I recently bought a 1997 Cavalier Z24 and looking into putting a nice system in it..
One problem is that I dont know a whole lot about car audio..
Everything is stock from the alternator to the rims..
Can anyone list a good combination for mostly rap and some rock???
Anything at all will be very much appreciated!!!!!!!
specs of the car is here in case you need it
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z187/Chevrolet_Cavalier%20Z24/default.aspx
I need a list of everything so I can bring it to get installed
I need speakers, Sub, amp, capacitor, head unit, cross over ( if needed ), wires, everything
and I dont really have a spending limit probably not over 800$ though
Replies (9)
ttocs on 10/3/2007 18:02:42
what kind of music do ya listen to?
iXvXi on 10/3/2007 20:41:55
like I said Mostly rap and some rock
swez on 10/3/2007 23:03:23
As an overview, this vehicle has one key limitation, the 4x6" front speakers are lame. This format is fine for decent Midrange and a Tweeter, but you'll have to rely on the 6x9 rear speakers for MidBass. The subwoofer will give the deep bass many like for Rap, Hip Hop and other bass heavy material.
Here's a wide list of products that fit your car as is:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-7ac4sO6oyf2/app/car/mycar.aspx
May I suggest Alpine, Kenwood, Pioneer and JVC brands for your new dash player? Look at the features you like and think will meet the needs today and later too. (There's always things to add later when the bug really bites) Most $200.00 players, (Padio/CD = HU = Head Unit) will get you in the game and built to last.
As for speakers, consider good quality 2-way Coaxial speakers for the front and rear right now. Power handling is important to a degree, but clarity and fit are also important. Depending on your long-term goals and budget, amping these speakers would be a big improvement over just HU amps. We can guide you along as needed here.
Bass Engine: This is the part that newbies need to pay attention and shop wisely. Larger wattage subs and amps are not only expensive, but they also cost money in power upgrades later. "If you can't pay the fee, don't do the deed."
Here a solid 400 - 600 watts and efficient sub(s) will do the job very well and can thump pretty hard when you what that. Again, more guidance to come later.
For now, do some browsing at Crutchfield to get feel for what's out there. Cheaper prices are available on most any given products they offer, (Often full retail, but great service too) and we can show you bargins once the product mix is determined.
Finally, think of this as a "marathon" and not a "sprint". To get the best bang for your bucks, it takes careful planning and knowing where to get the best deals on your gear. We can help there too.
Comments?
Swez
PS Welcome to CK
PSS Forget the hype and ill-advice that often comes from well-intended buddies and the "Big Box Stores". There's lots of bad info being passed around as Gospel. We don't sell anything here and the CK team is well able to put a great package together for those who are willing to listen, learn and follow directions well.
iXvXi on 10/4/2007 07:09:41
Wow that really helped :)
The web site you listed was a huge help.. I had no clue what size speakers I needed and all that good stuff..
Thank you soo much and Im going to play around with it and see what I can come up with..
The one thing is I dont really know what can go together.. for example I read at another web site..Make sure the amplifier can deliver more power than the speaker can handle. This may sound unlogical. When a speaker gets more power than it can handle it will sound bad but won't be damaged immediately. When an amplifier has to deliver more power than it can, it will damage speakers quickly. Makes sense now?
Theres a lot of stuff like that ^^^ and its hard to go through all of them
I dont want to purchase a 1000w amp and have a 200w peak speakers..
There has to be something im missing..I think im just over looking it
Ash on 10/4/2007 09:53:02
4x6 up front isn't so bad as it still is open up to opt for a plate speaker. About as close as you can get to a component set sound in a easy to install package. With the right brand, good sound with decent handling and output is capable.
The Infinity Reference series 4x6" plate has always been a well liked set. Pioneer makes a tried and trued plate as well. Finding a matching 6x9" set should be very easy and keep tonal quality even front and rear.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=15360
http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/727
cplkittle on 10/4/2007 11:54:53
The subject of matching the power of an amplifier to a speaker is a difficult and often controversial topic.
Bottom line, try to match the RMS of the amp to the RMS of the speaker. Maximum wattage is irrelevant despite the advertisements and sales pitches.
