System:
Pair of tweeters(300max 120WRms) 4 ohms
Front Door panels Pioneer (ts-a1655) 140wmax 4 ohms
6x9 - Pioneer (ts-a6965) 200wmax 4 ohms
equalizer 300 watts 150x2
head unit panasonic cq-dfx983u 50x4 25wrms per channel
I was thinking about THINK using the 4 channels of the Hu to connect my tweeters and door panels each to each channel. i was thinking since i get a bit more wattage out my Equalizer to use it for my 6x9 since its 300wmx. Then i was thinking i can control all my speakers from my equalizer since its enought power for everything that way i can clear out the bass in the equalizer and run all my inside speakers in mids and hights and use my subwoofers for what they are for bass. Right now i dont have the tweeters connected but everything else its in there along with a nice 4gauge wire kit for my JBL600.1 and two infinity 12" reference. So far i got everyone beat around my group and even some around here PROUD. Not insulated yet running it in a sealed box. In MAD need for a more powerful battery. Let me know which of the two decisions is better or if you have further knowledge of a better hookup et me know.
I learned allot from everyone here so thank you and any help as always apreciated. GRIN
Replies (12)
Swez on 08/27/2003 15:11:26
Hey Pap,
Good to see you again... yes the power from your ALT/BAT is getting strained very much form the JBL amp when you push it hard. That amp can pull over 50A. of current in large bass hits. Not too sure I know much about your EQ/amp though. Have any product details (weblink) about it?
Yes, a larger CCA rated battery will deinitely help buffer the bass surges. Your stock battery is probably ~500 CCA. So 750 or more will help a lot!
Also, that stock alt... do you know its ratings? Call the dealership or a good auto parts store to find out. My guess, less than 85A output ???
Finally, you can also squeeze more power flow from Alt by increasing the wire gage size from ALT/BAT and BAT/GND. Stock is probably #8 gage. Suggest dropping to #4 on both wires mentioned.
Finally, if these do not cure or dramatically reduce your electrical starvation issues, a High Output ALT (100A.) will. But take the steps mentioned first, and see how you fare.
NOTE: You may notice some light dimming at idle or low RPM's. Normal as the ALT is only putting out modest current until engine RPM climbs above ~1800. After that, gettiing a full power output from the alt.
Swez
PAPI0513 on 08/27/2003 15:52:33
My eq is a pyramid gold series model 405vl I know is not a major brand or anything just trying it out to see if its useful for me. let me know and thanks for the tip. what do you recommend for the speaker wiring?
Swez on 08/27/2003 20:36:53
A #14/16 gage is generally adequate for modest amps under 75 watts RMS. The #12 get harder to work with as it is bulkier... but effective in high powered amps.
Swez
PS Got a link to Pyramid web site... will check out that amp/EQ for you.
PAPI0513 on 08/27/2003 20:53:09
See thats what I'm talking bout hehehe Swezzz you tha man!!! haha..Listen thanks......but what you think honestly was it a bad investment in that eq? I wanna make sure all my highs run desent...What you think?
Swez on 08/28/2003 06:01:47
Ok wise guy... I found that product. Looks like 60-75 watts RMS x 2 w/ 7 band EQ.... cheap! ($40.00 at etronnics)
That should work for your mids and highs up front and with EQ, good flexibility if the noise is not too bad. Some cheaper amp/EQ's are very noisy (hiss) when intalled... so you'll just have to try it and see.
Not a "quality" piece of gear... but it may work out well enough for now.
Swez
PAPI0513 on 08/28/2003 11:06:47
I'll try it and see what happens thanks really. So you suggest connecting my tweeters door panels and 6x9 to it or just my tweeters and door panels? and then hook my 6x9 to my HU? Also since its not really a quality piece of gear what do you reccomend? I'm open for ideas hell thats how I got to where I'm at now thanks to you guys.
PAPI0513 on 08/28/2003 11:10:29
also you mentioned 60-75watts rms x 2 if i do hook up al the inside speakers to it making it a 4 channel, how does that brek it down in rms per channel? You are allowed to hook up 2 or 4 spekers in it. once again thanks
Swez on 08/28/2003 11:54:49
Most guys run the front speakers (your best gear) of an amp of some power and if you wish to add the tweeters as well, can go door, dash pr A-Pillars. A little experimentation is encouraged to get the best sound in all. Your Pioneers are already what... 2 or 3 way right. So here, this is called and "ambient" tweeter install.
