Hey guys! I was wanting to know what the best enclosure for an Alpine TypeX 12 would be. I've been reading lots of forums and gotten really mixed reviews. Lots of people have said you get more db's from a ported enclosure but Im not a competitor and only bought it for nice loud sound. Which would be best sealed or slot ported? FYI it will be custom box either way. Just want the best sound for the money and im not afraid to spend it!
Also I bought an Alpine PDX-1.1000 amp to power it and wondering if it will push it if I wanted to crank it up to show it off. Have not recieved amp yet and can send back when recieved. Would like to know which amp would be a good one.
Replies (33)
kirchatndftbl on 08/11/2007 21:26:01
what kind of music do you listen too??? country and rock would be better for a sealed box while rap tends to be better when using a ported box
sealed provides for better punchier bass but can lack in the lower bass notes
while ported tends to provide more spl (louder) and provides better low bass
wire both voice colis parallel to the amp for a net 2 ohm load
http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1dvcparallel1yl.jpg
what kind of car is this goin in???
optimal sealed is .8cuft
optimal proted is 1.8cuft
http://vault.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM_SWX-1243D.PDF
newB on 08/12/2007 04:43:41
sealed vs. ported is very subjective.
i would test samle differnt ported/sealed boxes and make a judgement on response curve and "style" of sound and go from there.
-Drew
swez on 08/12/2007 06:19:12
The Alpine X series is pretty much an SPL sub. If one wants to squeeze every ounce of this low efficiency sub, vented is the choice. (1000 Wrms here) Vented optimal is 1.8 ft^3
If one wants more SQL, go sealed and optimize at 0.9 ft^3.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-raIAl6G9TGp/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&tab=detailed_info&i=500SWX1242#Tab
Swez
T-RAY on 08/12/2007 11:53:18
I guess the real problem with me is that i listen to rock and rap but never country! It puts me to sleep no bull! Like i said im not a competitor or anything, i just like to have bass with my rap and punch with my rock. Temporarily it will be going in an 84 prelude! Yeah i know... i spent more on the system than the actual car but it is only temp.
Guess what im tryin to do is get both from one and wonderin which would be best for the job. and about the amp would that be ample enough to push it hard if I wanted? If you were me what would you do (sealed/ported) and would fiberglass make any diff? I have one more question also... whats the deal with reverse mounting? Thanks for the insight though peeps!
swez on 08/12/2007 14:04:53
Most guys are very happy with sealed boxes for everyday use. You can still get very good lows for RAP by going sealed.
I would consider building a slightly larger box of say 1.1 f^3 sealed. If the bass is too boomy and sloppy, a few blocks of wood can be added internally until it sounds just right for all your music. Adding about 1 lb of poly fil would be fine too.
Inverse mounting the sub is OK and a good way to test the larger box idea. This sub has a massive basket and motor structure. Not sure what the displacement is on this sub, but am sure it's over 0.1 ft^3.
Tried to look that one up for you, specs in french...???
Swez
kirchatndftbl on 08/12/2007 16:12:22
same problem with the french lol???
i scrolled down farther to page 3 i think and its in english
displacement front mounted is 0.194ft^3
displacement rear is 0.079
T-RAY on 08/12/2007 19:40:20
Alright! Sealed it is then, but you say a little over the specs though? You think making it a solid 1.0ft^3 would b ok?
Also I read in one of the forums about the PDX series having a "glitch".Would this amp be a problem for me cuz I can send it back when I recieve it. Alpine PDX-1.1000 mono? What is the "glitch" if anyone knows?
I was trying to decide on that one and Kicker ZX1500.1, Memphis MCD-1500.1, and Kicker ZX1000.1. Which do you think would be best for the job? Or any amp I did not mention?
Like I said, Im not afraid to spend the money cause Im a firm believer in "You get what you pay for!".
swez on 08/13/2007 01:02:18
The jury is still out on the Alpine PDX series. We too have had some reports of field failures even when done by well qualified installers. We don't have any specifics on which amps in that series are having trouble, but if you want bypass that possibility, the Kicker or Memphis amps mentioned are a good fit. (2 ohms, 1000 watts RMS is your goal)
Do you have a link to that Memphis amps and specs?
Sealed at 1.0 ft^3 is a pretty solid match for this sub. It will get low and still have very good power handling too in a sealed box. This sub just needs power to get it up to ful potential.
Swez
Victor on 08/13/2007 01:31:05
there was another post titled the same.. i had replied to that one.. dunno where its vanished, probably deleted as the titles were identical....
yes... i have seen this sub perform excellent in a 1 cuft and 1.25 cuft sealed enclosure at various occasions.....
with a full 1000wrms going to the sub.. a 1 cuft enclosure will be a wiser choice.... good transients and deep low bass too...
