Hi My name is steve and Ive been hooking up systems for 4 years now but still have a bunch to learn. I just got a 1987 cadillac coupe de ville and I want to make it bump. [SUBS] I have 2 10in rockford fosgate p3's dvc 4 ohm, 2 12in alpine type e's svc 4 ohm, 1 10 in kicker crv dvc 2 ohm, and 1 12 in mtx tc5500 svc 4. [AMPS] 1 Mtx TC4001 200 watts x 1 rms 4 ohm or 400 watts x 1 2 ohm, 1 alpine MRP-M350 not sure of rms, 1 mtx tunder 5302 not sure of rms. What is the best way to use what I have to bump. I want to get the most of what I have. If you have any tips let me know please. thanks
Steve
Replies (5)
swez on 09/1/2007 14:27:29
Hum, you have a lot of options to play with here. Let's get some specs on the amps so we all know what's in this mix:
1. Alpine MRP-M350
200 Wrms @ 4 ohms, 350 Wrms @ 2 ohms
2. MTX TC4001
200 Wrms @ 4 ohms, 400 Wrms @ 2 ohms
3. MTX Thunder 5302
75 Wrms x 2 @ 4 ohms, 150 Wrms x 2 @ 2 ohms, 300 Wrms Bridged @ 4 ohms
====================================================
Sub options:
1. RF P3's are rated at 400 Wrms/ea. (1 or 4 ohms in pairs)
2. Alpine SWE -1242 are rated at 250 Wrms/ea. (2 ohms in pairs)
3. MTX Thunder5500 T5512-04 (300 Wrms @ 4 ohms)
4. Kicker CompVR 07CVR102 (400 watts RMS @ 1 or 4 ohms)
====================================================
For the gear listed, the RF P3's are your strongest subs. However, none of these amps alone will come close to powering them to full potential. Here, the best option would be a Class D amp that is 1 ohm stable and delivers a sold 800 - 1000 Wrms @ 1 ohm loads
One option you can use, would be a combination of 2 amps and the RF subs:
Alpine MRP-M350 powering one P3 @ 2 ohms
MTX TC4001 powering one P3 @ 2 ohms
I don't recommend this option as much as using a single Class D amp that can feed both subs equally.
The other option would be to use the pair of Alpine SWE's and power them with the MTX TC4001 alone. This would be the cleanest option and each sub gets a solid 200 Wrms/ea.
The MTX Thunder 5302 would make a great amp for power front Component speakers. (2-4 ohms recommended)
The MTX and Kicker subs are good, but not well matched to be used in pairings. If you wanted a single sub only, either would be suitable with the MTX 5302 amp bridged. (Nice for a smaller vehicle install, but not a street banger for a Caddy)
Comments?
Swez
MagorksAudio on 09/1/2007 17:06:47
Thanks for the info I think I was going to try to use the 2 RF and the kicker cvr because they are the same rms and size but I know im going to need at least 1200 watt rms amp. do you know were I could get 1 for cheap that would hit clear and sound good. also do you know of any place in the Boston area were I could sell any of my stuff or trade for the amp I need. if so let me know please thanks.
swez on 09/1/2007 18:51:03
Not recommended to mix and match your sub brands on this one project. Yes, others do it, but it's "ghetto" in most cases and getting equal power to each sub off one amp not possible here. (The Kicker sub will get 50% power and each P3 will get 25% power/ea.) See what I mean?
If using the P3's only, you'll need a strong Class D amp that can deliver a solid +800 Wrms @ 1 ohm loads. These amps can get pretty expensive and the rest of your gear is up for sale. Here's one option that is a bit strong, but usable:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16367 ($239.00)
Another option you should consider and have the power needed, add a 2nd matching MTX TC4001. That's one amp per sub. (This is both efficient and cost effective) This option makes a lot of sense!!!
http://techronics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=4940&aff=72182 ($168.00)
This option makes a lot of sense and you can always use your MTX Thunder 5302 for powering front and rear speakers if desired. (Or just fronts)
What say you?
Swez
PS The rest of the gear mentioned is pretty good stuff and should fetch a good return if they are clean and in very good condition. E-bay would be one option. Another option would be to haggle it out with your buddies. Search e-bay for general prices on new/used items of same brand and model #'s. That will give you a good feel for the right prices on each item and save all the hassles of bidding, getting paid ect.