Many also run the rear speakers off the HU as "rear fill" only The dominent channels of your music are up front and the rears just fill in the gaps.
That amp/EQ will probably run both F&R speakers and net maybe 80-100 watts x 2 RMS @ 2 ohms/ch. But you will lose fade control over balanciing F&R speakers. Rear speakers tend to be a bit louder with same power due to location... the rear shelf.
Try what you have for now and see if it is what you want and does the job as noted. If not your cup of tea, then a quality 4 channel and perhaps in dash EQ can be added later.
Looks like the fronts handle maybe 50 watts RMS and the rear a bit higher? I'd go with 50-75 watts RMS/ channel and have extra power for front stage upgrades (Components) at a later date... if you desire.
Swez
PAPI0513 on 08/28/2003 13:12:28
Jbl doesn't have a 4 channel amp that can power that much.any recommendations witha 4 channel amp that runs as well for mids and higs as the jbl600.1 do for subs?
Why would an eq be needed after installing a 4channel amp if I can control it on the amp crossover?
Is it because I can control the signals better in the eq? Just wanting to know I'm learning as I go and it's paying off.
Thanks Swez
Swez on 08/28/2003 15:37:41
JBL does not make a very potent 4 channel amp at the moment that I have read about etc. There are many good ones out there to choose from.... just depends on the power, brand and budget you wish to invest in.
Many of my chorts are trying the US Acoustics line of 1/2/4 channel amps now. We all have found these amps to be very well built, honestly rated and affordable. The speakers you have now, will take 50 - 90 watts per each. So an amp in that general range should be fine now and later.
Have a LOOK:
http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/us_acoustics.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-tH36t71zMQ2/cgi-bin/prodsearch.asp?s=0&cc=01&g=120&est=&search=US+Acoustics
The USX/USB -4065 is 65 x4 RMS @ 4 ohms /ch.
''''''''''''''''''''''''' -4085 is 85 x4 RMS @ 4 ohms/ch.
These amps are a bit underrated and will put out more than the spec sheets state and either will work in your application, if you dial back on the gains to the front channel. If you buy the larger 85 x 4, can always upgrade the front door Coaxials to a nice set of Comps later.
I really like these:
http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/CDT_Audio_Components.html
The CL 61a is a 6.5" comp driver with crossover and for $150.00 a pair... super deal and superior to your present Pioneer coaxials in SQ. If I had a vehicle that could use this size driver up front, I'd buy them ASAP too. I may just do it anyway and modify my present door speakers from 5/4" Comps to these....
Yes, all these amps have crossovers and filters etc. Do you need an EQ? Dunno? Depends on how many features your HU has for tone controls and sound processing.
Personally, I cannot live w/o some EQ as some music sources are mixed well and others are very poorly mixed. The EQ gives flexibility to cut/boost various slices of the audiable band, to tone down or bring up certain parts of the music.... Guitar, bass, Vocals, Drum kit, Synth, Piano, horns and strings etc.
If you have Windows Media Player, there is a built in EQ function there and if you play with it a while.... you'll see/hear what I mean... BIG DIFFERENCE in mixing capability.
OK, looked at the HU you have and NO EQ... just bass, treble, fade and balance. The good news... it has 5.0 Volt preamp outs for RCA's to subs and full range amps. This HU will net ~20-25 watts RMS x 4 with internal amps. Not bad... but your subs will definitely overpower the interior speaks is you choose to kick up the bass amp gains.
In short, if you like what EQ can do for your Home/Computer gear, you'll love what it can do for your car.
Comments?
Swez
PS Learning anything new?
PAPI0513 on 08/28/2003 16:47:32
Learning allot as a matter of fact. Right now budget is an issue as always so it might take me a while. I checked them out and the door panels you suggested over my pioneers sound and look great for a great deal maybe ill keep an eye on them and purchase them at a later time. I see the use of an eq understandable i see it's use now. For now ill play with what I have and see it's different effect on each hook up. In the mean time while i save ill add up your choices and do more research for a future use.
once again thanks Swez
Swez on 08/29/2003 13:55:11
No problem if you have to wait for your budget to meet your wish list... we all have that issue here.
Glad to see you are realling thinking this through and willing to entertain new and better concepts in the future. That's why we call it Club knowledge... we share what we learn and many can benefit from our past efforts and mistakes. If we learn from our boo boos, it's worth something to avoid later.
Keep up the good work and soon, you can have my chair on this board... no, am not leaving... but more techs are always welcome.