Victor...
personally i have not yet experienced the PDX amps.... some who have used them have applauded their performance and a few have found them failing in course of action... we are yet to know wether those were faulty installations or faulty equipment....
alpine has been known for making solid performing equipments and is a definite reputed brand. But even for a reputed manufacturer sometimes there may be a batch or 2 of faulty equipment.. that shouldnt make us think that all alpine products are bad...
I wud yet not draw a conclusion on the PDX amps until i use them personally...
You can go with the alpine.. but if u are not ready to trust and bend on the reputation of Alpine or dont want to take a risk then there are many many other performing amps which give 1000wrms@2 ohms...
T-RAY on 08/13/2007 20:51:47
Wow!!! Im glad i found this forum page! You guys have seriously been alot of help! Most of the replies straightly adressed my issue and made it easier to draw my conclusion on what I would be doing!
I only have a few more questions...
(1) I've heard for better surge protection for your system, downgrading your main fuse block by half would prevent anything from harming your amp or subs being as it's easier to replace a fuse instead of an amp or sub. Is there any truth in that??
(2) A friend of mine who does the competition scene said upgrading your wiring from say 4 awg to 2 or 0 awg is a good thing to do so you wont have to worry about your amp not getting enough power and shutting down quicker as well as your ground wire. Is there any truth in that??
Once again i would like to thank you guys for the info and suggestions and if I ever have any questions in the future believe me... this will be the first place i come for any type of info Im not sure about!!!
Thanks a whole lot guys!!! You really know your sh#$!!!!
swez on 08/13/2007 21:21:47
Quote:
"(1) I've heard for better surge protection for your system, downgrading your main fuse block by half would prevent anything from harming your amp or subs being as it's easier to replace a fuse instead of an amp or sub. Is there any truth in that??"
Most amps will draw slightly below the amp fuse ratings at full power. (If the amp has 20 x 4A fuse, the max amp draw is more like 75A's) This would mean a min of #4 gage wire for this amp alone. Yes, you can fuse it at 60A's and that is fine. If the amp draws more current than that, the fuse will blow. (About 800 watts continously, it will blow this fuse) Have a spare handy.
If you are using a full range amp, (Or planning one later) along with this PDX1.1000, I would definitely consider #1/0 wire for your main power line and the main fuse will be based on the combined amperage draw of all amps on that line. (In this case, 80A for the PDX + xxA's more for the other amp(s).
A 1/0 gage wire is solid up to about 300A's of continous current draw. If your entire system only draws say 150, it's fine to use a 150A fuse, but no real need for over 200A fuse.
Does that set your mind to rest?
Swez
T-RAY on 08/14/2007 11:13:30
Awesome Swez! I'm even gonna make me a printout of this whole frikn page! Full of everything I need to know and I believe with this and my other knowledge of audio system I could even be a gold star one day!! So thankful for all you've said will send you a money order for your site!!
swez on 08/14/2007 11:43:42
Good, we're here to inform, advise and motivate others to do their best.
One thing you may have to factor in later, is power management issues when setting up a strong system like this. Most stock electrical systems are designed to allow for about 30% more power than the car needs to operate all critical functions. As I look at this system and the potential power draw you may face later, want to float a plan to upgrade your electrical system when there is a need.
If your stock ALTis rated at below 120A's, light dimming issues are likely at high bass levels. Surge Caps are not a solution here, just a bandaid approach to a bone fracture. Here, we have a few options to consider and we can hash out some plans to overcome them when you get to this point. (It will surely come with larger amps)
For now, read up on the "Big 3 Upgrade". This will be step #1.
http://www.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/312025/page/1#Post312025
If that does not eliminate light dimming issues, we move to more expensive steps later. Save your coins as this will be more expensive as you go. How much more $$ is dependent on the level of upgrades needed. We can cross that bridge as you get there.
Swez
T-RAY on 08/14/2007 18:12:25
Well besides the the mono alpine I also will be installing a 4 channel alpine PDX-4.100. I have made plans to ugrade my "required" battery for the car as they would tell you at the parts store, to an 895cca and possibly a second in the trunk of about 600-700cca.
As for the altenator, I belive its only 84/89 amp, will found out after my voyage and when I return home.
And for theft protection, while I'm thinkn about it, do you know any car insurance companies that will ensure any aftermarket instalations cuz I had my last system jacked for like 50 bucks my brother owed some dude for some crack.(two Alpine TypeR's). I knew I shouldnt have let him take that day!! Still makes me mad!! My car got smashed up on the side of the road and my insurance didn't cover vandalism and it wasnt worth the money to fix it so I took my stuff out and like a month later he said he knew someone that wanted to buy. Bein a damn fool I trusted him to take it! I still feel stupid!!
swez on 08/14/2007 19:36:02
Wisdom comes with a big price tag... consider yourself a bit wiser as you have now paid the price of someone elses bill. (There are no family, friends or buddies when dope is concerned... they only care about the next fix) I dropped all my old buddies w/ these addictions for that very reason... "There is no honor or loyalty they won't breach to get a crack fix" !!! MAD
Yes, you will definitely need electrical upgrades with both amps noted. For starters, consider a strong AUX battery to power your sub amp. That is the one that is most likely to give you power problems. The 4 channel can be powered off your starter BAT. If that does not cut it, then your last step is to get a High Output ALT. (150 - 200A version)
Also, in this case, you may need to go one step further and use a Battery Isolator kit. They are easy to install, but not always cheap. We can discuss that when you get there.
