Alright, im going to try and make this short and sweet since im kind of tired. Im new to these forums and am a car audio enthusiast. Cars and car audio are two things that greatly interest me. Basicaly I have a list of things of what im going to be adding to my car and I just wanna know what you guys think about it. Like if you have any suggestions to change and whatnot. I drive a 2000 dodge durango just to put that out there.
-Pioneer DEH-P5900IB in dash reciever
-Polk Audio 6.5" Component Speakers (db6501) for the front and back doors.
-Kicker Zx-350.4 Amplifier
-Jl audio 10w7 subwoofer
-Jl audio 500/1 amplifier
-Tsunami PP1010DM 10 Farad Capacitor
I already have the Jl 10w7 and the 500/1. I've heard good things about Polk audio speakers and i am hoping that my w7 does not drown out the sound. So basicaly im just lookin for advice or suggestions that i could do for around the same price and quality of sound. Thanks in advance.
Replies (53)
Victor on 08/29/2007 08:11:04
that is a sensible choice of SQL equipment you got there... it is going to be a balanced system in all aspects.. just one suggestion, opt for a sealed enclosure for that sub if you are keen on tight clean crisp quality bass....
exit the capacitor as its just audio jewelery...
just a big 3 upgrade should be enough....
to have more information regarding this... please read the following links in detail
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g5316
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g3481
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
instead use that money in some sound damping mats or paint.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g4137
hope this helps.. and you are eager to learn yourself using the resources provided.
of course we are here if you are confused or don't understand somethings....
welcome to CK.
COFFEE..
Victor...
swez on 08/29/2007 09:30:22
Welcome to CK!
Agreed, nice package and sound dampening the doors and perhaps the rear wall would be in order here. This will keep the rattles to a minimum and keep the sound inside the truck nice when the windows are shut.
Do you know the specs on the electrical package in this truck? It would be great if you have a towing package and about 140 ampere ALT. If a bit less, the Big 3 wiring upgrade and a high CCA rated battery would be a good bet. (Forget the Cap) Use that cash for a better battery and wiring needs.
You will also like the Polks and with that much amping power, they will keep up with your sub. (+60 Wrms x 4 here and very efficient speakers too) Have you picked out your wiring and hardware needs yet?
Swez
heretic on 08/29/2007 16:31:05
I have yet to buy all the wiring and harware kits needed. Originaly Circuitcity was going to do the job on the wiring, but im not sure if 400 is even reasonable, for just labor, to install this stuff. I know that pretty much it will be all new wiring to each speaker, to each amp, and to the head unit. This is out of my league to do and thus i was going to have someone trusted do it. Sorry to ask a stupid question, but i looked through the owners manual and at the car, but i am unaware of the "ampere" on the ALT. How would i check this?
Also, i fail to see why you wouldnt want to use a capacitor. I figure u know more than i and that you are right, but if u could just inform me on why it would just be a waste of money.
heretic on 08/30/2007 01:18:13
would those alternators even be strong enough? cuz it says 117ampere for almost all of them. swez said that i should look for one above that, around 140. are those types of alternators alot more expensive or they just not needed? id assume that my safest bet is to get "the Big 3 wiring upgrade and a high CCA rated battery". if u have another idea let me know. also, i would assume that my alternator would be just fine and would be around the same ampere, but thats just me hoping that.
Victor on 08/30/2007 02:31:52
Is there anything written on the alternator, any numbers embossed or any sticker...
if so.. what does it read...??
once your install is done and you use the system for a few days you will be able to decide whether a battery and then an alternator upgrade is necessary..
if there is some minor dimming of interior lights then just a big 3 upgrade would suffice...
if there is heavy dimming of the interior lights as well as the head lamps then you surely need one..
if the battery and amp do not keep up with the amps current draw then you shall notice heavy distortions at volumes around 60% due to clipping.... a steep cut in the high frequency reproduction... and very muddy bass.... coupled with improper functioning of all lighting equipments installed in the car.
for now... get the install done.. and play it around for a few days before you decide onto anything...
of course doing a big 3 would be no harm and only beneficial.. at this point no use in spending money in the alt and battery before u even install this system..
with a 117 amp alt and a big 3 i guess it should suffice... if not then we can take this ahead with other electrical upgrade later...
electrical upgrades go like this..
1 - wiring/cabling/big 3
2 - battery
3 - alt
so lets take it step by step, if and when necessary...
Victor...
heretic on 08/30/2007 03:42:41
sounds good. thank you very much so far.
but my last question, which will be easiest one so far is... what is this "big 3 upgrade" u talk about.
Victor on 08/30/2007 04:45:19
I am disappointed..... looks like u still haven't bothered to go through the links posted above...
care to look at it now...??? it has got a link that will lead u to probably the best Big 3 explanation on the Internet.....
Victor...
when links are posted, you should ideally be going through em....COFFEE
heretic on 08/30/2007 05:13:17
figures that was the one link i didnt click on. i read in full about the capacitors and all the other links, but that one i guess i skipped over. m bad. to prove i found it the big 3 are...
1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine
thank you again. ill update later once i have stuff goin.
Victor on 08/30/2007 07:57:49
do document this project with notes and pics at each level... it will be a very useful learning experience you could share with others....
Victor...COFFEE
swez on 08/30/2007 16:42:23
The power requirements needed for this package are pretty much based on how hard you like to push the system and the type of music will also dictate that as well. (The sub amp is the most demanding current draw device mentioned) It depends on how hard driving you like your bass.
The Big 3 is easy to do and just add larger wires to the exsisting ones you have now. In this case, #4 gage would be adequate for the Big 3 upgrade.
As for the main power line that feeds both amps mentioned, I would use 1/0 gage for the main cable and then split that with a fused Distribution Block for each amp. (#4 gage power and grounds are good here)
As for Circuit City doing the install, it really depends on the skill of the Tech that does the work. If you get one of their "A" installers, they'll do it well. If you get a rookie, it's hit or miss. The price range they quoted is about right for this level of work if it includes all install work + extra hardware needs.
As for the ALT/BAT power needs, a 117A may do the trick here with a few minor modifications. We start with the Big 3 wiring, look at the Battery storage capacity next and if these don't cut it, the last step is a High Output ALT. (roughly $1.50/ampere is a good number estimate)
In your case, I would tend to use the stock ALT and add a dedicated battery for the JL 500/1 amp. This battery is superior to a CAP and cost is about the same. (800 - 1000 CCA BAT here) Stock battery used for the rest of the vehicle needs and also powers the 4 channel amp.
Where are you located geographically? I ask this as we have talented installers on this site that do side jobs and if you live near one of them, this may be a good option for quality workmanship and a fair install price for all your needs.
Finally, since you have picked out some very nice gear, don't scrimp on the hardware and labor aspects of this install. If the job is low-balled and you are not happy, someone else will have to do the work over and this will cost more in the long run. (Do it well the 1st time out)
Comments?
Swez
heretic on 08/31/2007 04:10:07
i live in souther california. neer san diego. if u know of any place in particular that u think would be better to go to let me know. otherwise i was gonna let circuit city do it, and the guy said for this setup he wont be giving me an amatuer. so we will see...
swez on 08/31/2007 09:39:37
Cannot think of any CK members in that area that are actively doing install work at the level you have outlined so far. With a little good fortune, a well skilled tech will do this project well for you.
After the initial install is completed, you may need some help dialing in your system for optimal performance and insure that the amps have adequate power from the electrical system as well. It will be evident that a need is present to do some electrical upgrades if you note severe light dimming on long, deep bass hits. We can walk you through these steps if they are needed.
