Okay, so I've got a wicked bad alternator whine coming through the front door speakers in my car (ONLY the front door speakers) when the car is running. I had the stereo installed for about three months and it worked perfectly, no noise or anything, and then one day I washed my car at a car wash and the noise started and hasn't stopped since (about a month later). The noise varies in volume while I drive...sometimes it's not too loud, then all of a sudden it will become loud again. It does consistently get louder when I use the electric windows, however, that's the only electric accessory that make the noise worse.
Here's my setup:
Audiobahn A4004V 4 Channel Amp
1 10" sub running off of channels 1 and 2 bridged
2 5 1/4" speakers (front doors) running off of channels 3 and 4 (stereo)
Pioneer in-dash CD player - powering the rear speakers
I've checked the ground on the amp, CD player, and battery...none of that seemed to help. Also, checked the patch cables by running a new cable back to the amp over a different route...didn't help either. When I disconnect the input cables from the amp the noise disappears, so I tried an in-line RCA noise filter...didn't fix it. Also, I tried grounding the CD player and amp at the same spot...didn't help either. I pulled the CD player out of its slot, to see if noise was being radiated into the system there...didn't help.
Basically, I followed all of the steps on the noise suppression guide on Crutchfield Advisor's website, and none seemed to fix the problem. About the only thing that I can think of is that my alternator is going bad, and that's what's introducing the noise into the system. Anybody have any ideas about what's going on? I'm about to say screw it and rip out my stereo...no stereo is better than one with that annoying alternator whine.
Replies (15)
swez on 09/29/2007 22:00:36
Yes, you have hit all the basics so far and this one may need a few more test steps as well.
Do your have an I-pod, MP3 player or some other music source that has a headphone jack in it? If yes, try this:
1. Make an adapter cable with a headphone jack on one end and dual RCA cables on the other
2. Unplug RCA's at amp and plug in your remote player to the front channels of the amp
3. Play some music and use the volume control on your remote player to get some volume/SPL level from the amp
If the noise goes away, in this test, the amp is OK. This points to noise coming from upstream RCA's, HU issues or power line is too close to your RCA cables.
If the noise is still present, either the power and signal cables are too close or the amp ground is not as good as it needs to be. (Bare metal to floor pan in trunk.
Your front speakers... are they Component type speakers with crossovers mounted inside the door panels?
Say more after your testing,
Swez
PS Alternators have some degree of noise supression in the regulator circuit which is often inside the ALT casing. If the filter goes bad, the regulator can be replaced as a stand alone part or replace the ALT.
Also, when grounding HU and amps, we need a clean, bare metal connection to the floor pan for both the HU and amp(s). DO NOT ground Aftermarket HU's to the wiring harness in the dash.
brettlar85 on 09/29/2007 23:54:46
Thanks for the quick reply, swez. I hooked up my laptop to the RCA inputs for the front channels and the noise disappeared, so I guess that means the noise is coming upstream. I currently have the HU grounded with the factory harness, but I tried grounding it at the same location that the amp was grounded at, and that didn't seem to make a difference, so that leads me to believe that the the ground at the CD player isn't a problem, but I definitely could be wrong still.
The front speaker are Alpine Type-R coax speakers with external cross-overs mounted in the doors. Could there be a problem with those? The thing that confuses me is that when I hooked my laptop up to the amp, the noise disappeared., and the speakers worked fine, so therefore, the noise has to be coming from somewhere upstream, right?
What could be some of my next steps to take to diagnose the problem?
Thanks!
swez on 09/30/2007 00:09:32
Yep, the noise if coming from upstream and your speakers and amp are AOK.
Change the ground on the HU from factory harness to a clean, dedicated bare metal ground and see if that helps. Factory harness grounds are also connected to the dash panel displays and such. Sometimes they work fine for a while and then the noise hits later. (We see this one a lot)
What you have here is a classic case of "Ground Loop" noise. It's very common and dedicated grounding usually cures this one. You may have to extend the ground wire from the HU a bit, but once a solid ground is made, the noise should go away. If not, we have to go deeper.
FYI: Some of the newer Pioneer HU's have a glitch that can be repaired by the user. The RCA's are not grouding properly and a manual ground to the RCA's will often fix that too.
