Hey guys, love the site it's awesome! I've left some details in the fourn box by mistake, I tried to delete but ??? sorry for that!
Anyhow this is my question. I have two amps, an older Boss Audio BA-2900 60w RMS x 4, and a Alpine MRP-M650 Mono block 600w RMS @ 2 ohms. (both 14.4v rated).
I've got so far, two Alpine 6 1/2" 70w RMS splits in the front doors, two 4" Alpine 30w RMS in the back doors, and two MTX subs in a box in the rear ( run in parallel ). not sure what RMS they are, I think around 1200w peak each!
I'm using a Pioneer head deck, with only one RCA out.
can I run both the amps in series ( piggy back ), or do I have to run them seperatly, using the speaker wires to one of the amp's?
Or do I just buy a new head unit with more RCA's?
I've only just aquired the amps and subs, so the 4 speakers are currently running straight from the head unit.
also can i run the rear 4" speakers with the front 6 1/2" speakers off the Boss amp? will they handle the extra power or not?
Thanks again for your help, ohh, before I forget, the car is a '98 Subaru Forester, stock, non turbo, wish it did though!!! GRIN
CHEERS! Mick...
Replies (9)
swez on 09/23/2007 11:19:15
This is a very old model amp. (Circa 1996 - 2005?)
OK, where to start... If this amp has 2 pair of RCA input jacks and the HU only has 1 pair of RCA's, using "Y" splitter cables at the amp input stage will give you 4 inputs, but no HU fade control at the HU. That's fine if you want to bridge this amp down to 2 channels and power the Alpine splits with this amp only and use the HU amps to power your rear 4" speakers. (Recommend a Highpass Capacitor type filter to block lows to the 4" speakers) Or, use amp as a 4 channel and set the HPF for the rear speakers above 200 Hz.
Since this Boss amp does have RCA outputs, you can use these to feed the Alpine sub amp as well.
There are several other options to consider here as well. It just depends on how much work you wish to put into this project and the knowledge base you have gathered so far. If you have good experience with wiring and understand integration hardware well, there are several other options at your disposal.
Q's for you:
1. This Boss BA-2900, what is the fuse rating for this amp? (2x 20A's, 2 x 25A's ect.)
2. Do you have the manuals for these amps?
3. What is the model # of that Pioneer HU?
Comments?
Swez
PS I deleted your original post in the feedback section of the board. It cleaned up now. 8~)
swez on 09/23/2007 11:50:04
One option that really adds some nice features and not break the bank, is to use an EQ/Line Driver add on. There are several on the market that work very well and can be dash mounted for added ease of use.
When using this option, we only need 1 pair of RCA's from the HU. The EQ/LD provides 3 pair of outputs, Master volume, Sub volume, fade, line level boost, AUX input and EQ bands too. These come in a 1/2 din size, so they are very compact and in most cases, can be installed where the HU is located or a slot pocket in the dash.
Here's a short list of prducts to consider. There are many others out there to choose from. Some get very pricey though. The two items listed below can be had for under $100.00. (USD) E-bay is often a best deal place to shop.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/CLAEQS746
Clarion EQS746
Audiobahn AEQ6 or AEQ7
Swez
Ash on 09/23/2007 13:10:14
Would that amp happen to be black? I think I remember that series. They were one of the best made in the U.S.A products Boss has ever produced. There were even some nice subs to match. Too bad they didn't stick with the line.
swez on 09/23/2007 18:03:38
As I was digging for more details on this amp model, found it curious that Boss had made this one so well that others pirate/cloned it and began to market this series. They used the Boss Logo and everything. That does say something about how well this amp series was received huh?
Swez
Micky_Marta on 09/25/2007 11:46:55
Hey guys, thanks again for your help! I've found the manual on the pioneer head unit, DEH-30MP, when i pulled it out i found it had two sets of RCA's, one for the sub woofer, and one for speakers! I was so relieved when I saw those babies!!!
Since I last spoke to you ( or logged on ), I've hooked up the 2 mtx subbies in the back of the subaru with the monoblock Alpine amp! It sounds beefy as, comming out of a family car too! lol!
I haven't hooked up the Boss amp yet, thought i'd see what you guys thought before I got too excited!
To answer your question, yes I have the manual for the Alpine V-12 amp, I just brought it the day I first logged on. No the Boss dosn't have a manual, and it is silver with a thermo fan in the middle of it. It has one 30A fuse, and the other is missing, suprise suprise!
