Hi Guys,
I am trying to figure out whether to get the Red or Yellow top for my car. Its a HOnda CRV 2005. I am running 2 amps. A KAC 8101D that pulls a max of around 40amps and a Soundstream mc245 that pulls around 20 amps i believe.
Currently, with the stock battery, i get dimming...is it really bad? i dont know because i have nothing to compare it too...but it is pretty noticable.....so, what is better to suit my needs? Red or Yellow?
Replies (18)
SQLThump on 10/19/2007 17:29:04
I am not sure what your actuall needs are here, but I can tell you thet the Red Top Optima is definitely a good buy. it changed EVERY aspect of the way my vehicle run, and mostly importantly, did wonders for my electrical system
Victor on 10/20/2007 02:09:59
with 60 amp + stock electricals current draw..
either would be fine, but you will definitely need to get the BIG 3 wiring upgrade done.....
Victor...
gsandha99 on 10/22/2007 10:16:23
I went with the Redtop Guys. Although it didnt fit properly in the stock spot, I managed to get it secure enough...and i gotta tell you....it has eliminated 99% of my dimming.......Its a great Battery. The only thing that is left for me is the last upgrade in the BIG 3 which is the alt to battery. both grounds have been done...But wow...did this battery make all the difference
Ash on 10/22/2007 15:49:56
Exactly in what ways did it help? I've done the Big 3 as well and thought about a possible alt &/or batt upgrade. Didn't really want to spend a whole lot but if it's truly worth it, I'll probably spring for one or both.
gsandha99 on 10/22/2007 17:15:19
I think it depends on the purpose but, i haven upgraded my alt to bat because of the difficulty in getting to the alt.....but even without that, the Optima Redtop is amazing......before, i was having dimming issues, and when my system was pumping, i noticed my car wasnt idling smoothly.
Also, im sure some mental factors play a part. But, even with out the full Big 3 upgrade the red top has solved all those problems...no more dimming....car seems to idle smoother and ive heard its easier on the alt....i got my redtop for 175 cash..brand new...i think it was an ok price...not a steal....
I am thinking to do the alt to bat next week....although i dont need it per se, i think it would compliment the optima well....what car are you looking to put it in? what are your current problems?
SQLThump on 10/22/2007 19:52:04
I must have got a steal on mine... I Paid $100+sales tax.
Great choice on a battery, i had about the same effects when I installed mine in my car as you had.
Ash, I would alos reccommend this battery, but for the cost of $175, you could go to an auto parts store, and get one that would be more comparable to the specs of the Yellow Top, for around $150. Plus one added bonus, you don't have to go to a car audio shop and deal with their salesmen.
swez on 10/23/2007 04:58:04
This is good news as expected. Optima makes a very good set of batteries and will outperform any factory stock bat under most any conditions. Do finish the Big 3 upgrade as keeping your BAT well topped off, is the reason for doing it.
Let's put it this way, a battery is like a 500 gallon storage tank with many hoses drawing water from it as needed. Keeping the tank full at all times is the key. What's the best way to do this?
1. A 1/2" diameter garden hose (200 gallons per hour flow rate)
2. A 2" diameter pipe (1200 gallons per hour flow)
3. A 4" fire hose (5000 gallons per hour)
The larger the fill pipe and its flow rate, the better our prospects to keep the storage tank filled to capacity right? That's why we use larger wires in the Big 3 upgrade. It improves flow rates of power off the ALT to keep the system adequately charged. Yes, there's more to it, but that's pretty much how the "electrical system" works.
Swez
Ash on 10/23/2007 05:04:45
Thump are you saying it's not worth the cost? Back in the days we would just get a higher cranking amp battery. Never dealt with one of the Optimas before. Then again I really don't play my stereo while I'm parked and if I do I turn off the sub as the front stage has just enough bass to not cause a stir with the neighbors.
My batt is kinda small, but there seems to be a lot of smoke in the air on batteries. Some would say get "xxx brand" batt, "it saved my marriage", "got me a raise", "relieved my gout", etc...
From what I understand in simple concept the Optimas are a mix between higher cca/ca batts and deep cycle. But seems like the main advantage is when your alt goes bad you still may have some juice for a while, or when one likes to play their stereo when the car is off.