The reason underpowering a speaker damages it is because most people will turn a 200 watt amp wide open to try to power a 400 watt sub. The amplifier is overworked and sends a dirty, clipped signal to the speaker. A clipped signal sends square waves to the speaker instead of smooth clean rounded sine waves. What this does is cause the speaker to overheat and the voice coils either short or warp. A speaker cools its voice coil by the movement of the speaker cone sucking air across the coil everytime it moves up, then blows the hot air out when it moves back down. An unclipped signal allows the speaker to move smoothly up and down. A clipped wave sends the cone up, then pauses, then down, then pause, up, pause, down, pause. The pauses cause the coil to heat up more and at the same time air is not moving across the coil. Speakers are very delicate machines. They can perform surprisingly well when properly powered and in the correct enclosure (subs).
Some math for you to ponder....
Amps X Volts = Watts (This is the law)
An amplifier that has a 25 amp fuse will only produce 300 watts max at 12 volts ( 25 x 12 = 300 )
When your car is running, it can produce up to 14.5 volts. At that voltage the amplifier can produce 362.5 watts max.
Most companies say max power is twice the RMS power. (500w RMS, 1000w peak) Mathematically, RMS is 70% of max power.
If we go back to our 300 watt amplifier, it should be rated as 210 watts RMS, 300 watts peak. However most companies will use the 210 as RMS and double that to advertise 420 watts peak power. That is why it is so important to match RMS on speakers and amplifiers.
Many many companies will overrate their products to sell them.. for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Visonik-V318XT-1000-Watt-Mono-Subwoofer-Car-Amp-NR_W0QQitemZ110175012541QQihZ001QQcategoryZ64570QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This is a visonic V318XT 1000 watt amplifier. Do you see the two clear fuses in the picture? Clear or white is the color for 25 amp fuses. Let's do some math. 1000 watts divided by 50 amps = 20 volts. Can your car produce 20 volts? No.
This amplifier also boasts 800 watts RMS. Also not true.
14 volts x 50 amps = 700 watts peak
700 watts x 70% = 490 watts RMS
Then there is the issue of efficiency. This is a monoblock amplifier (single channel). Most monoblock amplifiers are only 80% efficient meaning they lose 20% of the power they consume to heat. So if efficiency is taken into consideration, the amp is now only 392 watts RMS, 560 watts peak. See how fun this is?
There are no laws governing how an amplifier is rated or how outrageous they can go with their ratings. It is really sad because most people don't know the difference. If you ask us before you buy anything, we will give you an honest opinion of the quality of the amplifier.
swez on 10/4/2007 18:49:44
Hehe, if this poor guy's head is not spinning yet, it will be with a few more technical posts and formulations! GRIN
Kit is right on all counts and what really matters most here, match the RMS, (Continous) power of the speakers to the amps used. It is better to have a slightly stronger amp than the speakers are rated for.
Examples:
A 50 watt RMS speaker will be fine with a properly tuned 60-75 watt RMS amp channel.
Conversely, a speaker that can handle 200 watts RMS and is powered by a heavily overdriven signal, (Heavy Clipping) at 100 watts can be very hard on a robust speaker.
For now, just browse the Crutch site for general products you like and are in your overall budget. We'll help you match things up to avoid confusion or buying junk, only having to rip it out later.
If you are brave, patient and have a few basic tools on hand, this install is not anything to fret over. (Maybe having the HU installed by skilled hands is good) But the rest of the work is doable by most guys who have a good handle on mechanical things and some wiring tips. That would save a lot on labor and give you better gear choices too.
Think it over as we, (CK techs) have done this with hundreds of readers with very good success. You can even pick a personal coach and work one-on-one with them. (Just offer a gratuity and/or site donation would be fine)
Swez
iXvXi on 10/5/2007 06:34:35
Haha.. Yeah id say im confused a little
but it seems to help.. for all of the technical words I dont get I use a 12v Dictionary GRIN
swez on 10/5/2007 17:52:50
Yeah, it's a steep learning curve in the beginning for sure. We use a lot of jargon and shorthand here to save time. The 12v Dictionary is pretty conprhensive, thanks to Victor.
If you get stuck, ask for the newbie version of info and we'll break it down for ya.