So I'm hopeing it's 2x30A? I'll have to quizz my friend, who it belongs to! I also read that they made fakes of these amps, I'm almost starting to think this is one of them??? I don't know if that will help or not!
Now with the EQ/Line Driver, and the high pass capacitor. I like the idea of the EQ/Line Driver, but can I get away with it now that I have 2 sets of RCA outs? or is it still a good option? I'll still need a Y splitter though. The Boss has a set of inputs for front, and a set for the rear. 4 inputs in total, and two outs. Not too worried about the outs now though!
Also with the high pass capacitor, i'll need 2 of them yeah? Cut the wire and solder them in? I really don't know if I should hook up the 4" Alpine's to the amp or not, I really need some direction with this, I just don't know enough...yet but I'm learning fast!!
I wanted to know about tuneing too. The 2 subs are in one box with two ports, one either side, faceing the side windows, ( subs pointing back ), but i might turn them around so I can put a cover over the amp and sub, just so they don't get knocked off .
I did see the article about cutting port tubes to size, 5" or so, anyway I thought i'd ask. I would like to know how to tune my amps, "The right way" I havn't really looked on you site for it yet, so if you could steer me in a direction, that would be awesome!
I'm up for buying new things for this system, if your got any suggestions. This is my after work tinker, so if it take's a bit of time and a bit of thinking on my part, great thats why I'm doing it! And for a great sound system I can enjoy!
Thank's again Swez and Ash, for your time guys, it's been great to find people who know what is what. And what is crap!! I've found your diagrams really helpful, and wire sizes, and parallel wireing etc. etc. GRIN
Cheers again fellas!
Mick from Melbourne
Micky_Marta on 09/25/2007 11:59:51
Hey guys, just checked out the Clarion EQ! It might be just what i'm looking for! Just an extra Question, do any head units have built in 7+ band EQ's, or are they all pricey? GRIN
Cheers again,
Mick From Melb.
swez on 09/25/2007 16:12:24
G-day Mick!
Lots of questions here and we'll answer them in a sequence that will help you organize your work well. Here we go...
1. HU's with good EQ circuits are often very pricey. They can range from $200 - 350.00 (USD) for a very well appointed HU. Yes, these have more gadgets and features too, but many are not really needed. In most cases, why pay for extra features that are not needed?
1a. You'll love the simplicity of this EQ/LD unit from Clarion. It only requires 1 pair of RCA lines from the HU as input and does all signal level distribution for you. (3 pairs for output; Front, Rear & Sub) If you like the HU you have now, use it as with this Clarion, you can even add an MP3 or I-pod player if desired.
1b. This HU has 2 pair of RCA outs. (F+R or F/SW) It also has HPF and LPF filter networks and Aux input too: (Not a bad HU, but lacking in EQ features as you will soon see)
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products/DEH-30MP/print.html
2. This Boss amp may have an internal problem and that is why the 2nd fuse is missing. If you want to replace it with a matching Alpine amp, consider the Alpine MRP-F450. It's a very good match to your front "Splits" now. If you upgrade the rear door speakers to 6.5" coaxials, this amp will power them well too. (Some fabrication required to make them fit and look good too)
2a. The Alpine 4" speakers are fine for Midrange rear fill, but cannot handle lows well at power. This HU has a High Pass Filter. (HPF) It might be good enough and no filter caps are required. (That all depends on if the filters can be assigned to front/rear/SW signals)
A little experimentation is required, to figure out the limits of these speakers. (If caps are needed later, will give you the values after testing what you have now)
3. Subs... we need to know the size and model # of the MTX subs you have now. (10", 12", 15") The model numbers are often noted on the back plate of the magnet or stenciled on the magnet assy. Without knowing the sub version you have now, it's difficult to know what the recommended enclosure should be and porting info.
3a. You'll have to remove one sub from the box and have a close look at the sub for model info. With that, we can determine the best enclosure design for them. Also, since they are ported, use the subsonic filter on this amp to protect your subs from damage.
3b. If we knew the dimensions of your box and ports, that would give us some parameters to calculate if the box is a good general fit for your subs and approximate the tuning frequency of the ports. In order to rough this out, we'll need the Height, Width and Depth dimensions of the box and wood thickness used for the box. Also, knowing the port diameter and length of each port is needed as well.