MagorksAudio on 09/1/2007 21:32:57
thanks for the advice I think im going to save and get a bigger amp because i think im trading my type e's or 1 of the kickers for anouther RF 10in P3 dvc 4ohm tomarrow. So I think im going to get 1200wrms amp or bigger or should I get 2 other MTX TC4001 so each sub has its own amp. what do you recomend? Thanks for your info its been very helpful
steve
swez on 09/2/2007 01:00:58
Steve,
I think your best package is still one MTX TC4001/sub. They are well matched in power, (to your subs) and these amps are robust and more cost effective then one larger amp.
FYI: Three RF P3's would net a 2.66 ohm load. This makes for a less efficient load for 2 ohm rated amplifiers. To get a full 400 to each sub, need an amp that delivers about 1500 Wrms @ 2 ohms.
Tech Tip: We have not touched on this part yet, but since you'll be using 3 or 4 medium strong amps, power management will become an issue with a stock electrical system. (Severe light dimming problems at night) That means a High Output Alternator, wire upgrades and a relay system to turn all amps on. (Break out the fat wallet soon)
This will be a very strong bass engine w/ 3 subs and noted amplifiers. Amping your mid/high speakers will be needed to cut through all the bass. There are a couple of strategies to do this well. Do you happen to know the ALT rating on the this engine package?
It appears that the stock Delco is a CS 144 for the 4.1 Liter, V-8 engine package. It's rated at 120A's at full output and about 65A's at idle. That means either buying a H.O. ALT (+ 200 Ampere version) and probably a dedicated battery to buffer the sub amps.
This is one reason for considering just dual subs and 2 sub amps. (<80A's in current draw VS ~120A's for the subs alone) Yes, 3 subs will offer more bass SPL in the trunk, but a dual 10 ported box and 2 amps can be more efficient and less cost as the H.O. ALT would not be needed. A dedicated battery would still be needed, but factor in the cost of a H.O. ALT... (~$1.50/ampere) + a buffer battery, (<$200.00) and the cost goes up dramatically. THINK this one over very carefully before you dive in Steve. This could become a major $$$ pit if not planned out well in advance!!!
Comments?
Swez
PS You are most welcome... have been on this and other forums for 9 years now and do Pro Audio rigs as well. My goal is to give our readers the best possible options w/o killing their wallets and gear in the process.
Steve
Replies (5)
swez on 09/1/2007 14:27:29
Hum, you have a lot of options to play with here. Let's get some specs on the amps so we all know what's in this mix:
1. Alpine MRP-M350
200 Wrms @ 4 ohms, 350 Wrms @ 2 ohms
2. MTX TC4001
200 Wrms @ 4 ohms, 400 Wrms @ 2 ohms
3. MTX Thunder 5302
75 Wrms x 2 @ 4 ohms, 150 Wrms x 2 @ 2 ohms, 300 Wrms Bridged @ 4 ohms
====================================================
Sub options:
1. RF P3's are rated at 400 Wrms/ea. (1 or 4 ohms in pairs)
2. Alpine SWE -1242 are rated at 250 Wrms/ea. (2 ohms in pairs)
3. MTX Thunder5500 T5512-04 (300 Wrms @ 4 ohms)
4. Kicker CompVR 07CVR102 (400 watts RMS @ 1 or 4 ohms)
====================================================
For the gear listed, the RF P3's are your strongest subs. However, none of these amps alone will come close to powering them to full potential. Here, the best option would be a Class D amp that is 1 ohm stable and delivers a sold 800 - 1000 Wrms @ 1 ohm loads
One option you can use, would be a combination of 2 amps and the RF subs:
Alpine MRP-M350 powering one P3 @ 2 ohms
MTX TC4001 powering one P3 @ 2 ohms
I don't recommend this option as much as using a single Class D amp that can feed both subs equally.
The other option would be to use the pair of Alpine SWE's and power them with the MTX TC4001 alone. This would be the cleanest option and each sub gets a solid 200 Wrms/ea.
