2007 11:18:41
Thanks swez....so the search continues....:(....for an efficient amp to give me 300-400 watts at 2 ohms....and under 200 dollars....
MrBrownstone on 11/7/2007 13:29:08
just a minor interjection here. When looking at amplifier classes, those efficiency ratings are at 100% distortion. ex:
Class A 35% eff is really ~25% @ 1%THD
Class AB 60% eff is really ~45% @ 1%THD
Class D 90% effis really ~78% @ 1%THD
Remember, from 1% to 10% THD, we really won't get much more power out of an amplifier.
If you are looking to power a pair of woofers, Class D (or tripath T or X class) are your best bets for efficiency. They produce very little heat and are designed to be run at very low impedances (like either 2ohm or 1ohm) relative to the other classes.
gsandha99 on 11/7/2007 17:59:01
God...I really hate kenwood. Power sucking vampires.
gsandha99 on 11/7/2007 18:14:49
Can anyone suggest an amp for me? Must be around 200 bucks, Must be class D. And must give me at least 300watts at 2ohms
swez on 11/7/2007 18:24:46
Consider the Alpine MRP-M450:
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=120&i=500MRPM450&tp=115
It's been a solid product for Alpine for a while now and a little web shopping should net you the price you are willing to pay. It's Class D, 2 ohm stable and able to deliver a solid 350 RMS @ 2 ohms and usually a little more. (Max current draw will be ~37A's)
Swez
Ash on 11/7/2007 18:33:20
I thought Kenwood made some decent class D bass amps.
If you could find a good used JBL BP300.1 on ebay, you might be happy with that one. Those series are some of the best amps ever made and they were supposedly underrated. Simple and powerful. I would imagine you should be able to get one for about 100 bucks.
Con is they are still in high demand and you may have to bid or pay a little bit higher for a buy-it-now deal.
gsandha99 on 11/7/2007 18:34:56
Thanks again swez. So you think this will do a better job (more efficient, better sounding) than my Kenwood 8101D?
gsandha99 on 11/7/2007 18:43:07
Oh..I have found that JBL...someone is selling it for 125. I also found a PRecision Power 600.2. its seems amazing, but again not for my needs. I have a 4ohm dvc sub and this amp doesnt seem to efficient. Any advice on it? the guy is selling it for 80 bucks!
Ash on 11/7/2007 19:50:50
The PP amp may be a good deal but will definitely overpower that sub and drink more juice from your electrical system. That is if it's even 2 ohm stable mono. Too much to worry about with that one. Let it pass...
The JBL is a very solid performer is probably puts out a little more than the 300 rms. Very easy on the batt/alt. Dimming should be very minimal if you even see any. I have one and it's a nice small package amp. 1 ohm capable with no power increase, but it's very stable.
The only downside with the JBL is it doesn't have a subsonic filter for ported enclosures. Still that could be fixed with a simple solution (high pass F-Mods). That's if your'e going with ported. Also it doesn't have pre-outs to feed another amp. But, if you have a HU with front/rear rca's, then that's not a problem either.
For sealed it's perfect, not to mention it's right up the Type S DVC 10" alley. If I were you I would go for it.
swez on 11/7/2007 23:44:39
Agreed... the 300.1 from JBL is a solid product. That whole series was built very well, rated @ 12.9 volts and a very good amp in all. (BD-300.1, 600.1 and the real power house 1200.1)
The Kenwood you have now is not a bad amp, but it's a tad bit over-rated in power per CEA-2006 specs. It meets specs at 14.4 volts, but not all cars can deliver that voltage on a full-time basis. You may be asking too much from this amp. For the average user, it's fine. But if push comes to shove, it lacks in clean power when pushed beyond its design limits. (User abuse in most cases)
Swez
so im looking at some amps...and for a sub, what is better? Class D or Class A/B? im looking at the phoenix gold 500.2 but its A/B and ive heard that Class D amps are better.
Replies (17)
UKinstaller on 11/5/2007 20:16:42
what kind of sub(s)?
-UK
swez on 11/5/2007 20:24:26
For bass only, Class D amps are often the best route to go. These amps have high efficiencies, (80 % +) cost less and do bass very well. They draw less power per watt than Class A/B amps too. (~60% eff. VS 80%)
They, (Class D amps) also offer more watts per $ and flexibility not matched by Class A/B amps. (Low ohmic loads like 1 or 2 ohms are fine with many/most Class D amps) Most Class A/B amps cannot manage these low ohmic load w/o a trade-off... (Large current draw demands)
HC, (High Current) versions can, but the cost per watt is high and not a real issue for subs.
Had enought?