Swez
PS Vic, I deleted your link on ALT's to bring this post and threads back to a readable format. I hope you have that link handy if needed later. I don't normally do this w/o permission from the writer, but it really made this post hard to read. (Don't feel offended... it was not malicious) ;-)
Victor on 08/31/2007 10:08:08
COFFEE....
anyways it was just a link searched off google... with the key words being
""2000 dodge durango alternator""
heretic on 08/31/2007 13:11:01
i was thinking of going over to tweeter after the initial install and seeing if they would tweak the setting a bit since they have a far more vast knowledge than circuit city does, only downfall is they charge more for stuff. thus thats why im going to CC. =] do u think that taking it somewhere after the install that the place will charge me for fine tuning?
swez on 08/31/2007 15:31:58
In most cases, the installer will do the initial tweaks and balance checks as part of the install fee. If you are not satisfied with the results you have 3 main options:
1. Go back to the installer for services (Often, no extra fees)
2. Hire an indepedent shop to tweak as needed (Depending on the extent of the services and time spent, the fee is often negotiable)
3. Learn the details of the gear you have and tweak it yourself (This is the best option as one gets to know the features and how they interact with each other)
For #3 option, we can guide you as needed. The only real expense is likely to be a low cost Digital Multimeter. ($20.00) There is time involved on the users part, but this is good for the user as they learn the details w/o having to rely on or pay others for things one can often do themselves to their own satifaction. (Every install is unique to the preferences of the listener and the gear installed) Learning how to optimize them to "the users preferences" are always a plus.
It's not "Rocket Science" level things to do either. Common sense and some good coaching will help the user to tailor the system to their own preferences.
Swez
PS If you do choose option 3 and use CK as your supportive aid, it is good etiquitte to set aside a reasonable donation for the site. If the process is extensive and you want one-on-one coaching, it is good form to offer a "gratuity" for the help received. ;-)
Victor on 08/31/2007 16:53:18
why just for tweaking... i am sure we at CK can walk you through this entire install, and am sure by the end of it you would have learnt a lot for yourself to tweak as well as trouble shoot your own system...
CK is a free forum and we help everyone here for free...
ofcourse we do need funds to keep up the site,
$$$ are generally funded most by generous donations from members who have actually found this place helpful and are happy with the results...many of them have done installs better than a professional at circuit city could ever do...
'Walter Hargrave' the admin and creator of this site does a lot of hard work to keep this site updated and many golds contributing generously with invaluable knowledge and $$$ too.....
If you are up for it and are willing to work on your own, if you are a bit inquisitive and have some science back ground, if you are comfortable working with tools then this should be an easy walk through for the install....
Think about it and let us know, theres a lot of experience and knowledge on CK for free, and its a lot better than the locally found learned men in car audio who are ready to pounce on your money for a crappy install, make the best use of it...THINK
Internet is a Blessing....((( Walt can we have a 'Praying' & an 'Angel' smiley here... please...??? Thanks in advance COFFEE)))
Victor...
Instead of spending $ 400 just for the install labor, you could get all your electrical upgrades done for that money u save by doing the install yourself, and also build urself a good sub-enclosure....
heretic on 09/1/2007 03:49:53
I thought about doing the job myself. But i would HATE to even take a chance at screwing something up. If i get it installed by circuitcity and buy the speakers from them... i can blow those speakers out as many times as i want in the next 4 years and have it covered under their warranty. whereas if i do it myself and blow it out on accident, i just look like an ignorant wanabe installer. At the end of all of this i would be happy to make a donation tho. It has been very helpful and answered many questions even at ungodly hours (victor =] ).
My uncle is a very skilled contractor and is making a good living doing what hes doing because hes good at it and people know him. He is going to help me build my subwoofer box (hes done his own too). I figured that would be the smartest thing, because A - he has all the tools. B - hes skilled with caulking guns and glue. C - he can get the MDF board free from his jobs and his work. and D - hes built his own custom box before as well.
As of right now, i have decided to buy the 4ch amp online (cheapest route) as well as the Steering Wheel remote for after market decks. I am going to stick to buying the speakers from circuit city because they offer that huge warranty ($50 for 4 years) and because you buy one set and get the second set half off.
I work two jobs and have a gf. I dont have much time to do anything for myself (like installing this). I would love to learn how to tweek my own settings and use the digital meter as Swez talked about. I think that is a great idea, and would be very smart. But thats not until everything is in the car.
-Adam
swez on 09/1/2007 13:29:17
CK Techs have helped hundreds of guys do their own installs and most have come out very well if:
1. The user had a good mechanical sense and proper tools
2. Is motivated to learn
3. Has the time available
4. Follows instructions well
5. Has a solid game plan and reads the manuals as needed
With all the factors you have noted so far, it may be the best option to have the work done by a Pro Installer. Doing a project of this magnitude for the first time alone, will eat up your free time and drive a wedge with most g/f relationships. (She'll probably resent all the time spent and feel discounted... we know that drill well) SMILE
Anyway, you have some great gear on the build list. Having your uncle build the sub enclosure would be a good option and perhaps you can discuss building a custom amp rack that tucks the amps under the rear seats too. (Stealth install to hide the goods) Are you also planning to have the doors dampened when they install your Polks? It's well worth the effort and extra cost. (Quiets the interior against road noise and dampens and rattles too)
Good luck and keep us posted as you move along,
Swez
PS Victor is from India. That translates to a + 9.5 hour time zone shift from EDT. (Meaning 12:00 Noon in NY is 9:30 PM in his zone)
Victor on 09/1/2007 16:59:43
yeah.... definitely not ungodly hours for me here.... GRIN though right now its 2:30 am here.... lol... i never sleep on time...
keep us posted with the install...
we keep all members of CK on mind, and wait for their response... many just vanish into thin air once their purpose is solved...
if you do have time to supervise the install .. do take pictures and notes at every stage.. it shall be helpful to many.
Wish you luck...
Victor...
Ps: DO NOT IGNORE SOUND DAMPING, EITHER USE DAMPING PAINT OR MATS ON DOORS AND TRUNK.
heretic on 09/2/2007 04:52:09
I will definately log all progress. A custom rack for the amps would be a great idea, thank you for reminding me. As for the dampening of the doors, is it best to dampen BEFORE or AFTER the install??
-Adam
swez on 09/2/2007 11:17:19
You can do it either way. Most guys do this while/after the speakers are installed and crossovers are wired up.
Door matting:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/171942/6
A simple amp rack for an F-150 Crew Cab:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/171942/4
Give ya some ideas?
Swez
heretic on 09/4/2007 02:29:58
I will probably just have them dampen the doors during install, get it all done at the same time.
As for the amp rack: i will be building this with the help of my uncle once i get the second amp in. They did a nice job on the rack in those pictures.
I am actualy planning on going to my uncles tomorrow to build the subwoofer box. Should be fun. I will be taking pictures, and I will let you know how it turns out. Thanks again.
Adam
swez on 09/4/2007 08:13:19
Usually the best plan as the door panels only need to be removed once and it's done. It is time consuming work, but well worth the results.
Yes, it turned out well as Jeff and I were focused on simplicity and stealth for his amps and crossovers. Our goal was to design and fabricate something clean and simple, yet keep things out of sight and tidy as well. Glad you like our work.
On the sub enclosure, just follow JL's recommended specs for sealed or ported design. The specs are noted in the .pdf on this page: See page 4 for details.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?series_id=5
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/7591.pdf (Enclosure specs)
Swez
heretic on 09/12/2007 06:36:57
Question: Once i install the aftermarket HU, i will no longer be able to use my steering wheel to change stations and the volume. I am having a hard time finding a product that ive seen before online. I do not want to lose the steeringwheel capabilities.
~~~Edit: I found what i was looking for. Most of the searches i was typing in wasnt fitting the description, but i found it at last. Sorry.