Insurance companies will not generally cover aftermarket stereo gear that is not professionally installed and a separate rider policy with a good alarm system. If you have any questions, contact your Ins carrier and get the straight poop up front. They often require invoices, pics and a partridge in a pear tree for stuff like this as theft is such a common thing.
Lastly, DO NOT boom near your home, school or place of work. These are easy places to get jacked for gear. People who know what you have and where they can find your car unattended for a few hours, puts one at risk of theft. That sucks, but it's also reality. Protect your gear by alarm systems and being smart about your listening habits.
Swez
Vandalism is often covered by the Comprehensive part of a policy, minus the deductible. When possible, install the gear so it is not seen, well hidden and almost impossible to remove w/o specialty tools. Even that did not work in one guys case here a while back. His buddy knew all the tricks and trips and when the car was unattended at a school event, (Graduation?) it was gone when he got back to his car. (That really sucks and is hard to prove, even though the obvious culprit was a buddy)
T-RAY on 08/14/2007 21:27:45
Well thankfully I'm not in school anymore... but I am gone for three week periods on a tug boat. That is why I was inquiring about the insurance deal.
As for the special tools... what are some I could use per say? And would the battery sizes I mentioned be adequate?
And again I can't thank you enoguh for the input!
swez on 08/15/2007 06:31:33
The batteries mentioned are good. Use the high CCA rated one for your sub amp as it has the largest storage capacity. A 700 CCA rated BAT is good under the hood unless you have a large diesel engine or HD towing package.
Tools... mounting hardware that is non-standard can help. (Not phillips, slot heads or common bolts) Something like Torx, Allen or square heads will slow some guys down. The guys who "hack and whack" are the hardest ones to stop. They just rip things out with little care for the mess and carnage they leave behind.
Since you work on a boat for several weeks at a time, if you cannot park in a "secured lot", (Gated, patroled and security cameras) consider parking the vehicle at home in a locked garage and just call a buddy to give you a ride or take a cab. A $10.00 cab ride is a whole lot cheaper that a $1,000.00 loss. (Gear & labor)
Swez
PS You're most welcome! Don't forget to make a donation to the site at some point in your adventure OK? CK is a user donation supported site and don't have deep pockted sponsors to help foot the bills. (We don't use annoying popups)
T-RAY on 08/15/2007 08:37:48
Will do, and they have security at the port I usaually come too to catch my boat but they have had breakins even still.
Victor on 08/15/2007 10:12:09
If someones just toooo bent on stealing your equipment... theres no security that can stop 'em............
T-RAY on 08/15/2007 20:54:03
That's why I was inquring about the insurance deal! I know some people have no boundries and limits on stuff they set their mind on doing- my brother! He even, to not get arrested on the numerous warrants he had, gave an officer my name during a traffic stop. This resulted later in my drivers license being revoked and a warrant for a failure to appear! MAD MAD
Fortunately I got it cleared and back on him!GRIN He even got my birthday wrong and they still let him get away!! Can you belive that!?!
Oh! Swez... instead of an alternate battery, would a Kinetic HC 600 be ok?? Was gonna buy one off my cousin and his signal booster!!
swez on 08/16/2007 01:10:12
Yes, I can believe that... but where's the cops brain? Show me your licence, registration and P.O.I. ??? Crack-heads are not to be trusted... PERIOD!!!
I don't know much about the HC600. I did look it up on their web site, but more hype that facts, so I cannot say for certain is this is a wise choice or not. One of our Golds has a HC2400 and says it's plenty strong for his monster bass amp though.
http://www.kinetikaudio.com/powercells.asp
One thing I did note in their FAQ section...
Summary Quote: The Cap Killer "can", (NOT GUARANTEED TO) stop light dimming if the ALT and electrical wiring are working properly, but "will not" keep up with the demand. That's pretty vague in my read... especially at $200.00 retail.
Signal booster? Not tracking on that one T....splain it more OK?
Swez
T-RAY on 08/17/2007 17:23:46
Well, he is given me them both for like $100.00. Figured it was a good deal!! It did work for his system and he has two Kicker L7 12's with a Memphis 1000 mono!! Only reason he's let'n me get em is cause he's sellin his whole system. His s#$@ is really loud though!!