4. We have yet to discuss wiring and power needs for your system to date. The vehicle has a very modest electrical package from the factory. My quess is about 75A's peak from the ALT and a 500 - 600 CCA, (Cold Cranking Amperes) rated BAT?
4a. The amplifiers noted are going to pull about 80 amperes of current at full power. That means severe headlamp dimming when you really crank up the bass and powering both amps off this modest electrical system. Here, you will need to use a 2nd battery to feed the sub amp additional current when playing heavy bass material. (This depends on on how hard one plays their system and for how long at a given stretch)
4b. The other option to consider is having your stock ALT rebuilt to put out more power. Many factory units can be rebuilt with new guts for more power output. It may take a few calls to find a local rebuilder that can do this one for you. Ideally, a 120 ampere or higher rebuilt ALT is possible. Only one way to find out. (Get on the "horn" and call around)
We can address other matters in greater detail later. For now, there are a few action items to figure out first. Once we have these nailed down tight, then we'll move to the finer details of this install. Take your time. We'll guide you through the steps as needed.
In the meantime, we will also begin to look for a wiring kit that meets your needs. Here, a #4 gage power line kit is the minimum required to power both amps noted. You will also need a main fuse at the battery, a power distribution block to feed each amp and RCA wires as well. What brands of hardware are available in your area? (Street Wires, Monster Cable, Rockford Fosgate, Stinger, other?)
Cheers Mick, (Is that "Mick Dundee" by chance?) GRIN
Swez
Micky_Marta on 09/30/2007 09:43:27
G'day! From down under! Throw another shrimp on the bar-be! I'm not quite mick dundee, my knife isn't quite that big! I'll get back to you once i've got all of the information for ya! Thanks alot again swez, I'll let you know how I go! Mick Dundee! GRIN Cheers!
swez on 09/30/2007 13:10:46
Hey mate,
When ya get the details together, then grab a note pad and get ready to make a shopping list of hardware and such to be used in this project.
"Shrimp on the bar-be" sounds pretty good right about now... umm-hu!
It's not the size of the "neyfe" that matters most. It's the skill of the hunta that wields it. Keep the blade sharp and all is well. SMILE
Swez
Anyhow this is my question. I have two amps, an older Boss Audio BA-2900 60w RMS x 4, and a Alpine MRP-M650 Mono block 600w RMS @ 2 ohms. (both 14.4v rated).
I've got so far, two Alpine 6 1/2" 70w RMS splits in the front doors, two 4" Alpine 30w RMS in the back doors, and two MTX subs in a box in the rear ( run in parallel ). not sure what RMS they are, I think around 1200w peak each!
I'm using a Pioneer head deck, with only one RCA out.
can I run both the amps in series ( piggy back ), or do I have to run them seperatly, using the speaker wires to one of the amp's?
Or do I just buy a new head unit with more RCA's?
I've only just aquired the amps and subs, so the 4 speakers are currently running straight from the head unit.
also can i run the rear 4" speakers with the front 6 1/2" speakers off the Boss amp? will they handle the extra power or not?
Thanks again for your help, ohh, before I forget, the car is a '98 Subaru Forester, stock, non turbo, wish it did though!!! GRIN
CHEERS! Mick...
Replies (9)
swez on 09/23/2007 11:19:15
This is a very old model amp. (Circa 1996 - 2005?)
OK, where to start... If this amp has 2 pair of RCA input jacks and the HU only has 1 pair of RCA's, using "Y" splitter cables at the amp input stage will give you 4 inputs, but no HU fade control at the HU. That's fine if you want to bridge this amp down to 2 channels and power the Alpine splits with this amp only and use the HU amps to power your rear 4" speakers. (Recommend a Highpass Capacitor type filter to block lows to the 4" speakers) Or, use amp as a 4 channel and set the HPF for the rear speakers above 200 Hz.
Since this Boss amp does have RCA outputs, you can use these to feed the Alpine sub amp as well.
There are several other options to consider here as well. It just depends on how much work you wish to put into this project and the knowledge base you have gathered so far. If you have good experience with wiring and understand integration hardware well, there are several other options at your disposal.
Q's for you:
1. This Boss BA-2900, what is the fuse rating for this amp? (2x 20A's, 2 x 25A's ect.)
2. Do you have the manuals for these amps?
3. What is the model # of that Pioneer HU?
Comments?