Swez HAPPY
Pair of tweeters(300max 120WRms) 4 ohms
Front Door panels Pioneer (ts-a1655) 140wmax 4 ohms
6x9 - Pioneer (ts-a6965) 200wmax 4 ohms
equalizer 300 watts 150x2
head unit panasonic cq-dfx983u 50x4 25wrms per channel
I was thinking about THINK using the 4 channels of the Hu to connect my tweeters and door panels each to each channel. i was thinking since i get a bit more wattage out my Equalizer to use it for my 6x9 since its 300wmx. Then i was thinking i can control all my speakers from my equalizer since its enought power for everything that way i can clear out the bass in the equalizer and run all my inside speakers in mids and hights and use my subwoofers for what they are for bass. Right now i dont have the tweeters connected but everything else its in there along with a nice 4gauge wire kit for my JBL600.1 and two infinity 12" reference. So far i got everyone beat around my group and even some around here PROUD. Not insulated yet running it in a sealed box. In MAD need for a more powerful battery. Let me know which of the two decisions is better or if you have further knowledge of a better hookup et me know.
I learned allot from everyone here so thank you and any help as always apreciated. GRIN
Replies (12)
Swez on 08/27/2003 15:11:26
Hey Pap,
Good to see you again... yes the power from your ALT/BAT is getting strained very much form the JBL amp when you push it hard. That amp can pull over 50A. of current in large bass hits. Not too sure I know much about your EQ/amp though. Have any product details (weblink) about it?
Yes, a larger CCA rated battery will deinitely help buffer the bass surges. Your stock battery is probably ~500 CCA. So 750 or more will help a lot!
Also, that stock alt... do you know its ratings? Call the dealership or a good auto parts store to find out. My guess, less than 85A output ???
Finally, you can also squeeze more power flow from Alt by increasing the wire gage size from ALT/BAT and BAT/GND. Stock is probably #8 gage. Suggest dropping to #4 on both wires mentioned.
Finally, if these do not cure or dramatically reduce your electrical starvation issues, a High Output ALT (100A.) will. But take the steps mentioned first, and see how you fare.
NOTE: You may notice some light dimming at idle or low RPM's. Normal as the ALT is only putting out modest current until engine RPM climbs above ~1800. After that, gettiing a full power output from the alt.
Swez
PAPI0513 on 08/27/2003 15:52:33
My eq is a pyramid gold series model 405vl I know is not a major brand or anything just trying it out to see if its useful for me. let me know and thanks for the tip. what do you recommend for the speaker wiring?
Swez on 08/27/2003 20:36:53
A #14/16 gage is generally adequate for modest amps under 75 watts RMS. The #12 get harder to work with as it is bulkier... but effective in high powered amps.
Swez
PS Got a link to Pyramid web site... will check out that amp/EQ for you.
PAPI0513 on 08/27/2003 20:53:09
See thats what I'm talking bout hehehe Swezzz you tha man!!! haha..Listen thanks......but what you think honestly was it a bad investment in that eq? I wanna make sure all my highs run desent...What you think?
Swez on 08/28/2003 06:01:47
Ok wise guy... I found that product. Looks like 60-75 watts RMS x 2 w/ 7 band EQ.... cheap! ($40.00 at etronnics)
That should work for your mids and highs up front and with EQ, good flexibility if the noise is not too bad. Some cheaper amp/EQ's are very noisy (hiss) when intalled... so you'll just have to try it and see.
Not a "quality" piece of gear... but it may work out well enough for now.
Swez
PAPI0513 on 08/28/2003 11:06:47
I'll try it and see what happens thanks really. So you suggest connecting my tweeters door panels and 6x9 to it or just my tweeters and door panels? and then hook my 6x9 to my HU? Also since its not really a quality piece of gear what do you reccomend? I'm open for ideas hell thats how I got to where I'm at now thanks to you guys.
PAPI0513 on 08/28/2003 11:10:29
also you mentioned 60-75watts rms x 2 if i do hook up al the inside speakers to it making it a 4 channel, how does that brek it down in rms per channel? You are allowed to hook up 2 or 4 spekers in it. once again thanks
Swez on 08/28/2003 11:54:49
Most guys run the front speakers (your best gear) of an amp of some power and if you wish to add the tweeters as well, can go door, dash pr A-Pillars. A little experimentation is encouraged to get the best sound in all. Your Pioneers are already what... 2 or 3 way right. So here, this is called and "ambient" tweeter install.