Swez
One problem is that I dont know a whole lot about car audio..
Everything is stock from the alternator to the rims..
Can anyone list a good combination for mostly rap and some rock???
Anything at all will be very much appreciated!!!!!!!
specs of the car is here in case you need it
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z187/Chevrolet_Cavalier%20Z24/default.aspx
I need a list of everything so I can bring it to get installed
I need speakers, Sub, amp, capacitor, head unit, cross over ( if needed ), wires, everything
and I dont really have a spending limit probably not over 800$ though
Replies (9)
ttocs on 10/3/2007 18:02:42
what kind of music do ya listen to?
iXvXi on 10/3/2007 20:41:55
like I said Mostly rap and some rock
swez on 10/3/2007 23:03:23
As an overview, this vehicle has one key limitation, the 4x6" front speakers are lame. This format is fine for decent Midrange and a Tweeter, but you'll have to rely on the 6x9 rear speakers for MidBass. The subwoofer will give the deep bass many like for Rap, Hip Hop and other bass heavy material.
Here's a wide list of products that fit your car as is:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-7ac4sO6oyf2/app/car/mycar.aspx
May I suggest Alpine, Kenwood, Pioneer and JVC brands for your new dash player? Look at the features you like and think will meet the needs today and later too. (There's always things to add later when the bug really bites) Most $200.00 players, (Padio/CD = HU = Head Unit) will get you in the game and built to last.
As for speakers, consider good quality 2-way Coaxial speakers for the front and rear right now. Power handling is important to a degree, but clarity and fit are also important. Depending on your long-term goals and budget, amping these speakers would be a big improvement over just HU amps. We can guide you along as needed here.
Bass Engine: This is the part that newbies need to pay attention and shop wisely. Larger wattage subs and amps are not only expensive, but they also cost money in power upgrades later. "If you can't pay the fee, don't do the deed."
Here a solid 400 - 600 watts and efficient sub(s) will do the job very well and can thump pretty hard when you what that. Again, more guidance to come later.
For now, do some browsing at Crutchfield to get feel for what's out there. Cheaper prices are available on most any given products they offer, (Often full retail, but great service too) and we can show you bargins once the product mix is determined.
Finally, think of this as a "marathon" and not a "sprint". To get the best bang for your bucks, it takes careful planning and knowing where to get the best deals on your gear. We can help there too.
Comments?
Swez
PS Welcome to CK
PSS Forget the hype and ill-advice that often comes from well-intended buddies and the "Big Box Stores". There's lots of bad info being passed around as Gospel. We don't sell anything here and the CK team is well able to put a great package together for those who are willing to listen, learn and follow directions well.
iXvXi on 10/4/2007 07:09:41
Wow that really helped :)
The web site you listed was a huge help.. I had no clue what size speakers I needed and all that good stuff..
Thank you soo much and Im going to play around with it and see what I can come up with..
The one thing is I dont really know what can go together.. for example I read at another web site..Make sure the amplifier can deliver more power than the speaker can handle. This may sound unlogical. When a speaker gets more power than it can handle it will sound bad but won't be damaged immediately. When an amplifier has to deliver more power than it can, it will damage speakers quickly. Makes sense now?
Theres a lot of stuff like that ^^^ and its hard to go through all of them
I dont want to purchase a 1000w amp and have a 200w peak speakers..
There has to be something im missing..I think im just over looking it
Ash on 10/4/2007 09:53:02
4x6 up front isn't so bad as it still is open up to opt for a plate speaker. About as close as you can get to a component set sound in a easy to install package. With the right brand, good sound with decent handling and output is capable.
The Infinity Reference series 4x6" plate has always been a well liked set. Pioneer makes a tried and trued plate as well. Finding a matching 6x9" set should be very easy and keep tonal quality even front and rear.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=15360
http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/727
cplkittle on 10/4/2007 11:54:53
The subject of matching the power of an amplifier to a speaker is a difficult and often controversial topic.
Bottom line, try to match the RMS of the amp to the RMS of the speaker. Maximum wattage is irrelevant despite the advertisements and sales pitches.