Swez
PS I deleted your original post in the feedback section of the board. It cleaned up now. 8~)
swez on 09/23/2007 11:50:04
One option that really adds some nice features and not break the bank, is to use an EQ/Line Driver add on. There are several on the market that work very well and can be dash mounted for added ease of use.
When using this option, we only need 1 pair of RCA's from the HU. The EQ/LD provides 3 pair of outputs, Master volume, Sub volume, fade, line level boost, AUX input and EQ bands too. These come in a 1/2 din size, so they are very compact and in most cases, can be installed where the HU is located or a slot pocket in the dash.
Here's a short list of prducts to consider. There are many others out there to choose from. Some get very pricey though. The two items listed below can be had for under $100.00. (USD) E-bay is often a best deal place to shop.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/CLAEQS746
Clarion EQS746
Audiobahn AEQ6 or AEQ7
Swez
Ash on 09/23/2007 13:10:14
Would that amp happen to be black? I think I remember that series. They were one of the best made in the U.S.A products Boss has ever produced. There were even some nice subs to match. Too bad they didn't stick with the line.
swez on 09/23/2007 18:03:38
As I was digging for more details on this amp model, found it curious that Boss had made this one so well that others pirate/cloned it and began to market this series. They used the Boss Logo and everything. That does say something about how well this amp series was received huh?
Swez
Micky_Marta on 09/25/2007 11:46:55
Hey guys, thanks again for your help! I've found the manual on the pioneer head unit, DEH-30MP, when i pulled it out i found it had two sets of RCA's, one for the sub woofer, and one for speakers! I was so relieved when I saw those babies!!!
Since I last spoke to you ( or logged on ), I've hooked up the 2 mtx subbies in the back of the subaru with the monoblock Alpine amp! It sounds beefy as, comming out of a family car too! lol!
I haven't hooked up the Boss amp yet, thought i'd see what you guys thought before I got too excited!
To answer your question, yes I have the manual for the Alpine V-12 amp, I just brought it the day I first logged on. No the Boss dosn't have a manual, and it is silver with a thermo fan in the middle of it. It has one 30A fuse, and the other is missing, suprise suprise!
So I'm hopeing it's 2x30A? I'll have to quizz my friend, who it belongs to! I also read that they made fakes of these amps, I'm almost starting to think this is one of them??? I don't know if that will help or not!
Now with the EQ/Line Driver, and the high pass capacitor. I like the idea of the EQ/Line Driver, but can I get away with it now that I have 2 sets of RCA outs? or is it still a good option? I'll still need a Y splitter though. The Boss has a set of inputs for front, and a set for the rear. 4 inputs in total, and two outs. Not too worried about the outs now though!
Also with the high pass capacitor, i'll need 2 of them yeah? Cut the wire and solder them in? I really don't know if I should hook up the 4" Alpine's to the amp or not, I really need some direction with this, I just don't know enough...yet but I'm learning fast!!
I wanted to know about tuneing too. The 2 subs are in one box with two ports, one either side, faceing the side windows, ( subs pointing back ), but i might turn them around so I can put a cover over the amp and sub, just so they don't get knocked off .
I did see the article about cutting port tubes to size, 5" or so, anyway I thought i'd ask. I would like to know how to tune my amps, "The right way" I havn't really looked on you site for it yet, so if you could steer me in a direction, that would be awesome!
I'm up for buying new things for this system, if your got any suggestions. This is my after work tinker, so if it take's a bit of time and a bit of thinking on my part, great thats why I'm doing it! And for a great sound system I can enjoy!
Thank's again Swez and Ash, for your time guys, it's been great to find people who know what is what. And what is crap!! I've found your diagrams really helpful, and wire sizes, and parallel wireing etc. etc. GRIN
Cheers again fellas!
Mick from Melbourne
Micky_Marta on 09/25/2007 11:59:51
Hey guys, just checked out the Clarion EQ! It might be just what i'm looking for! Just an extra Question, do any head units have built in 7+ band EQ's, or are they all pricey? GRIN
Cheers again,
Mick From Melb.
swez on 09/25/2007 16:12:24
G-day Mick!
Lots of questions here and we'll answer them in a sequence that will help you organize your work well. Here we go...