The MTX Thunder 5302 would make a great amp for power front Component speakers. (2-4 ohms recommended)
The MTX and Kicker subs are good, but not well matched to be used in pairings. If you wanted a single sub only, either would be suitable with the MTX 5302 amp bridged. (Nice for a smaller vehicle install, but not a street banger for a Caddy)
Comments?
Swez
MagorksAudio on 09/1/2007 17:06:47
Thanks for the info I think I was going to try to use the 2 RF and the kicker cvr because they are the same rms and size but I know im going to need at least 1200 watt rms amp. do you know were I could get 1 for cheap that would hit clear and sound good. also do you know of any place in the Boston area were I could sell any of my stuff or trade for the amp I need. if so let me know please thanks.
swez on 09/1/2007 18:51:03
Not recommended to mix and match your sub brands on this one project. Yes, others do it, but it's "ghetto" in most cases and getting equal power to each sub off one amp not possible here. (The Kicker sub will get 50% power and each P3 will get 25% power/ea.) See what I mean?
If using the P3's only, you'll need a strong Class D amp that can deliver a solid +800 Wrms @ 1 ohm loads. These amps can get pretty expensive and the rest of your gear is up for sale. Here's one option that is a bit strong, but usable:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16367 ($239.00)
Another option you should consider and have the power needed, add a 2nd matching MTX TC4001. That's one amp per sub. (This is both efficient and cost effective) This option makes a lot of sense!!!
http://techronics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=4940&aff=72182 ($168.00)
This option makes a lot of sense and you can always use your MTX Thunder 5302 for powering front and rear speakers if desired. (Or just fronts)
What say you?
Swez
PS The rest of the gear mentioned is pretty good stuff and should fetch a good return if they are clean and in very good condition. E-bay would be one option. Another option would be to haggle it out with your buddies. Search e-bay for general prices on new/used items of same brand and model #'s. That will give you a good feel for the right prices on each item and save all the hassles of bidding, getting paid ect.
MagorksAudio on 09/1/2007 21:32:57
thanks for the advice I think im going to save and get a bigger amp because i think im trading my type e's or 1 of the kickers for anouther RF 10in P3 dvc 4ohm tomarrow. So I think im going to get 1200wrms amp or bigger or should I get 2 other MTX TC4001 so each sub has its own amp. what do you recomend? Thanks for your info its been very helpful
steve
swez on 09/2/2007 01:00:58
Steve,
I think your best package is still one MTX TC4001/sub. They are well matched in power, (to your subs) and these amps are robust and more cost effective then one larger amp.
FYI: Three RF P3's would net a 2.66 ohm load. This makes for a less efficient load for 2 ohm rated amplifiers. To get a full 400 to each sub, need an amp that delivers about 1500 Wrms @ 2 ohms.
Tech Tip: We have not touched on this part yet, but since you'll be using 3 or 4 medium strong amps, power management will become an issue with a stock electrical system. (Severe light dimming problems at night) That means a High Output Alternator, wire upgrades and a relay system to turn all amps on. (Break out the fat wallet soon)
This will be a very strong bass engine w/ 3 subs and noted amplifiers. Amping your mid/high speakers will be needed to cut through all the bass. There are a couple of strategies to do this well. Do you happen to know the ALT rating on the this engine package?
It appears that the stock Delco is a CS 144 for the 4.1 Liter, V-8 engine package. It's rated at 120A's at full output and about 65A's at idle. That means either buying a H.O. ALT (+ 200 Ampere version) and probably a dedicated battery to buffer the sub amps.
This is one reason for considering just dual subs and 2 sub amps. (<80A's in current draw VS ~120A's for the subs alone) Yes, 3 subs will offer more bass SPL in the trunk, but a dual 10 ported box and 2 amps can be more efficient and less cost as the H.O. ALT would not be needed. A dedicated battery would still be needed, but factor in the cost of a H.O. ALT... (~$1.50/ampere) + a buffer battery, (<$200.00) and the cost goes up dramatically. THINK this one over very carefully before you dive in Steve. This could become a major $$$ pit if not planned out well in advance!!!
Comments?
Swez
PS You are most welcome... have been on this and other forums for 9 years now and do Pro Audio rigs as well. My goal is to give our readers the best possible options w/o killing their wallets and gear in the process.
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