The reason underpowering a speaker damages it is because most people will turn a 200 watt amp wide open to try to power a 400 watt sub. The amplifier is overworked and sends a dirty, clipped signal to the speaker. A clipped signal sends square waves to the speaker instead of smooth clean rounded sine waves. What this does is cause the speaker to overheat and the voice coils either short or warp. A speaker cools its voice coil by the movement of the speaker cone sucking air across the coil everytime it moves up, then blows the hot air out when it moves back down. An unclipped signal allows the speaker to move smoothly up and down. A clipped wave sends the cone up, then pauses, then down, then pause, up, pause, down, pause. The pauses cause the coil to heat up more and at the same time air is not moving across the coil. Speakers are very delicate machines. They can perform surprisingly well when properly powered and in the correct enclosure (subs).
Some math for you to ponder....
Amps X Volts = Watts (This is the law)
An amplifier that has a 25 amp fuse will only produce 300 watts max at 12 volts ( 25 x 12 = 300 )
When your car is running, it can produce up to 14.5 volts. At that voltage the amplifier can produce 362.5 watts max.
Most companies say max power is twice the RMS power. (500w RMS, 1000w peak) Mathematically, RMS is 70% of max power.
If we go back to our 300 watt amplifier, it should be rated as 210 watts RMS, 300 watts peak. However most companies will use the 210 as RMS and double that to advertise 420 watts peak power. That is why it is so important to match RMS on speakers and amplifiers.
Many many companies will overrate their products to sell them.. for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Visonik-V318XT-1000-Watt-Mono-Subwoofer-Car-Amp-NR_W0QQitemZ110175012541QQihZ001QQcategoryZ64570QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This is a visonic V318XT 1000 watt amplifier. Do you see the two clear fuses in the picture? Clear or white is the color for 25 amp fuses. Let's do some math. 1000 watts divided by 50 amps = 20 volts. Can your car produce 20 volts? No.
This amplifier also boasts 800 watts RMS. Also not true.
14 volts x 50 amps = 700 watts peak
700 watts x 70% = 490 watts RMS
Then there is the issue of efficiency. This is a monoblock amplifier (single channel). Most monoblock amplifiers are only 80% efficient meaning they lose 20% of the power they consume to heat. So if efficiency is taken into consideration, the amp is now only 392 watts RMS, 560 watts peak. See how fun this is?
There are no laws governing how an amplifier is rated or how outrageous they can go with their ratings. It is really sad because most people don't know the difference. If you ask us before you buy anything, we will give you an honest opinion of the quality of the amplifier.
swez on 10/4/2007 18:49:44
Hehe, if this poor guy's head is not spinning yet, it will be with a few more technical posts and formulations! GRIN
Kit is right on all counts and what really matters most here, match the RMS, (Continous) power of the speakers to the amps used. It is better to have a slightly stronger amp than the speakers are rated for.
Examples:
A 50 watt RMS speaker will be fine with a properly tuned 60-75 watt RMS amp channel.
Conversely, a speaker that can handle 200 watts RMS and is powered by a heavily overdriven signal, (Heavy Clipping) at 100 watts can be very hard on a robust speaker.
For now, just browse the Crutch site for general products you like and are in your overall budget. We'll help you match things up to avoid confusion or buying junk, only having to rip it out later.
If you are brave, patient and have a few basic tools on hand, this install is not anything to fret over. (Maybe having the HU installed by skilled hands is good) But the rest of the work is doable by most guys who have a good handle on mechanical things and some wiring tips. That would save a lot on labor and give you better gear choices too.
Think it over as we, (CK techs) have done this with hundreds of readers with very good success. You can even pick a personal coach and work one-on-one with them. (Just offer a gratuity and/or site donation would be fine)
Swez
iXvXi on 10/5/2007 06:34:35
Haha.. Yeah id say im confused a little
but it seems to help.. for all of the technical words I dont get I use a 12v Dictionary GRIN
swez on 10/5/2007 17:52:50
Yeah, it's a steep learning curve in the beginning for sure. We use a lot of jargon and shorthand here to save time. The 12v Dictionary is pretty conprhensive, thanks to Victor.
If you get stuck, ask for the newbie version of info and we'll break it down for ya.
Swez
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