Also- I have almost all the parts to my system and am looking to get everything installed within the next few weeks. First and foremost is making my box. Hopefuly it doesnt come down to buying a prebuilt crap box. We will see what happens tho.
swez on 09/12/2007 10:22:36
Have you determined which sub enclosure design is best for your needs? (Sealed or Vented?)
JL's 10W7 is a robust sub and 500 watts of bass is pretty demanding on the box needs. (3/4" MDF walls, 1.0" MDF front baffle are recommended)
This is a bit harder to find in prefab boxes and the tuning port specs are variable if you have to go prefab. In this parameter, tuning between 32 - 38 Hz will give very good results on low end bass.
Subzone's ZV110-1534 is a good match for the 10W7. This box is 1.5 cf and tuned at 34 Hz. (A very good fit if the dimensions will fit in your truck. Expect to pay about $125.00 + S/H for this one. That's not a bad price at all for a well built, vented enclosure.
Swez
http://www.subzoneusa.com/2005_zv-series.htm
heretic on 09/13/2007 02:30:58
I am going with a sealed box. As for the mdf board, i will not have trouble with that. We are getting all the wood we need free since he works and owns his own shop.
I got this sunday off from work and i expect to be going down there to bust out a box as well as a custom amp rack that i was thinking about. I will be taking pictures. Hope you guys like it!
Also just a quick update...
I am no longer going to buy the kicker amp for the speakers. I have decided to buy the JL 300/4. Both the 300/4 and the 500/1 have the same dimensions and should make my design look that much better.
Adam
Victor on 09/13/2007 03:27:01
That is a better choice of equipment u have made there.. good going..
heretic on 09/13/2007 06:08:53
I know you guys have said that capacitors arent a great investment. But out of curiosity, which brand would the few of you recommend? What what brand is considered top of the line for caps? And if i was to get one would i want a 5 or 10farad cap?
If i was to get the cap it would be ontop of the new battery and new alt. I understand that in a way it is audio jewelry, but i figure that since im already going to make it look nice, i might as well add that last little touch to it and make it look that much better.
swez on 09/13/2007 11:03:21
I cannot help ya there Heretic. I just don't believe in them and have not considered looking at them either. If you do go for a Cap, this amp would be fine with 1-5 Farads for the sub amp only. (No need to go larger) A digital voltage meter in the cap would be useful though.
Nice amp choices and you're gonnal love the way these amps work!
Swez
heretic on 09/15/2007 19:35:44
I am uncertain of the amperes needed for my amps to keep them happy. I was lookin at the specs but i must be blind. Im just trying to figure out the size of my alternator needed.
JL 500/1
JL 300/4
anyone have an idea on the required A's?
swez on 09/15/2007 19:53:11
These specs are in the manuals only. These amps do not have chassis fuses, so you'll want to use a fused D-block for them.
500/1 recommends a 50A fuse (page 3, last paragraph)
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/13320.pdf
300/4 recommends a 40A fuse (pg 3, last paragraph)
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/13192.pdf
Swez
heretic on 09/15/2007 23:36:14
Thank you swez. I think i might have stated my question wrong, but then again i am unsure of what i was asking too. I will know upon installation if i have enough power for everything to sound good. I have the 3 options the way i see it. Newer and bigger battery + new alternator, the Big 3, or to buy a separate battery to support all the equipment.
swez on 09/16/2007 07:06:29
Have helped a few guys with this pairing of amps and they are sweet. As for power consumption, the 500/1 is the most demading. (About 45A's peak draw)
Using a dedicated BAT, (Gel Cell type, Deep Cycle) for this amp would be an option if your stock ALT is under 120A's. The Big 3 wiring upgrade is also recommended.
The 300/4 will be fine off the main starter BAT. Since it only provides mid/highs, the current draw here is minimal. (35A's peak draw)
As for wiring, I would not use less than #4 wire as the main power line feed and a 100A inline fuse under the hood. If you went up to 1/0 power line and split it with a D-block, then #4 gage wires to feed each amp is adequate.
Comments?
Swez
PS Most welcome for the assistance! I like working with people who listen and pay attention. ;-)
heretic on 09/22/2007 07:07:57
Just a quick update and a bump to the thread.
I am having a professional best buy installer do the job for me outside of his work. I have trust in this guy and its going to be about half the price for the same work done, and i will be able to work with him and learn from it which is just better off in the end for myself.
Long thread i know, but there will be more updates to come, along with photos. Goodnight for now CK. <3
heretic on 10/7/2007 03:23:30
I have all the pieces to my puzzle except one. I need a dual amp kit and im looking for suggestions. As stated above, i have the JL 300/4 and the JL 500/1. Any suggestions on what brand to look for and what guages i will be needing?
swez on 10/7/2007 09:00:18
Street Wires and Knukonceptz have great wiring and hardware products at very reasonable prices.
The minimum gage wire here would be #4 as your main line and a pair of #8 lines off a D-block to feed your JL amps. Since this is a PU truck, the main line and RCA lengths need to be mapped out for the proper length of cabling. If you can keep your main power feed line under 16 feet, this would be good and use an 80 - 100A mini-ANL fuse at the battery
Note: JL amps do not have fuses. You'll may want to use a fused D-block for them. AGU style glass fuses are good:
500/1: 50A fuse
300/4: 40A fuse
http://www.knukonceptz.com/ (Wire, D-block, fuses etc.)
Swez
heretic on 10/7/2007 19:42:40
Thank you. Looks like i still have a few more things to purchase. Do i only need on of the small AGU fuses for each amp? Or do i need a few? Sorry if thats a dumb question, it just looks like such a minimal item to be that helpful.
I also listed a link to a d-block that i was looking at, let me know if u give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KNF-22D
Also, do i need a ground/power distribution block as well? Or is that the same thing?
swez on 10/7/2007 21:50:54
This D-block is more than adequate and much less in price. Here, use AGU type glass fuses and have a spare for each amp on hand.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BC-1428
The grounding type D-block is nice, but not really needed. This will match and do a nice job if you want that option:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BC-1428
Also, look at the RCA's offered by KNU. They have a 4 channel kit for your 300/4 and a 2 channel pair for the 500/1:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KARSS4.4M
This is 13 feet of cable, (4 channels) depending on the amp location used, this would be enough for under the front seat or perhaps on the rear wall of your truck) Use a matching pair of 2 channel cables for your sub amp)
What say you?
Swez
heretic on 10/8/2007 00:41:55
When you say, "have a spare for each amp on hand" does that mean to just buy 2 for each amp in case one blows?
And thank you for the link to the RCA's. That looks like a good deal.
heretic on 10/8/2007 00:59:41
Also, just to clarify for my knowledge... the #4 gauge wire goes in, and two #8 gauge wires go out, one for each amp?
And do i need a Mini-ANL fuse holder? Or is that not needed? Here is the one i was looking at...
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=FH-20
this one includes a free Mini-ANL fuse of your choice.
swez on 10/8/2007 06:01:34
Yes, these are a good deal and very solid products. Have used them on a few installs and like the quality and prices here.
Main fuse/holder at battery: (Get 2, 100A fuses for this holder)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=FH-44
About the fused D-block, yes... this is a #4 input and has 2 x #8 outputs. Each #8 will feed 1 amp. As for the fuses, you can buy 4 AGU 40A fuses and this will give you 2 spare fuses.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=AGU40
Are we clear on this part of the buy list?
Swez
heretic on 10/8/2007 14:51:04
Dont i want 2 AGU 40a fuses and 2 AGU 50a fuses? Only reason i ask that is because you stated that i needed 40a for the 300/4 and a 50a for the 500/1.