A high cca/ca 800/1000 batt from the local auto parts store only runs about 90 bucks with core.
What's your take?
gsandha99 on 10/23/2007 12:36:40
The Red Top uses a spiral technology for the lead plates inside which has proved to be more effecient than conventional batteries. This is what gives optima the advantage to pump out more CCA/CA....my Redtop is rated at 800/1000 respectively.
Its a great battery and is cheaper than the yellow top. The reason why my price might seem expensive is because im located in Canada and for some reason, electronics are more expensive here even though our dollar is now higher than the US...go figure...
Also the redtop is made more to replace your primary battery because of its ability to crank out more amps during initial start up whereas the yellow top is more for listening to your audio with the car off or as a reserve bat....
swez on 10/23/2007 12:36:41
That's a good question Ash and I do recall doing some research on batteries a while back. Most people think a battery is a battery is a battery and there is little if any distinction among brands X, Y or Z.
In high output power cells, there are measurable and definable aspects of battery technology that set some batteries well apart from the rest. To get to the root, one looks at many factors.
1. Size of the internal plates used in the battery
2. Number of plates ....
3. Composition of the plates....
4. Type of medium used to move electrons in and out of the plates
5. Charging/depleation rates of a given battery pack
Am sure there is much more too, but the general read I noted was how efficiently a battery can charge, discharge and deliver rated power over a longer cycle of time and hard use. Excide is probably the leading expert in this field and if you had the time, that would be a good place to start.
In a nutshell, there are better mouse traps out there in today's market. Once we look past the hype and marketing BS, the answers are there and can be backed up with test data under industry standard rules and guidelines.
Like most products, there are cost VS benefits to consider too. A general purpose battery will do its job under normal conditions and be fine for most applications. But when we need a Commercial or Industrial grade product that will take the abuse day in and day out, there is a premium price to go along with the premium performance we will get as well.
The Gel Cell technology used in Optima Batteries is very efficient and offers a longer life cycle of rated output as compared to a stock lead/acid battery from WalMart. At 2 x the price, it had better deliver or there would be no market after a few years and Optima, Stinger and Kinetiks would go out of business if they did not live up to their reputations.
Swez ;-)
jamesp on 10/23/2007 15:02:43
Gsand ha99, you are right about the Canadian dollar being stronger than the U S dollar...a recent phenomenon. you can cash in your Canadian bucks for a smooth $1.03 today...but hurryGRIN
SQLThump on 10/23/2007 17:22:00
Ok, that explains a lot on the price.
Ash, I got the battery at a steal of a price I guess. I forget what the retail was for it, but I gotta freind in the sales department of a big box store who cut me a deep discount.
For $100+tax, it is one hell of a battery. I will never use a lead acid battery again after this. Although you may not listen in the car while parked often, damn near everybody will leave their headlights or an interior light once in a while. If left untended, as we all know, it will eventually kill the battery in a matter of time. With the Redtop.I have left all my lights on overnight and had juice to crank her over with with in the morning. Also has taken care of all my dimming issues to date, except on odd days where my car just functions poorly in general.
But, with that being said, it was the ABSOLUTE LAST choice on my list of what gel cell battery to get. I simply couldn't afford anything more expensive at the time (there was a $40 dollar difference, and that was rent money), and the car was suffering from a bad cell, and I refused to settle for anything less than a gel cell, even if it meant waiting another two weeks.
I don't remember specs or exactly why I had ordered them like so, but I wanted the Napa brand gell cell first, then the Checker offering, followed by the Yellow Top, and the Red Top after that. Unfortunately, I didn't get my luck here.
If I remember correctly, the Red Top was probably the smallest in terms of CCA spec and whatnot, and I an really not too fond of the color red. I would reccommend a Gel Cell battery to any vehicle owner, not just people with current draw needs, just with some of the sick features they provide.
For one they're non spillable. A demonstration by the guy at Checker made me scared the ____ out of me for about 10 seconds and amazed me for a few days. This guy just straight knocked the thing over in it's side, without prior warning, to demonstrate non spillability, and I jumped out of the way.