It's a Memphis Line driver 9 volt. Figured it was a good deal bein it's like $80 brand new and its only like a month and a half old! Then the power cell being $200 retail, I figured it was a steal!!!
swez on 08/17/2007 18:57:20
OK ... that seems like a pretty sweet deal for both the LD and Kinetik's power cell. If he used that power cell on his Memphis and it worked out well, chances are good it will be adequate for your system too.
Here, the power cell is probably best dedicated to use on your sub amp only. (Alpine PDX-1.1000) To power your 4 channel, using the primary BAT should do the job.
Line drivers are nice when used with low output HU's. Most amps can easily reach full power at 1.0 volts. It's mostly a gain management tool to add an LD. How many outputs does the LD have?
Things are coming together... CLAP
Swez
T-RAY on 08/18/2007 20:31:00
It only has one, but he said they make a wire that will make it two. This is what he told me so I'm guess'n he was talkin about a splitter!
swez on 08/19/2007 08:20:08
If this is only used for your sub amp, a single pair of RCA's is good enough. You may not even need it with the amps mentioned and trade it for something you may need later.
The PDX-1.1000 has a dual input selector that allows for up to 8.0 volts at the input. (0.1 - 1.0 volts; 1.0 - 8.0 volts)
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-yZ1xpNbeKvR/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&tab=detailed_info&i=500PDX1100#Tab
Swez
T-RAY on 08/19/2007 19:26:14
So my head unit would be sufficient enough (Alpine CDE-9881)?
swez on 08/19/2007 21:26:50
Should be OK here. This HU has 3 pairs of RCA's and 2.0 volts is the line output level and that enough to drive most amps on the market to full potential.
Swez
T-RAY on 08/19/2007 23:30:49
Most awesoms Swez! Can't thank you enough for all the help! I know just who I can sell the LD too!! Then I'll have me a real good deal on the Kinetic power cell!! Thank you thank you for all the input and hopefully my PDX's won't have the glitch I've heard about and I wont have to buy anymore audio eq for a long time to come!!
LONG AS I DON'T RUN INTO MY BROTHER OR HE RUN INTO ME, I shouldn't have any more problems!!
swez on 08/20/2007 09:26:21
T-RAY,
You are most welcome and we are here to help ya through the nitty gritty details too. If you have not already done so, start planning your wiring process and general layouts for your new gear.
Also, it would be a good time to grab up copies of the manuals for your new amps and HU. This will help a lot when planning the install and dialing in the equipment too. If you don't have them, can get them off Crutchfield. (PDF files)
Have you picked out your wiring and hardware parts yet? If not, can help ya put a package together that is budget wise and above average in performance too.
Swez
PS Your brother needs some help. His addiction(s) are costly and a threat to anyone that crosses his path. Getting to the root cause(s) and dealing with them now, could keep him out jail later. Rehab or a men's addiction group could be his best friends right now. If there are any larger Churches in your area, many have free support groups to serve all who desire this help.
If he denies the opportunity at this stage, the local, county or state penile systems will not be so user friendly. They'll take him off the streets, but it won't be pretty either. They play "HARDBALL" and this can derail his life for a long time.
T-RAY on 08/20/2007 20:07:05
That's what I'm hopin for!! Noth'n else will help him... the best thing for him now is to be locked up cuz he's supposed to be there already!!!
As for the wiring, I bought a sondquest kit for it... but the RCA's looked really cheap so I replaced them with a pair of Fosgate RCA's that were 30 bucks for 16 ft and another 6 ft. The really only good thing was the 4awg ground ,power, and a little split-plastic cover harness for the power in the hood . I'll prolly start my main power line with 2 or 1awg. Then get a splitter to run the 4awg from it.
The only question I really have would be: Should I run my RCA's for my 4 channel from my HU or my pre outs on my sub amp? Cause I believe I was reading in the crutchfield hands on that the pre outs were non fading!!
swez on 08/20/2007 23:42:54
Here are some details on the HU:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-m6tJHAmm1vM/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&tab=detailed_info&i=500CDE9881#Tab
The sub outs on the HU have a menu driven bass control if using the sub out feature. If you like that plan, 3 pairs if RCA's are needed from HU to amps. (Recommended, you get a full 2 volts to sub amp)
The 4 channel PDX-4.1 does not have preout jacks for the sub amp. Using "Y" splitter cables from channels 3&4 to feed the sub amp inputs would be an option, but not one I would use.
The Preouts are non-fading only when using ganged inputs on the 4.100. (1/3; 2/4 wiring configuration) If you used separarate RCA's for 1-4 channels off the HU, you get balance and fade. The sub channel is independent and has other features that are useful when running a 3 paired line set.
Swez
PS I hope for the best for your brother, but fear the worst will eventually befall him. The judicial system may be a bit slow to catch up with him, but when they do, it's time to pay a visit to the judge. If bro has a rap sheet now, when it gets long enough, they'll take action. It will likely be swift and harsh.