And yes, this is the last stuff i need in order to get it installed. Thank you again.
swez on 10/8/2007 23:58:44
I ran some current draw calcs on the 500/1 and at 500 watts, it draws under 37 amps, so using 40A fuses are OK. If you blow a 40 on this amp, the gain settings are too strong. (High distortion values)
500/13.8 = 36.2A's current draw (RMS)
The only other thing you'll need is speaker wire. This can be #16 gage for the 300/4 speakers and #12 gage for your sub. You can buy this at a local hardware store as needed. Most welcome heretic... I enjoy watching/helping guys like you. (Eager to learn, asks good questions and follows up well) ;~) You're gonna love the way this system comes out.
Swez
heretic on 10/9/2007 06:55:53
I am SO anxious to get everything in there. I have been very eager to learn, and im almost to the point where i would want to install it all myself, but i know that i would rather have it done right, and not mess with my car.
swez on 10/9/2007 22:57:37
Listen to your inner insticts for now. If you think you are not ready to take on such a complex project, pay a Pro and then do the tweaking on your own. (I'll guide you)
This Pro installer you mentioned, what is he offering to do for you as part of his services? One has to weight the costs and if they are up to the various tasks needed. The rest is up to the user. Yes, a cut rate deal is fine for a side job. But the user has the last say. If the installer does his job well and at a fair price, that's a win-win deal.
When I made a deal to do a similar job, the owner came to my place, (From IN to MI) we worked together on the job. He/they matted the doors /rear wall and had the HU/EQ installed. I did the the wiring, sub, speakers and tweaks. It took 2.5 days in all and we had a blast.
This was a "total stealth install" too. No one could tell what was actually done and where the amps/sub were located. We used stock speaker locations, but the way we planned the install came out fabulously. This was a Ford F-150 Super Crew Cab.
Yes, we did eat the clock, but the end results were all worth it. (Buddies don't come easy... but this one did) It was our 1st SQL install of this magnitude, but the results were well worth it... you'll see soon enough. SMILE
Swez
Yes, we took our time and had a great time in the process. We all learned a few things. The best part was the down time each night. We planned the next set of moves, swapped a few stories and ended up with an excellent result.
heretic on 10/10/2007 05:44:16
See, now that sounds like a lot of fun, and something i would want to do. Recently (past few months) i have been considering going and taking classes at a trade school for car audio electronics. Classes that teach you about everything from A to Z. If i had the extra money to do that i would take those classes in a heart beat. The automobile industry is where i want to be for now. Whether its fixing engines, transmissions, brake jobs, or audio, i know that it is the field i am headed for as of now.
As a side not, i have yet to go into detail with the installer on all the installation needed. So until he knows the magnitude of the job, i wont be certain of a price. If he asks for more then $300 i will most likely have Circuit City do the install for the soul fact that I will have a warranty on the installation and i know it will be done right, and that i can take it to them during any open business hour. Whereas i would have to wait to get a hold of my buddy.
swez on 10/12/2007 04:35:25
Again, follow that inner prompting as your guide to the short-term future and long-term goals.
Electronics is a very deep subject and has many phases to master. An automotive Tech is very specialized and takes some time to become proficient at it. In the early stages of schooling, theres a lot of theory, math and the hands on labs are most beneficial. At a good vocational school, 2-3 years and several certs would get your foot in the door nicely. Once you get the basics under your belt, then specialize. A 4 year degree from an expensive college or university is not needed in this case.
It pays very well, has very good earnings potentials and demand will be high for these specialists as cars rely more on computers and electronic devices and even more to come later. This is a goal worth investigating deeply before one launches out into this career path.
If you wanted to become a bonified Electrical/Mechanical Engineer or designer, that requires a 4 year degree and then move to a Master's Degree later. The pay is better, but look at the long-term demands/pay for these skills before taking that plunge.
OK, that's an overview and snapshot to chew on for a while. Think it over, talk to people that are now doing what you think you'd like to do in the future and then map out a plan to get there.
As for this install, plan on spending $250 - 300.00 for the works. (Labor and shop supplies) It's not "Rocket Science" here, but one has to be well-rounded in mechanical and electrical aspects of how to take things apart, install said gear and then put it all back together in such a way that it looks like a well-finished product.
Fortunately, many newer US made trucks are designed well and somewhat easier to work on than most sedans. The trick is learning how to take panels off, install your gear and put things back in order so that everything looks like it did before you started. This takes patience, good mechanical skills and a few good hand tools.
If you go the Circuit City route, pray you get one of their best installers that knows this truck well. If you get a "lacky" on this install, many take shortcuts to speed up the shop time, (They get paid to get cars out fast)but the results are often well below what you could accomplish on your own in the course of a weekend or so. It's just a job to most typical Big Box installers and they'll never see you again after the job is done. (So they hope)
A skilled Tech takes his time, pays attention to the details and the results are often superior in the end. These guys are serious about their work. Yes, they are well paid for that extra attention to details, but that's why the results are first rate too. This is their passion and expertise. (We get what we paid for too)
Think this over before you jump in OK?
Swez
heretic on 10/14/2007 03:07:10
Very well put. I was aware of all the time and effort needed to go into this field, but dont know the true details. I have always been a math wiz and an excelent problem solver as well as designer. I just want to be able to optimize my skills and learn the trade. As you said, there are the passionate workers, and the ones who would rather take the short cut. I have never been one to take short cuts on anything that i am passionate about. I just hope that I am able to get my life on track towards that direction.
As for the install, I have great news. My buddie's friend who I talked to said that he would do the install for $200. Much less then i expected. Whats even better is that he is willing to make this a multiple day project and allow me to do hands on work with him. I will be trying to stay out of the way, but he plans on talking his way through. And whats even better is that he said if I was to help him, that he would charge me less for install because i would be doing part of the work myself. I see a win win situation here =]
swez on 10/14/2007 08:32:14
Excellent strategy here. Let him do the complex stuff while you observe and work on the easy things. He'll guide you and if you get stuck, he can show you the way back to the right track. If you can install the speakers and help him run wires, that would be a good place to focus your hands.
One thing we have not talked about, is adding sound dampening materials to the front doors. This is something you can do with minimal supervision and the cost is well worth the efforts. It's time consuming work, but the benefits are many. Since the door panels have to be removed anyway, why not do this step too?
The trick is to clean the metal door panels with denatured alcohol first. This will provide excellent adhesion and stick very well. The rest is pretty much cutting strips of matting to fit and "roll them on tight" afterwards. A laminate roller is the right tool here. The rest of the tools are sharp sissors, a sharp utility knife, a can of cleaner and clean rags. (Paper towels can leave lint and paper dust, so use lint free shop rags) They can dry out, be washed later and used again.
How's that sound?
Swez
heretic on 10/16/2007 23:34:17
This was talked about between Keith (friend's buddy) and myself. But I am glad you were able to remember as well. Thank you for all the effort you have put towards helping me accomplish my task. I am very grateful for this site. =]
Unfortunately I lost my credit card, so until i get a new one in the mail I am unable to make a donation. But u can be sure that as soon as i receive it that i will donate to this site because i would love to keep it running so that others can prosper from its benefits as I did.
swez on 10/17/2007 04:13:38
You are most welcome!
It's really satisfying to watch a guy come to the board with a plan, an open mind and a healthy budget and make some magic happen over time. (You'll see/hear the results in short order)
BTW, it's been a pleasure working with you too. Keep us posted on the progress OK?
Swez
PS Walt can acccept checks and money orders too. His mailing address can be found at the bottom of the green box below by clicking on the "Privacy Policy" link. ;-)
heretic on 10/29/2007 18:06:03
Hey again. To keep it short and sweet i just built my box and amp rack yesterday. I have pictures that i will be posting links for later. I am in a crunch for time right now, i have to go to work and do some things today. Just thought i would let you all know i am 90% there.
swez on 10/29/2007 23:12:30
Post them as you have time... I'd like to see your ideas and how they panned out. (Photobucket or Car Domain are good options)
Swez
-Pioneer DEH-P5900IB in dash reciever
-Polk Audio 6.5" Component Speakers (db6501) for the front and back doors.