Cheers,
Swez
brettlar85 on 09/30/2007 00:35:15
How would I ground the RCA's manually? And also, would it hurt to ground the HU directly to the battery's ground terminal? I figure that way, you don't have to worry about whether your ground is clean enough, instead you go right to the source ( or end, I guess).
cplkittle on 09/30/2007 01:12:29
First, reground the HU to the chassis. Grounding it to the battery will require too much wire. Short grounds are better for eliminating noise (this applies to HU and amps). Ground to the battery also opens the door to other problems such as if the amplifier loses ground or has less of a ground than the HU, it will try to ground through the radio.
take a 12" piece of ~16ga wire and strip off 6".
wrap the 6" of bare wire around the outer part of the RCAs where they connect to the HU. You can then wrap this with tape or add a little solder to hold the wire in place. Don't solder the RCAs permanently to the HU though.
tap into the radio ground wire and attach the other end of the new RCA ground there.
swez on 09/30/2007 13:17:43
Ahhh, that' a timely tip! Care to post that into our FAQ there Kit?
(I wondered how some installers do this one well. Easy, simple, no special tools needed either. Instead of electrical tape, would a small wire tie do the job well enough?
(Tape gets slimey when it gets too warm) No tape residue to clean off later... just a nip with the wire cutters or sharp blade and the tie is gone w/o the mess)
Swez
trunkisloud on 09/30/2007 15:08:28
yea ive had the rca ground issue a few times....easy fix as stated...dont know why i didnt think of it when i read this post especially since he has a pioneer hu
cplkittle on 09/30/2007 16:38:46
I guess you can use a tie strap, just don't tighten it too tight. THe inside of the radio where the RCAs attach are just solder joints, and they are independent, so tie strapping them together could break them if you are not careful.
I always use just a touch of solder.
You can go a little further and strip back the outer layer of the RCAs if they are cheap RCAs. Some have double or triple shielding and the ground or outside of the RCA is actually a small wire ran twisted along with the inside positive terminal of the RCA.
(twisted pair). You have to know what kind of cables you have before stripping them back to attach there.
Instead of posting this as a FAQ, I am going to pass this off to trunkisloud to start a new topic and get everyone's input on how to stop alternator whine. Once you find out all the causes and how to combat them, write a DIY article to be posted in your name. This will be a huge step toward getting the gold medal you mentioned earlier this week.
swez on 09/30/2007 16:50:07
Yep, that's probably the last step for Trunk to get his "Bling".
Trunk, when writing a DIY article, it would be best to do a draft and post it on the main board for other Golds to review, comment and suggest edits/revisions. Once that is done, you can submit it to Walt for the DIY feature articles. (We'll help ya)
The FYI articles are not screened by Walt and are directly posted to that section of the board.
Swez
brettlar85 on 09/30/2007 18:56:34
PROBLEM SOLVED!!! Luckily, grounding the RCA's did the trick. I've just got the wires taped now, but I plan on soldering them to RCA's semi-permanently for a more permanent solution. Thanks so much for your help guys, you have no idea how much aggravation you have saved me!
trunkisloud on 09/30/2007 19:56:46
ok so let me get this right. I make a topic asking people about the different experiences they have had with alternator whine. after a reasonable amount of replies i take the info at hand and compile it into an article and post it on the forum. then the golds read it and make suggestions and comments to make it better. after that we make the necessary changes (if needed) and submit it to the big man.?
dude ....i can do this.
hey swez...do you still use yahoo messenger?? if so can i holla at you on there when you get a chance?
cplkittle on 10/1/2007 00:43:18
you got it.
You can email me at my username here @yahoo.com
I'll help you out as much as my time allows.
Brettlar, glad we could help. come back if you have any more questions, or stick around and learn a little more.
swez on 10/1/2007 09:36:55
Bret, Great... this is a common issue with some Pioneer HU's of late and glad to hear that it solved the "ground loop" issues.
If you do elect to solder the wires, clean the outer claw part of the RCA with fine sandpaper or steel wool so that it takes solder well. Use 60/40 alloy solder w/ rosin core flux. For best results, pre-tin the wire and the claw. A small dot of solder should do the job.
Truck, that's the plan and most of the common fixes are right here in this post too. If you want to do a little extra research, this site has great info on many topics:
http://www.bcae1.com/
http://www.bcae1.com/glisoltr.htm
I have YIM but have not been on it much of late. I think my screen name there is Swezdp. Best time to catch me is later in the evenings after 8:00 PM, EDT. (M-F) Weekends are hit or miss, depending on what's on the agenda.
Swez
PS By all means, write your draft, keep it short but enough info to be helpful and we'll review it before you send it to Walt. Kit, Victor & ttocs are all good help sources too.
trunkisloud on 10/1/2007 19:21:31
cool guys....i did some research last night and saved a few things to favs to come back to....im really tired when i get home so i might have to piece it together every evening so it may take a few days....but im workin on it .....
T-RAY on 10/1/2007 22:26:20
I know the response is a little late but you could of tried some high end RCA's, unless they already are high end. Had that problem when I hooked up my system with some cheaps that came with the kit, replaced em and everything is peachy!!