T-RAY on 08/21/2007 08:00:14
From my current knowledge on his rap, last I looked, was about 9 warrants!!!
swez on 08/21/2007 10:54:38
That's about one good traffic stop/violation and a sharp cop away from getting hauled in. Sad.... very sad situation here.
Swez
Also I bought an Alpine PDX-1.1000 amp to power it and wondering if it will push it if I wanted to crank it up to show it off. Have not recieved amp yet and can send back when recieved. Would like to know which amp would be a good one.
Replies (33)
kirchatndftbl on 08/11/2007 21:26:01
what kind of music do you listen too??? country and rock would be better for a sealed box while rap tends to be better when using a ported box
sealed provides for better punchier bass but can lack in the lower bass notes
while ported tends to provide more spl (louder) and provides better low bass
wire both voice colis parallel to the amp for a net 2 ohm load
http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1dvcparallel1yl.jpg
what kind of car is this goin in???
optimal sealed is .8cuft
optimal proted is 1.8cuft
http://vault.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM_SWX-1243D.PDF
newB on 08/12/2007 04:43:41
sealed vs. ported is very subjective.
i would test samle differnt ported/sealed boxes and make a judgement on response curve and "style" of sound and go from there.
-Drew
swez on 08/12/2007 06:19:12
The Alpine X series is pretty much an SPL sub. If one wants to squeeze every ounce of this low efficiency sub, vented is the choice. (1000 Wrms here) Vented optimal is 1.8 ft^3
If one wants more SQL, go sealed and optimize at 0.9 ft^3.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-raIAl6G9TGp/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&tab=detailed_info&i=500SWX1242#Tab
Swez
T-RAY on 08/12/2007 11:53:18
I guess the real problem with me is that i listen to rock and rap but never country! It puts me to sleep no bull! Like i said im not a competitor or anything, i just like to have bass with my rap and punch with my rock. Temporarily it will be going in an 84 prelude! Yeah i know... i spent more on the system than the actual car but it is only temp.
Guess what im tryin to do is get both from one and wonderin which would be best for the job. and about the amp would that be ample enough to push it hard if I wanted? If you were me what would you do (sealed/ported) and would fiberglass make any diff? I have one more question also... whats the deal with reverse mounting? Thanks for the insight though peeps!
swez on 08/12/2007 14:04:53
Most guys are very happy with sealed boxes for everyday use. You can still get very good lows for RAP by going sealed.
I would consider building a slightly larger box of say 1.1 f^3 sealed. If the bass is too boomy and sloppy, a few blocks of wood can be added internally until it sounds just right for all your music. Adding about 1 lb of poly fil would be fine too.
Inverse mounting the sub is OK and a good way to test the larger box idea. This sub has a massive basket and motor structure. Not sure what the displacement is on this sub, but am sure it's over 0.1 ft^3.
Tried to look that one up for you, specs in french...???
Swez
kirchatndftbl on 08/12/2007 16:12:22
same problem with the french lol???
i scrolled down farther to page 3 i think and its in english
displacement front mounted is 0.194ft^3
displacement rear is 0.079
T-RAY on 08/12/2007 19:40:20
Alright! Sealed it is then, but you say a little over the specs though? You think making it a solid 1.0ft^3 would b ok?
Also I read in one of the forums about the PDX series having a "glitch".Would this amp be a problem for me cuz I can send it back when I recieve it. Alpine PDX-1.1000 mono? What is the "glitch" if anyone knows?
I was trying to decide on that one and Kicker ZX1500.1, Memphis MCD-1500.1, and Kicker ZX1000.1. Which do you think would be best for the job? Or any amp I did not mention?
Like I said, Im not afraid to spend the money cause Im a firm believer in "You get what you pay for!".
swez on 08/13/2007 01:02:18
The jury is still out on the Alpine PDX series. We too have had some reports of field failures even when done by well qualified installers. We don't have any specifics on which amps in that series are having trouble, but if you want bypass that possibility, the Kicker or Memphis amps mentioned are a good fit. (2 ohms, 1000 watts RMS is your goal)
Do you have a link to that Memphis amps and specs?
Sealed at 1.0 ft^3 is a pretty solid match for this sub. It will get low and still have very good power handling too in a sealed box. This sub just needs power to get it up to ful potential.
Swez
Victor on 08/13/2007 01:31:05
there was another post titled the same.. i had replied to that one.. dunno where its vanished, probably deleted as the titles were identical....
yes... i have seen this sub perform excellent in a 1 cuft and 1.25 cuft sealed enclosure at various occasions.....
with a full 1000wrms going to the sub.. a 1 cuft enclosure will be a wiser choice.... good transients and deep low bass too...
Victor...
personally i have not yet experienced the PDX amps.... some who have used them have applauded their performance and a few have found them failing in course of action... we are yet to know wether those were faulty installations or faulty equipment....
alpine has been known for making solid performing equipments and is a definite reputed brand. But even for a reputed manufacturer sometimes there may be a batch or 2 of faulty equipment.. that shouldnt make us think that all alpine products are bad...