-Kicker Zx-350.4 Amplifier
-Jl audio 10w7 subwoofer
-Jl audio 500/1 amplifier
-Tsunami PP1010DM 10 Farad Capacitor
I already have the Jl 10w7 and the 500/1. I've heard good things about Polk audio speakers and i am hoping that my w7 does not drown out the sound. So basicaly im just lookin for advice or suggestions that i could do for around the same price and quality of sound. Thanks in advance.
Replies (53)
Victor on 08/29/2007 08:11:04
that is a sensible choice of SQL equipment you got there... it is going to be a balanced system in all aspects.. just one suggestion, opt for a sealed enclosure for that sub if you are keen on tight clean crisp quality bass....
exit the capacitor as its just audio jewelery...
just a big 3 upgrade should be enough....
to have more information regarding this... please read the following links in detail
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g5316
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g3481
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
instead use that money in some sound damping mats or paint.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g4137
hope this helps.. and you are eager to learn yourself using the resources provided.
of course we are here if you are confused or don't understand somethings....
welcome to CK.
COFFEE..
Victor...
swez on 08/29/2007 09:30:22
Welcome to CK!
Agreed, nice package and sound dampening the doors and perhaps the rear wall would be in order here. This will keep the rattles to a minimum and keep the sound inside the truck nice when the windows are shut.
Do you know the specs on the electrical package in this truck? It would be great if you have a towing package and about 140 ampere ALT. If a bit less, the Big 3 wiring upgrade and a high CCA rated battery would be a good bet. (Forget the Cap) Use that cash for a better battery and wiring needs.
You will also like the Polks and with that much amping power, they will keep up with your sub. (+60 Wrms x 4 here and very efficient speakers too) Have you picked out your wiring and hardware needs yet?
Swez
heretic on 08/29/2007 16:31:05
I have yet to buy all the wiring and harware kits needed. Originaly Circuitcity was going to do the job on the wiring, but im not sure if 400 is even reasonable, for just labor, to install this stuff. I know that pretty much it will be all new wiring to each speaker, to each amp, and to the head unit. This is out of my league to do and thus i was going to have someone trusted do it. Sorry to ask a stupid question, but i looked through the owners manual and at the car, but i am unaware of the "ampere" on the ALT. How would i check this?
Also, i fail to see why you wouldnt want to use a capacitor. I figure u know more than i and that you are right, but if u could just inform me on why it would just be a waste of money.
heretic on 08/30/2007 01:18:13
would those alternators even be strong enough? cuz it says 117ampere for almost all of them. swez said that i should look for one above that, around 140. are those types of alternators alot more expensive or they just not needed? id assume that my safest bet is to get "the Big 3 wiring upgrade and a high CCA rated battery". if u have another idea let me know. also, i would assume that my alternator would be just fine and would be around the same ampere, but thats just me hoping that.
Victor on 08/30/2007 02:31:52
Is there anything written on the alternator, any numbers embossed or any sticker...
if so.. what does it read...??
once your install is done and you use the system for a few days you will be able to decide whether a battery and then an alternator upgrade is necessary..
if there is some minor dimming of interior lights then just a big 3 upgrade would suffice...
if there is heavy dimming of the interior lights as well as the head lamps then you surely need one..
if the battery and amp do not keep up with the amps current draw then you shall notice heavy distortions at volumes around 60% due to clipping.... a steep cut in the high frequency reproduction... and very muddy bass.... coupled with improper functioning of all lighting equipments installed in the car.
for now... get the install done.. and play it around for a few days before you decide onto anything...
of course doing a big 3 would be no harm and only beneficial.. at this point no use in spending money in the alt and battery before u even install this system..
with a 117 amp alt and a big 3 i guess it should suffice... if not then we can take this ahead with other electrical upgrade later...
electrical upgrades go like this..
1 - wiring/cabling/big 3
2 - battery
3 - alt
so lets take it step by step, if and when necessary...
Victor...
heretic on 08/30/2007 03:42:41
sounds good. thank you very much so far.
but my last question, which will be easiest one so far is... what is this "big 3 upgrade" u talk about.
Victor on 08/30/2007 04:45:19
I am disappointed..... looks like u still haven't bothered to go through the links posted above...
care to look at it now...??? it has got a link that will lead u to probably the best Big 3 explanation on the Internet.....
Victor...
when links are posted, you should ideally be going through em....COFFEE
heretic on 08/30/2007 05:13:17
figures that was the one link i didnt click on. i read in full about the capacitors and all the other links, but that one i guess i skipped over. m bad. to prove i found it the big 3 are...
1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine
thank you again. ill update later once i have stuff goin.
Victor on 08/30/2007 07:57:49
do document this project with notes and pics at each level... it will be a very useful learning experience you could share with others....
Victor...COFFEE
swez on 08/30/2007 16:42:23
The power requirements needed for this package are pretty much based on how hard you like to push the system and the type of music will also dictate that as well. (The sub amp is the most demanding current draw device mentioned) It depends on how hard driving you like your bass.
The Big 3 is easy to do and just add larger wires to the exsisting ones you have now. In this case, #4 gage would be adequate for the Big 3 upgrade.
As for the main power line that feeds both amps mentioned, I would use 1/0 gage for the main cable and then split that with a fused Distribution Block for each amp. (#4 gage power and grounds are good here)
As for Circuit City doing the install, it really depends on the skill of the Tech that does the work. If you get one of their "A" installers, they'll do it well. If you get a rookie, it's hit or miss. The price range they quoted is about right for this level of work if it includes all install work + extra hardware needs.
As for the ALT/BAT power needs, a 117A may do the trick here with a few minor modifications. We start with the Big 3 wiring, look at the Battery storage capacity next and if these don't cut it, the last step is a High Output ALT. (roughly $1.50/ampere is a good number estimate)
In your case, I would tend to use the stock ALT and add a dedicated battery for the JL 500/1 amp. This battery is superior to a CAP and cost is about the same. (800 - 1000 CCA BAT here) Stock battery used for the rest of the vehicle needs and also powers the 4 channel amp.
Where are you located geographically? I ask this as we have talented installers on this site that do side jobs and if you live near one of them, this may be a good option for quality workmanship and a fair install price for all your needs.
Finally, since you have picked out some very nice gear, don't scrimp on the hardware and labor aspects of this install. If the job is low-balled and you are not happy, someone else will have to do the work over and this will cost more in the long run. (Do it well the 1st time out)
Comments?
Swez
heretic on 08/31/2007 04:10:07
i live in souther california. neer san diego. if u know of any place in particular that u think would be better to go to let me know. otherwise i was gonna let circuit city do it, and the guy said for this setup he wont be giving me an amatuer. so we will see...
swez on 08/31/2007 09:39:37
Cannot think of any CK members in that area that are actively doing install work at the level you have outlined so far. With a little good fortune, a well skilled tech will do this project well for you.
After the initial install is completed, you may need some help dialing in your system for optimal performance and insure that the amps have adequate power from the electrical system as well. It will be evident that a need is present to do some electrical upgrades if you note severe light dimming on long, deep bass hits. We can walk you through these steps if they are needed.