Less it was strictly the pioneer "glitch" that was mentioned, and the solution WAS fixed. Therefore no need to replace the RCA's!CLAP
Here's my setup:
Audiobahn A4004V 4 Channel Amp
1 10" sub running off of channels 1 and 2 bridged
2 5 1/4" speakers (front doors) running off of channels 3 and 4 (stereo)
Pioneer in-dash CD player - powering the rear speakers
I've checked the ground on the amp, CD player, and battery...none of that seemed to help. Also, checked the patch cables by running a new cable back to the amp over a different route...didn't help either. When I disconnect the input cables from the amp the noise disappears, so I tried an in-line RCA noise filter...didn't fix it. Also, I tried grounding the CD player and amp at the same spot...didn't help either. I pulled the CD player out of its slot, to see if noise was being radiated into the system there...didn't help.
Basically, I followed all of the steps on the noise suppression guide on Crutchfield Advisor's website, and none seemed to fix the problem. About the only thing that I can think of is that my alternator is going bad, and that's what's introducing the noise into the system. Anybody have any ideas about what's going on? I'm about to say screw it and rip out my stereo...no stereo is better than one with that annoying alternator whine.
Replies (15)
swez on 09/29/2007 22:00:36
Yes, you have hit all the basics so far and this one may need a few more test steps as well.
Do your have an I-pod, MP3 player or some other music source that has a headphone jack in it? If yes, try this:
1. Make an adapter cable with a headphone jack on one end and dual RCA cables on the other
2. Unplug RCA's at amp and plug in your remote player to the front channels of the amp
3. Play some music and use the volume control on your remote player to get some volume/SPL level from the amp
If the noise goes away, in this test, the amp is OK. This points to noise coming from upstream RCA's, HU issues or power line is too close to your RCA cables.
If the noise is still present, either the power and signal cables are too close or the amp ground is not as good as it needs to be. (Bare metal to floor pan in trunk.
Your front speakers... are they Component type speakers with crossovers mounted inside the door panels?
Say more after your testing,
Swez
PS Alternators have some degree of noise supression in the regulator circuit which is often inside the ALT casing. If the filter goes bad, the regulator can be replaced as a stand alone part or replace the ALT.
Also, when grounding HU and amps, we need a clean, bare metal connection to the floor pan for both the HU and amp(s). DO NOT ground Aftermarket HU's to the wiring harness in the dash.
brettlar85 on 09/29/2007 23:54:46
Thanks for the quick reply, swez. I hooked up my laptop to the RCA inputs for the front channels and the noise disappeared, so I guess that means the noise is coming upstream. I currently have the HU grounded with the factory harness, but I tried grounding it at the same location that the amp was grounded at, and that didn't seem to make a difference, so that leads me to believe that the the ground at the CD player isn't a problem, but I definitely could be wrong still.
The front speaker are Alpine Type-R coax speakers with external cross-overs mounted in the doors. Could there be a problem with those? The thing that confuses me is that when I hooked my laptop up to the amp, the noise disappeared., and the speakers worked fine, so therefore, the noise has to be coming from somewhere upstream, right?
What could be some of my next steps to take to diagnose the problem?
Thanks!
swez on 09/30/2007 00:09:32
Yep, the noise if coming from upstream and your speakers and amp are AOK.
Change the ground on the HU from factory harness to a clean, dedicated bare metal ground and see if that helps. Factory harness grounds are also connected to the dash panel displays and such. Sometimes they work fine for a while and then the noise hits later. (We see this one a lot)
What you have here is a classic case of "Ground Loop" noise. It's very common and dedicated grounding usually cures this one. You may have to extend the ground wire from the HU a bit, but once a solid ground is made, the noise should go away. If not, we have to go deeper.
FYI: Some of the newer Pioneer HU's have a glitch that can be repaired by the user. The RCA's are not grouding properly and a manual ground to the RCA's will often fix that too.
Cheers,
Swez
brettlar85 on 09/30/2007 00:35:15
How would I ground the RCA's manually? And also, would it hurt to ground the HU directly to the battery's ground terminal? I figure that way, you don't have to worry about whether your ground is clean enough, instead you go right to the source ( or end, I guess).
cplkittle on 09/30/2007 01:12:29
First, reground the HU to the chassis. Grounding it to the battery will require too much wire. Short grounds are better for eliminating noise (this applies to HU and amps). Ground to the battery also opens the door to other problems such as if the amplifier loses ground or has less of a ground than the HU, it will try to ground through the radio.
take a 12" piece of ~16ga wire and strip off 6".
wrap the 6" of bare wire around the outer part of the RCAs where they connect to the HU. You can then wrap this with tape or add a little solder to hold the wire in place. Don't solder the RCAs permanently to the HU though.
tap into the radio ground wire and attach the other end of the new RCA ground there.
swez on 09/30/2007 13:17:43
Ahhh, that' a timely tip! Care to post that into our FAQ there Kit?