I wud yet not draw a conclusion on the PDX amps until i use them personally...
You can go with the alpine.. but if u are not ready to trust and bend on the reputation of Alpine or dont want to take a risk then there are many many other performing amps which give 1000wrms@2 ohms...
T-RAY on 08/13/2007 20:51:47
Wow!!! Im glad i found this forum page! You guys have seriously been alot of help! Most of the replies straightly adressed my issue and made it easier to draw my conclusion on what I would be doing!
I only have a few more questions...
(1) I've heard for better surge protection for your system, downgrading your main fuse block by half would prevent anything from harming your amp or subs being as it's easier to replace a fuse instead of an amp or sub. Is there any truth in that??
(2) A friend of mine who does the competition scene said upgrading your wiring from say 4 awg to 2 or 0 awg is a good thing to do so you wont have to worry about your amp not getting enough power and shutting down quicker as well as your ground wire. Is there any truth in that??
Once again i would like to thank you guys for the info and suggestions and if I ever have any questions in the future believe me... this will be the first place i come for any type of info Im not sure about!!!
Thanks a whole lot guys!!! You really know your sh#$!!!!
swez on 08/13/2007 21:21:47
Quote:
"(1) I've heard for better surge protection for your system, downgrading your main fuse block by half would prevent anything from harming your amp or subs being as it's easier to replace a fuse instead of an amp or sub. Is there any truth in that??"
Most amps will draw slightly below the amp fuse ratings at full power. (If the amp has 20 x 4A fuse, the max amp draw is more like 75A's) This would mean a min of #4 gage wire for this amp alone. Yes, you can fuse it at 60A's and that is fine. If the amp draws more current than that, the fuse will blow. (About 800 watts continously, it will blow this fuse) Have a spare handy.
If you are using a full range amp, (Or planning one later) along with this PDX1.1000, I would definitely consider #1/0 wire for your main power line and the main fuse will be based on the combined amperage draw of all amps on that line. (In this case, 80A for the PDX + xxA's more for the other amp(s).
A 1/0 gage wire is solid up to about 300A's of continous current draw. If your entire system only draws say 150, it's fine to use a 150A fuse, but no real need for over 200A fuse.
Does that set your mind to rest?
Swez
T-RAY on 08/14/2007 11:13:30
Awesome Swez! I'm even gonna make me a printout of this whole frikn page! Full of everything I need to know and I believe with this and my other knowledge of audio system I could even be a gold star one day!! So thankful for all you've said will send you a money order for your site!!
swez on 08/14/2007 11:43:42
Good, we're here to inform, advise and motivate others to do their best.
One thing you may have to factor in later, is power management issues when setting up a strong system like this. Most stock electrical systems are designed to allow for about 30% more power than the car needs to operate all critical functions. As I look at this system and the potential power draw you may face later, want to float a plan to upgrade your electrical system when there is a need.
If your stock ALTis rated at below 120A's, light dimming issues are likely at high bass levels. Surge Caps are not a solution here, just a bandaid approach to a bone fracture. Here, we have a few options to consider and we can hash out some plans to overcome them when you get to this point. (It will surely come with larger amps)
For now, read up on the "Big 3 Upgrade". This will be step #1.
http://www.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/312025/page/1#Post312025
If that does not eliminate light dimming issues, we move to more expensive steps later. Save your coins as this will be more expensive as you go. How much more $$ is dependent on the level of upgrades needed. We can cross that bridge as you get there.
Swez
T-RAY on 08/14/2007 18:12:25
Well besides the the mono alpine I also will be installing a 4 channel alpine PDX-4.100. I have made plans to ugrade my "required" battery for the car as they would tell you at the parts store, to an 895cca and possibly a second in the trunk of about 600-700cca.
As for the altenator, I belive its only 84/89 amp, will found out after my voyage and when I return home.
And for theft protection, while I'm thinkn about it, do you know any car insurance companies that will ensure any aftermarket instalations cuz I had my last system jacked for like 50 bucks my brother owed some dude for some crack.(two Alpine TypeR's). I knew I shouldnt have let him take that day!! Still makes me mad!! My car got smashed up on the side of the road and my insurance didn't cover vandalism and it wasnt worth the money to fix it so I took my stuff out and like a month later he said he knew someone that wanted to buy. Bein a damn fool I trusted him to take it! I still feel stupid!!
swez on 08/14/2007 19:36:02
Wisdom comes with a big price tag... consider yourself a bit wiser as you have now paid the price of someone elses bill. (There are no family, friends or buddies when dope is concerned... they only care about the next fix) I dropped all my old buddies w/ these addictions for that very reason... "There is no honor or loyalty they won't breach to get a crack fix" !!! MAD
Yes, you will definitely need electrical upgrades with both amps noted. For starters, consider a strong AUX battery to power your sub amp. That is the one that is most likely to give you power problems. The 4 channel can be powered off your starter BAT. If that does not cut it, then your last step is to get a High Output ALT. (150 - 200A version)
Also, in this case, you may need to go one step further and use a Battery Isolator kit. They are easy to install, but not always cheap. We can discuss that when you get there.