Many also run the rear speakers off the HU as "rear fill" only The dominent channels of your music are up front and the rears just fill in the gaps.
That amp/EQ will probably run both F&R speakers and net maybe 80-100 watts x 2 RMS @ 2 ohms/ch. But you will lose fade control over balanciing F&R speakers. Rear speakers tend to be a bit louder with same power due to location... the rear shelf.
Try what you have for now and see if it is what you want and does the job as noted. If not your cup of tea, then a quality 4 channel and perhaps in dash EQ can be added later.
Looks like the fronts handle maybe 50 watts RMS and the rear a bit higher? I'd go with 50-75 watts RMS/ channel and have extra power for front stage upgrades (Components) at a later date... if you desire.
Swez
PAPI0513 on 08/28/2003 13:12:28
Jbl doesn't have a 4 channel amp that can power that much.any recommendations witha 4 channel amp that runs as well for mids and higs as the jbl600.1 do for subs?
Why would an eq be needed after installing a 4channel amp if I can control it on the amp crossover?
Is it because I can control the signals better in the eq? Just wanting to know I'm learning as I go and it's paying off.
Thanks Swez
Swez on 08/28/2003 15:37:41
JBL does not make a very potent 4 channel amp at the moment that I have read about etc. There are many good ones out there to choose from.... just depends on the power, brand and budget you wish to invest in.
Many of my chorts are trying the US Acoustics line of 1/2/4 channel amps now. We all have found these amps to be very well built, honestly rated and affordable. The speakers you have now, will take 50 - 90 watts per each. So an amp in that general range should be fine now and later.
Have a LOOK:
http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/us_acoustics.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-tH36t71zMQ2/cgi-bin/prodsearch.asp?s=0&cc=01&g=120&est=&search=US+Acoustics
The USX/USB -4065 is 65 x4 RMS @ 4 ohms /ch.
''''''''''''''''''''''''' -4085 is 85 x4 RMS @ 4 ohms/ch.
These amps are a bit underrated and will put out more than the spec sheets state and either will work in your application, if you dial back on the gains to the front channel. If you buy the larger 85 x 4, can always upgrade the front door Coaxials to a nice set of Comps later.
I really like these:
http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/CDT_Audio_Components.html
The CL 61a is a 6.5" comp driver with crossover and for $150.00 a pair... super deal and superior to your present Pioneer coaxials in SQ. If I had a vehicle that could use this size driver up front, I'd buy them ASAP too. I may just do it anyway and modify my present door speakers from 5/4" Comps to these....
Yes, all these amps have crossovers and filters etc. Do you need an EQ? Dunno? Depends on how many features your HU has for tone controls and sound processing.
Personally, I cannot live w/o some EQ as some music sources are mixed well and others are very poorly mixed. The EQ gives flexibility to cut/boost various slices of the audiable band, to tone down or bring up certain parts of the music.... Guitar, bass, Vocals, Drum kit, Synth, Piano, horns and strings etc.
If you have Windows Media Player, there is a built in EQ function there and if you play with it a while.... you'll see/hear what I mean... BIG DIFFERENCE in mixing capability.
OK, looked at the HU you have and NO EQ... just bass, treble, fade and balance. The good news... it has 5.0 Volt preamp outs for RCA's to subs and full range amps. This HU will net ~20-25 watts RMS x 4 with internal amps. Not bad... but your subs will definitely overpower the interior speaks is you choose to kick up the bass amp gains.
In short, if you like what EQ can do for your Home/Computer gear, you'll love what it can do for your car.
Comments?
Swez
PS Learning anything new?
PAPI0513 on 08/28/2003 16:47:32
Learning allot as a matter of fact. Right now budget is an issue as always so it might take me a while. I checked them out and the door panels you suggested over my pioneers sound and look great for a great deal maybe ill keep an eye on them and purchase them at a later time. I see the use of an eq understandable i see it's use now. For now ill play with what I have and see it's different effect on each hook up. In the mean time while i save ill add up your choices and do more research for a future use.
once again thanks Swez
Swez on 08/29/2003 13:55:11
No problem if you have to wait for your budget to meet your wish list... we all have that issue here.
Glad to see you are realling thinking this through and willing to entertain new and better concepts in the future. That's why we call it Club knowledge... we share what we learn and many can benefit from our past efforts and mistakes. If we learn from our boo boos, it's worth something to avoid later.
Keep up the good work and soon, you can have my chair on this board... no, am not leaving... but more techs are always welcome.
Swez HAPPY
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