Swez
PS Vic, I deleted your link on ALT's to bring this post and threads back to a readable format. I hope you have that link handy if needed later. I don't normally do this w/o permission from the writer, but it really made this post hard to read. (Don't feel offended... it was not malicious) ;-)
Victor on 08/31/2007 10:08:08
COFFEE....
anyways it was just a link searched off google... with the key words being
""2000 dodge durango alternator""
heretic on 08/31/2007 13:11:01
i was thinking of going over to tweeter after the initial install and seeing if they would tweak the setting a bit since they have a far more vast knowledge than circuit city does, only downfall is they charge more for stuff. thus thats why im going to CC. =] do u think that taking it somewhere after the install that the place will charge me for fine tuning?
swez on 08/31/2007 15:31:58
In most cases, the installer will do the initial tweaks and balance checks as part of the install fee. If you are not satisfied with the results you have 3 main options:
1. Go back to the installer for services (Often, no extra fees)
2. Hire an indepedent shop to tweak as needed (Depending on the extent of the services and time spent, the fee is often negotiable)
3. Learn the details of the gear you have and tweak it yourself (This is the best option as one gets to know the features and how they interact with each other)
For #3 option, we can guide you as needed. The only real expense is likely to be a low cost Digital Multimeter. ($20.00) There is time involved on the users part, but this is good for the user as they learn the details w/o having to rely on or pay others for things one can often do themselves to their own satifaction. (Every install is unique to the preferences of the listener and the gear installed) Learning how to optimize them to "the users preferences" are always a plus.
It's not "Rocket Science" level things to do either. Common sense and some good coaching will help the user to tailor the system to their own preferences.
Swez
PS If you do choose option 3 and use CK as your supportive aid, it is good etiquitte to set aside a reasonable donation for the site. If the process is extensive and you want one-on-one coaching, it is good form to offer a "gratuity" for the help received. ;-)
Victor on 08/31/2007 16:53:18
why just for tweaking... i am sure we at CK can walk you through this entire install, and am sure by the end of it you would have learnt a lot for yourself to tweak as well as trouble shoot your own system...
CK is a free forum and we help everyone here for free...
ofcourse we do need funds to keep up the site,
$$$ are generally funded most by generous donations from members who have actually found this place helpful and are happy with the results...many of them have done installs better than a professional at circuit city could ever do...
'Walter Hargrave' the admin and creator of this site does a lot of hard work to keep this site updated and many golds contributing generously with invaluable knowledge and $$$ too.....
If you are up for it and are willing to work on your own, if you are a bit inquisitive and have some science back ground, if you are comfortable working with tools then this should be an easy walk through for the install....
Think about it and let us know, theres a lot of experience and knowledge on CK for free, and its a lot better than the locally found learned men in car audio who are ready to pounce on your money for a crappy install, make the best use of it...THINK
Internet is a Blessing....((( Walt can we have a 'Praying' & an 'Angel' smiley here... please...??? Thanks in advance COFFEE)))
Victor...
Instead of spending $ 400 just for the install labor, you could get all your electrical upgrades done for that money u save by doing the install yourself, and also build urself a good sub-enclosure....
heretic on 09/1/2007 03:49:53
I thought about doing the job myself. But i would HATE to even take a chance at screwing something up. If i get it installed by circuitcity and buy the speakers from them... i can blow those speakers out as many times as i want in the next 4 years and have it covered under their warranty. whereas if i do it myself and blow it out on accident, i just look like an ignorant wanabe installer. At the end of all of this i would be happy to make a donation tho. It has been very helpful and answered many questions even at ungodly hours (victor =] ).
My uncle is a very skilled contractor and is making a good living doing what hes doing because hes good at it and people know him. He is going to help me build my subwoofer box (hes done his own too). I figured that would be the smartest thing, because A - he has all the tools. B - hes skilled with caulking guns and glue. C - he can get the MDF board free from his jobs and his work. and D - hes built his own custom box before as well.
As of right now, i have decided to buy the 4ch amp online (cheapest route) as well as the Steering Wheel remote for after market decks. I am going to stick to buying the speakers from circuit city because they offer that huge warranty ($50 for 4 years) and because you buy one set and get the second set half off.
I work two jobs and have a gf. I dont have much time to do anything for myself (like installing this). I would love to learn how to tweek my own settings and use the digital meter as Swez talked about. I think that is a great idea, and would be very smart. But thats not until everything is in the car.
-Adam
swez on 09/1/2007 13:29:17
CK Techs have helped hundreds of guys do their own installs and most have come out very well if:
1. The user had a good mechanical sense and proper tools
2. Is motivated to learn
3. Has the time available
4. Follows instructions well
5. Has a solid game plan and reads the manuals as needed
With all the factors you have noted so far, it may be the best option to have the work done by a Pro Installer. Doing a project of this magnitude for the first time alone, will eat up your free time and drive a wedge with most g/f relationships. (She'll probably resent all the time spent and feel discounted... we know that drill well) SMILE
Anyway, you have some great gear on the build list. Having your uncle build the sub enclosure would be a good option and perhaps you can discuss building a custom amp rack that tucks the amps under the rear seats too. (Stealth install to hide the goods) Are you also planning to have the doors dampened when they install your Polks? It's well worth the effort and extra cost. (Quiets the interior against road noise and dampens and rattles too)
Good luck and keep us posted as you move along,
Swez
PS Victor is from India. That translates to a + 9.5 hour time zone shift from EDT. (Meaning 12:00 Noon in NY is 9:30 PM in his zone)
Victor on 09/1/2007 16:59:43
yeah.... definitely not ungodly hours for me here.... GRIN though right now its 2:30 am here.... lol... i never sleep on time...
keep us posted with the install...
we keep all members of CK on mind, and wait for their response... many just vanish into thin air once their purpose is solved...
if you do have time to supervise the install .. do take pictures and notes at every stage.. it shall be helpful to many.
Wish you luck...
Victor...
Ps: DO NOT IGNORE SOUND DAMPING, EITHER USE DAMPING PAINT OR MATS ON DOORS AND TRUNK.
heretic on 09/2/2007 04:52:09
I will definately log all progress. A custom rack for the amps would be a great idea, thank you for reminding me. As for the dampening of the doors, is it best to dampen BEFORE or AFTER the install??
-Adam
swez on 09/2/2007 11:17:19
You can do it either way. Most guys do this while/after the speakers are installed and crossovers are wired up.
Door matting:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/171942/6
A simple amp rack for an F-150 Crew Cab:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/171942/4
Give ya some ideas?
Swez
heretic on 09/4/2007 02:29:58
I will probably just have them dampen the doors during install, get it all done at the same time.
As for the amp rack: i will be building this with the help of my uncle once i get the second amp in. They did a nice job on the rack in those pictures.
I am actualy planning on going to my uncles tomorrow to build the subwoofer box. Should be fun. I will be taking pictures, and I will let you know how it turns out. Thanks again.
Adam
swez on 09/4/2007 08:13:19
Usually the best plan as the door panels only need to be removed once and it's done. It is time consuming work, but well worth the results.
Yes, it turned out well as Jeff and I were focused on simplicity and stealth for his amps and crossovers. Our goal was to design and fabricate something clean and simple, yet keep things out of sight and tidy as well. Glad you like our work.
On the sub enclosure, just follow JL's recommended specs for sealed or ported design. The specs are noted in the .pdf on this page: See page 4 for details.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?series_id=5
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/7591.pdf (Enclosure specs)
Swez
heretic on 09/12/2007 06:36:57
Question: Once i install the aftermarket HU, i will no longer be able to use my steering wheel to change stations and the volume. I am having a hard time finding a product that ive seen before online. I do not want to lose the steeringwheel capabilities.
~~~Edit: I found what i was looking for. Most of the searches i was typing in wasnt fitting the description, but i found it at last. Sorry.
Also- I have almost all the parts to my system and am looking to get everything installed within the next few weeks. First and foremost is making my box. Hopefuly it doesnt come down to buying a prebuilt crap box. We will see what happens tho.
swez on 09/12/2007 10:22:36
Have you determined which sub enclosure design is best for your needs? (Sealed or Vented?)