Insurance companies will not generally cover aftermarket stereo gear that is not professionally installed and a separate rider policy with a good alarm system. If you have any questions, contact your Ins carrier and get the straight poop up front. They often require invoices, pics and a partridge in a pear tree for stuff like this as theft is such a common thing.
Lastly, DO NOT boom near your home, school or place of work. These are easy places to get jacked for gear. People who know what you have and where they can find your car unattended for a few hours, puts one at risk of theft. That sucks, but it's also reality. Protect your gear by alarm systems and being smart about your listening habits.
Swez
Vandalism is often covered by the Comprehensive part of a policy, minus the deductible. When possible, install the gear so it is not seen, well hidden and almost impossible to remove w/o specialty tools. Even that did not work in one guys case here a while back. His buddy knew all the tricks and trips and when the car was unattended at a school event, (Graduation?) it was gone when he got back to his car. (That really sucks and is hard to prove, even though the obvious culprit was a buddy)
T-RAY on 08/14/2007 21:27:45
Well thankfully I'm not in school anymore... but I am gone for three week periods on a tug boat. That is why I was inquiring about the insurance deal.
As for the special tools... what are some I could use per say? And would the battery sizes I mentioned be adequate?
And again I can't thank you enoguh for the input!
swez on 08/15/2007 06:31:33
The batteries mentioned are good. Use the high CCA rated one for your sub amp as it has the largest storage capacity. A 700 CCA rated BAT is good under the hood unless you have a large diesel engine or HD towing package.
Tools... mounting hardware that is non-standard can help. (Not phillips, slot heads or common bolts) Something like Torx, Allen or square heads will slow some guys down. The guys who "hack and whack" are the hardest ones to stop. They just rip things out with little care for the mess and carnage they leave behind.
Since you work on a boat for several weeks at a time, if you cannot park in a "secured lot", (Gated, patroled and security cameras) consider parking the vehicle at home in a locked garage and just call a buddy to give you a ride or take a cab. A $10.00 cab ride is a whole lot cheaper that a $1,000.00 loss. (Gear & labor)
Swez
PS You're most welcome! Don't forget to make a donation to the site at some point in your adventure OK? CK is a user donation supported site and don't have deep pockted sponsors to help foot the bills. (We don't use annoying popups)
T-RAY on 08/15/2007 08:37:48
Will do, and they have security at the port I usaually come too to catch my boat but they have had breakins even still.
Victor on 08/15/2007 10:12:09
If someones just toooo bent on stealing your equipment... theres no security that can stop 'em............
T-RAY on 08/15/2007 20:54:03
That's why I was inquring about the insurance deal! I know some people have no boundries and limits on stuff they set their mind on doing- my brother! He even, to not get arrested on the numerous warrants he had, gave an officer my name during a traffic stop. This resulted later in my drivers license being revoked and a warrant for a failure to appear! MAD MAD
Fortunately I got it cleared and back on him!GRIN He even got my birthday wrong and they still let him get away!! Can you belive that!?!
Oh! Swez... instead of an alternate battery, would a Kinetic HC 600 be ok?? Was gonna buy one off my cousin and his signal booster!!
swez on 08/16/2007 01:10:12
Yes, I can believe that... but where's the cops brain? Show me your licence, registration and P.O.I. ??? Crack-heads are not to be trusted... PERIOD!!!
I don't know much about the HC600. I did look it up on their web site, but more hype that facts, so I cannot say for certain is this is a wise choice or not. One of our Golds has a HC2400 and says it's plenty strong for his monster bass amp though.
http://www.kinetikaudio.com/powercells.asp
One thing I did note in their FAQ section...
Summary Quote: The Cap Killer "can", (NOT GUARANTEED TO) stop light dimming if the ALT and electrical wiring are working properly, but "will not" keep up with the demand. That's pretty vague in my read... especially at $200.00 retail.
Signal booster? Not tracking on that one T....splain it more OK?
Swez
T-RAY on 08/17/2007 17:23:46
Well, he is given me them both for like $100.00. Figured it was a good deal!! It did work for his system and he has two Kicker L7 12's with a Memphis 1000 mono!! Only reason he's let'n me get em is cause he's sellin his whole system. His s#$@ is really loud though!!
It's a Memphis Line driver 9 volt. Figured it was a good deal bein it's like $80 brand new and its only like a month and a half old! Then the power cell being $200 retail, I figured it was a steal!!!
swez on 08/17/2007 18:57:20
OK ... that seems like a pretty sweet deal for both the LD and Kinetik's power cell. If he used that power cell on his Memphis and it worked out well, chances are good it will be adequate for your system too.