1. HU's with good EQ circuits are often very pricey. They can range from $200 - 350.00 (USD) for a very well appointed HU. Yes, these have more gadgets and features too, but many are not really needed. In most cases, why pay for extra features that are not needed?
1a. You'll love the simplicity of this EQ/LD unit from Clarion. It only requires 1 pair of RCA lines from the HU as input and does all signal level distribution for you. (3 pairs for output; Front, Rear & Sub) If you like the HU you have now, use it as with this Clarion, you can even add an MP3 or I-pod player if desired.
1b. This HU has 2 pair of RCA outs. (F+R or F/SW) It also has HPF and LPF filter networks and Aux input too: (Not a bad HU, but lacking in EQ features as you will soon see)
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products/DEH-30MP/print.html
2. This Boss amp may have an internal problem and that is why the 2nd fuse is missing. If you want to replace it with a matching Alpine amp, consider the Alpine MRP-F450. It's a very good match to your front "Splits" now. If you upgrade the rear door speakers to 6.5" coaxials, this amp will power them well too. (Some fabrication required to make them fit and look good too)
2a. The Alpine 4" speakers are fine for Midrange rear fill, but cannot handle lows well at power. This HU has a High Pass Filter. (HPF) It might be good enough and no filter caps are required. (That all depends on if the filters can be assigned to front/rear/SW signals)
A little experimentation is required, to figure out the limits of these speakers. (If caps are needed later, will give you the values after testing what you have now)
3. Subs... we need to know the size and model # of the MTX subs you have now. (10", 12", 15") The model numbers are often noted on the back plate of the magnet or stenciled on the magnet assy. Without knowing the sub version you have now, it's difficult to know what the recommended enclosure should be and porting info.
3a. You'll have to remove one sub from the box and have a close look at the sub for model info. With that, we can determine the best enclosure design for them. Also, since they are ported, use the subsonic filter on this amp to protect your subs from damage.
3b. If we knew the dimensions of your box and ports, that would give us some parameters to calculate if the box is a good general fit for your subs and approximate the tuning frequency of the ports. In order to rough this out, we'll need the Height, Width and Depth dimensions of the box and wood thickness used for the box. Also, knowing the port diameter and length of each port is needed as well.
4. We have yet to discuss wiring and power needs for your system to date. The vehicle has a very modest electrical package from the factory. My quess is about 75A's peak from the ALT and a 500 - 600 CCA, (Cold Cranking Amperes) rated BAT?
4a. The amplifiers noted are going to pull about 80 amperes of current at full power. That means severe headlamp dimming when you really crank up the bass and powering both amps off this modest electrical system. Here, you will need to use a 2nd battery to feed the sub amp additional current when playing heavy bass material. (This depends on on how hard one plays their system and for how long at a given stretch)
4b. The other option to consider is having your stock ALT rebuilt to put out more power. Many factory units can be rebuilt with new guts for more power output. It may take a few calls to find a local rebuilder that can do this one for you. Ideally, a 120 ampere or higher rebuilt ALT is possible. Only one way to find out. (Get on the "horn" and call around)
We can address other matters in greater detail later. For now, there are a few action items to figure out first. Once we have these nailed down tight, then we'll move to the finer details of this install. Take your time. We'll guide you through the steps as needed.
In the meantime, we will also begin to look for a wiring kit that meets your needs. Here, a #4 gage power line kit is the minimum required to power both amps noted. You will also need a main fuse at the battery, a power distribution block to feed each amp and RCA wires as well. What brands of hardware are available in your area? (Street Wires, Monster Cable, Rockford Fosgate, Stinger, other?)
Cheers Mick, (Is that "Mick Dundee" by chance?) GRIN
Swez
Micky_Marta on 09/30/2007 09:43:27
G'day! From down under! Throw another shrimp on the bar-be! I'm not quite mick dundee, my knife isn't quite that big! I'll get back to you once i've got all of the information for ya! Thanks alot again swez, I'll let you know how I go! Mick Dundee! GRIN Cheers!
swez on 09/30/2007 13:10:46
Hey mate,
When ya get the details together, then grab a note pad and get ready to make a shopping list of hardware and such to be used in this project.
"Shrimp on the bar-be" sounds pretty good right about now... umm-hu!
It's not the size of the "neyfe" that matters most. It's the skill of the hunta that wields it. Keep the blade sharp and all is well. SMILE
Swez
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