Also, they are not full of acid, so if a car accident takes place, it won't spill everywhere and cause further damage, or endanger skin, explode, blah blah blah. My buddy's Napa branded Gel Cell was destroyed in his accident, but there wasn't anything leaking out of it.
Plus, just knowing your car will always start with damn near everything you throw at it is something that helps me sleep great on really cold snowy nights...
If your considering a new battery, you should probably fork the extra coin and get a gel cell, if your getting a gel cell, might as well spend a few bucks and get a good one too! GRIN
gsandha99 on 10/23/2007 17:44:32
Napa sells a gell cell that has a higher CCA/CA than optima?????
wow...news to me...i wonder how much that one is...i want it...haha....oh well......i guess the redtop will have to do...but i am really curious...whats the name of it and how expensive is it? They would probably have my size aswell.....i should have had more patience :(
SQLThump on 10/23/2007 18:57:16
I am not sure exactly the model name, but they only sell one. It was around $140US for it Again I am not too sure of the details, but it was the one I wanted most 6 months ago when I bought my Redtop. It was half want and half need with this purchase. I had $120 to spend, and not a penny more. I had to get a battery, and thought I had enough to buy the one I wanted, but I didn't and had to make a call to my freind to put at least something through. I did need a battery desperately, (battery was fading out to point of near deadness when all the lights were on at a light) so in terms of a sound decision for vehucle matenance, great choice, but in terms of great battery for car audio, so far I wish for more.
The Redtop is a great battery, don't get me wrong, but I definitely wanted a better one. I will probably keep this one get and get a Yellow Top to suppmement my amps. I would have definitely bought something else if I would have had $20-50 more to spend.
BTW, Ash, you have a GM vehicle correct? This battery is made for common GM sizes (small) with no cost of CCA. Fits like it was made for my Buic, and comes with a few adapters of secure it to the stock mounting points. It's nice. A really good gel cell can cost more than twice the money of a common lead acid high CCA battery though. But at this point I wouldn't have it any other way.
jamesp on 10/24/2007 07:28:55
The Optima red top batteries come in 3 different case sizes and several post configurations. They have from 720 to 800 CCA. The yellow top type also comes in different sizes.
gsandha99 on 10/24/2007 12:44:05
If i am not wrong.....The red top is a good battery for overall performance and for running car audio while you car is on....the only thing the yellow top is better for is running your audio with your car off.....am i correct?
SQLThump on 10/24/2007 16:55:48
Oops my bad, I thought originally that they did lose some juice with smaller batteries, but I figured If my tiny GM unit made the full 800, they all did. Thanks for the correction.
GS, I have heard a lot of myths of the different uses of the yellow vs. red, and honestly, I think either would do well in either application. I heard from my buddy when I was buying my Red Top that the Yellow top was for "discharge only" situations, where current draw is putting the battery close to empty at all times (using huge multi-amp setups, or hydraulics). He also stated that Yellow Top warranties were voided if it was proved that it was used as a primary underhood battery.
I came here do discuss this issue, and people here said it would be fine for under hood use. Although I trust both sources of info greatly, I would go with what CK has to say first, because for one, my buddy works in a shop, and gets his poor mind filled with marketing B.S., and people like Father Sound over here know there stuff better than me and my homie put together multiplied several times.
Who is to say really. At the time, I was thinking of calling customer srevice or something over at Optima, but i decided it really wasn't that important considering I was already packing the Red Top. Draw your own conclusions here........
swez on 10/25/2007 05:53:08
The Red Top is designed for under the hood as a primary start battery and will also buffer extra current demands for medium-high powered audio systems.
The Yellow is a "Deep Cycle" type design and can handle both start and deep discharge applications. The main benefit to the Yellow, it can handle >300 total discharge cycles and come back for more. (Try that with a normal car battery and it will crap out after a only few deep discharges... 3-5 deep discharges are usually enough to kill them)
The Blue Top is a Marine/Industrial type battery. These are special application versions that are used to start heavy marine engines and batteries for Generators.
Optima's website has a lot of good technical details on each version and not much hype in the technical format. I read them all a while back and found them most informative. You may wish to do the same before making a firm choice.