Here, the power cell is probably best dedicated to use on your sub amp only. (Alpine PDX-1.1000) To power your 4 channel, using the primary BAT should do the job.
Line drivers are nice when used with low output HU's. Most amps can easily reach full power at 1.0 volts. It's mostly a gain management tool to add an LD. How many outputs does the LD have?
Things are coming together... CLAP
Swez
T-RAY on 08/18/2007 20:31:00
It only has one, but he said they make a wire that will make it two. This is what he told me so I'm guess'n he was talkin about a splitter!
swez on 08/19/2007 08:20:08
If this is only used for your sub amp, a single pair of RCA's is good enough. You may not even need it with the amps mentioned and trade it for something you may need later.
The PDX-1.1000 has a dual input selector that allows for up to 8.0 volts at the input. (0.1 - 1.0 volts; 1.0 - 8.0 volts)
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-yZ1xpNbeKvR/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&tab=detailed_info&i=500PDX1100#Tab
Swez
T-RAY on 08/19/2007 19:26:14
So my head unit would be sufficient enough (Alpine CDE-9881)?
swez on 08/19/2007 21:26:50
Should be OK here. This HU has 3 pairs of RCA's and 2.0 volts is the line output level and that enough to drive most amps on the market to full potential.
Swez
T-RAY on 08/19/2007 23:30:49
Most awesoms Swez! Can't thank you enough for all the help! I know just who I can sell the LD too!! Then I'll have me a real good deal on the Kinetic power cell!! Thank you thank you for all the input and hopefully my PDX's won't have the glitch I've heard about and I wont have to buy anymore audio eq for a long time to come!!
LONG AS I DON'T RUN INTO MY BROTHER OR HE RUN INTO ME, I shouldn't have any more problems!!
swez on 08/20/2007 09:26:21
T-RAY,
You are most welcome and we are here to help ya through the nitty gritty details too. If you have not already done so, start planning your wiring process and general layouts for your new gear.
Also, it would be a good time to grab up copies of the manuals for your new amps and HU. This will help a lot when planning the install and dialing in the equipment too. If you don't have them, can get them off Crutchfield. (PDF files)
Have you picked out your wiring and hardware parts yet? If not, can help ya put a package together that is budget wise and above average in performance too.
Swez
PS Your brother needs some help. His addiction(s) are costly and a threat to anyone that crosses his path. Getting to the root cause(s) and dealing with them now, could keep him out jail later. Rehab or a men's addiction group could be his best friends right now. If there are any larger Churches in your area, many have free support groups to serve all who desire this help.
If he denies the opportunity at this stage, the local, county or state penile systems will not be so user friendly. They'll take him off the streets, but it won't be pretty either. They play "HARDBALL" and this can derail his life for a long time.
T-RAY on 08/20/2007 20:07:05
That's what I'm hopin for!! Noth'n else will help him... the best thing for him now is to be locked up cuz he's supposed to be there already!!!
As for the wiring, I bought a sondquest kit for it... but the RCA's looked really cheap so I replaced them with a pair of Fosgate RCA's that were 30 bucks for 16 ft and another 6 ft. The really only good thing was the 4awg ground ,power, and a little split-plastic cover harness for the power in the hood . I'll prolly start my main power line with 2 or 1awg. Then get a splitter to run the 4awg from it.
The only question I really have would be: Should I run my RCA's for my 4 channel from my HU or my pre outs on my sub amp? Cause I believe I was reading in the crutchfield hands on that the pre outs were non fading!!
swez on 08/20/2007 23:42:54
Here are some details on the HU:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-m6tJHAmm1vM/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&tab=detailed_info&i=500CDE9881#Tab
The sub outs on the HU have a menu driven bass control if using the sub out feature. If you like that plan, 3 pairs if RCA's are needed from HU to amps. (Recommended, you get a full 2 volts to sub amp)
The 4 channel PDX-4.1 does not have preout jacks for the sub amp. Using "Y" splitter cables from channels 3&4 to feed the sub amp inputs would be an option, but not one I would use.
The Preouts are non-fading only when using ganged inputs on the 4.100. (1/3; 2/4 wiring configuration) If you used separarate RCA's for 1-4 channels off the HU, you get balance and fade. The sub channel is independent and has other features that are useful when running a 3 paired line set.
Swez
PS I hope for the best for your brother, but fear the worst will eventually befall him. The judicial system may be a bit slow to catch up with him, but when they do, it's time to pay a visit to the judge. If bro has a rap sheet now, when it gets long enough, they'll take action. It will likely be swift and harsh.
T-RAY on 08/21/2007 08:00:14
From my current knowledge on his rap, last I looked, was about 9 warrants!!!
swez on 08/21/2007 10:54:38
That's about one good traffic stop/violation and a sharp cop away from getting hauled in. Sad.... very sad situation here.
Swez
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