(I wondered how some installers do this one well. Easy, simple, no special tools needed either. Instead of electrical tape, would a small wire tie do the job well enough?
(Tape gets slimey when it gets too warm) No tape residue to clean off later... just a nip with the wire cutters or sharp blade and the tie is gone w/o the mess)
Swez
trunkisloud on 09/30/2007 15:08:28
yea ive had the rca ground issue a few times....easy fix as stated...dont know why i didnt think of it when i read this post especially since he has a pioneer hu
cplkittle on 09/30/2007 16:38:46
I guess you can use a tie strap, just don't tighten it too tight. THe inside of the radio where the RCAs attach are just solder joints, and they are independent, so tie strapping them together could break them if you are not careful.
I always use just a touch of solder.
You can go a little further and strip back the outer layer of the RCAs if they are cheap RCAs. Some have double or triple shielding and the ground or outside of the RCA is actually a small wire ran twisted along with the inside positive terminal of the RCA.
(twisted pair). You have to know what kind of cables you have before stripping them back to attach there.
Instead of posting this as a FAQ, I am going to pass this off to trunkisloud to start a new topic and get everyone's input on how to stop alternator whine. Once you find out all the causes and how to combat them, write a DIY article to be posted in your name. This will be a huge step toward getting the gold medal you mentioned earlier this week.
swez on 09/30/2007 16:50:07
Yep, that's probably the last step for Trunk to get his "Bling".
Trunk, when writing a DIY article, it would be best to do a draft and post it on the main board for other Golds to review, comment and suggest edits/revisions. Once that is done, you can submit it to Walt for the DIY feature articles. (We'll help ya)
The FYI articles are not screened by Walt and are directly posted to that section of the board.
Swez
brettlar85 on 09/30/2007 18:56:34
PROBLEM SOLVED!!! Luckily, grounding the RCA's did the trick. I've just got the wires taped now, but I plan on soldering them to RCA's semi-permanently for a more permanent solution. Thanks so much for your help guys, you have no idea how much aggravation you have saved me!
trunkisloud on 09/30/2007 19:56:46
ok so let me get this right. I make a topic asking people about the different experiences they have had with alternator whine. after a reasonable amount of replies i take the info at hand and compile it into an article and post it on the forum. then the golds read it and make suggestions and comments to make it better. after that we make the necessary changes (if needed) and submit it to the big man.?
dude ....i can do this.
hey swez...do you still use yahoo messenger?? if so can i holla at you on there when you get a chance?
cplkittle on 10/1/2007 00:43:18
you got it.
You can email me at my username here @yahoo.com
I'll help you out as much as my time allows.
Brettlar, glad we could help. come back if you have any more questions, or stick around and learn a little more.
swez on 10/1/2007 09:36:55
Bret, Great... this is a common issue with some Pioneer HU's of late and glad to hear that it solved the "ground loop" issues.
If you do elect to solder the wires, clean the outer claw part of the RCA with fine sandpaper or steel wool so that it takes solder well. Use 60/40 alloy solder w/ rosin core flux. For best results, pre-tin the wire and the claw. A small dot of solder should do the job.
Truck, that's the plan and most of the common fixes are right here in this post too. If you want to do a little extra research, this site has great info on many topics:
http://www.bcae1.com/
http://www.bcae1.com/glisoltr.htm
I have YIM but have not been on it much of late. I think my screen name there is Swezdp. Best time to catch me is later in the evenings after 8:00 PM, EDT. (M-F) Weekends are hit or miss, depending on what's on the agenda.
Swez
PS By all means, write your draft, keep it short but enough info to be helpful and we'll review it before you send it to Walt. Kit, Victor & ttocs are all good help sources too.
trunkisloud on 10/1/2007 19:21:31
cool guys....i did some research last night and saved a few things to favs to come back to....im really tired when i get home so i might have to piece it together every evening so it may take a few days....but im workin on it .....
T-RAY on 10/1/2007 22:26:20
I know the response is a little late but you could of tried some high end RCA's, unless they already are high end. Had that problem when I hooked up my system with some cheaps that came with the kit, replaced em and everything is peachy!!
Less it was strictly the pioneer "glitch" that was mentioned, and the solution WAS fixed. Therefore no need to replace the RCA's!CLAP
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