Swez
I am trying to figure out whether to get the Red or Yellow top for my car. Its a HOnda CRV 2005. I am running 2 amps. A KAC 8101D that pulls a max of around 40amps and a Soundstream mc245 that pulls around 20 amps i believe.
Currently, with the stock battery, i get dimming...is it really bad? i dont know because i have nothing to compare it too...but it is pretty noticable.....so, what is better to suit my needs? Red or Yellow?
Replies (18)
SQLThump on 10/19/2007 17:29:04
I am not sure what your actuall needs are here, but I can tell you thet the Red Top Optima is definitely a good buy. it changed EVERY aspect of the way my vehicle run, and mostly importantly, did wonders for my electrical system
Victor on 10/20/2007 02:09:59
with 60 amp + stock electricals current draw..
either would be fine, but you will definitely need to get the BIG 3 wiring upgrade done.....
Victor...
gsandha99 on 10/22/2007 10:16:23
I went with the Redtop Guys. Although it didnt fit properly in the stock spot, I managed to get it secure enough...and i gotta tell you....it has eliminated 99% of my dimming.......Its a great Battery. The only thing that is left for me is the last upgrade in the BIG 3 which is the alt to battery. both grounds have been done...But wow...did this battery make all the difference
Ash on 10/22/2007 15:49:56
Exactly in what ways did it help? I've done the Big 3 as well and thought about a possible alt &/or batt upgrade. Didn't really want to spend a whole lot but if it's truly worth it, I'll probably spring for one or both.
gsandha99 on 10/22/2007 17:15:19
I think it depends on the purpose but, i haven upgraded my alt to bat because of the difficulty in getting to the alt.....but even without that, the Optima Redtop is amazing......before, i was having dimming issues, and when my system was pumping, i noticed my car wasnt idling smoothly.
Also, im sure some mental factors play a part. But, even with out the full Big 3 upgrade the red top has solved all those problems...no more dimming....car seems to idle smoother and ive heard its easier on the alt....i got my redtop for 175 cash..brand new...i think it was an ok price...not a steal....
I am thinking to do the alt to bat next week....although i dont need it per se, i think it would compliment the optima well....what car are you looking to put it in? what are your current problems?
SQLThump on 10/22/2007 19:52:04
I must have got a steal on mine... I Paid $100+sales tax.
Great choice on a battery, i had about the same effects when I installed mine in my car as you had.
Ash, I would alos reccommend this battery, but for the cost of $175, you could go to an auto parts store, and get one that would be more comparable to the specs of the Yellow Top, for around $150. Plus one added bonus, you don't have to go to a car audio shop and deal with their salesmen.
swez on 10/23/2007 04:58:04
This is good news as expected. Optima makes a very good set of batteries and will outperform any factory stock bat under most any conditions. Do finish the Big 3 upgrade as keeping your BAT well topped off, is the reason for doing it.
Let's put it this way, a battery is like a 500 gallon storage tank with many hoses drawing water from it as needed. Keeping the tank full at all times is the key. What's the best way to do this?
1. A 1/2" diameter garden hose (200 gallons per hour flow rate)
2. A 2" diameter pipe (1200 gallons per hour flow)
3. A 4" fire hose (5000 gallons per hour)
The larger the fill pipe and its flow rate, the better our prospects to keep the storage tank filled to capacity right? That's why we use larger wires in the Big 3 upgrade. It improves flow rates of power off the ALT to keep the system adequately charged. Yes, there's more to it, but that's pretty much how the "electrical system" works.
Swez
Ash on 10/23/2007 05:04:45
Thump are you saying it's not worth the cost? Back in the days we would just get a higher cranking amp battery. Never dealt with one of the Optimas before. Then again I really don't play my stereo while I'm parked and if I do I turn off the sub as the front stage has just enough bass to not cause a stir with the neighbors.
My batt is kinda small, but there seems to be a lot of smoke in the air on batteries. Some would say get "xxx brand" batt, "it saved my marriage", "got me a raise", "relieved my gout", etc...
From what I understand in simple concept the Optimas are a mix between higher cca/ca batts and deep cycle. But seems like the main advantage is when your alt goes bad you still may have some juice for a while, or when one likes to play their stereo when the car is off.