Swez
gsandha99 on 11/6/2007 11:31:47
Lol..thanks swez...I am thinking about gettin the Phoenix Gold 500.2 from someone too power my 10 inch DVC Type S sub. My kenwood is just draining too much power. Any Advice?
ttocs on 11/6/2007 16:03:46
what series of PG? i would take a 10 yr old piece over a new one with a warrenty any day, they ain't what they use to be by any means.
gsandha99 on 11/6/2007 18:04:15
thats what ive heard....its a tantrum 500.2 but i think im gonna let that go. I have found a SoundStream Rubicon Class A 5.2 500 Watt Amp and a SoundStream Renoir Class A 200 Watt Amp. Any advice on these? i am running a Type S at 2ohms. And what is Class A?
gsandha99 on 11/6/2007 18:57:41
Also, I already own a Soundstream mc245. its a 5 channell amp with the once channel for a sub. I have a dvc sub that can runs at 2 ohms and im wondering if my soundstream will be 2ohm stable. Does anyone know?
swez on 11/7/2007 06:08:15
I think you are not wanting a Class A amp bud! These are super clean sounding, but have an eff rating of like 35-40%. If you think you are having current drain problems now, this topology will make things even worse later for a sub application.
Here's the manual for the 245:
http://www.soundstream.com/manuals/AMP/sa_mc_d_class%20a/mc140245/mc140245.pdf
From what I see here, this amp is not designed for 2 ohm loads on the sub channel. It can deliver a solid 100 watts @ 4 ohms to the sub channel and 35 x 4 in 5 channel mode. A nice amps for sure, but not for SPL geeks. (SQ geeks yes... SPL Geeks, NO)
Swez
gsandha99 on 11/7/2007 11:18:41
Thanks swez....so the search continues....:(....for an efficient amp to give me 300-400 watts at 2 ohms....and under 200 dollars....
MrBrownstone on 11/7/2007 13:29:08
just a minor interjection here. When looking at amplifier classes, those efficiency ratings are at 100% distortion. ex:
Class A 35% eff is really ~25% @ 1%THD
Class AB 60% eff is really ~45% @ 1%THD
Class D 90% effis really ~78% @ 1%THD
Remember, from 1% to 10% THD, we really won't get much more power out of an amplifier.
If you are looking to power a pair of woofers, Class D (or tripath T or X class) are your best bets for efficiency. They produce very little heat and are designed to be run at very low impedances (like either 2ohm or 1ohm) relative to the other classes.
gsandha99 on 11/7/2007 17:59:01
God...I really hate kenwood. Power sucking vampires.
gsandha99 on 11/7/2007 18:14:49
Can anyone suggest an amp for me? Must be around 200 bucks, Must be class D. And must give me at least 300watts at 2ohms
swez on 11/7/2007 18:24:46
Consider the Alpine MRP-M450:
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=120&i=500MRPM450&tp=115
It's been a solid product for Alpine for a while now and a little web shopping should net you the price you are willing to pay. It's Class D, 2 ohm stable and able to deliver a solid 350 RMS @ 2 ohms and usually a little more. (Max current draw will be ~37A's)
Swez
Ash on 11/7/2007 18:33:20
I thought Kenwood made some decent class D bass amps.
If you could find a good used JBL BP300.1 on ebay, you might be happy with that one. Those series are some of the best amps ever made and they were supposedly underrated. Simple and powerful. I would imagine you should be able to get one for about 100 bucks.
Con is they are still in high demand and you may have to bid or pay a little bit higher for a buy-it-now deal.
gsandha99 on 11/7/2007 18:34:56
Thanks again swez. So you think this will do a better job (more efficient, better sounding) than my Kenwood 8101D?
gsandha99 on 11/7/2007 18:43:07
Oh..I have found that JBL...someone is selling it for 125. I also found a PRecision Power 600.2. its seems amazing, but again not for my needs. I have a 4ohm dvc sub and this amp doesnt seem to efficient. Any advice on it? the guy is selling it for 80 bucks!
Ash on 11/7/2007 19:50:50
The PP amp may be a good deal but will definitely overpower that sub and drink more juice from your electrical system. That is if it's even 2 ohm stable mono. Too much to worry about with that one. Let it pass...
The JBL is a very solid performer is probably puts out a little more than the 300 rms. Very easy on the batt/alt. Dimming should be very minimal if you even see any. I have one and it's a nice small package amp. 1 ohm capable with no power increase, but it's very stable.
The only downside with the JBL is it doesn't have a subsonic filter for ported enclosures. Still that could be fixed with a simple solution (high pass F-Mods). That's if your'e going with ported. Also it doesn't have pre-outs to feed another amp. But, if you have a HU with front/rear rca's, then that's not a problem either.
For sealed it's perfect, not to mention it's right up the Type S DVC 10" alley. If I were you I would go for it.
swez on 11/7/2007 23:44:39
Agreed... the 300.1 from JBL is a solid product. That whole series was built very well, rated @ 12.9 volts and a very good amp in all. (BD-300.1, 600.1 and the real power house 1200.1)
The Kenwood you have now is not a bad amp, but it's a tad bit over-rated in power per CEA-2006 specs. It meets specs at 14.4 volts, but not all cars can deliver that voltage on a full-time basis. You may be asking too much from this amp. For the average user, it's fine. But if push comes to shove, it lacks in clean power when pushed beyond its design limits. (User abuse in most cases)
Swez
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