JL's 10W7 is a robust sub and 500 watts of bass is pretty demanding on the box needs. (3/4" MDF walls, 1.0" MDF front baffle are recommended)
This is a bit harder to find in prefab boxes and the tuning port specs are variable if you have to go prefab. In this parameter, tuning between 32 - 38 Hz will give very good results on low end bass.
Subzone's ZV110-1534 is a good match for the 10W7. This box is 1.5 cf and tuned at 34 Hz. (A very good fit if the dimensions will fit in your truck. Expect to pay about $125.00 + S/H for this one. That's not a bad price at all for a well built, vented enclosure.
Swez
http://www.subzoneusa.com/2005_zv-series.htm
heretic on 09/13/2007 02:30:58
I am going with a sealed box. As for the mdf board, i will not have trouble with that. We are getting all the wood we need free since he works and owns his own shop.
I got this sunday off from work and i expect to be going down there to bust out a box as well as a custom amp rack that i was thinking about. I will be taking pictures. Hope you guys like it!
Also just a quick update...
I am no longer going to buy the kicker amp for the speakers. I have decided to buy the JL 300/4. Both the 300/4 and the 500/1 have the same dimensions and should make my design look that much better.
Adam
Victor on 09/13/2007 03:27:01
That is a better choice of equipment u have made there.. good going..
heretic on 09/13/2007 06:08:53
I know you guys have said that capacitors arent a great investment. But out of curiosity, which brand would the few of you recommend? What what brand is considered top of the line for caps? And if i was to get one would i want a 5 or 10farad cap?
If i was to get the cap it would be ontop of the new battery and new alt. I understand that in a way it is audio jewelry, but i figure that since im already going to make it look nice, i might as well add that last little touch to it and make it look that much better.
swez on 09/13/2007 11:03:21
I cannot help ya there Heretic. I just don't believe in them and have not considered looking at them either. If you do go for a Cap, this amp would be fine with 1-5 Farads for the sub amp only. (No need to go larger) A digital voltage meter in the cap would be useful though.
Nice amp choices and you're gonnal love the way these amps work!
Swez
heretic on 09/15/2007 19:35:44
I am uncertain of the amperes needed for my amps to keep them happy. I was lookin at the specs but i must be blind. Im just trying to figure out the size of my alternator needed.
JL 500/1
JL 300/4
anyone have an idea on the required A's?
swez on 09/15/2007 19:53:11
These specs are in the manuals only. These amps do not have chassis fuses, so you'll want to use a fused D-block for them.
500/1 recommends a 50A fuse (page 3, last paragraph)
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/13320.pdf
300/4 recommends a 40A fuse (pg 3, last paragraph)
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/13192.pdf
Swez
heretic on 09/15/2007 23:36:14
Thank you swez. I think i might have stated my question wrong, but then again i am unsure of what i was asking too. I will know upon installation if i have enough power for everything to sound good. I have the 3 options the way i see it. Newer and bigger battery + new alternator, the Big 3, or to buy a separate battery to support all the equipment.
swez on 09/16/2007 07:06:29
Have helped a few guys with this pairing of amps and they are sweet. As for power consumption, the 500/1 is the most demading. (About 45A's peak draw)
Using a dedicated BAT, (Gel Cell type, Deep Cycle) for this amp would be an option if your stock ALT is under 120A's. The Big 3 wiring upgrade is also recommended.
The 300/4 will be fine off the main starter BAT. Since it only provides mid/highs, the current draw here is minimal. (35A's peak draw)
As for wiring, I would not use less than #4 wire as the main power line feed and a 100A inline fuse under the hood. If you went up to 1/0 power line and split it with a D-block, then #4 gage wires to feed each amp is adequate.
Comments?
Swez
PS Most welcome for the assistance! I like working with people who listen and pay attention. ;-)
heretic on 09/22/2007 07:07:57
Just a quick update and a bump to the thread.
I am having a professional best buy installer do the job for me outside of his work. I have trust in this guy and its going to be about half the price for the same work done, and i will be able to work with him and learn from it which is just better off in the end for myself.
Long thread i know, but there will be more updates to come, along with photos. Goodnight for now CK. <3
heretic on 10/7/2007 03:23:30
I have all the pieces to my puzzle except one. I need a dual amp kit and im looking for suggestions. As stated above, i have the JL 300/4 and the JL 500/1. Any suggestions on what brand to look for and what guages i will be needing?
swez on 10/7/2007 09:00:18
Street Wires and Knukonceptz have great wiring and hardware products at very reasonable prices.
The minimum gage wire here would be #4 as your main line and a pair of #8 lines off a D-block to feed your JL amps. Since this is a PU truck, the main line and RCA lengths need to be mapped out for the proper length of cabling. If you can keep your main power feed line under 16 feet, this would be good and use an 80 - 100A mini-ANL fuse at the battery
Note: JL amps do not have fuses. You'll may want to use a fused D-block for them. AGU style glass fuses are good:
500/1: 50A fuse
300/4: 40A fuse
http://www.knukonceptz.com/ (Wire, D-block, fuses etc.)
Swez
heretic on 10/7/2007 19:42:40
Thank you. Looks like i still have a few more things to purchase. Do i only need on of the small AGU fuses for each amp? Or do i need a few? Sorry if thats a dumb question, it just looks like such a minimal item to be that helpful.
I also listed a link to a d-block that i was looking at, let me know if u give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KNF-22D
Also, do i need a ground/power distribution block as well? Or is that the same thing?
swez on 10/7/2007 21:50:54
This D-block is more than adequate and much less in price. Here, use AGU type glass fuses and have a spare for each amp on hand.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BC-1428
The grounding type D-block is nice, but not really needed. This will match and do a nice job if you want that option:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BC-1428
Also, look at the RCA's offered by KNU. They have a 4 channel kit for your 300/4 and a 2 channel pair for the 500/1:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KARSS4.4M
This is 13 feet of cable, (4 channels) depending on the amp location used, this would be enough for under the front seat or perhaps on the rear wall of your truck) Use a matching pair of 2 channel cables for your sub amp)
What say you?
Swez
heretic on 10/8/2007 00:41:55
When you say, "have a spare for each amp on hand" does that mean to just buy 2 for each amp in case one blows?
And thank you for the link to the RCA's. That looks like a good deal.
heretic on 10/8/2007 00:59:41
Also, just to clarify for my knowledge... the #4 gauge wire goes in, and two #8 gauge wires go out, one for each amp?
And do i need a Mini-ANL fuse holder? Or is that not needed? Here is the one i was looking at...
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=FH-20
this one includes a free Mini-ANL fuse of your choice.
swez on 10/8/2007 06:01:34
Yes, these are a good deal and very solid products. Have used them on a few installs and like the quality and prices here.
Main fuse/holder at battery: (Get 2, 100A fuses for this holder)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=FH-44
About the fused D-block, yes... this is a #4 input and has 2 x #8 outputs. Each #8 will feed 1 amp. As for the fuses, you can buy 4 AGU 40A fuses and this will give you 2 spare fuses.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=AGU40
Are we clear on this part of the buy list?
Swez
heretic on 10/8/2007 14:51:04
Dont i want 2 AGU 40a fuses and 2 AGU 50a fuses? Only reason i ask that is because you stated that i needed 40a for the 300/4 and a 50a for the 500/1.