A high cca/ca 800/1000 batt from the local auto parts store only runs about 90 bucks with core.
What's your take?
gsandha99 on 10/23/2007 12:36:40
The Red Top uses a spiral technology for the lead plates inside which has proved to be more effecient than conventional batteries. This is what gives optima the advantage to pump out more CCA/CA....my Redtop is rated at 800/1000 respectively.
Its a great battery and is cheaper than the yellow top. The reason why my price might seem expensive is because im located in Canada and for some reason, electronics are more expensive here even though our dollar is now higher than the US...go figure...
Also the redtop is made more to replace your primary battery because of its ability to crank out more amps during initial start up whereas the yellow top is more for listening to your audio with the car off or as a reserve bat....
swez on 10/23/2007 12:36:41
That's a good question Ash and I do recall doing some research on batteries a while back. Most people think a battery is a battery is a battery and there is little if any distinction among brands X, Y or Z.
In high output power cells, there are measurable and definable aspects of battery technology that set some batteries well apart from the rest. To get to the root, one looks at many factors.
1. Size of the internal plates used in the battery
2. Number of plates ....
3. Composition of the plates....
4. Type of medium used to move electrons in and out of the plates
5. Charging/depleation rates of a given battery pack
Am sure there is much more too, but the general read I noted was how efficiently a battery can charge, discharge and deliver rated power over a longer cycle of time and hard use. Excide is probably the leading expert in this field and if you had the time, that would be a good place to start.
In a nutshell, there are better mouse traps out there in today's market. Once we look past the hype and marketing BS, the answers are there and can be backed up with test data under industry standard rules and guidelines.
Like most products, there are cost VS benefits to consider too. A general purpose battery will do its job under normal conditions and be fine for most applications. But when we need a Commercial or Industrial grade product that will take the abuse day in and day out, there is a premium price to go along with the premium performance we will get as well.
The Gel Cell technology used in Optima Batteries is very efficient and offers a longer life cycle of rated output as compared to a stock lead/acid battery from WalMart. At 2 x the price, it had better deliver or there would be no market after a few years and Optima, Stinger and Kinetiks would go out of business if they did not live up to their reputations.
Swez ;-)
jamesp on 10/23/2007 15:02:43
Gsand ha99, you are right about the Canadian dollar being stronger than the U S dollar...a recent phenomenon. you can cash in your Canadian bucks for a smooth $1.03 today...but hurryGRIN
SQLThump on 10/23/2007 17:22:00
Ok, that explains a lot on the price.
Ash, I got the battery at a steal of a price I guess. I forget what the retail was for it, but I gotta freind in the sales department of a big box store who cut me a deep discount.
For $100+tax, it is one hell of a battery. I will never use a lead acid battery again after this. Although you may not listen in the car while parked often, damn near everybody will leave their headlights or an interior light once in a while. If left untended, as we all know, it will eventually kill the battery in a matter of time. With the Redtop.I have left all my lights on overnight and had juice to crank her over with with in the morning. Also has taken care of all my dimming issues to date, except on odd days where my car just functions poorly in general.
But, with that being said, it was the ABSOLUTE LAST choice on my list of what gel cell battery to get. I simply couldn't afford anything more expensive at the time (there was a $40 dollar difference, and that was rent money), and the car was suffering from a bad cell, and I refused to settle for anything less than a gel cell, even if it meant waiting another two weeks.
I don't remember specs or exactly why I had ordered them like so, but I wanted the Napa brand gell cell first, then the Checker offering, followed by the Yellow Top, and the Red Top after that. Unfortunately, I didn't get my luck here.
If I remember correctly, the Red Top was probably the smallest in terms of CCA spec and whatnot, and I an really not too fond of the color red. I would reccommend a Gel Cell battery to any vehicle owner, not just people with current draw needs, just with some of the sick features they provide.
For one they're non spillable. A demonstration by the guy at Checker made me scared the ____ out of me for about 10 seconds and amazed me for a few days. This guy just straight knocked the thing over in it's side, without prior warning, to demonstrate non spillability, and I jumped out of the way.
Also, they are not full of acid, so if a car accident takes place, it won't spill everywhere and cause further damage, or endanger skin, explode, blah blah blah. My buddy's Napa branded Gel Cell was destroyed in his accident, but there wasn't anything leaking out of it.
Plus, just knowing your car will always start with damn near everything you throw at it is something that helps me sleep great on really cold snowy nights...
If your considering a new battery, you should probably fork the extra coin and get a gel cell, if your getting a gel cell, might as well spend a few bucks and get a good one too! GRIN
gsandha99 on 10/23/2007 17:44:32
Napa sells a gell cell that has a higher CCA/CA than optima?????
wow...news to me...i wonder how much that one is...i want it...haha....oh well......i guess the redtop will have to do...but i am really curious...whats the name of it and how expensive is it? They would probably have my size aswell.....i should have had more patience :(
SQLThump on 10/23/2007 18:57:16
I am not sure exactly the model name, but they only sell one. It was around $140US for it Again I am not too sure of the details, but it was the one I wanted most 6 months ago when I bought my Redtop. It was half want and half need with this purchase. I had $120 to spend, and not a penny more. I had to get a battery, and thought I had enough to buy the one I wanted, but I didn't and had to make a call to my freind to put at least something through. I did need a battery desperately, (battery was fading out to point of near deadness when all the lights were on at a light) so in terms of a sound decision for vehucle matenance, great choice, but in terms of great battery for car audio, so far I wish for more.
The Redtop is a great battery, don't get me wrong, but I definitely wanted a better one. I will probably keep this one get and get a Yellow Top to suppmement my amps. I would have definitely bought something else if I would have had $20-50 more to spend.
BTW, Ash, you have a GM vehicle correct? This battery is made for common GM sizes (small) with no cost of CCA. Fits like it was made for my Buic, and comes with a few adapters of secure it to the stock mounting points. It's nice. A really good gel cell can cost more than twice the money of a common lead acid high CCA battery though. But at this point I wouldn't have it any other way.
jamesp on 10/24/2007 07:28:55
The Optima red top batteries come in 3 different case sizes and several post configurations. They have from 720 to 800 CCA. The yellow top type also comes in different sizes.
gsandha99 on 10/24/2007 12:44:05
If i am not wrong.....The red top is a good battery for overall performance and for running car audio while you car is on....the only thing the yellow top is better for is running your audio with your car off.....am i correct?
SQLThump on 10/24/2007 16:55:48
Oops my bad, I thought originally that they did lose some juice with smaller batteries, but I figured If my tiny GM unit made the full 800, they all did. Thanks for the correction.
GS, I have heard a lot of myths of the different uses of the yellow vs. red, and honestly, I think either would do well in either application. I heard from my buddy when I was buying my Red Top that the Yellow top was for "discharge only" situations, where current draw is putting the battery close to empty at all times (using huge multi-amp setups, or hydraulics). He also stated that Yellow Top warranties were voided if it was proved that it was used as a primary underhood battery.
I came here do discuss this issue, and people here said it would be fine for under hood use. Although I trust both sources of info greatly, I would go with what CK has to say first, because for one, my buddy works in a shop, and gets his poor mind filled with marketing B.S., and people like Father Sound over here know there stuff better than me and my homie put together multiplied several times.
Who is to say really. At the time, I was thinking of calling customer srevice or something over at Optima, but i decided it really wasn't that important considering I was already packing the Red Top. Draw your own conclusions here........
swez on 10/25/2007 05:53:08
The Red Top is designed for under the hood as a primary start battery and will also buffer extra current demands for medium-high powered audio systems.
The Yellow is a "Deep Cycle" type design and can handle both start and deep discharge applications. The main benefit to the Yellow, it can handle >300 total discharge cycles and come back for more. (Try that with a normal car battery and it will crap out after a only few deep discharges... 3-5 deep discharges are usually enough to kill them)
The Blue Top is a Marine/Industrial type battery. These are special application versions that are used to start heavy marine engines and batteries for Generators.
Optima's website has a lot of good technical details on each version and not much hype in the technical format. I read them all a while back and found them most informative. You may wish to do the same before making a firm choice.
Swez
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