And yes, this is the last stuff i need in order to get it installed. Thank you again.
swez on 10/8/2007 23:58:44
I ran some current draw calcs on the 500/1 and at 500 watts, it draws under 37 amps, so using 40A fuses are OK. If you blow a 40 on this amp, the gain settings are too strong. (High distortion values)
500/13.8 = 36.2A's current draw (RMS)
The only other thing you'll need is speaker wire. This can be #16 gage for the 300/4 speakers and #12 gage for your sub. You can buy this at a local hardware store as needed. Most welcome heretic... I enjoy watching/helping guys like you. (Eager to learn, asks good questions and follows up well) ;~) You're gonna love the way this system comes out.
Swez
heretic on 10/9/2007 06:55:53
I am SO anxious to get everything in there. I have been very eager to learn, and im almost to the point where i would want to install it all myself, but i know that i would rather have it done right, and not mess with my car.
swez on 10/9/2007 22:57:37
Listen to your inner insticts for now. If you think you are not ready to take on such a complex project, pay a Pro and then do the tweaking on your own. (I'll guide you)
This Pro installer you mentioned, what is he offering to do for you as part of his services? One has to weight the costs and if they are up to the various tasks needed. The rest is up to the user. Yes, a cut rate deal is fine for a side job. But the user has the last say. If the installer does his job well and at a fair price, that's a win-win deal.
When I made a deal to do a similar job, the owner came to my place, (From IN to MI) we worked together on the job. He/they matted the doors /rear wall and had the HU/EQ installed. I did the the wiring, sub, speakers and tweaks. It took 2.5 days in all and we had a blast.
This was a "total stealth install" too. No one could tell what was actually done and where the amps/sub were located. We used stock speaker locations, but the way we planned the install came out fabulously. This was a Ford F-150 Super Crew Cab.
Yes, we did eat the clock, but the end results were all worth it. (Buddies don't come easy... but this one did) It was our 1st SQL install of this magnitude, but the results were well worth it... you'll see soon enough. SMILE
Swez
Yes, we took our time and had a great time in the process. We all learned a few things. The best part was the down time each night. We planned the next set of moves, swapped a few stories and ended up with an excellent result.
heretic on 10/10/2007 05:44:16
See, now that sounds like a lot of fun, and something i would want to do. Recently (past few months) i have been considering going and taking classes at a trade school for car audio electronics. Classes that teach you about everything from A to Z. If i had the extra money to do that i would take those classes in a heart beat. The automobile industry is where i want to be for now. Whether its fixing engines, transmissions, brake jobs, or audio, i know that it is the field i am headed for as of now.
As a side not, i have yet to go into detail with the installer on all the installation needed. So until he knows the magnitude of the job, i wont be certain of a price. If he asks for more then $300 i will most likely have Circuit City do the install for the soul fact that I will have a warranty on the installation and i know it will be done right, and that i can take it to them during any open business hour. Whereas i would have to wait to get a hold of my buddy.
swez on 10/12/2007 04:35:25
Again, follow that inner prompting as your guide to the short-term future and long-term goals.
Electronics is a very deep subject and has many phases to master. An automotive Tech is very specialized and takes some time to become proficient at it. In the early stages of schooling, theres a lot of theory, math and the hands on labs are most beneficial. At a good vocational school, 2-3 years and several certs would get your foot in the door nicely. Once you get the basics under your belt, then specialize. A 4 year degree from an expensive college or university is not needed in this case.
It pays very well, has very good earnings potentials and demand will be high for these specialists as cars rely more on computers and electronic devices and even more to come later. This is a goal worth investigating deeply before one launches out into this career path.
If you wanted to become a bonified Electrical/Mechanical Engineer or designer, that requires a 4 year degree and then move to a Master's Degree later. The pay is better, but look at the long-term demands/pay for these skills before taking that plunge.
OK, that's an overview and snapshot to chew on for a while. Think it over, talk to people that are now doing what you think you'd like to do in the future and then map out a plan to get there.
As for this install, plan on spending $250 - 300.00 for the works. (Labor and shop supplies) It's not "Rocket Science" here, but one has to be well-rounded in mechanical and electrical aspects of how to take things apart, install said gear and then put it all back together in such a way that it looks like a well-finished product.
Fortunately, many newer US made trucks are designed well and somewhat easier to work on than most sedans. The trick is learning how to take panels off, install your gear and put things back in order so that everything looks like it did before you started. This takes patience, good mechanical skills and a few good hand tools.
If you go the Circuit City route, pray you get one of their best installers that knows this truck well. If you get a "lacky" on this install, many take shortcuts to speed up the shop time, (They get paid to get cars out fast)but the results are often well below what you could accomplish on your own in the course of a weekend or so. It's just a job to most typical Big Box installers and they'll never see you again after the job is done. (So they hope)
A skilled Tech takes his time, pays attention to the details and the results are often superior in the end. These guys are serious about their work. Yes, they are well paid for that extra attention to details, but that's why the results are first rate too. This is their passion and expertise. (We get what we paid for too)
Think this over before you jump in OK?
Swez
heretic on 10/14/2007 03:07:10
Very well put. I was aware of all the time and effort needed to go into this field, but dont know the true details. I have always been a math wiz and an excelent problem solver as well as designer. I just want to be able to optimize my skills and learn the trade. As you said, there are the passionate workers, and the ones who would rather take the short cut. I have never been one to take short cuts on anything that i am passionate about. I just hope that I am able to get my life on track towards that direction.
As for the install, I have great news. My buddie's friend who I talked to said that he would do the install for $200. Much less then i expected. Whats even better is that he is willing to make this a multiple day project and allow me to do hands on work with him. I will be trying to stay out of the way, but he plans on talking his way through. And whats even better is that he said if I was to help him, that he would charge me less for install because i would be doing part of the work myself. I see a win win situation here =]
swez on 10/14/2007 08:32:14
Excellent strategy here. Let him do the complex stuff while you observe and work on the easy things. He'll guide you and if you get stuck, he can show you the way back to the right track. If you can install the speakers and help him run wires, that would be a good place to focus your hands.
One thing we have not talked about, is adding sound dampening materials to the front doors. This is something you can do with minimal supervision and the cost is well worth the efforts. It's time consuming work, but the benefits are many. Since the door panels have to be removed anyway, why not do this step too?
The trick is to clean the metal door panels with denatured alcohol first. This will provide excellent adhesion and stick very well. The rest is pretty much cutting strips of matting to fit and "roll them on tight" afterwards. A laminate roller is the right tool here. The rest of the tools are sharp sissors, a sharp utility knife, a can of cleaner and clean rags. (Paper towels can leave lint and paper dust, so use lint free shop rags) They can dry out, be washed later and used again.
How's that sound?
Swez
heretic on 10/16/2007 23:34:17
This was talked about between Keith (friend's buddy) and myself. But I am glad you were able to remember as well. Thank you for all the effort you have put towards helping me accomplish my task. I am very grateful for this site. =]
Unfortunately I lost my credit card, so until i get a new one in the mail I am unable to make a donation. But u can be sure that as soon as i receive it that i will donate to this site because i would love to keep it running so that others can prosper from its benefits as I did.
swez on 10/17/2007 04:13:38
You are most welcome!
It's really satisfying to watch a guy come to the board with a plan, an open mind and a healthy budget and make some magic happen over time. (You'll see/hear the results in short order)
BTW, it's been a pleasure working with you too. Keep us posted on the progress OK?
Swez
PS Walt can acccept checks and money orders too. His mailing address can be found at the bottom of the green box below by clicking on the "Privacy Policy" link. ;-)
heretic on 10/29/2007 18:06:03
Hey again. To keep it short and sweet i just built my box and amp rack yesterday. I have pictures that i will be posting links for later. I am in a crunch for time right now, i have to go to work and do some things today. Just thought i would let you all know i am 90% there.
swez on 10/29/2007 23:12:30
Post them as you have time... I'd like to see your ideas and how they panned out. (Photobucket or Car Domain are good options)
Swez
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